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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 21, 2019 17:42:16 GMT
The elimination of anything that could be remotely construed as straight male fanservice, to the point where romances barely even exist for those players, and major alterations to the lore to remove all problematic content, which is entirely likely. Straight men have always had two romances in DA. Do you think you deserve more? No. But I also don’t think I should get less to give others more.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 21, 2019 17:45:56 GMT
Straight men have always had two romances in DA. Do you think you deserve more? No. But I also don’t think I should get less to give others more. Please explain, because this sounds like '' non-straight romances are a detriment to my enjoyment of the game because it cuts out of having more options for myself. '' But I don't think you mean that.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 21, 2019 17:47:22 GMT
I like the all bi/player sexual method of romance distribution. I think it’s the easiest way to give the widest array of options. It’s easier to have them available to everyone and have some with sexual histories that you can headcanon as them being bi/gay/straight depending what they talk about, while others are left completely blank slates. I’m for leaving the option to have some read as asexual or sexual based on your choices too. I think this is a good compromise over needing a large number of choices to fit every orientation. I think it worked well in Fallout 4 and most games seem to be leaning more towards this option.
I really don’t understand why some people are against using their imagination in this context and need it to be official. It’s a role playing game where literally nothing is real and the world and characters are shaped by our choices. It’s weird to me that some people resist this aspect of that so hard, especially because nobody seems to care much when it happens in other games.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 21, 2019 17:54:24 GMT
I like the all bi/player sexual method of romance distribution. I think it’s the easiest way to give the widest array of options. It’s easier to have them available to everyone and have some with sexual histories that you can headcanon as them being bi/gay/straight depending what they talk about, while others are left completely blank slates. I’m for leaving the option to have some read as asexual or sexual based on your choices too. I think this is a good compromise over needing a large number of choices to fit every orientation. I think it worked well in Fallout 4 and most games seem to be leaning more towards this option. I really don’t understand why some people are against using their imagination in this context and need it to be official. It’s a role playing game where literally nothing is real and the world and characters are shaped by our choices. It’s weird to me that some people resist this aspect of that so hard, especially because nobody seems to care much when it happens in other games. But they are not gay or straight if they are open for both genders? That is literally bi-erasure by every sense of the word. But, like you said, you really don't understand, and I'm going to assume that you have no need or want to understand.
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 21, 2019 17:58:47 GMT
No. But I also don’t think I should get less to give others more. Please explain, because this sounds like '' non-straight romances are a detriment to my enjoyment of the game because it cuts out of having more options for myself. '' But I don't think you mean that. I don’t mean that. But I know that there are others who believe I should get less to “balance the scales” for wrongs committed elsewhere. “ME didn’t have enough gay romances, so there should be more in DA to compensate.” “Women have been sexualized in media for far too long, so that content should be eliminated.” And so on. Also, some interests are incompatible. Take Hanako. He and I both like women, but he doesn’t like sexual content because he’s demisexual. I, however, like the fantasy of my protagonist being in a sexual relationship. So who gets what they want? “Well, then, they should add in more content for Hanako.” OK then, I can support that in principle. But what about all these other people who want a seat? At some point, someone has to be left out. That’s just simple reality.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 21, 2019 17:58:55 GMT
But they are not gay or straight if they are open for both genders? That is literally bi-erasure by every sense of the word. But, like you said, you really don't understand, and I'm going to assume that you have no need or want to understand. If they can be perceived as gay or straight in any specific playthrough without meta knowledge it’s really no different to any other aspect of character variability.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 21, 2019 17:59:53 GMT
Concerning his writing ability, I did enjoy the Masked Empire so I'm very optimistic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 18:06:54 GMT
In my case, I certainly want politics, not sure who said that, but it's not me. I want mature politics relevant to dragon age. If the devs insist to bring IRL politics, then, it's okay, but your game is not there to make your propaganda, it shouldn't be considered as your object for education. Allow our characters then to have different opinions, and to behave like whatever the hell we want. Otherwise it's just totally blatant.
It wasn't just about having a progressive tone, it was learn and shut up, I'm educating you. It just literally broke immersion. Especially unbelievable and shocking, since it was about the Qunari society that is so rigid.
And please don't retcon your lore, just because you realized it seemed too harsh and intolerant, jesus, ridiculous. It's no wonder that your product is less respected after.
