correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 22, 2019 20:26:31 GMT
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 20:30:22 GMT
😀 Jazz really likes his bizarre straw men but this one is a real priiiize. 😎 Yeah, it's an odd obsession... And, just to put the whole "DAI" vs "TW3" thing to bed, DAI was released in Nov 2014 because it was ready to be released at that time and TW3 was not. Even when it was released, TW3 was still buggy as fuck in some instances but that was glossed over a lot - loading screen issues, missing NPCs, quests that didn't initiate or conclude, invincible enemies are the ones I encountered. It was a good game but not a perfect launch but some peeps kneeled down and absolutely wide-mouthed the CDProjektRed Rocket to the point of absurdity. There are certainly things I hope BioWare takes notice of in the TW3 with regards to DA4's development but it really shouldn't try to emulate it over all. This is completely delusional. Yes, TW3 had bugs at launch, but it was still getting perfect scores left and right and was adored by fans. Even though I loved DAI (and still do), its reception at launch was not even remotely comparable. DAI could not have competed with it for GOTY.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2019 20:34:50 GMT
Yeah, it's an odd obsession... And, just to put the whole "DAI" vs "TW3" thing to bed, DAI was released in Nov 2014 because it was ready to be released at that time and TW3 was not. Even when it was released, TW3 was still buggy as fuck in some instances but that was glossed over a lot - loading screen issues, missing NPCs, quests that didn't initiate or conclude, invincible enemies are the ones I encountered. It was a good game but not a perfect launch but some peeps kneeled down and absolutely wide-mouthed the CDProjektRed Rocket to the point of absurdity. There are certainly things I hope BioWare takes notice of in the TW3 with regards to DA4's development but it really shouldn't try to emulate it over all. This is completely delusional. Yes, TW3 had bugs at launch, but it was still getting perfect scores left and right and was adored by fans. Even though I loved DAI (and still do), its reception at launch was not even remotely comparable. DAI could not have competed with it for GOTY. The Witcher 3 on PS4 had a metacritic score of 92, Dragon Age Inquistion had a 89 on PS4...and both were adored by fans...pretty comparable The differences are overblown...you can think what you want, I have enough experience with both to form my own opinion
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Mar 22, 2019 20:45:19 GMT
But at the same time. For both games it boils down to a question of how long do you give people, Bioware had five or six years for both of these games. The released product should not have been what it was in either case. Anthem has been out a month and the product isn't to the point I think it should have been for release. So how long is too long to give the developer? For "ME:A", patch 1.05 released 04/04/2017 fixed the majority of the animations issues that got it memed to death through the EA Access trial. We are talking the "Addison Face" issues, "Cora's Gorilla Walk", Lexi raised eyes, fappy lips, "x" animation skip option in Galaxy Map, new Tempest arrival animations, and overall improvements to stability and bugginess. Some quality of life improvements, including some new content (Jaal's romance additions and Ryder Casual Wear) came later through patch 1.10 at the end of July but this is where a lot of people started to see a big difference between Early Access and post-release...that's two weeks from 03/21/2017. Does it mean high-80's metacritic like DAI? Not likely, but an 80-82 is entirely possible as reviewers could play the game with less obvious animation issues and bugginess and they could skip the long Galaxy Map animations. "Anthem" should have been a holiday 2019 release but, like you said in other posts, the right thing accounting-wise is to release as projected then adjust. Still, you are hoping that EA and BioWare are looking at both of these releases in terms of plans for DA4, which is why the rumor of a 2022 release may have some weight to it. I don't think the issue was necessarily time. Five and six years are enough time to make a quality game. So what went wrong? Was is a lack of initial vision? Was it changing visions during the process? Or more so, taking too long to realize the initial vision wasn't viable. Is it the engine they're trying to use? I've said before, I've always thought the issue was with management, not time. I'm worried about the game being a SP live services game. DA:I was a solid game with solid DLC. But the purpose of a Live service game in generating money over a longer period. I don't want the core story given out piecemeal to the point where the base game doesn't feel complete. That's my biggest worry along with them just not being able to make a game the way they want on Frostbite.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 22, 2019 20:55:25 GMT
Ahoy, matey. Black sails on the horizon again ☠ Only entitled folks take to pirating over something like that. Sure. It is called sending a message. My bet is that 30% of people who have pirated Metro have done so with zero intention of ever playing the game. Their abuse of the Steam community in advertising the game and then yanking it for Epic is dirty pool. You are always the industry advocate, and always anti-consumer. You think the industry should be entitled. Holy facepalm.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 20:56:46 GMT
This is completely delusional. Yes, TW3 had bugs at launch, but it was still getting perfect scores left and right and was adored by fans. Even though I loved DAI (and still do), its reception at launch was not even remotely comparable. DAI could not have competed with it for GOTY. The Witcher 3 on PS4 had a metacritic score of 92, Dragon Age Inquistion had a 89 on PS4...and both were adored by fans...pretty comparable The differences are overblown...you can think what you want, I have enough experience with both to form my own opinion I'm well aware there's no convincing you, but for anyone else following along, let's keep the facts straight. DAI had an 85 metascore on both PC and XBone. Witcher 3 had 9.3 and 9.1 on those platforms, respectively. User scores also differ substantially in favor of TW3. My personal view is that they're closer than the scores suggest as well, but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about.
