dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 6, 2019 23:36:22 GMT
Agreed, but it also needs a credible threat. It's hard to top the Reapers. Even if you do, it makes the Reaper War seem like NBD. I think MEA was sort of the right answer but it was a bit too light and didn't show the kett as a true threat. The interesting question is why the kett didn't feel threatening. "Feel" because, objectively, they are threatening. Militarily, they're obviously a threat; the angara haven't been able to beat them, and the AI doesn't add much military power to that. And the threat to use Meridian against both the angara and the AI is credible. I disagree. Say there's 10,000 people who went to Andromeda. Then assume at least half are in cryo at the time of MEA. That's 5,000. They took on an arm of an interstellar empire. The kett are not a credible threat.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 7, 2019 19:43:01 GMT
The size of the AI is a matter of record. How come you're confused about it?
It's also not clear how someone knows the kett will be beaten before they actually are beaten. Metagaming, sure, but besides that? Ryder doesn't discover that the Remnant can be turned against the kett until very late.
Also, "an arm of an interstellar empire" is vague blather. Defeating an arm of the US government at the Little Bighorn didn't mean that the Sioux had any prospect of winning the war. The kett have lost nothing of consequence at the end of ME:A.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 22:25:01 GMT
Agreed, but it also needs a credible threat. It's hard to top the Reapers. Even if you do, it makes the Reaper War seem like NBD. I think MEA was sort of the right answer but it was a bit too light and didn't show the kett as a true threat. The interesting question is why the kett didn't feel threatening. "Feel" because, objectively, they are threatening. Militarily, they're obviously a threat; the angara haven't been able to beat them, and the AI doesn't add much military power to that. And the threat to use Meridian against both the angara and the AI is credible. I'd argue its a culmination of narrative errors that hamper the development of the Kett's as effective villians. An example would be at the end of Cora's loyalty mission where a Kett cruiser gets destroyed as a result of infantry Biotics, in moments like these strain the player's willing suspesion of disbelief because and we're forced to rationalize how such a feat is accomplished: are Biotics really that strong? or are Kett spaceships really that weak? Another Example is when the Archon commandeers the Hyperion but doesn't destroy the Nexus even though he should have easily been able to do so, we know the Kett have got a good-sized fleet and the Nexus is pretty much defensesless against space attacks. Again the player is being forced to rationalize such an unlikely course of events. All this leans heavily in the gameplay and story segregation, Ryder kills countless of Kett mooks, raids dozens of Kett outposts and even manages to destroy some high priority Kett targets and personel. There is a point when it is no longer believable for a villain to boast about their superiority when a team of three repeatedly manages to inflict so much destruction and get away with it. The original trilogy somewhat managed to avoid this by having Shepard for the most part fight proxies rather than the Reapers themselves, even in Mass Effect 3 Shepard's mostly fighting husk varieties, which are explicitly made clear to me disposable pawns. Personally I would have prefered an Andromeda in which Akksul and the Roekaar where the primary antoganists. The Kett meanwhile lurk in shadows and are not intent on getting bogged down in a surface war with inferior cultures, instead they prefer 'grander' solutions such as orbital bombardment, weaponized weather, biological warfare.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 7, 2019 22:59:42 GMT
The interesting question is why the kett didn't feel threatening. "Feel" because, objectively, they are threatening. Militarily, they're obviously a threat; the angara haven't been able to beat them, and the AI doesn't add much military power to that. And the threat to use Meridian against both the angara and the AI is credible. I'd argue its a culmination of narrative errors that hamper the development of the Kett's as effective villians. An example would be at the end of Cora's loyalty mission where a Kett cruiser gets destroyed as a result of infantry Biotics, in moments like these strain the player's willing suspesion of disbelief because and we're forced to rationalize how such a feat is accomplished: are Biotics really that strong? or are Kett spaceships really that weak? Another Example is when the Archon commandeers the Hyperion but doesn't destroy the Nexus even though he should have easily been able to do so, we know the Kett have got a good-sized fleet and the Nexus is pretty much defensesless against space attacks. Again the player is being