But overall, creators should focus first on doing good movies or games and good characters, that's how you bring respect. This obsession with identity politics is more harmful than anything else. You only reach a niche most of time when you do it that way, not most people, regardless of their background, and that should be the goal.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 21, 2019 18:10:54 GMT
But they are not gay or straight if they are open for both genders? That is literally bi-erasure by every sense of the word. But, like you said, you really don't understand, and I'm going to assume that you have no need or want to understand. If they can be perceived as gay or straight in any specific playthrough without meta knowledge it’s really no different to any other aspect of character variability. Yeah I can't subscribe to this. It's just not how it works for me, and how I play video games.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 21, 2019 18:13:56 GMT
I like the all bi/player sexual method of romance distribution. I think it’s the easiest way to give the widest array of options. It’s easier to have them available to everyone and have some with sexual histories that you can headcanon as them being bi/gay/straight depending what they talk about, while others are left completely blank slates. I’m for leaving the option to have some read as asexual or sexual based on your choices too. I think this is a good compromise over needing a large number of choices to fit every orientation. I think it worked well in Fallout 4 and most games seem to be leaning more towards this option. I really don’t understand why some people are against using their imagination in this context and need it to be official. It’s a role playing game where literally nothing is real and the world and characters are shaped by our choices. It’s weird to me that some people resist this aspect of that so hard, especially because nobody seems to care much when it happens in other games. But they are not gay or straight if they are open for both genders? That is literally bi-erasure by every sense of the word. But, like you said, you really don't understand, and I'm going to assume that you have no need or want to understand. I think it’s really just down to whether you see every playthrough as it’s own capsule world where things can be entirely different or if you meta all possibilities to inform your views on characters/situations. You can’t be a male and female character in the same playthrough, so there’s no evidence a character is any sexuality if it’s not written in that playthrough. An actual person’s sexuality can’t change, but these aren’t real people. They’re not really “bisexual”, they’re imaginary and I don’t see why it matters what sexuality you imagine them to be in your various play throughs if there’s no evidence otherwise. If you want to see them as bisexual, that’s also fine. If the concern is representation, there’s no reason it can’t be there among NPCs that are not romances. Dorian could exist exactly as is and just not be a romance. Bi and straight people could make their sexuality clear throughout the game too.
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,979 Likes: 3,493
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 21, 2019 18:18:22 GMT
You haven't even watched the movie yet. You don't know what your talking about and your condemning it without actual evidence of the problem that you think it has. Watch the movie before you start bitching all how awful is it and chill out. Also, this is off topic as all Hell. In regard to Krem. You keep saying SJW and heavy-handed without even bothering to explain what exactly you felt was wrong with Krem's depiction and role in the narrative using examples. All that tells me is that you had a vague feeling that no one here can even argue against because its such a non-descript and vacuous complaint. It also tells me that you think resorting to name calling is a good replacement for an actual argument. If you have an issue with Krem and think his existence shows signs that Weekes is a bad writer than do the hard work of actually describing in narrative and literal terms why Krem is poorly executed. Meh, Krem isn't any kind of problem. It's entirely possible for a woman who feels, and maybe actually is, totally unsuited for whatever ordinary society has in store for her to go off the rails and try to make a life as something completely different. It's also possible for her to succeed so thoroughly at whatever role she dedicates herself to that she outshines most of the people around her who came to the life in simpler and more conventional ways. But if that's the case then it's because she worked her ass off and threw everything she had into what she was doing, which is admirable in anyone. The "problem" would have come if Krem's storyline had involved getting an honorary and unfairly earned rank in the Chargers just for being transgender, because that would have made the proposition of a medieval society, and mercenary group in particular, with the same sexual and gender identity standards as modern American college campuses even at the expense of their own literal effectiveness and self-preservation. Which would have been silly and boring and lazy, and a far cry from the gritty realism originally depicted in Dragon Age, which was what gave the game a foot in the door with a lot players in the first place. Krem must have trained and suffered like crazy to become one of the Chargers' best warriors, and sacrificed a lot of the things most people think makes life worth living along the way, and no doubt faced a lot of frustration to get his fellow soldiers to recognize him as anything other than weird and a bit off-putting. But he seems to have done all of that with merit and hard work and patience which is how such things are actually done in the real world. And