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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 10, 2019 21:30:09 GMT
The way powers worked in ME3. It was smooth and when you pulled up the "power wheel" you could use you squads power. Also the gun play in andromeda was horrible in my opinion. What I mean is it took forever to kill even weak enemies. It wasn't that it was hard but it was tedious since even a head shot with a powerful sniper rifle wouldn't kill anyone but the weakest foe. ME3 felt alot more "realistic" for lack of a better word and fluid. This is one of my biggest complaints about MEA. Also I miss how the power wheel would pause the game and that helped encourage you to use your squads powers.
Another thing is classes. I missed it. It felt more comfortable since if you were an infiltrator for example you would map out your powers and get comfortable with it. In MEA you had to change it up and I just couldn't get really comfortable with the controls. Plus it helped with the RPG story element in my opinion. So please bioware bring back classes and the ME3 style combat.
What do you think
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 22:07:56 GMT
Another thing is classes. I missed it. It felt more comfortable since if you were an infiltrator for example you would map out your powers and get comfortable with it. In MEA you had to change it up and I just couldn't get really comfortable with the controls. Plus it helped with the RPG story element in my opinion. So please bioware bring back classes and the ME3 style combat.
What do you think
I think you're misrepresenting ME:A. You were never forced to change it up in ME:A. You could limit your assignment of skills points to one area (tech, biotic, or combat) and construct multiple different favorite combos of 3 powers based on only that skill tree. Passive powers (of which there were 3) from that skill set were always in effect. So, sticking with one combo set in ME:A was essentially the same as working with the one set of powers you had available for your class in ME3 (6 powers in active use at a time). In addition, switching to another combo set (favorite) using the same base (say, infiltrator) only resulted in a slightly extended cooldown... so you could access more of your single powers on the fly than just 3 and still stay within a single old "class."... or, if you wanted, you could switch among different classes. This meant I could sample other combo sets without having to go back and start another game with a different class. In a pinch, you could even map new powers driectly from the skill tree mid-combat (and the combat would pause just as it did when you pulled up the power wheal, you just couldn't aim while paused)... so you actually had access to ALL the powers to which you had assigned skill points at any time... or, as I said, you could simply refrain from changing around. Your choice... not a "you had to change" at all. It's a far more flexible system and I would not want to go back to the old class system now.
I did miss being able to individually direct the squad to use certain powers at specific times and I would like to see that return. However, it was not significantly different from playing the OT with squad powers on Active... except the ME:A AI was smarter so the squad wouldn't blow through all their powers at once the moment a battle started (like they did in ME1).
As for the guns... they were certainly superior to ME1. where we had a choice between just plain awful and then Spectre gear. In ME:A, there were many ways the DPS of any of the guns could be improved, not only by augmenting the gun differently but also based on what skill choices you made. We could, if we wanted, make any gun one that shot infinite ammo. The Isharay with a VHS and spec'd for additional damage is a superior one shot one kill weapon to any in ME3. I've also played an entire ME:A game on insanity using ONLY the Black Widow and the infiltrator tech skills of tactical cloak, incinerate, and energy drain... and I had no difficulty taking down larger enemies (e.g. hydras, destroyers, and fiends) in a reasonably short amount of time. It did NOT
As with any game, you just have to spend some time learning the system to maximize it. Instead, you seem to be bent on just exaggerating about the difficulties you had adapting to it.
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 11, 2019 0:01:59 GMT
As for cooldowns, I have a bit of mixed feelings about it. For now though, I prefer individual cooldowns (ME1, Andromeda) to global cooldowns (ME2/3). I think ultimately it works best for doing combos, and at the same time you gotta use them tactically.
Classes, hell yeah bring those back. Don't understand why people can't adapt to the class they picked. There's little replayability if I can use every power I want whenever I want and whenever it suits me. What the hell happened? how people got so scared to deal with the situation presented to them in each level, because their character is built for something else? well, that's what classes are for. You can't be good at everything, I don't see the issue. That's the basic of an RPG.
