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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2018 6:11:07 GMT
Merrill: Help with the ancient elf stuff So I just had a crazy thought...what if in addition to Stenishok being an (fleshed-out and complex) antagonist, we get Merrill helping the Egg? She does love her some Eluvian shenanigans and ooooooooh, lots of drama. As an aside she also had a thing for the Dread Wolf often yelling his name out in battle (May the Dread Wolf take you) and seemed to be quite familiar with his lore. Hell if it wasn't for that plus the events of the book "The Masked Empire" I don't think the revelation at the end of DA I would've had as much weight. Instead of an "OMFG what?!" it wouldv'e been "Who?...oh right that guy." Plus it led to myself being a fan of Fen'Harel's too which makes the whole thing that much more juicy in the end.
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Post by TheEmptyRoad on Dec 3, 2018 6:15:21 GMT
So I just had a crazy thought...what if in addition to Stenishok being an (fleshed-out and complex) antagonist, we get Merrill helping the Egg? She does love her some Eluvian shenanigans and ooooooooh, lots of drama. I don’t see why she would help Solas. Ignoring the fact he is literally the devil of her religion, Varric no doubt warned her about everything that was going on. Hmm, true. Though this is the same woman who disregarded her Mentor and clan when they told her not to mess with an ancient mirror, and when you confront her about how what she's doing is dangerous you see an almost completely different person. She comes across then as arrogant and, dare I say prideful, even going so far as to say something to the effect of 'you're just a shemlen, you don't understand'. Not to say she can't or won't change or grow as a person, but after she learns about the real story of the 'Dread Wolf'...I don't know man.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2018 6:19:06 GMT
So I just had a crazy thought...what if in addition to Stenishok being an (fleshed-out and complex) antagonist, we get Merrill helping the Egg? She does love her some Eluvian shenanigans and ooooooooh, lots of drama. As an aside she also had a thing for the Dread Wolf often yelling his name out in battle (May the Dread Wolf take you) and seemed to be quite familiar with his lore. Hell if it wasn't for that plus the events of the book "The Masked Empire" I don't think the revelation at the end of DA I would've had as much weight. Instead of an "OMFG what?!" it wouldv'e been "Who?...oh right that guy." Plus it led to myself being a fan of Fen'Harel's too which makes the whole thing that much more juicy in the end. Of course she is familiar with the lore of the Dread Wolf. She was a First being trained to be a Keeper, and as she states "Guarding a clan from the Dread Wolf is a Keeper's place". She also tells multiple stories warning against the Dread Wolf. As for her yelling his name in battle, that is a curse. It's like someone who is Christian saying "The Devil take you". I don’t see why she would help Solas. Ignoring the fact he is literally the devil of her religion, Varric no doubt warned her about everything that was going on. Hmm, true. Though this is the same woman who disregarded her Mentor and clan when they told her not to mess with an ancient mirror, and when you confront her about how what she's doing is dangerous you see an almost completely different person. She comes across then as arrogant and, dare I say prideful, even going so far as to say something to the effect of 'you're just a shemlen, you don't understand'. Not to say she can't or won't change or grow as a person, but after she learns about the real story of the 'Dread Wolf'...I don't know man. Perhaps, though even she didn't disregard the warnings she was taught about the Dread Wolf. As for the real story, I assume you are referring to what Solas tells us? Why should we trust that he gave us the truth? It's not like he has a good track record with it, he is known as a trickster god for a reason. Not saying that I think everything we learned from him in Trespasser was wrong, but I can see how it the truth was skewed with perspective and time for him as it was for everyone else. Now Velanna on the other hand is definitely a former Dalish First female mage companion whom I can see supporting Solas.
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Post by isaidlunch on Dec 3, 2018 7:06:02 GMT
It's hard to care about faction conflict in the series when it spends more time on mustache-twirling villains than the actual conflict. Corypheus' goon squad ruined every subplot they touched.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2018 7:27:09 GMT
It's hard to care about faction conflict in the series when it spends more time on mustache-twirling villains than the actual conflict. Corypheus' goon squad ruined every subplot they touched. I can agree with the mustache twirling part, after all if you feel the game had poorly written baddies that's a valid opinion. However they should focus on the invididual leaders of the factions and flesh them out if we are to have any hope of caring about the factions. After all the Arishock was a great villain which I did not want to fight and he added a lot of character to the Qunari in DA 2. Hell Inquisition's problem could just as easily be described as them not spending enough time in fleshing Cory out, there was a lot of potential there...wasted.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 3, 2018 8:21:52 GMT
Merrill might be tempted by Solas's pitch ... right up until she found out that 1) he was the Dread Wolf and 2) he wants to either kill or somehow remove/rewind from reality everyone in Thedas. Including, but not limited too: Varric, Aveline, Isabela, Bethany or Caver if they're still alive, a Hawke she may be in love with and all the Dalish elves. And all the baby griffins. (I mean, Merrill probably does not know that there are still baby griffins out there, but if she did she would want to save them from Solas.)