he seems to have a good understanding of his comrades and strong intuition for strategy that noticeably serves and protects and affords his company opportunities, giving his superior clear and non-biased reason to value him way beyond personal sympathy or respect. That's the kind of trans story that I can get behind, as long as it isn't suggested to be common or universal. Because it isn't. It's fucking rare and fucking impressive to anyone who knows what it means to actually have to work hard for a living and carve out a real place for yourself in the world despite having faced challenges your peers couldn't imagine, and having compensated for them every step along the way without bitching about extra leeway or allowances. I think Weekes' stated philosophy is pretty naive, and his stated refusal to explain real life conditions to his daughter, much less change video game lore to avoid it, pathetic and short-sighted and selfish. But Solas and Krem both objectively rock. So it's certainly not like he can't write as long as political correctness doesn't run away with him.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 21, 2019 18:19:25 GMT
But they are not gay or straight if they are open for both genders? That is literally bi-erasure by every sense of the word. But, like you said, you really don't understand, and I'm going to assume that you have no need or want to understand. I think it’s really just down to whether you see every playthrough as it’s own capsule world where things can be entirely different or if you meta all possibilities to inform your views on characters/situations. You can’t be a male and female character in the same playthrough, so there’s no evidence a character is any sexuality if it’s not written in that playthrough. An actual person’s sexuality can’t change, but these aren’t real people. They’re not really “bisexual”, they’re imaginary and I don’t see why it matters what sexuality you imagine them to be in your various play throughs if there’s no evidence otherwise. If you want to see them as bisexual, that’s also fine. If the concern is representation, there’s no reason it can’t be there among NPCs that are not romances. Dorian could exist exactly as is and just not be a romance. Bi and straight people could make their sexuality clear throughout the game too. If we are going down the route of make believe, why can't people just IMAGINE that the playable character they are playing as is actually the opposite/same sex when they are romancing a gay/straight character? What makes gender something you can't just make-believe, but bisexuality is something you CAN override, it's just a commodity? And we have confirmation that if every romance was bi in DA:I, we wouldn't have more options. Dorian can't be the sole gay male character, let's not go there. And I wouldn't mind if NPCs were openly gay, and that'd be that in terms of representation. But how many non-straight NPCs do we even know? And then there's the issue of how the fuck are you going to openly represent and label a character as gay/lesbian/trans without being incredibly tacky and obnoxious.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 21, 2019 18:26:49 GMT
I think it’s really just down to whether you see every playthrough as it’s own capsule world where things can be entirely different or if you meta all possibilities to inform your views on characters/situations. You can’t be a male and female character in the same playthrough, so there’s no evidence a character is any sexuality if it’s not written in that playthrough. An actual person’s sexuality can’t change, but these aren’t real people. They’re not really “bisexual”, they’re imaginary and I don’t see why it matters what sexuality you imagine them to be in your various play throughs if there’s no evidence otherwise. If you want to see them as bisexual, that’s also fine. If the concern is representation, there’s no reason it can’t be there among NPCs that are not romances. Dorian could exist exactly as is and just not be a romance. Bi and straight people could make their sexuality clear throughout the game too. If we are going down the route of make believe, why can't people just IMAGINE that the playable character they are playing as is actually the opposite/same sex when they are romancing a gay/straight character? What makes gender something you can't just make-believe, but bisexuality is something you CAN override, it's just a commodity? Dorian can't be the sole gay male character, let's not go there. And I wouldn't mind if NPCs were openly gay, and that'd be that in terms of representation. But how many non-straight NPCs do we even know? And then there's the issue of how the fuck are you going to openly represent and label a character as gay/lesbian/trans without being incredibly tacky and obnoxious. I mean, I think the difference is pretty obvious that you’re clearly a male or female avatar. The difference is whether or not the information in the playthrough directly contradicts your “imagination”. So, if a character like Isabela or Anders directly talks about having sex with dudes and ladies, they are obviously bisexual in that playthrough. A character that never talks about sex or attraction, you could conceivably believe is anything. Although, tbh, I really don’t care if someone wants to pick a male/female character and pretend to be the other or pretend to be trans or whatever. However other people like to play, man. It doesn’t effect me, so they can knock themselves out.
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 21, 2019 18:28:25 GMT
There are DAI players who imagine the protagonist as being other than a binary gender. I’ve seen them on Twitter.
The socially responsible thing would be to allow the protagonist to be transgender, agender, genderfluid or intersex and to give them dialogue options acknowledging that. But is that the practical thing?