Gunplay. Honestly at times I prefer ME2's over all the others, because it was the better balanced one (hard to go wrong when there're not that many guns to begin with). Each gun was built to deal with different situations, they all worked and were useful. But for shooty purposes (recoil, and overall gunplay feeling) I'd go with Andromeda, I agree it sucked though because of the piss-poor balance and how everything was a pea-shooter with exception of a handful of selected guns.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 0:36:14 GMT
As for cooldowns, I have a bit of mixed feelings about it. For now though, I prefer individual cooldowns (ME1, Andromeda) to global cooldowns (ME2/3). I think ultimately it works best for doing combos, and at the same time you gotta use them tactically. Classes, hell yeah bring those back. Don't understand why people can't adapt to the class they picked. There's little replayability if I can use every power I want whenever I want and whenever it suits me. What the hell happened? how people got so scared to deal with the situation presented to them in each level, because their character is built for something else? well, that's what classes are for. You can't be good at everything, I don't see the issue. That's the basic of an RPG. Gunplay. Honestly at times I prefer ME2's over all the others, because it was the better balanced one (hard to go wrong when there're not that many guns to begin with). Each gun was built to deal with different situations, they all worked and were useful. But for shooty purposes (recoil, and overall gunplay feeling) I'd go with Andromeda, I agree it sucked though because of the piss-poor balance and how everything was a pea-shooter with exception of a handful of selected guns. So, you liked having to start a new game each time you wanted to try out a different class. You couldn't even change class from doing a first game to a new game plus.
If people want to play a whole game as a single class in ME:A, they can... just don't switch profiles around. Don't want all powers available to you, just don't put skill points into them. Create all your profile favorites from the same class and run with that. It's your choice. Why can't people develop some discipline when playing their own games instead of always seeking to limit what others can do? Being able to change profiles, doesn't mean you HAVE to and, therefore, it doesn't limit replayability... it enhances it... because you can, IF YOU WISH, try out a whole host of different combinations that were just not available in the OT.
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Post by KrrKs on Mar 11, 2019 20:19:59 GMT
[...] There's little replayability if I can use every power I want whenever I want and whenever it suits me. How does the ability to use every power permutation possible offer less re-playability when compared to having only six options?
Like UpUp said, just limit your active powers used to a specific set or something if the choice bothers you. Then you basically have a fixed class. But the added flexibility that you can still decide differently, when you wan to try something else. IMO the classless system in ME:A was a huge step forward from the trilogy. Choice > No choice.
I now played three characters through ME:A, two where originally sentinels, one a vanguard. The last two both used a Katana and Singularity. And none of them played the same! Compare that to the Shepard trilogy, especially ME1 and 2(the worst offender in that regard), where there are about two different ways for how combat works!
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 11, 2019 22:22:50 GMT
I did prefer the class system, I can see why they did it given how few people replay.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 12, 2019 5:50:13 GMT
I agree with most of that.
Classes: All powers led to a mush character tons of passives to build up the bases and then most people just used their 3 powers and never changed them I expect especially given how crap the system was for changing powers. It overall was a much worse system IMO. That being said I don't necessarily think they needed defined classes. They could have had something more free form, like pick one class power(generally the ones that needed 9 points to unlock), 4 additional powers and 3 passives.
I vastly preferred global cool downs, though not at ME3 200% super fast levels. I think global cool downs are a good limit so you have to think about your powers use more. With individual cooldowns if using a power was a bust you still have 2 more get out of jail free cards in the mix.And I think having to get the timing down for combos as opposed to them being guaranteed is good. Though honestly I'm not a fan of the everything combos system from ME3. I'd prefer a more specific set of combos, not Magicka level but a solid group of them.
Though access to more powers was good and some of the power changes were solid like singularity using ME3mp model of priming those in the area of effect even when their shields are up, great choice. Without it, I did my adept runs in ME3 with almost never using my class defining power (also a couple fun powers were missed) Changing ammo powers to ammo and just adding some new combat powers, great choice.
Squad powers and wheel, definitely was missed.
