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Post by Catilina on Apr 18, 2017 8:29:24 GMT
I think, this will kill him slowly. As he said at Gallows. 1. It may help to survive that the war finally started, but I think, so hard to live with a thought, that he betrayed his fellows, and fought against them, especially after that he caused the rebellion. 2. Or (and this version even worse in my eyes): he just try to live for Hawke, s/he is only who/what remained in his life (and Justice as an internal enemy), because anything what was important to him, is destroyed by Hawke. And he now believes in one thing: he failed in everything: he failed as warden (escaped), he failed as healer (he killed people, instead healed them), he failed as revolutioner (betrayed his fellows), he failed as mage (he possessed, willingly), he failed as friend (he trapped Justice, and makes him demon), and he failed as human (he killed many innocents for ...what? He doesn't know anymore...). Hawke finally won: Anders only his/hers property. (This is why I think, that not the death sentence is the biggest punishment to rival-Anders. Perhaps an exaggeration, but I think there is little chance to him to able ever really live in the future.) There are moderate Templars, yes, but they are Templars, they mostly joined the order as a naive boy/girl, and stayed, because brainwashed/lyrium addict, or this is a good job. They believe the Circle, because they learned this*. But Hawke isn't Templar. Hawke is a mage's son/daughter, this is different. Hawke sees the Kirkwall Templars' cruelty as a member of the mage family. I know, Malcolm was written as a "neutral" mage, but just see Bethany: she would rather die, than become Tranquil. Kirkwall's Circle isn't safe place for any mages. Perhaps, a templar doesn't see that (Thrask and Keran were able to see), but Hawke must see after Karl's and Ella's case. And don't forget: Cullen agree with Tranquility. At least in DA2, perhaps later... I don't know, this wasn't clear. And Fle/Myth said, that they are one, just as Anders. (Okay, Fle/Myth is old, very old, Anders/Justice isn't.) True, they have independent thought. I think Hawke only can influence, that they will able to live together in peace, or always will in war. I think, the "You are a monster, love, you must hate your demon-friend" isn't help too much. ______________ * This applies equally to the mages: they learned to fear themselves since their early childhood. They don't remember, their family life, or have terrible past (Wynne). Anders was elder (12), when arrested, he remembered. Fiona was 14, when went into the Circle, and found the Circle not so much better than the slavery. If there are many Mages were able to believe that s/he's a monster, how easy was that as a Templar... 1. You don't have to side Templars at the end, or even Templar leaning, to rival Anders throughout the game. As a mage, you can also believe in more freedom for mages- just not be willing the pay the price of chaos and anarchy to achieve it. I think the end decision is poorly written. No matter how you look at it, Meredith is insane: A. turning her back on the man who openly admitted to commiting a massivecrime B. Turning her back on a group of individuals who claim they'll fight against her and her people. C. Not helping the citizens of Kirkwall burning and buried in their homes to D. Kill a bunch of unrelated trapped mages in the gallows. Even Cullen turns on her in the end- so a moderate Templar would NOT side with Meredith. In the end, Anders decided unilaterally and at the behest of an insistent vengeance spirit, to make the choice for all mages everywhere. Then they and many other citizens of Thedas got to pay the price for his unilateral decision. And you DON'T have to be a self hating mage. You can just feel that complete freedom for mages isn't worth the cost of death, chaos, and anarchy. Plain and simple. 