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 21, 2019 18:33:52 GMT
If we are going down the route of make believe, why can't people just IMAGINE that the playable character they are playing as is actually the opposite/same sex when they are romancing a gay/straight character? What makes gender something you can't just make-believe, but bisexuality is something you CAN override, it's just a commodity? Dorian can't be the sole gay male character, let's not go there. And I wouldn't mind if NPCs were openly gay, and that'd be that in terms of representation. But how many non-straight NPCs do we even know? And then there's the issue of how the fuck are you going to openly represent and label a character as gay/lesbian/trans without being incredibly tacky and obnoxious. I mean, I think the difference is pretty obvious that you’re clearly a male or female avatar. The difference is whether or not the information in the playthrough directly contradicts your “imagination”. So, if a character like Isabela or Anders directly talks about having sex with dudes and ladies, they are obviously bisexual in that playthrough. A character that never talks about sex or attraction, you could conceivably believe is anything.Although, tbh, I really don’t care if someone wants to pick a male/female character and pretend to be the other or pretend to be trans or whatever. However other people like to play, man. It doesn’t effect me, so they can knock themselves out. But they aren't just anything. There's a lot of things that go into making a character and building their identity, and sexuality is one of them, it's not just a commodity. If we are to believe sexuality is irrelevant then what's stopping a lot of other parts of their identity being something you yourself could mold? Race, gender, appearance, color of their skin, their class, the size of their breasts... might as well open everything up at that point.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 21, 2019 18:49:38 GMT
Mordin addressed this in one of his dialogue. The Reaper war changed this previous view (Mass Effect 2) on the genophage. not to mention I always got the feeling from his dialogue in 2 that he was almost talking himself into supporting the genophage in the first place. He sounded pretty uncomfortable. This was how I felt about it, and thought that the people who considered Mordin's stance in ME3 as a total about-face were off-base. The entire loyalty mission just had him talking through the moral quandary. He even goes so far as to call the disappearance of the Rachni as "tragic".
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Post by caladrius on Feb 21, 2019 18:49:55 GMT
I mean, I think the difference is pretty obvious that you’re clearly a male or female avatar. The difference is whether or not the information in the playthrough directly contradicts your “imagination”. So, if a character like Isabela or Anders directly talks about having sex with dudes and ladies, they are obviously bisexual in that playthrough. A character that never talks about sex or attraction, you could conceivably believe is anything.Although, tbh, I really don’t care if someone wants to pick a male/female character and pretend to be the other or pretend to be trans or whatever. However other people like to play, man. It doesn’t effect me, so they can knock themselves out. But they aren't just anything. There's a lot of things that go into making a character and building their identity, and sexuality is one of them, it's not just a commodity. If we are to believe sexuality is irrelevant then what's stopping a lot of other parts of their identity being something you yourself could mold? Race, gender, appearance, color of their skin, the size of their breasts... might as well open everything up at that point. I just don’t honestly see how it effects me that other people have headcanons about characters that I don’t have, or that the author probably never thought about. Like, if someone wants to believe Isabela is the rough equivalent of racially North African and someone else wants to believe she’s West African, neither of these things effect me even a little. If someone wants to believe she’s just a really tan white woman, still this does not actually effect me. If someone believes Solas is secretly a trans man, again, nothing changes for me. Some of the things you mentioned are visual, so they can’t really be changed in game and asking for resources to do that is kind of counter productive to the original point, but basically I just don’t care what other people choose to believe about their own game states. I think role playing games being open ended enough that people can make believe whatever wild scenarios they want is ultimately a good thing and gives the game the widest possible appeal. I don’t think there’s really anything wrong with allowing all groups to comfortably headcanon in their preferred identity politics without shutting anything down overtly, either, although there’s some genuine concern over expecting the writers to lean too vague on that kind of thing. I think that’s more in terms of expecting them to respect “white Isabela” and “trans Solas” level fantasies than just openly available LIs, though.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 21, 2019 18:50:42 GMT
I mean, I think the difference is pretty obvious that you’re clearly a male or female avatar. The difference is whether or not the information in the playthrough directly contradicts your “imagination”. So, if a character like Isabela or Anders directly talks about having sex with dudes and ladies, they are obviously bisexual in that playthrough. A character that never talks about sex or attraction, you could conceivably believe is anything.Although, tbh, I really don’t care if someone wants to pick a male/female character and pretend to be the other or pretend to be trans or whatever. However other people like to play, man. It doesn’t effect me, so they can knock themselves out. But they aren't just anything. There's a lot of things that go into making a character and building their identity, and sexuality is one of them, it's not just a commodity. If we are to believe sexuality is irrelevant then what's stopping a lot of other parts of their identity being something you yourself could mold? Race, gender, appearance, color of their skin, their class, the size of their breasts... might as well open everything up at that point. You can already mould leliana. It doesn’t bother me that in some other world someone else softens her even though I always harden her. in swtor couldn’t you tweak the visual appearance of companions between options?
