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Post by secretrare on Oct 15, 2016 19:22:07 GMT
and yet somehow an old woman was able to kick the Orb out of his hand. And a human was able to slice Lord Sauron's hand so that he lost the One Ring. What's your point? That Corypheus should know how to juggle? My point is that the premise of this story don't make sense,a person which is paralyzed by several mages can't move.
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Post by Cantina on Oct 15, 2016 19:45:26 GMT
It was never explained why the riunification of his soul caused the lost of his ability,it strike me just as a random rule the writers put there to kill Corypheus in what was a very rushed ending.In my mind the temple of Mythal did not pertained this game at all and because of it the whole writing of the ending was nonsense. I think Gaider forced what was a plot of DA2(deleted by EA) into DAI and as a result of it the writing on Corypheus felt forced as it was forced his death. OK you kill his dragon and his soul return to be to it's original state,the consequence should be the exact situation of Legacy,not Corypheus being unable to use his ability,on top of that the well of sorrow was useless because the Inq sente him with his soul into the fade directly with the anchor,so even if he was still immortal he would have not survived to that. Also how the ancient whispers of the well knew about what Cory did to his dragon?How they knew that a mage named Corypheus created a dragon with his soul if those elves died when Corypheus wasn't even born? I wondered that myself.
Furthermore I saw no point in Cory even needing to be in the Arbor Wilds if he could just use the orb to open the Breech - again.
IMO: Using a villain from a DLC then moving them over to be the main villain in the next game was a piss poor choice. I felt the main story seemed (as you do) forced. Full of plot holes and not much continuity.
Oh and someone said "Cory is powerful." Well in the final battle he was pretty sad compared to how he was in DA2 Legacy. In Legacy I was like, "Shit, Shit, Shit!" In DAI fighting him I was like, "Uh..that tickles.....I guess!?!"
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Post by secretrare on Oct 15, 2016 20:29:08 GMT
It was never explained why the riunification of his soul caused the lost of his ability,it strike me just as a random rule the writers put there to kill Corypheus in what was a very rushed ending.In my mind the temple of Mythal did not pertained this game at all and because of it the whole writing of the ending was nonsense. I think Gaider forced what was a plot of DA2(deleted by EA) into DAI and as a result of it the writing on Corypheus felt forced as it was forced his death. OK you kill his dragon and his soul return to be to it's original state,the consequence should be the exact situation of Legacy,not Corypheus being unable to use his ability,on top of that the well of sorrow was useless because the Inq sente him with his soul into the fade directly with the anchor,so even if he was still immortal he would have not survived to that. Also how the ancient whispers of the well knew about what Cory did to his dragon?How they knew that a mage named Corypheus created a dragon with his soul if those elves died when Corypheus wasn't even born? I wondered that myself.
Furthermore I saw no point in Cory even needing to be in the Arbor Wilds if he could just use the orb to open the Breech - again.
IMO: Using a villain from a DLC then moving them over to be the main villain in the next game was a piss poor choice. I felt the main story seemed (as you do) forced. Full of plot holes and not much continuity.
Oh and someone said "Cory is powerful." Well in the final battle he was pretty sad compared to how he was in DA2 Legacy. In Legacy I was like, "Shit, Shit, Shit!" In DAI fighting him I was like, "Uh..that tickles.....I guess!?!"
Corypheus had his potential as a character and as a villain but it was all wasted. He went into the Arbor wilds because Gaider wanted to introduce at any cost(even if the quest did not made sense anymore because was a project of DA2 the exalted march DLC and not of DAI)the Morrigan&Flemeth subplot of the temple Mythal in DAI and somehow link it to Cory but everything was forced. How Corypheus knew about this well of sorrow in the first place,who told him?Why he wanted it if he already had the Orb and had to simply wait for the breach and the demons to destroy the Inquisition to try to kidnap the Inquisitor again. In short i think that Gaider was never really good at creating main quests and side quests because he disrupt coerence by creating plot holes everytime he force the plot along the path he wanted despite such path being inchoerent.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 15, 2016 20:39:07 GMT
The majority of the points raised by Cantina seem to me all plot holes that sadly show the low level quality of the writing when it comes to the overall premise of this story(not of the characters).