If she knew that restoring elven glory would involve destroying everything she loves in the current world including all the modern elves, then I doubt she'd go along with it. I suspect that Solas is not explaining the details of his 'make elves great again' plan to a lot of his agents.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 3, 2018 9:47:36 GMT
If she knew that restoring elven glory would involve destroying everything she loves in the current world including all the modern elves, then I doubt she'd go along with it. I suspect that Solas is not explaining the details of his 'make elves great again' plan to a lot of his agents. This is what made me feel Merrill would reject his plan if she knew the full extent of it but how many of his followers actually know? Then again, how many of his agents are actually modern elves? Are they like Felassan, ancient elves passing themselves off as modern elves? Surely he wasn't the only one to have survived down to the present. Presumably Fen'Harel had a band of followers from the old days who were advised via their dreams to put themselves into uthenera until such time as they were needed. Then they were instructed to wake up and integrate themselves into the modern community at the right time. In Felassan's case this was at least 20 years prior to Solas awakening. Would Solas really have entrusted modern elves with the task of leading the Venatori to his orb? This is why I am still unclear if the elves disappearing from their positions across the south were elves recruited in the modern era or ancient elves who had been passing themselves off in the regular community in order to further his purposes there. After all we know he approached the Dalish himself at some point but they didn't have time for his wisdom and chased him away. Felassan only got away with it because he didn't contradict their view of the gods and Fen'Harel and his stories reinforced the idea of him as a trickster of somewhat dubious morals.
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Post by Solas on Dec 3, 2018 18:23:58 GMT
hypothetically, Qunari vs Tevinter is a choice I'd be really interested in having to make, whatever form it took, because its a hard choice. stuff like mages v templars was earthshattering, dramatic, emotive etc and enjoyable to play but the choice itself was a complete nobrainer because no matter how hard BW try to make it gray (& I do appreciate the efforts, there are great storytelling and RP opportunities layered in it) there's no way that the rampant abuse of power by templars and systematic oppression of mages is conscionable. like, at all. Qunari vs Tevinter though... I would not know who to support. they're both just as horrendously terrible as each other but SOMEHOW ALSO both not (see posts earlier in this thread where people talked about the nations as a whole and all the normal civilians). I also don't have a personal stake in the conflict atm, not like my Dalish Warden in Dalish vs werewolves or Mage Hawke in mages v templars etcetc (vehicles for my pre-existing proDalish and promage biases. rn I'm neither proQunari nor proTevinter). erm I hope that makes sense.
obviously this is just me speakin for me tho, everyone else has different and varied feelings and opinions.
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Post by phoray on Dec 3, 2018 18:53:23 GMT
Obviously this is just me speakin for me tho, everyone else has different and varied feelings and opinions I feel like there was a thread about Tevinter Vs the Qunari and the Tevinter won out for me easily. Tevinter may enslave your body but you still have your mind.
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Post by Lazarillo on Dec 4, 2018 2:04:19 GMT
I don’t see why she would help Solas. Ignoring the fact he is literally the devil of her religion, Varric no doubt warned her about everything that was going on. Depending on which path Hawke takes with her, "restoring Elven glory is worth the consequences" ends up being the lesson she takes from the whole affair. If she was Friend-ed, rather than Rival-ed, it seems like the only reason she'd not ally with Fen'Harel is if she assumed that, being a "trickster", he was lying about his goals.
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Post by Lazarillo on Dec 4, 2018 2:06:17 GMT
Tevinter may enslave your body but you still have your mind.I'm not so sure about that. Blood Magic's a hell of a drug.