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 21, 2019 19:03:39 GMT
But they aren't just anything. There's a lot of things that go into making a character and building their identity, and sexuality is one of them, it's not just a commodity. If we are to believe sexuality is irrelevant then what's stopping a lot of other parts of their identity being something you yourself could mold? Race, gender, appearance, color of their skin, the size of their breasts... might as well open everything up at that point. I just don’t honestly see how it effects me that other people have headcanons about characters that I don’t have, or that the author probably never thought about. Like, if someone wants to believe Isabela is the rough equivalent of racially North African and someone else wants to believe she’s West African, neither of these things effect me even a little. If someone wants to believe she’s just a really tan white woman, still this does not actually effect me. If someone believes Solas is secretly a trans man, again, nothing changes for me. Some of the things you mentioned are visual, so they can’t really be changed in game and asking for resources to do that is kind of counter productive to the original point, but basically I just don’t care what other people choose to believe about their own game states. I think role playing games being open ended enough that people can make believe whatever wild scenarios they want is ultimately a good thing and gives the game the widest possible appeal. I don’t think there’s really anything wrong with allowing all groups to comfortably headcanon in their preferred identity politics without shutting anything down overtly, either, although there’s some genuine concern over expecting the writers to lean too vague on that kind of thing. I think that’s more in terms of expecting them to respect “white Isabela” and “trans Solas” level fantasies than just openly available LIs, though. Everyone can already headcanon whatever they want about the characters whether or not they are bi gay or straight. People already mod the game to include bi Dorian, bi Cullen, bi Sera and write their own fanfiction about it. Roleplaying games being open-ended works for roleplaying games that are open-ended in almost every other aspect of it's design. A game where you literally have the freedom to do everything in any order you want to. There's no other path than the path you choose. A game like this would be Skyrim. But, in terms of Dragon Age, where despite being a roleplaying game, you are still pretty shackled to the main story, and the big appeal of the franchise is characters who aren't just brief NPCs, with their own identity and opinions that aren't necessarily dictated by the player. This is Dragon Age's strength, not a weakness, and the addition of sexuality adds immersion and a thorough identity to the characters, that play a big part of the appeal, the story and roleplaying your own character. I don't really have any issue with Skyrim being all-bi, because the characters you can '' romance '' are hardly important to the world, or to your own roleplaying outside of adding a nice little addition to the follower system and character building. But it's definitely not an important aspect of the game, so these characters having an identity you can basically mold any way you want is not only fine, but encouraged. Dragon Age is basically the opposite of this, where characters have and should have a strong presence in the story and roleplaying. To make their sexualities a commodity and completely irrelevant, just so can people can headcanon everything about them themselves, breaks my immersion, and I don't much care for it and I don't think Dragon Age should go down that road. But nevertheless, a few last questions 1) what kind of games then CAN have gay characters, if not roleplaying games with romances 2) is Fenris gay? is Anders straight? is Isabela straight? is Merrill a lesbian? Tell me.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 21, 2019 19:13:56 GMT
I just don’t honestly see how it effects me that other people have headcanons about characters that I don’t have, or that the author probably never thought about. Like, if someone wants to believe Isabela is the rough equivalent of racially North African and someone else wants to believe she’s West African, neither of these things effect me even a little. If someone wants to believe she’s just a really tan white woman, still this does not actually effect me. If someone believes Solas is secretly a trans man, again, nothing changes for me. Some of the things you mentioned are visual, so they can’t really be changed in game and asking for resources to do that is kind of counter productive to the original point, but basically I just don’t care what other people choose to believe about their own game states. I think role playing games being open ended enough that people can make believe whatever wild scenarios they want is ultimately a good thing and gives the game the widest possible appeal. I don’t think there’s really anything wrong with allowing all groups to comfortably headcanon in their preferred identity politics without shutting anything down overtly, either, although there’s some genuine concern over expecting the writers to lean too vague on that kind of thing. I think that’s more in terms of expecting