Guns, I think the guns felt better in ME3 overall. If you really learned the system in MEA a couple specific combinations got close or better at certain levels. But having to master a fairly complicated and poorly explained research and development system in combination with needing to know how to maximize it from dozens of powers to kind of hit a sweet spot isn't great design IMO. The out of box gun play should have been much more solid.
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Post by tatann on Mar 12, 2019 11:58:12 GMT
The way powers worked in ME3. It was smooth and when you pulled up the "power wheel" you could use you squads power. Also the gun play in andromeda was horrible in my opinion. What I mean is it took forever to kill even weak enemies. It wasn't that it was hard but it was tedious since even a head shot with a powerful sniper rifle wouldn't kill anyone but the weakest foe. ME3 felt alot more "realistic" for lack of a better word and fluid. This is one of my biggest complaints about MEA. Also I miss how the power wheel would pause the game and that helped encourage you to use your squads powers.
Another thing is classes. I missed it. It felt more comfortable since if you were an infiltrator for example you would map out your powers and get comfortable with it. In MEA you had to change it up and I just couldn't get really comfortable with the controls. Plus it helped with the RPG story element in my opinion. So please bioware bring back classes and the ME3 style combat.
What do you think
I feel a bit different about enemies "bullet sponging" : yes, I prefer the power system from ME3, and powers felt more, well, powerful in ME3, but on the other hand MEA is the only ME I played in hardcore instead of normal, because in normal difficulty enemies were shredded too quickly And that was the case for my 2 playthroughs, as a soldier (so mostly gun oriented) and as a biotic (so mostly power oriented) Although for the biotic, I used the "MP powers in SP" to gain access to Warp, and Singularity/Double Warp/Double Throw is a bit broken ^^
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 12, 2019 17:19:03 GMT
Oh any of the 3 originals had superior gameplay.
You had more than 3 abilities to use, you didn't have an asanine auto cover in place (it's a button push, it's lazy on the devs part and the players part), the mod setup in 3 actually made sense and more importantly it actually worked.
The hard to kill enemies would be more to do with weak weapons and devs assuming we like to kill bullet sponges, no disagreement on another asanine design choice.
Classes are also a big one, I get they tried to do the Skyrim approach to let people do everything but it then nullifies any meaning to how you're setup, there's no punishment for screwing a build up cause you can fix it right up, it essentially handholds.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 28, 2019 18:14:49 GMT
Ugh, the profile system was worse than useless. Putting everything on cooldown made the "You can have any power you want!" aspect a complete waste of time. Just pick a primer, a detonator, and a defensive power. There was no room for anything else thanks to "streamlining"
And using the profiles to "experiment"? HAH! Okay, go ahead and gimp yourself by equipping a brand new power 20 or so levels into a game where everything levels with you. Doing so in NG+? Heh, good luck.
Combat just a lot of button-mashing. No strategy or tactics beyond "find cover"
I'd happily take the system from any of the previous Mass Effect games over what MEA had. Yes, that includes ME1.
Classless systems can work. I've played games where it does. MEA isn't it. And not just because Ryder magically becomes biotic or not as needed.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 28, 2019 22:23:16 GMT
Ugh, the profile system was worse than useless. Putting everything on cooldown made the "You can have any power you want!" aspect a complete waste of time. Just pick a primer, a detonator, and a defensive power. There was no room for anything else thanks to "streamlining" Of course, a sensible player won't switch profiles until everything's on cooldown anyway. But by 20 or so levels in, your first three powers are going to be nearly maxed out anyway. Gotta put the points someplace. Depends on how much you're throwing into passives, though -- some builds might not reach this point for a few more levels. As for experimenting, respeccing is free, isn't it? Screwing up a build wasn't a thing in ME3 either. Actually, it never was a thing, since you couldn't really do it in ME1 or ME2 unless you were trying.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 0:02:21 GMT
Ugh, the profile system was worse than useless. Putting everything on cooldown made the "You can have any power you want!" aspect a complete waste of time. Just pick a primer, a detonator, and a defensive power. There was no room for anything else thanks to "streamlining" And using the profiles to "experiment"? HAH! Okay, go ahead and gimp yourself by equipping a brand new power 20 or so levels into a game where everything levels with you. Doing so in NG+? Heh, good luck. Combat just a lot of button-mashing. No strategy or tactics beyond "find cover" I'd happily take the system from any of the previous Mass Effect games over what MEA had. Yes, that includes ME1. Classless systems can work. I've played games where it does. MEA isn't it. And not just because Ryder magically becomes biotic or not as needed. As alanc9 said, the best time to switch profiles is right after you've tossed your load in the old profile and everything is still on cooldown anyways. The cooldowns are short, so it's really not a handicap. If you discount the passives and ammo powers in the OT classes, you really only had 5 powers (at most - adept class) in ME2/3. ME2 had global cooldown, so if you used one, you had to wait to use another of power of your own... and those cooldowns were very nearly as long as the cooldown for switching profiles in ME:A.