What i have never understood is why Cory did not tried to gain the anchor back. This is a blood mage who know how to control people's mind why he did not simply brainwashed the Inquisitor with mind control magic?Or use the same kind of spell he did to Calpernia\Samson to control their body?he had many way to regain the anchor.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 15, 2016 20:59:44 GMT
And a human was able to slice Lord Sauron's hand so that he lost the One Ring. What's your point? That Corypheus should know how to juggle? My point is that the premise of this story don't make sense,a person which is paralyzed by several mages can't move. Corypheus and the mages were distracted by the Herald's entrance. They let their hold on the Divine weaken for a moment.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 15, 2016 21:05:55 GMT
Also how the ancient whispers of the well knew about what Cory did to his dragon?How they knew that a mage named Corypheus created a dragon with his soul if those elves died when Corypheus wasn't even born? I wondered that myself.
Furthermore I saw no point in Cory even needing to be in the Arbor Wilds if he could just use the orb to open the Breech - again.
The wisdom of the Well merely lets the Inquisitor/Morrigan understand the nature of the magic Corypheus is using and how best to disrupt it. Doesn't matter that Corypheus didn't exist in their time; they have the insight of dozens of high-powered ancient mages at their command. Also, I cannot emphasize this enough: Corypheus CANNOT enter the Fade through the Breach. Not without the Anchor. The only reason he opens the Breach at the end is because he's lost and wants to draw the Inquisitor into a confrontation.
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Post by Cantina on Oct 16, 2016 0:39:00 GMT
I wondered that myself.
Furthermore I saw no point in Cory even needing to be in the Arbor Wilds if he could just use the orb to open the Breech - again.
The wisdom of the Well merely lets the Inquisitor/Morrigan understand the nature of the magic Corypheus is using and how best to disrupt it. Doesn't matter that Corypheus didn't exist in their time; they have the insight of dozens of high-powered ancient mages at their command. Also, I cannot emphasize this enough: Corypheus CANNOT enter the Fade through the Breach. Not without the Anchor. The only reason he opens the Breach at the end is because he's lost and wants to draw the Inquisitor into a confrontation. He could have easily accomplished such confrontation at any point after Haven.
So what? After Haven Cory just sits around knitting and letting The Inquisition pick off his army one by one? Then all of a sudden Cory snaps out of his stupor and goes, "Well Shit! Minus well open the Breach again."
He could have easily allowed Lord Arimond to distract the Inquisition then trundle off to the Temple (again) and reopened the Breach.
Its not about the Breach not being a doorway. The issue is: That Cory is shown (at the end) opening the Breach up again- with the orb- when he could have done so at any point.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 16, 2016 3:11:28 GMT
The wisdom of the Well merely lets the Inquisitor/Morrigan understand the nature of the magic Corypheus is using and how best to disrupt it. Doesn't matter that Corypheus didn't exist in their time; they have the insight of dozens of high-powered ancient mages at their command. Also, I cannot emphasize this enough: Corypheus CANNOT enter the Fade through the Breach. Not without the Anchor. The only reason he opens the Breach at the end is because he's lost and wants to draw the Inquisitor into a confrontation. He could have easily accomplished such confrontation at any point after Haven.
So what? After Haven Cory just sits around knitting and letting The Inquisition pick off his army one by one? Then all of a sudden Cory snaps out of his stupor and goes, "Well Shit! Minus well open the Breach again."After Haven, Corypheus sends his agents into the field to search elven ruins while he prepares Calpernia/Samson to be the Vessel for the knowledge contained in the Well of Sorrows. Obviously he knew about the Well but didn't know exactly where it was located. Meanwhile, Erimond is working with the Wardens to create the demon army and Florianne is readying to assassinate Celene and throw Orlais into chaos. He doesn't NEED to force the Inquisitor into a confrontation. If any of these plans succeeded, he would gain the power he is looking for. It's only when all three plans have completely failed that he decides to flip the chessboard by re-opening the Breach.