2. And I think that there isn't enough information on spirit posession either way to have anything but circular debate. But that's why I point out that you can't be certain either. Connor was posessed by a demon, but would come out sporadically. Flemeth is posessed by an elven goddess, but they've already been together for the entirety of that human's body, so whatever problems the merge would have had have already worked out. A third example is what the Avaar do. 4th example is the seers in Rivain. There may be things happening in Tevinter. And then we have Anders. It was consensual, but then he regretted it- then he tried to make peace with it. But why make peace when you could also seek to reverse the merge? 1. Yes, I don't, but the base question was not a rival romance in general, but a rival romance as a Templar-Hawke. I answered to that. But let's see: Hawke didn't know, when started the rivalry with Anders, that seven years later he will blow up the Chantry and cause chaos and deaths, Hawke only saw a helpful man, who wants to work for freedom of mages, and who's is in symbiosis with a spirit. S/He know nothing about Anders plan, even Anders doesn't know about his future plan at the moment, and at the moment and yet for a long time. If Hawke rival with him at the start, then Hawke don't want to see the Kirkwall Circle's cruelty, believes, that the mages deserve lifetime imprisonment, and consider Anders a monster. In the rivalry I do not see the goodwill toward him, but the refusal of what he is, and his cause. About Hawke's desire for peace, I can accept what you wrote, this end may be a bit undeveloped, but not totally illogical. At the beginning of the Act 3, we experienced, that Meredith wants to rule over the city, because her paranoia escalated. We also experienced, that Elthina's able to maintain the peace, but doesn't want to bridle the madwoman. So the situation will not change without some kind drastic intervention. So: a peacekeeper Hawke, as you said, must to support this lunatic, there is no other choice for him/her. But to support her means: support the corruption and cruelty, and let the madness to rule over the city. Sometimes the war is necessary. I agree, a good Templar Hawke can support the mages at the end, yes, this would be a good choice (there are not so much logical reason to support Meredith's madness), but also Templar-hearted and peacekeeper (naive?) Hawke can support her, as for example, Samson supported her, despite, that he consider her cruel and unacceptable. There are so much blood mage in Kirkwall, perhaps, she's right... (Don't forget: Varric also rather supports the Templars, just for the peace.) About the help to people: You can't start the rescue mission, until the battle finishing. Also at qunari war, Hawke didn't help to the people, rather tried the stop the crisis. 2. Yes, we don't have enough information, this is, why I build my answer on Anders version. Anders spoke about Connor's case (of course not specifically Connor, but similar), in Act 1, that they can't separate, without killing Justice. That happened with Connor. But Anders doesn't want this. The other possibility is the Avvar method, but Anders doesn't know about it, I suppose. But what is Justice's position exactly, we don't know, we can rely only on his experience at the moment, and he said, Justice (as separate identity) is gone, already a part of him (Act 1). Perhaps there are methods with which can be separated again. But they have independent thought, we know that: Justice doesn't approve his love toward Hawke (in the rivalry, he's right), but don't prevent this. So: Anders is able to enforce his will, if that different than Justice's, and he really wants it. This is why I don't think, that Hawke convinced Anders in the Act 3, pillow scene. Of course, Anders hates this method (nevertheless, that the explosion is rather his method, not Justice's – or Vengeance's), this is why he retreat so easily, when Hawke speaks about the peaceful solution. He likes peace, and doesn't want to be a murderer, but really he doesn't believe in the peace in Kirkwall anymore, and he sees, that Hawke never will understand. As I saw: he let Justice to stop Hawke, but this is the moment, where he passes the responsibility to Justice, and gives up the fight. Yes, okay, we can say –as you wrote before–, that Hawke succeeds to help him to return to his pre-Justice self... He is uncertain, sad and helpless, just in the Awakening. And wants to run away again. As an added bonus he also hates himself.