As was also said, respec'ing in free, so your second point is utter garbage. It just means you don't have to actually start a new playthrough to change class (which was the case in ME2/ME3)
As far as being strategic, that comes with the ability to use and control your squad's powers as though they were your own... Talk about "magic" - in any of the ME games, I could tell a squad mate to hang back out of sight and STILL nail the enemies with all their powers as well as my own. A "strategy" in the OT was to do exactly that - keep the squad members alive by having them stay in cover at the back of the field and then unleash their powers on everyone. In ME3 in particular, it was a completely OP strategy because of all the combos and short cooldowns and the "hallway with cover" layout of a lot of the battlefields. At least in ME:A, the squaddie had to be allowed to get into the action in order for them to use their own powers. As a result, you were actually essentially "classless" in ME2 and ME3 since your squad mate's powers were all, in effect, your own.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 29, 2019 15:31:37 GMT
Ugh, the profile system was worse than useless. Putting everything on cooldown made the "You can have any power you want!" aspect a complete waste of time. Just pick a primer, a detonator, and a defensive power. There was no room for anything else thanks to "streamlining" Of course, a sensible player won't switch profiles until everything's on cooldown anyway. But by 20 or so levels in, your first three powers are going to be nearly maxed out anyway. Gotta put the points someplace. Depends on how much you're throwing into passives, though -- some builds might not reach this point for a few more levels. As for experimenting, respeccing is free, isn't it? Screwing up a build wasn't a thing in ME3 either. Actually, it never was a thing, since you couldn't really do it in ME1 or ME2 unless you were trying. So the option is, let my powers of cooldown recharge, or switch profiles and...wait for them to recharge. Oh, yeah that's TOTALLY worth it! "Gotta put points in someplace" is idiotic. Your opponents are just going to get more powerful and be even bigger bullet sponges. Yet we are stuck with three powers plus whatever passives we might find useful. We plateau even as the enemies grow stronger. And I have heard experimenting as an excuse for swapping profiles. Which is, as I said, stupid, unless you really want to gimp yourself to show how l33t your sk1llz are.
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Post by monk on Mar 29, 2019 17:55:27 GMT
Actually, I'm not sure at what point you stopped playing. But for SP, Ryder doesn't Plateau anymore with regards to enemy targets unless you go past the maximum "normal" level (120-130). So enemies aren't really as much of a Bullet Sponge as they used to be (on release). This was changed in a patch at some point so you may not be aware of that if you left early on.
In short, continued changes made MEA more "correct" to older ME Game standards. It's just unfortunate that EA/Bioware dropped further development to correct things further.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 29, 2019 18:05:48 GMT
I'd like the pause/slow down functionality and squad mate control back. Also, I found weapons in ME2/3 felt better (though it's actually tough to my finger on why exactly) and IMO there was more usable variety. In ME:A. for all practical purposes, there are a few guns that are much more powerful than the rest and since you are always better off crafting your stuff, I always end up crafting the best gear I can than keep that for 10-20 levels until I can craft a better version of the same gear. My advice would be to get rid of the crafting system alltogether and go back to a much more curated loot system like in ME3.