them to respect “white Isabela” and “trans Solas” level fantasies than just openly available LIs, though. Everyone can already headcanon whatever they want about the characters whether or not they are bi gay or straight. People already mod the game to include bi Dorian, bi Cullen, bi Sera and write their own fanfiction about it. Roleplaying games being open-ended works for roleplaying games that are open-ended in almost every other aspect of it's design. A game where you literally have the freedom to do everything in any order you want to. There's no other path than the path you choose. A game like this would be Skyrim. But, in terms of Dragon Age, where despite being a roleplaying game, you are still pretty shackled to the main story, and the big appeal of the franchise is characters who aren't just brief NPCs, with their own identity and opinions that aren't necessarily dictated by the player. This is Dragon Age's strength, not a weakness, and the addition of sexuality adds immersion and a thorough identity to the characters, that play a big part of the appeal, the story and roleplaying your own character. I don't really have any issue with Skyrim being all-bi, because the characters you can '' romance '' are hardly important to the world, or to your own roleplaying outside of adding a nice little addition to the follower system and character building. But it's definitely not an important aspect of the game, so these characters having an identity you can basically mold any way you want is not only fine, but encouraged. Dragon Age is basically the opposite of this, where characters have and should have a strong presence in the story and roleplaying. To make their sexualities a commodity and completely irrelevant, just so can people can headcanon everything about them themselves, breaks my immersion, and I don't much care for it and I don't think Dragon Age should go down that road. But nevertheless, a few last questions 1) what kind of games then CAN have gay characters, if not roleplaying games with romances 2) is Fenris gay? is Anders straight? is Isabela straight? is Merrill a lesbian? Tell me. I just don’t see how the DA2 characters were in any way less developed despite some of them being written fairly ambiguous. I don’t see that in Fallout 4, either. It doesn’t seem particularly limiting to me. I don’t think any games actually have a full cast of characters that clearly state they’re gay/straight/bi and I think that would be more jarring than having some or all relatively open ended, like DA2 and Fallout 4. As for what games can have gay characters, any game can have them. I’m definitely not suggesting there shouldn’t be gay characters in bioware games. There can be gay characters in games like The Last of Us and Overwatch and any game that has humanoid characters that reference sexuality in any capacity, basically.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 21, 2019 19:19:59 GMT
But nevertheless, a few last questions 1) what kind of games then CAN have gay characters, if not roleplaying games with romances 2) is Fenris gay? is Anders straight? is Isabela straight? is Merrill a lesbian? Tell me. After playing the game multiple times Merrill could be into sex with demons for all I know.Why does it matter?
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 21, 2019 19:21:35 GMT
Everyone can already headcanon whatever they want about the characters whether or not they are bi gay or straight. People already mod the game to include bi Dorian, bi Cullen, bi Sera and write their own fanfiction about it. Roleplaying games being open-ended works for roleplaying games that are open-ended in almost every other aspect of it's design. A game where you literally have the freedom to do everything in any order you want to. There's no other path than the path you choose. A game like this would be Skyrim. But, in terms of Dragon Age, where despite being a roleplaying game, you are still pretty shackled to the main story, and the big appeal of the franchise is characters who aren't just brief NPCs, with their own identity and opinions that aren't necessarily dictated by the player. This is Dragon Age's strength, not a weakness, and the addition of sexuality adds immersion and a thorough identity to the characters, that play a big part of the appeal, the story and roleplaying your own character. I don't really have any issue with Skyrim being all-bi, because the characters you can '' romance '' are hardly important to the world, or to your own roleplaying outside of adding a nice little addition to the follower system and character building. But it's definitely not an important aspect of the game, so these characters having an identity you can basically mold any way you want is not only fine, but encouraged. Dragon Age is basically the opposite of this, where characters have and should have a strong presence in the story and roleplaying. To make their sexualities a commodity and completely irrelevant, just so can people can headcanon everything about them themselves, breaks my immersion, and I don't much care for it and I don't think Dragon Age should go down that road. But nevertheless, a few last questions 1) what kind of games then CAN have gay characters, if not roleplaying games with romances 2) is Fenris gay? is Anders straight? is Isabela straight? is Merrill a lesbian? Tell