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Post by phoray on Dec 4, 2018 2:54:28 GMT
Tevinter may enslave your body but you still have your mind.I'm not so sure about that. Blood Magic's a hell of a drug. Tevinter mages only sometimes use blood magic, it is not a daily thing. The Qun is the active blanket application of controlling as much about your life and culture as possible so they can control your very thoughts by association. If you break out, your options are brain washing meant to be permanent or Qamek. And if they Qamek you, it's permanent in a way that erases the person you were. Blood Magic Mind Control, the original person is still present or taking over politicians wouldn't work very well. Because the Zombie mumbling words would be pretty obvious. So they're still doing everything they like except the literally one thing they wouldn't usually do.
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Post by Beerfish on Dec 4, 2018 5:34:35 GMT
I hope to heavens they find a way to surprise me in the game because i envision the whole Solas is going to be bad guy but e reform him to be good guy thing. I really hate snooty pants Solas.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 5, 2018 2:04:09 GMT
I can't see ANY modern Thedas elves knowingly going along with a plan to bring back the ancient tyrants who enslaved them. Frankly, I'm astonished that any Ancient elves would be down for it. What exactly do they imagine will be different this time?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 5, 2018 3:57:20 GMT
Although, now I think about it, it made no earthly sense for anyone to side with Corypheus either.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 5, 2018 13:15:22 GMT
I don’t see why she would help Solas. Ignoring the fact he is literally the devil of her religion, Varric no doubt warned her about everything that was going on. Hmm, true. Though this is the same woman who disregarded her Mentor and clan when they told her not to mess with an ancient mirror, and when you confront her about how what she's doing is dangerous you see an almost completely different person. She comes across then as arrogant and, dare I say prideful, even going so far as to say something to the effect of 'you're just a shemlen, you don't understand'. Not to say she can't or won't change or grow as a person, but after she learns about the real story of the 'Dread Wolf'...I don't know man. The mirror wasn't dangerous. Merrill cleansed it from the taint. But yeah, she can be incredibly arrogant. I hate that party banter where Aveline politely asks, without making any accusations, if the eluvian is dangerous. Merrill's response? Relentless sarcasm: "Oh, only if you stand under it".
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Post by jrpN7 on Dec 7, 2018 8:05:05 GMT
Isn't Tevinter vs the Qunari merely a petty distraction that plays out while the real threat, Solas and him ending the world, occurs? I don't see how supporting or opposing either Tevinter or the Qunari will matter unless we're supposed to somehow unite them to help you bring down Solas if he's unwilling to not be a jerk.
If the whole world is at stake, then I'd imagine DA4 will go beyond the borders of war-torn Tevinter. I personally would like to see the Free Marches, Antiva, Rivain and Nevarra and their roles in stopping Solas in addition to Orlais and Ferelden.
Honestly, this sounds like Mass Effect 3. Unite all the peeps, fix their squabbles so they can work together and stop the bigger threat.
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Post by Lazarillo on Dec 7, 2018 20:32:36 GMT
Isn't Tevinter vs the Qunari merely a petty distraction that plays out while the real threat, Solas and him ending the world, occurs? Isn't Mages vs Templars merely a petty distraction that plays out while the real threat, the Elder one and him ending the world, occurs? How boring.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 30, 2019 13:49:39 GMT
hypothetically, Qunari vs Tevinter is a choice I'd be really interested in having to make, whatever form it took, because its a hard choice. stuff like mages v templars was earthshattering, dramatic, emotive etc and enjoyable to play but the choice itself was a complete nobrainer because no matter how hard BW try to make it gray (& I do appreciate the efforts, there are great storytelling and RP opportunities layered in it) there's no way that the rampant abuse of power by templars and systematic oppression of mages is conscionable. like, at all. Qunari vs Tevinter though... I would not know who to support. they're both just as horrendously terrible as each other but SOMEHOW ALSO both not (see posts earlier in this thread where people talked about the nations as a whole and all the normal civilians). I also don't have a personal stake in the conflict atm, not like my Dalish Warden in Dalish vs werewolves or Mage Hawke in mages v templars etcetc (vehicles for my pre-existing proDalish and promage biases. rn I'm neither proQunari nor proTevinter). erm I hope that makes sense. obviously this is just me speakin for me tho, everyone else has different and varied feelings and opinions.
Imagine, for a moment, if DA4 is the story of the Qunari vs humans or back in time even from before they became known as the Qunari... when they were forced out of their original homeland. A complete break from current canon. Freedom to create knew Lore. Battles when they landed in human/elf territory.
A wonderful opportunity with new characters, story, old weapons, forgotten magic.. etc.
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