Otherwise, I don't really care that much, I am fine with classes or the open system of ME:A either way. also liked ME:A's movement and cover system, that worked pretty well. So maybe a mix of the old and new style would be in order.
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Post by monk on Mar 29, 2019 18:17:44 GMT
I think part of the issue with Andromedas weapons, was that there was some fundemental combat changes that impacted on weapons unintentionally, and subsequently made it more bland than it should have been. Primarily I'm talking about the Armour issue. In the OT, this was circumvented via various means including mods. In Andromeda, the only way to circumvent it is via powers, making it seem that Armoured enemies were much more bullet sponges than they really should have been. But as I suggested earlier on, I felt that as MEA went on via the patches released, things were starting to appear more traditional ME, but it's a shame a full realisation couldn't be done before it was shut down.
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Post by KrrKs on Mar 29, 2019 20:22:00 GMT
And I have heard experimenting as an excuse for swapping profiles. Which is, as I said, stupid, unless you really want to gimp yourself to show how l33t your sk1llz are. What exactly is stupid in being able to try out new builds without having to start a new game?
Especially if the alternative means not only having to start a new game for each build tried, but also that this new game has to be played for several hours before an informed decision about the effectiveness or likeability of that build can be made?
ME:A is the first ME game that allows players to try several completely different builds within less than a minute! And I love that freedom personally!
The profile system also allows to switch between a usual build and an instantly available 'oh shit'- grendade/power cell build for instant help when the other powers are on cooldown. It also allows to run several more specialized builds at the same time, and switch between offensive, defensive, or mobility (or anything else, really) focused abilities on the fly. Sure, those are not going to as strong as if they were if all points were put into a single one of them, but having several different specializations at hand can also be a great asset. Or one may just use the profiles to change stuff once in a while.
I don't use it often, but when I do this is extremely fun and helpful.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 29, 2019 20:52:19 GMT
Of course, a sensible player won't switch profiles until everything's on cooldown anyway. But by 20 or so levels in, your first three powers are going to be nearly maxed out anyway. Gotta put the points someplace. Depends on how much you're throwing into passives, though -- some builds might not reach this point for a few more levels. As for experimenting, respeccing is free, isn't it? Screwing up a build wasn't a thing in ME3 either. Actually, it never was a thing, since you couldn't really do it in ME1 or ME2 unless you were trying. So the option is, let my powers of cooldown recharge, or switch profiles and...wait for them to recharge. Oh, yeah that's TOTALLY worth it! You get the same three powers on cooldown either way. Switching profiles isn't designed to let you bypass that. Not liking the three-cooldown limit is reasonable, but it's got nothing to do with the number of powers available. Did you complain about ME2's unified cooldown too? I can't recall. I didn't mind, since I wasn't a huge fan of ME1's power cycling. Does scaling work from levels, or from points spent? My impression was that it's the former, just because it's simpler to code. So not spending the points won't help you, unless you've found some way to play without earning XP. Honestly, I haven't seen this plateauing thing you're talking about. What level does it kick in? (IIRC it actually was a thing in ME1, which rises a little bit in difficulty after level 50 or so, but by that point you should be able to keep enemies stunlocked most of the time anyway.)
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Post by KrrKs on Mar 30, 2019 15:33:28 GMT
"Gotta put points in someplace" is idiotic. Your opponents are just going to get more powerful and be even bigger bullet sponges. Yet we are stuck with three powers plus whatever passives we might find useful. We plateau even as the enemies grow stronger. And I have heard experimenting as an excuse for swapping profiles. Which is, as I said, stupid, unless you really want to gimp yourself to show how l33t your sk1llz are. Does scaling work from levels, or from points spent? My impression was that it's the former, just because it's simpler to code. So not spending the points won't help you, unless you've found some way to play without earning XP. Honestly, I haven't seen this plateauing thing you're talking about. What level does it kick in? (IIRC it actually was a thing in ME1, which rises a little bit in difficulty after level 50 or so, but by that point you should be able to keep enemies stunlocked most of the time anyway.)