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Post by Cantina on Oct 16, 2016 4:05:21 GMT
He could have easily accomplished such confrontation at any point after Haven.
So what? After Haven Cory just sits around knitting and letting The Inquisition pick off his army one by one? Then all of a sudden Cory snaps out of his stupor and goes, "Well Shit! Minus well open the Breach again." After Haven, Corypheus sends his agents into the field to search elven ruins while he prepares Calpernia/Samson to be the Vessel for the knowledge contained in the Well of Sorrows. Obviously he knew about the Well but didn't know exactly where it was located. Meanwhile, Erimond is working with the Wardens to create the demon army and Florianne is readying to assassinate Celene and throw Orlais into chaos. He doesn't NEED to force the Inquisitor into a confrontation. If any of these plans succeeded, he would gain the power he is looking for. It's only when all three plans have completely failed that he decides to flip the chessboard by re-opening the Breach. Your trying to explain Cory’s reasons with the same repeated tripe you have said before. Furthermore, you add in “Oh well after Haven his agents did this...” For starters I know what his agents were doing, that does not explain what Cory was doing. Cory has the means to create chaos in the world, yet all, he does is – nothing.
Yes, send an agent to assassinate Celene. What is that going to do? The Council of Herald’s will just appoint Gaspard as Emperor. Considering Cory knew the Inquisition was disrupting his plans he could have done something catastrophic before-hand. March Vints and Red Templars into Orlais or hell instead of relying on an agent to kill Celene blow the Winter Palace to bits.
All of this could have been accomplished if Cory created too many catastrophic events for even an all-powerful organization to handle. I am not saying Cory should have succeed by doing this, no.
I am saying that there were many points in the story that made no sense, including the ending. If an enemy has the means to create chaos, why not create said chaos then go after whatever power or whatever it is your after.
If the developers are going to put a so-called all powerful enemy in the game, then it should come across as such. Not some enemy that slinks off into the shadows then reappears down the road and decides to throw a fit like a two year by reopening the Breach. Oh yes, very scary.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 16, 2016 4:18:17 GMT
Since Florianne pins Celene's murder on Gaspard, he's accused of treason. Leaderless, Orlais falls to Corypheus.
This is made very clear in the screen that accompanies the Inquisitor being tossed out of the Winter Palace.
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Post by Cantina on Oct 16, 2016 6:32:54 GMT
Since Florianne pins Celene's murder on Gaspard, he's accused of treason. Leaderless, Orlais falls to Corypheus. This is made very clear in the screen that accompanies the Inquisitor being tossed out of the Winter Palace. And....the developers assume that everyone would be kicked out of the ball?
Not once has my character ever been thus this information would be unbeknownst to me.
And how the hell can she pin the murder on Gaspard!?! If Florianne stabs Celene in front of everyone; are the spectators that gullible!?!
Still does not excuse the fact Cory's plan towards Celene was idiotic. Yes, send an agent to do it. Even though you could blow the ball up or just march on it or something.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 16, 2016 6:49:43 GMT
Since Florianne pins Celene's murder on Gaspard, he's accused of treason. Leaderless, Orlais falls to Corypheus. This is made very clear in the screen that accompanies the Inquisitor being tossed out of the Winter Palace. And....the developers assume that everyone would be kicked out of the ball?
Not once has my character ever been thus this information would be unbeknownst to me.
And how the hell can she pin the murder on Gaspard!?! If Florianne stabs Celene in front of everyone; are the spectators that gullible!?!