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Post by phoray on Apr 18, 2017 13:33:37 GMT
1. You don't have to side Templars at the end, or even Templar leaning, to rival Anders throughout the game. As a mage, you can also believe in more freedom for mages- just not be willing the pay the price of chaos and anarchy to achieve it. I think the end decision is poorly written. No matter how you look at it, Meredith is insane: A. turning her back on the man who openly admitted to commiting a massivecrime B. Turning her back on a group of individuals who claim they'll fight against her and her people. C. Not helping the citizens of Kirkwall burning and buried in their homes to D. Kill a bunch of unrelated trapped mages in the gallows. Even Cullen turns on her in the end- so a moderate Templar would NOT side with Meredith. In the end, Anders decided unilaterally and at the behest of an insistent vengeance spirit, to make the choice for all mages everywhere. Then they and many other citizens of Thedas got to pay the price for his unilateral decision. And you DON'T have to be a self hating mage. You can just feel that complete freedom for mages isn't worth the cost of death, chaos, and anarchy. Plain and simple. 2. And I think that there isn't enough information on spirit posession either way to have anything but circular debate. But that's why I point out that you can't be certain either. Connor was posessed by a demon, but would come out sporadically. Flemeth is posessed by an elven goddess, but they've already been together for the entirety of that human's body, so whatever problems the merge would have had have already worked out. A third example is what the Avaar do. 4th example is the seers in Rivain. There may be things happening in Tevinter. And then we have Anders. It was consensual, but then he regretted it- then he tried to make peace with it. But why make peace when you could also seek to reverse the merge? 1. Yes, I don't, but the base question was not a rival romance in general, but a rival romance as a Templar-Hawke. I answered to that. But let's see: Hawke didn't know, when started the rivalry with Anders, that seven years later he will blow up the Chantry and cause chaos and deaths, Hawke only saw a helpful man, who wants to work for freedom of mages, and who's is in symbiosis with a spirit. S/He know nothing about Anders plan, even Anders doesn't know about his future plan at the moment, and at the moment and yet for a long time. If Hawke rival with him at the start, then Hawke don't want to see the Kirkwall Circle's cruelty, believes, that the mages deserve lifetime imprisonment, and consider Anders a monster. In the rivalry I do not see the goodwill toward him, but the refusal of what he is, and his cause. About Hawke's desire for peace, I can accept what you wrote, this end may be a bit undeveloped, but not totally illogical. At the beginning of the Act 3, we experienced, that Meredith wants to rule over the city, because her paranoia escalated. We also experienced, that Elthina's able to maintain the peace, but doesn't want to bridle the madwoman. So the situation will not change without some kind drastic intervention. So: a peacekeeper Hawke, as you said, must to support this lunatic, there is no other choice for him/her. But to support her means: support the corruption and cruelty, and let the madness to rule over the city. Sometimes the war is necessary. I agree, a good Templar Hawke can support the mages at the end, yes, this would be a good choice (there are not so much logical reason to support Meredith's madness), but also Templar-hearted and peacekeeper (naive?) Hawke can support her, as for example, Samson supported her, despite, that he consider her cruel and unacceptable. There are so much blood mage in Kirkwall, perhaps, she's right... (Don't forget: Varric also rather supports the Templars, just for the peace.) About the help to people: You can't start the rescue mission, until the battle finishing. Also at qunari war, Hawke didn't help to the people, rather tried the stop the crisis. 2. Yes, we don't have enough information, this is, why I build my answer on Anders version. Anders spoke about Connor's case (of course not specifically Connor, but similar), in Act 1, that they can't separate, without killing Justice. That happened with Connor. But Anders doesn't want this. The other possibility is the Avvar method, but Anders doesn't know about it, I suppose. But what is Justice's position exactly, we don't know, we can rely only on his experience at the moment, and he said, Justice (as separate identity) is gone, already a part of him (Act 1). Perhaps there are methods with which can be separated again. But they have independent thought, we know that: Justice doesn't approve his love toward Hawke (in the rivalry, he's right), but don't prevent this. So: Anders is able to enforce his will, if that different than Justice's, and he really wants it. This is why I don't