And Iakus is right in that plateuing is definitely possible, if speccing into skills or evolutions not directly helping with combat. This can happen most noticeably around lvl 15, but can creep very slowly even later on. Though at around level 30 this should become a non issue, as at that point Ryder has more skill points than directly needed and enough materials to craft optimized gear.
Little anecdote from my last playthrough: I decided to use three debuff skills as primary active skills. Two of those did nothing suitable or noticeable between ranks 2 to 5 for that close range shotgunner I played. So level 13 and 14 on Eos where absolute hell. At that point the profile system proofed absolutely great, as a Sentinel with rank 1 Energy Drain added so much more survivability compared to the Explorer with Recon Visor 3 I had equipped when using the main profile.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 31, 2019 19:24:11 GMT
I thought level 30 or so was what we were talking about, actually.
Since bringing a new ability to level 3 costs the same number of points as bringing an existing ability from level 5 to level 6, I've found that I like bringing up new powers before I've got everything in my primary profile maxed.
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Post by brfritos on Mar 31, 2019 23:13:17 GMT
As for the guns... they were certainly superior to ME1. where we had a choice between just plain awful and then Spectre gear...
Not true. The problem with ME1 weapons and equipment is that damn threshold of equipment availability.
I did a number of playthroughs where I restricted myself from using Spectre Master Gear.
Rosenkov, Kassa and Armax have some very good weapons and armor choices. And like ME3, the mods you install on weapons are sometimes more important than the weapon itself.
But it's bad balanced, not questioning this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 23:41:50 GMT
As for the guns... they were certainly superior to ME1. where we had a choice between just plain awful and then Spectre gear...
Not true. The problem with ME1 weapons and equipment is that damn threshold of equipment availability.
I did a number of playthroughs where I restricted myself from using Spectre Master Gear.
Rosenkov, Kassa and Armax have some very good weapons and armor choices. And like ME3, the mods you install on weapons are sometimes more important than the weapon itself.
But it's bad balanced, not questioning this.
I'll add an "in my opinion" then. I've used a number of the other weapons in ME1... it was the difference in the overheating threshold that I noticed the most. The spectre gear weapons would fire continuously with a frictionless materials mod installed with virtually any ammo mod except the high explosive rounds. None of the other weapons I used even came close to that. The downside is that it takes some effort/thought to consider using powers when you know that you can essentially just walk in and start firing your AR or pistol continuously and clear the room of everything. On insanity, because the enemies can spam immunities which turns them into bullet sponges, it just takes a little longer.
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Post by 10k on Apr 5, 2019 21:10:10 GMT
Here's what I think. First bring back classes. In Andromeda all you had to do was pick the most powerful abilities. There was no balance at all, and no replayability. Previous games had balances for classes, which made using squadmates more useful. Example: as a Vanguard it was always a good idea for me to bring squadmates that could deal with shields or armor better than I could i.e Miranda, Thane, and Garrus were my prime squaddies. In Andromeda squadmates were useless because I could just switch my loadout of powers. Or find the best combination of powers.
Second, this is just something I want personally, get rid of nova because it's OP. Playing vanguard was more fun without it in ME2, I'll trade it for Annihilation field.
Lastly, as for gameplay, if I had to pick which combat system to use again I'd choose ME3 with some tweaks. Andromeda combat was smooth mechanically. But the jetpack and hoovering feature just felt gimmicky. Also for cooldowns, keep them global unless they are different powers. Example: If I use a biotic ability all my biotics should be in cooldown, but not my tech abilities. It just makes more sense this way.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 5, 2019 22:08:29 GMT
Really? I've found plenty of ME:A builds to be viable, in different ways.
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Post by traks on Apr 7, 2019 15:47:49 GMT
No. The gameplay in Andromeda was for me the best in the series. A great further development of the ME3MP style. A very good system for real-time gameplay. Fun, fluid and variable.
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