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Post by aglomeracja on Mar 22, 2019 21:05:17 GMT
DA:I was a very average game. It had really clunky gameplay, loads of MMO quality quests and (IMO) very repetitive and underwhelming combat. It has pretty good lore, characters and dialogue, so it's still worth playing, but it's nowhere near TW3's quality.
Also, bugs don't really matter that much in an RPG, even if they might be annoying. No amount of bugfixes would make MEA a good Mass Effect game.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2019 21:06:49 GMT
For "ME:A", patch 1.05 released 04/04/2017 fixed the majority of the animations issues that got it memed to death through the EA Access trial. We are talking the "Addison Face" issues, "Cora's Gorilla Walk", Lexi raised eyes, fappy lips, "x" animation skip option in Galaxy Map, new Tempest arrival animations, and overall improvements to stability and bugginess. Some quality of life improvements, including some new content (Jaal's romance additions and Ryder Casual Wear) came later through patch 1.10 at the end of July but this is where a lot of people started to see a big difference between Early Access and post-release...that's two weeks from 03/21/2017. Does it mean high-80's metacritic like DAI? Not likely, but an 80-82 is entirely possible as reviewers could play the game with less obvious animation issues and bugginess and they could skip the long Galaxy Map animations. "Anthem" should have been a holiday 2019 release but, like you said in other posts, the right thing accounting-wise is to release as projected then adjust. Still, you are hoping that EA and BioWare are looking at both of these releases in terms of plans for DA4, which is why the rumor of a 2022 release may have some weight to it. I don't think the issue was necessarily time. Five and six years are enough time to make a quality game. So what went wrong? Was is a lack of initial vision? Was it changing visions during the process? Or more so, taking too long to realize the initial vision wasn't viable. Is it the engine they're trying to use? I've said before, I've always thought the issue was with management, not time. I'm worried about the game being a SP live services game. DA:I was a solid game with solid DLC. But the purpose of a Live service game in generating money over a longer period. I don't want the core story given out piecemeal to the point where the base game doesn't feel complete. That's my biggest worry along with them just not being able to make a game the way they want on Frostbite. The timeline I'm most curious about is 2015, right after DAI's launch. BioWare is riding high and seems to have its shit together...so, what changed? ME:A had a troubled development and seems Anthem had a similar trajectory under Aaryn Flynn. I wonder if Casey coming on in July 2017 was essentially a mirror of what happened when Mac Walters was brought on to bring in ME:A to ship in around 18 months.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 22, 2019 21:12:34 GMT
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 22, 2019 21:15:15 GMT
Point me where I ever said Anthem has competition in February or will sell poorly at launch? Check my comments even before the game launched. Even then I was pointing out there is no competition until TD 2 launches and the marketing is strong enough to bring good sales at start. Check up and then come back to me with your claims about new narrative. Well the narrative from the "skeptics" used to be that Anthem was dead on arrival because of Apex legends. Now it seems that Apex doesn't exist any more. 😎 Go figure. I to always stated that the true success of Anthem will be how it holds up in late 2019 due to its nature as a GaaS and I still stick with that claim. As 2019 fills out, lets revisit this and see how well Anthem holds up in terms of player retention.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 22, 2019 21:35:02 GMT
I don't think the issue was necessarily time. Five and six years are enough time to make a quality game. So what went wrong? Was is a lack of initial vision? Was it changing visions during the process? Or more so, taking too long to realize the initial vision wasn't viable. Is it the engine they're trying to use? I've said before, I've always thought the issue was with management, not time. I'm worried about the game being a SP live services game. DA:I was a solid game with solid DLC. But the purpose of a Live service game in generating money over a longer period. I don't want the core story given out piecemeal to the point where the base game doesn't feel complete. That's my biggest worry along with them just not being able to make a game the way they want on Frostbite. The timeline I'm most curious about is 2015, right after DAI's launch. BioWare is riding high and seems to have its shit together...so, what changed? ME:A had a troubled development and seems Anthem had a similar trajectory under Aaryn Flynn. I wonder if Casey coming on in July 2017 was essentially a mirror of what happened when Mac Walters was brought on to bring in ME:A to ship in around 18 months. This is the interesting portion of the timeline, but for me the "shit together" part was a bit of an exaggeration... DAI had amazing reviews, but you never would have known it on BSN prime as many of us were disappointed in it from day one. The KBM controls alone filled at least a page of complaint threads. DAI, financially, was a zenith for them. From an infrastructure standpoint, it was a wobbly house of cards ready to topple as evidenced by their subsequent releases.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2019 21:40:21 GMT