forced to rationalize such an unlikely course of events. All this leans heavily in the gameplay and story segregation, Ryder kills countless of Kett mooks, raids dozens of Kett outposts and even manages to destroy some high priority Kett targets and personel. There is a point when it is no longer believable for a villain to boast about their superiority when a team of three repeatedly manages to inflict so much destruction and get away with it. The original trilogy somewhat managed to avoid this by having Shepard for the most part fight proxies rather than the Reapers themselves, even in Mass Effect 3 Shepard's mostly fighting husk varieties, which are explicitly made clear to me disposable pawns. Personally I would have prefered an Andromeda in which Akksul and the Roekaar where the primary antoganists. The Kett meanwhile lurk in shadows and are not intent on getting bogged down in a surface war with inferior cultures, instead they prefer 'grander' solutions such as orbital bombardment, weaponized weather, biological warfare. I rather like the idea of a faction of Angara being the on-our-level antagonists with the Kett at more of a distance until the major plot strokes come around. It would've served the whole invading colonists thing pretty well. As for the team of 3 thing, that's always been a bit of a problem for Mass Effect. We killed so many geth and reaper monsters......with less than a handful of people.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 9, 2019 23:13:00 GMT
That's lampshaded in Grunt's RM, isn't it?
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Post by griffith82 on Feb 18, 2019 21:14:28 GMT
The interesting question is why the kett didn't feel threatening. "Feel" because, objectively, they are threatening. Militarily, they're obviously a threat; the angara haven't been able to beat them, and the AI doesn't add much military power to that. And the threat to use Meridian against both the angara and the AI is credible. I disagree. Say there's 10,000 people who went to Andromeda. Then assume at least half are in cryo at the time of MEA. That's 5,000. They took on an arm of an interstellar empire. The kett are not a credible threat. They defeated a small fraction of the main Kett force. They are definitely credible.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 18, 2019 23:31:16 GMT
I disagree. Say there's 10,000 people who went to Andromeda. Then assume at least half are in cryo at the time of MEA. That's 5,000. They took on an arm of an interstellar empire. The kett are not a credible threat. They defeated a small fraction of the main Kett force. They are definitely credible. We don't really know the extent of the empire. Could be humongous but maybe not. Even if they are vast, that would come with it majorly advanced tech. Yet, Earth tech essentially brought them down.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 18, 2019 23:52:35 GMT
They defeated a small fraction of the main Kett force. They are definitely credible. We don't really know the extent of the empire. Could be humongous but maybe not. Even if they are vast, that would come with it majorly advanced tech. Yet, Earth tech essentially brought them down. Well, the Remnant drone fleet and the Scourge they attracted helped. Then the infighting with Primus and her forces not helping the Archon after a certain point.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 19, 2019 0:36:35 GMT
We don't really know the extent of the empire. Could be humongous but maybe not. Even if they are vast, that would come with it majorly advanced tech. Yet, Earth tech essentially brought them down. Well, the Remnant drone fleet and the Scourge they attracted helped. Then the infighting with Primus and her forces not helping the Archon after a certain point. Just remember, I'm a fan of MEA. I'm just trying to consider if there's a "behind the curtains" enemy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 19, 2019 0:45:07 GMT
Well, the Remnant drone fleet and the Scourge they attracted helped. Then the infighting with Primus and her forces not helping the Archon after a certain point. Just remember, I'm a fan of MEA. I'm just trying to consider if there's a "behind the curtains" enemy. I know. I was just saying there was more than just us that led to the Kett defeat in MEA. And I agree there is probably a behind the curtain enemy, even theorizing a few possibilities.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 19, 2019 18:05:14 GMT
They defeated a small fraction of the main Kett force. They are definitely credible. We don't really know the extent of the empire. Could be humongous but maybe not. Even if they are vast, that would come with it majorly advanced tech. Yet, Earth tech essentially brought them down. Well, from the looks of it, numbers and a well-established infrastructure would probably be their greatest strength. They do have some goodies like those immobilizing fields and such, but without something like the reapers to catalyze their technological development, it wouldn't be surprising that the MW aliens can keep up with them despite not having a huge military presence. Heck, the Angarans seem to be using nothing but shuttles to ferry between points and they managed to fight the kett for decades.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 19, 2019 20:19:29 GMT