think, that Hawke convinced Anders in the Act 3, pillow scene. Of course, Anders hates this method (nevertheless, that the explosion is rather his method, not Justice's – or Vengeance's), this is why he retreat so easily, when Hawke speaks about the peaceful solution. He likes peace, and doesn't want to be a murderer, but really he doesn't believe in the peace in Kirkwall anymore, and he sees, that Hawke never will understand. As I saw: he let Justice to stop Hawke, but this is the moment, where he passes the responsibility to Justice, and gives up the fight. Yes, okay, we can say –as you wrote before–, that Hawke succeeds to help him to return to his pre-Justice self... He is uncertain, sad and helpless, just in the Awakening. And wants to run away again. As an added bonus he also hates himself. This is fun. 1. This sounds like a challenge. IF someone played a moderate Templar/Mage, whether or not the romance could even start because the points are in the middle. More like Fenris- back, forth, back, forth. 2. Connon can have the demon removed without dying. Also, Anders has never tried to remove Justice. Also, Justice and Anders both ASSUMED Justice would "die" if not attached to a body. But look at Cole. Look at the Faith Spirits who come from the Fade to semi posess the seekers. The Avaar spirits can be bound to a bdy but they can also just float around interacting with the living. All Justice and Anders have are assumptions, not knowledge. And the memory lapses Anders has are a sign of their being separate, still, even if most of the time they overlap in the mind enough to make them think they are one. he doesn't have to hate himself. And he was never helpless- he escaped a million times from the Circle. He was intelligent, charming, and angry, if a coward. But even if they split now, Anders will have been changed by his ten years with a spirit. I just think my happy ending with him would be to seek out the experts and find a way to separate.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 18, 2017 13:54:50 GMT
1. Yes, I don't, but the base question was not a rival romance in general, but a rival romance as a Templar-Hawke. I answered to that. But let's see: Hawke didn't know, when started the rivalry with Anders, that seven years later he will blow up the Chantry and cause chaos and deaths, Hawke only saw a helpful man, who wants to work for freedom of mages, and who's is in symbiosis with a spirit. S/He know nothing about Anders plan, even Anders doesn't know about his future plan at the moment, and at the moment and yet for a long time. If Hawke rival with him at the start, then Hawke don't want to see the Kirkwall Circle's cruelty, believes, that the mages deserve lifetime imprisonment, and consider Anders a monster. In the rivalry I do not see the goodwill toward him, but the refusal of what he is, and his cause. About Hawke's desire for peace, I can accept what you wrote, this end may be a bit undeveloped, but not totally illogical. At the beginning of the Act 3, we experienced, that Meredith wants to rule over the city, because her paranoia escalated. We also experienced, that Elthina's able to maintain the peace, but doesn't want to bridle the madwoman. So the situation will not change without some kind drastic intervention. So: a peacekeeper Hawke, as you said, must to support this lunatic, there is no other choice for him/her. But to support her means: support the corruption and cruelty, and let the madness to rule over the city. Sometimes the war is necessary. I agree, a good Templar Hawke can support the mages at the end, yes, this would be a good choice (there are not so much logical reason to support Meredith's madness), but also Templar-hearted and peacekeeper (naive?) Hawke can support her, as for example, Samson supported her, despite, that he consider her cruel and unacceptable. There are so much blood mage in Kirkwall, perhaps, she's right... (Don't forget: Varric also rather supports the Templars, just for the peace.) About the help to people: You can't start the rescue mission, until the battle finishing. Also at qunari war, Hawke didn't help to the people, rather tried the stop the crisis. 2. Yes, we don't have enough information, this is, why I build my answer on Anders version. Anders spoke about Connor's case (of course not specifically Connor, but similar), in Act 1, that they can't separate, without killing Justice. That happened with Connor. But Anders doesn't want this. The other possibility is the Avvar method, but Anders doesn't know about it, I suppose. But what is Justice's position exactly, we don't know, we can rely only on his experience at the moment, and he said, Justice (as separate identity) is gone, already a part of him (Act 1). Perhaps there are methods with which can be separated again. But they have independent thought, we know that: Justice doesn't approve his love toward Hawke (in the rivalry, he's right), but don't prevent this. So: Anders is