me. I just don’t see how the DA2 characters were in any way less developed despite some of them being written fairly ambiguous. I don’t see that in Fallout 4, either. It doesn’t seem particularly limiting to me. I don’t think any games actually have a full cast of characters that clearly state they’re gay/straight/bi and I think that would be more jarring than having some or all relatively open ended, like DA2 and Fallout 4. As for what games can have gay characters, any game can have them. I’m definitely not suggesting there shouldn’t be gay characters in bioware games. There can be gay characters in games like The Last of Us and Overwatch and any game that has humanoid characters that reference sexuality in any capacity, basically. I personally didn't care for DA2 because of this, and without me sounding like a jerk, I didn't feel like they had as strong of an identity as the other two games in the series. It did break my immersion and I wasn't as drawn into the characters.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 21, 2019 19:25:02 GMT
I just don’t see how the DA2 characters were in any way less developed despite some of them being written fairly ambiguous. I don’t see that in Fallout 4, either. It doesn’t seem particularly limiting to me. I don’t think any games actually have a full cast of characters that clearly state they’re gay/straight/bi and I think that would be more jarring than having some or all relatively open ended, like DA2 and Fallout 4. As for what games can have gay characters, any game can have them. I’m definitely not suggesting there shouldn’t be gay characters in bioware games. There can be gay characters in games like The Last of Us and Overwatch and any game that has humanoid characters that reference sexuality in any capacity, basically. I personally didn't care for DA2 because of this, and without me sounding like a jerk, I didn't feel like they had as strong of an identity as the other two games in the series. It did break my immersion and I wasn't as drawn into the characters. I think this must just be a disconnect on personal taste, because I thought DA2 had the strongest characters and Inquisition had the weakest. I’m not saying you’re “wrong”, though, I think it’s totally subjective.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 21, 2019 19:33:01 GMT
a-LEXI-s Kennedy is who I meant. And I am referring to this article ( jstationx.com/2017/05/31/bioware-lgbt-characters-criticism/ ), where Kennedy said BioWare needs to "tread a careful path between doing enough and doing too much" for LGBT audiences, because they are going to "annoy someone somewhere down the line". So. I'll take Weekes over a writer who outright states that BioWare should cater to or even acknowledge homophobes in any way. Even if he does end up violently milking my tear ducts to satisfy the sadistic thirst of Manveer Heir. Yup, because not doing absolutely everything in your power to pander to a minor part of the player base, along with the much larger and nosier group that kicks up a fuss at the first opportunity on their behalf to feel good about themselves, and pushing away the rest of your customers to accommodate that noisier group's every whim is definitely catering to homophobia. It's fairly obvious that the next game is going to be even more of a SJW wish-fulfillment fantasy than Inquisition was. Or "speculative fiction". Because that's totally what it is when an entitled minority cries evil and threatens careers if their half-baked politics aren't allowed to utterly dominate how the world works. Whether he'll learn from it when that backfires and sales plummet amid complaints and fading interest, or double down and never get another game released because by then the PC movement will be too fractured and self-conflicting to even attempt to satisfy with a coherent story, and he still can't dad the fuck up enough to have an honest conversation with his own daughter about sex or gender role assignments throughout history? Who knows. Funny thing that idea about "how the world works". I mean, heaven forfend a developer ignore our totally reliable grab-bag of "real world" statistics when creating a product designed to cater to as many different kinds of players as possible.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 21, 2019 19:35:18 GMT
I personally didn't care for DA2 because of this, and without me sounding like a jerk, I didn't feel like they had as strong of an identity as the other two games in the series. It did break my immersion and I wasn't as drawn into the characters. I think this must just be a disconnect on personal taste, because I thought DA2 had the strongest characters and Inquisition had the weakest. I’m not saying you’re “wrong”, though, I think it’s totally subjective. Well, I thought the non-romacneable cast was good, but I can't say I found myself drawn to the all-bi cast of romanceables. It would be wrong to say that I didn't like them just because of that, but it certainly didn't help me to really immerse into the world. In the end, it's a major, MAJOR plus for me to be a gay man and romance a gay man, or have the possbility to. It's something I actively look in games like this. And I will fight tooth and nail for the future of Dragon Age to include gay men who are not just Dorian.
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