If the angarans ever had big ships, they don't anymore. Note that the angarans perceive the Tempest as a big ship when it first lands on Aya. Relative to what they're currently flying, it is, but it's tiny by MW standards.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 19, 2019 20:20:04 GMT
We don't really know the extent of the empire. Could be humongous but maybe not. Even if they are vast, that would come with it majorly advanced tech. Yet, Earth tech essentially brought them down. Well, from the looks of it, numbers and a well-established infrastructure would probably be their greatest strength. They do have some goodies like those immobilizing fields and such, but without something like the reapers to catalyze their technological development, it wouldn't be surprising that the MW aliens can keep up with them despite not having a huge military presence. Heck, the Angarans seem to be using nothing but shuttles to ferry between points and they managed to fight the kett for decades. I think it comes back to humanity being special. It was human tech - SAM - that made all the difference. SAM was required to activate the vaults and even to take control of Meridian. The kett were unprepared for anyone to do what even they couldn't.
As for the Angarans, it all comes down to the Scourge. Still, defending oneself and defeating the enemy are very different things.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 13, 2019 22:57:32 GMT
Shepard heads to darkspace. There they find a large space station. In the center, is where he/she gets all the information needed to deal with the reapers. It turns out Harbinger is the key to stopping the harvest. I love this.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 13, 2019 23:01:45 GMT
I would want jack to get her fair share of time. It was incredible to see how she grew with shep. As well as more miranda. Sorry but I get why we couldn't see thane too much since we find out when we first meet him that he is dying but miranda and jack could have been team mates instead of edi getting a body and james coming in
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 13, 2019 23:52:17 GMT
I would want jack to get her fair share of time. It was incredible to see how she grew with shep. As well as more miranda. Sorry but I get why we couldn't see thane too much since we find out when we first meet him that he is dying but miranda and jack could have been team mates instead of edi getting a body and james coming in They couldn't serve as replacements for James and EDI for a few reasons. For example, James, EDI, and LIara filled the pure soldier, pure tech, and pure biotics role so all players could have the three groups depending on who they play as. It's why in Dragon Age we tend to get a Warrior, Rogue, and Mage companion at the start so no matter what class the player is playing, they aren't missing out on things.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 14, 2019 5:36:53 GMT
I would want jack to get her fair share of time. It was incredible to see how she grew with shep. As well as more miranda. Sorry but I get why we couldn't see thane too much since we find out when we first meet him that he is dying but miranda and jack could have been team mates instead of edi getting a body and james coming in They couldn't serve as replacements for James and EDI for a few reasons. For example, James, EDI, and LIara filled the pure soldier, pure tech, and pure biotics role so all players could have the three groups depending on who they play as. It's why in Dragon Age we tend to get a Warrior, Rogue, and Mage companion at the start so no matter what class the player is playing, they aren't missing out on things. It's also because anyone in ME2 could have died on the SM. Liara was always stupidly untouchable, at least up until the beam run. James is new and EDI is essentially new.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 14, 2019 5:41:03 GMT
They couldn't serve as replacements for James and EDI for a few reasons. For example, James, EDI, and LIara filled the pure soldier, pure tech, and pure biotics role so all players could have the three groups depending on who they play as. It's why in Dragon Age we tend to get a Warrior, Rogue, and Mage companion at the start so no matter what class the player is playing, they aren't missing out on things. It's also because anyone in ME2 could have died on the SM. Liara was always stupidly untouchable, at least up until the beam run. James is new and EDI is essentially new. That too. And James served as a Way new players could get caught up. As I said, there are a few reasons.
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