Still does not excuse the fact Cory's plan towards Celene was idiotic. Yes, send an agent to do it. Even though you could blow the ball up or just march on it or something. When a man's sister stabs his political enemy in front of him, and then basically tells him "you can thank me later," you don't have to be all that gullible to think he's in on it. His own men will believe his denials and fight for him anyway, but Celene's will be all too ready to believe he just put a rival out of the way. The armistice ends, and both sides are trying to kill each other again. Meanwhile blowing up the ball and marching on it both make clear that there's an outside enemy they need to be uniting against. If you can argue that there's holes in the plan Florianne used, you can't argue either of your alternatives would have better accomplished Corypheus's goals. Its not about the Breach not being a doorway. The issue is: That Cory is shown (at the end) opening the Breach up again- with the orb- when he could have done so at any point. What reason does he have unless he's planning to use it as a doorway? It doesn't matter that he can do so at any time, because he doesn't have any reason to except before the Inquisitor gets the Anchor (when Cory thinks he's going to get it himself and be able to use the Breach as a doorway) and at the end (when he's opening it even knowing its useless because he's angry beyond all reason and doesn't care about anything except drawing the Inquisitor into a trap.) Furthermore, everyone suggesting that the Breach was an existential threat to the world seemed to suggest that he had reason not to open it unless it was useful to him. He wants to rule the world, not ruin it. He merely settles for the latter when his plans to do the former are all gone.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 16, 2016 7:16:27 GMT
Since Florianne pins Celene's murder on Gaspard, he's accused of treason. Leaderless, Orlais falls to Corypheus. This is made very clear in the screen that accompanies the Inquisitor being tossed out of the Winter Palace. And....the developers assume that everyone would be kicked out of the ball?
Not once has my character ever been thus this information would be unbeknownst to me.It's stated very clearly by Josephine that letting Corypheus throw Orlais into chaos would be a bad thing, as Prlais holds back Tevinter. And all you have to do is use a little common sense: what would be the point in killing Celene if it just allowed Gaspard to take over? Blowing up the Winter Palace might not achieve his ends; it could have caused Orlais to rally against Corypheus. On the other hand, killing the Empress and pinning it on Gaspard? That leaves a vacuum.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 16, 2016 15:05:38 GMT
According to one of the game over screens, Corypheus does indeed enter the Fade after killing you, so how did he accomplish this? In another, if he defeats you in the final battle, apparently he simply lets the Breach grow until, as Morrigan predicted, it swallows the world in fiery chaos. I wonder what happens to Solas if that is the case?
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Post by oyabun on Oct 16, 2016 15:44:30 GMT
The premise of this story is inchoerent no matter how much someone wish to prove how logical it was.
Corypheus had the means to get the anchor back(mind control-body jump) yet he decided to not use them,Corypheus knew about the well because of "reasons" despite him being totally unrelated to the elves.
Him not using some GW to watch over the the door while he was powering up the Orb is the most incompetent action i have ever seen.
The PC of this game was overall a threat since it was the Inq who caused the breach,if it wasn't for the Inq with the anchor Corypheus would have trapped himself again in the Black city hopefully forever this time.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 16, 2016 15:54:30 GMT
According to one of the game over screens, Corypheus does indeed enter the Fade after killing you, so how did he accomplish this? It just proves that he had means to accomplish his goal even without the anchor,he did that once in the past.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 16, 2016 18:12:00 GMT
According to one of the game over screens, Corypheus does indeed enter the Fade after killing you, so how did he accomplish this? Using the knowledge of the Well of Sorrows, as that game over screen clearly states. He dies, along with the rest of Thedas? Solas doesn't want the Breach. The Breach is a tear in the Veil that turns spirits into demons. He wants to remove the Veil, but that's just returning Thedas to its natural state. People would die, but that's because the modern civilizations aren't adapted to a world without the Veil.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 16, 2016 18:21:28 GMT
Corypheus knew about the well because of "reasons" despite him being totally unrelated to the elves. Tevinter conquered the elves and acquired most of their knowledge. If you read the location codex for the Arbor Wilds, you'll see that the magisters did know about the Temple of Mythal, but the Sentinels were so lethal that they'd never conquered it. dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Arbor_Wilds
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Post by oyabun on Oct 16, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
Corypheus knew about the well because of "reasons" despite him being totally unrelated to the elves. Tevinter conquered the elves and acquired most of their knowledge. If you read the location codex for the Arbor Wilds, you'll see that the magisters did know about the Temple of Mythal, but the Sentinels were so lethal that they'd never conquered it. dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Arbor_WildsThat's even more contrived than before.The Inquisition is able to enter into the temple but the Tevinter Imperium of the past was not able to do that?The same empire who expanded on all of Thedas was not able to reach a single temple?That's seem rather an Asterix and Obelix kind of plot....