able to enforce his will, if that different than Justice's, and he really wants it. This is why I don't think, that Hawke convinced Anders in the Act 3, pillow scene. Of course, Anders hates this method (nevertheless, that the explosion is rather his method, not Justice's – or Vengeance's), this is why he retreat so easily, when Hawke speaks about the peaceful solution. He likes peace, and doesn't want to be a murderer, but really he doesn't believe in the peace in Kirkwall anymore, and he sees, that Hawke never will understand. As I saw: he let Justice to stop Hawke, but this is the moment, where he passes the responsibility to Justice, and gives up the fight. Yes, okay, we can say –as you wrote before–, that Hawke succeeds to help him to return to his pre-Justice self... He is uncertain, sad and helpless, just in the Awakening. And wants to run away again. As an added bonus he also hates himself. This is fun. 1. This sounds like a challenge. IF someone played a moderate Templar/Mage, whether or not the romance could even start because the points are in the middle. More like Fenris- back, forth, back, forth. 2. Connon can have the demon removed without dying. Also, Anders has never tried to remove Justice. Also, Justice and Anders both ASSUMED Justice would "die" if not attached to a body. But look at Cole. Look at the Faith Spirits who come from the Fade to semi posess the seekers. The Avaar spirits can be bound to a bdy but they can also just float around interacting with the living. All Justice and Anders have are assumptions, not knowledge. And the memory lapses Anders has are a sign of their being separate, still, even if most of the time they overlap in the mind enough to make them think they are one. he doesn't have to hate himself. And he was never helpless- he escaped a million times from the Circle. He was intelligent, charming, and angry, if a coward. But even if they split now, Anders will have been changed by his ten years with a spirit. I just think my happy ending with him would be to seek out the experts and find a way to separate. Pro-templar friendship, or pro-mage rivalry? Yes, this is a good evil challenge... The pro-Templar friendship would be satisfying to the people, who feel themselves betrayed by him. The demon died, not Connor In Awakening? Yes, he doesn't hate himself. If Hawke crushes him, he got back his uncertainty, sadness, okay, probably not helplessness, but loneliness (I think, rival-Hawke isn't matter, or just increases his loneliness with the constant scolding), AND as a bonus gift he got the self-hatred. Just because Hawke loves him. I think, there are no happy end, if Hawke doesn't recognize finally, that he was right. (The loophole: Mage side, finally. And Hawke let Justice in peace, until they found a solution. He would be broken, but his faith can be return. I think, this is your version.) But if he forced to support the Templars, I think, the happy end is exluded. Why? Because blew up the Chantry, without any reason. Because he turned against his people. You think: you would be able to live happily with this thought? Not mentioned, that this ideological difference, it is impossible a healthy long term love relationship between two different world-view people.
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 18, 2017 15:27:44 GMT
I think the reasoning behind why Anders and Justice can't be separated is that Justice is in the Waking World. The desire demon that possessed Connor was in the Fade. I believe that it was mentioned in DA:O (either by Jowan or Irving, can't remember) Justice isn't in the Fade (sent to the Waking World by Baroness' spell in DA:OA) Of course, we don't have enough information on spirits right now. Things we know to be true may not be true as DA:I showed us. Though I wonder, would Avvar's technique of reversing spirit possession work on Anders? Unfortunately, we may never know...
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Post by Catilina on Apr 18, 2017 15:34:39 GMT
I think the reasoning behind why Anders and Justice can't be separated is that Justice is in the Waking World. The desire demon that possessed Connor was in the Fade. I believe that it was mentioned in DA:O (either by Jowan or Irving, can't remember) Justice isn't in the Fade (sent to the Waking World by Baroness' spell in DA:OA) Of course, we don't have enough information on spirits right now. Things we know to be true may not be true as DA:I showed us. Though I wonder, would Avvar's technique of reversing spirit possession work on Anders? Unfortunately, we may never know... Perhaps, the separation is possible, but I think, Anders only want this, if this procedure, if total safe. He feels responsibility for Justice.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 19, 2017 18:18:19 GMT
Oh, I like it! (I never used red answers with him, I saw this version first here)
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"No, no. Let's not and say we did."
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 20, 2017 16:35:35 GMT
Oh, I like it! (I never used red answers with him, I saw this version first here) Oh I like that aggressive answer! I sometimes chose it with my female Hawke because I love how he says, "Don't threaten me, little girl!"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 13:03:09 GMT
I was reading a book about the WWII, and found a coolest namesake for Anders, one Wladislaw Anders. He was a Polish guy of some immeasurable spirit. Tried to fight Nazis during Polish occupation, got captured an incarcerated by the Soviets, who at the time were at peace with Germany. When the war broke, the Soviet released the pow Poles, offering them to join the Red Army. Anders took about two thousand men instead to the Middle East to link up with the British, a unit that was called Anders' Army... an interesting man, and seemed to have a turbulent life. Just thought I'd share for the whole truth-fiction kicks.
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Post by Rouccoco on Apr 24, 2017 13:52:54 GMT
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Post by Catilina on Apr 24, 2017 23:10:22 GMT
Don't mind me, I'll just leave this here: Welcome here! Thank you, I like this, have on my blog. And here one more (reunion? perhaps): source
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Post by Tekehu's booty on Apr 28, 2017 21:31:19 GMT
have to share this, so badass link
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Post by Iddy on May 5, 2017 16:18:44 GMT
I wonder if there is any point in trying to end oppression peacefully. The Chantry and world leaders in general will never lift a finger to help mages or elves unless they are forced to.
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Post by Catilina on May 5, 2017 20:53:53 GMT
I wonder if there is any point in trying to end oppression peacefully. The Chantry and world leaders in general will never lift a finger to help mages or elves unless they are forced to. I think, no. How? Peaceful demonstration? Behind the closed doors? And who? The peaceful Mages inside the Circles or hiding. Even if people see the oppression, they need to face with the Templars: in Kirkwall some nobles saw the oppression, and wanted to kick Meredith from Kirkwall, but they counted that this would be bloody (Noble Agenda). But their rebellion planned only against Meredith, and her extreme oppression, not for mage freedom. We speak about thousand years of practice, this hard to change without some bloodshed.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 20:51:29 GMT
The society in Kirkwall is simply not progressive or liberal enough to offer legislative protection to the mages. The only codex in Thedas that legislatively ensures and enforces the rights to practice magic are Tevinter laws, so the state run by mages naturally protects the mages. They, however, severely oppress other classes. Bloodless changes of world's order are a holy grail of the revolutionary thinking, but in practice rarely happened, particularly on behalf of a tiny minority, that in all likelihood made scapegoats in popular imagination during the lean times.
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Post by Catilina on May 8, 2017 21:00:50 GMT
The society in Kirkwall is simply not progressive or liberal enough to offer legislative protection to the mages. The only codex in Thedas that legislatively ensures and enforces the rights to practice magic are Tevinter laws, so the state run by mages naturally protects the mages. They, however, severely oppress other classes. Bloodless changes of world's order are a holy grail of the revolutionary thinking, but in practice rarely happened, particularly on behalf of a tiny minority, that in all likelihood made scapegoats in popular imagination during the lean times. "Bloodless changes of world's order are a holy grail of the revolutionary thinking" – I like you!
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 21:52:14 GMT
Okay, I came up with a political scenario to apply pressure on Kirkwall elite to grant Appostates the desired status, but for that Anders would have required a strong Mage cell willing to take risks and a buy-in from Orsino. Given the common enough knowledge that Qunari have explosives and their religious differences with the Chantry, it is conceivable to place the blame for the blast on the Qunari. Given the poor showing from Templars, thanks to Meridith, and should Anders been capable to mobilize his coconspirators for genuine humanitarian work to repair the damage, with Hawke's support, the pressure could have been applied for protecting the mages under Kirkwall's city charter and abolishing the Circle there. However, wider political implications might have been dire. I don't think it's in character for Anders to attempt a coup like that.