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Post by Prince on Oct 16, 2016 19:37:22 GMT
According to one of the game over screens, Corypheus does indeed enter the Fade after killing you, so how did he accomplish this? Using the knowledge of the Well of Sorrows, as that game over screen clearly states. . Mythal is the entity who control the voices of the well of sorrow,it's knowledge can't be used without her concession.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 16, 2016 19:53:18 GMT
The codex on the Arbor Wilds is misleading. It says it was the Tevinter Imperium but the letter from the Magister leading the expedition mentions the Dalish. Clearly this could not have been the original Imperium that Corypheus was a part of as there was no such thing as the Dalish in their time. Modern Tevinter still thinks of itself as the Imperium even though it is a fraction of its size at its height. So apparently, some time after the Dalish were defeated, a Magister led an expedition into the Arbor Wilds. Clearly this would not have been with a sizeable force since that would have antagonised Orlais. Hence them being wiped out by the sentinels.
Again, I would agree with the previous poster about how Corypheus is meant to have used the knowledge of the Well, when clearly the spirits within it decide for themselves just how much they wish to divulge. Unless of course they wanted Corypheus to enter the Fade because they knew it would free the Evanuris. The ancient elves have been waiting around all this time for something and it seems likely it is the removal of the Veil. Then Mythal can have her revenge.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 16, 2016 20:48:26 GMT
Using the knowledge of the Well of Sorrows, as that game over screen clearly states. . Mythal is the entity who control the voices of the well of sorrow,it's knowledge can't be used without her concession. Corypheus had a magical workaround, as seen on the Templar path.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 16, 2016 20:54:18 GMT
Tevinter conquered the elves and acquired most of their knowledge. If you read the location codex for the Arbor Wilds, you'll see that the magisters did know about the Temple of Mythal, but the Sentinels were so lethal that they'd never conquered it. dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Arbor_WildsThat's even more contrived than before.The Inquisition is able to enter into the temple but the Tevinter Imperium of the past was not able to do that?The same empire who expanded on all of Thedas was not able to reach a single temple?That's seem rather an Asterix and Obelix kind of plot....ce The Sentinels were battling two armies: Corypheus' forces and the Inquisition, backed by its allies. They were vastly outnumbered and outgunned.
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Post by Prince on Oct 16, 2016 21:07:07 GMT
Mythal is the entity who control the voices of the well of sorrow,it's knowledge can't be used without her concession. Corypheus had a magical workaround, as seen on the Templar path. The magical workaround he created would not have been able to force the whispers of the well of sorrow to speak to him because they are directed by Mythal,even an Inquisitor or Morrigan who drink from the well are not able to command the voices within their heads.Flemeth said in a dialogue that was her who controlled the whispers.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 16, 2016 21:16:39 GMT
Corypheus had a magical workaround, as seen on the Templar path. The magical workaround he created would not have been able to force the whispers of the well of sorrow to speak to him because they are directed by Mythal,even an Inquisitor or Morrigan who drink from the well are not able to command the voices within their heads.Flemeth said in a dialogue that was her who controlled the whispers. But Corypheus' spell obviously did work, or else you would not get an epilogue screen if you die in the Arbor Wilds. I'll note that if you bring Dorian to Corypheus' temple, he says the spell holding Erasthenes and compelling him to answer questions is strong enough to bind a dozen pride demons. And that was just a trial run for the spell he planned to use on Calpernia/Samson. So it was obviously strong enough to compel the Vessel to do what whatever he commanded.
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