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Post by Rascoth on May 9, 2017 9:45:08 GMT
I really need to - one of these days - sit down and read this thread In a meantime, here's what I currently use as my wallpaper :dirty: LINK
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Post by Catilina on May 9, 2017 10:14:00 GMT
I really need to - one of these days - sit down and read this thread In a meantime, here's what I currently use as my wallpaper :dirty: LINKGreat picture, ty! Other recommended: Justice
And young Karl and Anders: source
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Post by Rascoth on May 9, 2017 11:48:42 GMT
2 pages! That's easier than reading 71, heh. Really interesting read, thanks for link
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Post by Sah291 on May 9, 2017 12:45:01 GMT
I wonder if there is any point in trying to end oppression peacefully. The Chantry and world leaders in general will never lift a finger to help mages or elves unless they are forced to. I think, at that point, no...they had let things escalate for so long, and Meredith was intentionally escalating things by cracking down on the Circle, I think she knew perfectly well what it would lead to. She was just counting on having the upper hand when things went south. But if Hawke was pro mage, and managed to both earn some good will with the nobility and the people of Kirkwall, which he/she does after dealing with the Qunari situation, there is evidence attitudes were starting to change around Kirkwall. If you click to talk to the nobles at the beginning of Act 3, they suggest they are softening on mage issues and want to support Hawke. But the local Chantry/Templars have a hold on the political situation there, and even had Hawke succeeded in gaining power in Kirkwall, the Chantry would have opposed it and sent in outside forces, or threatened exalted march. Especially if Hawke was a mage. Now after DAI, we know there were elements of the Chantry that supported more freedom for mages, including the Divine herself, but she was up against thousands of years of tradition and had plenty of opposition. Best case scenario in DAI, with a softened Leliana as Divine, it was only possible since most of the leadership had been lost and there was a powerfull organization backing her (the Inquisition). And even then, some groups still wanted to bring the Circle system back, so the tensions between Chantry loyalist mages and independent mages remain. Add to the fact that none of the societies in DA we have seen so far are even the slightest bit democratic, or have any concept of religious freedom to speak of. Tevinter appears to be modeled after ancient Rome, but imperial Rome, not Republic..so it's great, if you are a wealthy mage there, but kind of crap if you aren't a mage, or a mage from a lower class family without a good lineage. They still have Circles. They are just prestigious universities there, and probably very exclusive too. The situation with Fenris' sister suggests she would have had little opportunity to train her magic independently, so I would imagine that is typical for mages who aren't already from upper class families there. I bet they would probably have plenty of underground societies/ schools though, unofficially (the Venatori being just one of them).
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 14:28:08 GMT
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Post by Sah291 on May 9, 2017 14:36:20 GMT
Haha it's not an argument, many of us liked both...though I personally liked DA2 version more, because I also liked Justice a lot (probably more than DAO Anders).
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 14:38:45 GMT
Haha it's not an argument, many of us liked both...though I personally liked DA2 version more, because I also liked Justice a lot (probably more than DAO Anders). I liked Justice and Anders as seperate characters very much (especially their dialogues among themselves and with Nathaniel), but their merging just didn't work for me
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Post by Sah291 on May 9, 2017 14:47:26 GMT
Haha it's not an argument, many of us liked both...though I personally liked DA2 version more, because I also liked Justice a lot (probably more than DAO Anders). I liked Justice and Anders as seperate characters very much (especially their dialogues among themselves and with Nathaniel), but their merging just didn't work for me I did like them both separately too, but Justice would have needed a new body eventually and the idea of spirit possession and magic in Dragon Age is interesting to me, so I liked the merging idea. Although after DAI, I now wonder if Justice could have eventually willed himself a physical body, similair to the way Cole did, had he known that was possible. He doesn't appear to know it's possible though, and thinks he will just die if he can't return to the fade, so it was his only option.
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