Only entitled folks take to pirating over something like that. Sure. It is called sending a message. My bet is that 30% of people who have pirated Metro have done so with zero intention of ever playing the game. Their abuse of the Steam community in advertising the game and then yanking it for Epic is dirty pool. You are always the industry advocate, and always anti-consumer. You think the industry should be entitled. Holy facepalm. You really suck at sending messages then. Here is the problem: Metro making a business decision to accept money from Epic due to the policies Steam has (which is borderline monopolistic) in regards to their cut of the profits is all fair game. There is no "dirty pool" here, there is no abuse of the "Steam Community" on the behest of 4A Games unless you count the fact that Steam iself didn't turn away further purchases or pre-orders (as the exclusive deal is for one year only). All the piracy is going to do is lead us to 2000' level of PC gaming, worst case scenario. You don't want to go back to that since PC gaming in the 2000' sucked compared to the late 2000's and late 1990s. So yeah, folks threatening a boycott and piracy over a game, whether they planned on playing it or not, is stupid, and the reasons are entitlement on the behest of folks who don't want to download another program on their computer. People clearly have no idea how the industry fucking works if their logic is that. When the Epic store costs players literally no money to run and download, and they offer a 88/12 split for games exclusive to their brand right now, it's no wonder Division 2, Outer Worlds, even indie games jumping at the chance for money and healthier competition over the laissez-faire approach Steam offers. You would also think more of a revenue split in their favor would be a net positive for gamers as well; considering that helps small, mid, and AAA tier games to break even more. And that is the maddening thing to me, folks claim to be aficionados but most have no fucking clue how business, production, design, development, even patching and updates are even done. They don't know their own hobby! No sympathy for that kind of myopic belief. I'm sure I wouldn't come across so "anti-consumer" if the consumers were a bit more intelligent about the industry they pay money to actually functioned, but considering most of the folks who try to argue these points on this forum I won't hold my breath to that being the case.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 22, 2019 21:41:37 GMT
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 22, 2019 21:42:06 GMT
Epic Game Store is abysmally bad for gamers. If you think otherwise, collect your Epic check.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2019 21:46:16 GMT
The timeline I'm most curious about is 2015, right after DAI's launch. BioWare is riding high and seems to have its shit together...so, what changed? ME:A had a troubled development and seems Anthem had a similar trajectory under Aaryn Flynn. I wonder if Casey coming on in July 2017 was essentially a mirror of what happened when Mac Walters was brought on to bring in ME:A to ship in around 18 months. This is the interesting portion of the timeline, but for me the "shit together" part was a bit of an exaggeration... DAI had amazing reviews, but you never would have known it on BSN prime as many of us were disappointed in it from day one. The KBM controls alone filled at least a page of complaint threads. DAI, financially, was a zenith for them. From an infrastructure standpoint, it was a wobbly house of cards ready to topple as evidenced by their subsequent releases. That's ok...someone posted regarding remembering OG BSN on Twitter and Mike Laidlaw posted "Me too. Good fuckin' riddance" so it appears the feeling was mutual Jason Schreier broke down DA:I's woes in his book and ME:A as well in an article that came out in July 2017...the common thread was the difficulty in making the Frostbite engine for RPGs. Obviously, trying to make procedural planets work in ME:A for 3+ and switching animation software mid-development spoke a lot to the chaos around leadership and direction, but, after being given an additional year of development, DA:I shows what can be accomplished if given the time with the right leadership at the helm.
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Post by thats1evildude on Mar 22, 2019 21:46:23 GMT
Eh. Grand Theft Auto V's story campaign got good reviews at launch, but honestly, nobody really remembers it that fondly; in fact, I recall most people burning out pretty quickly on the three sociopaths you had to control.
The dump trucks of cash have come from GTA Online, which was a steaming pile of shit upon release but was eventually developed into the most successful entertainment product of all time.
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Post by saandrig on Mar 22, 2019 21:46:50 GMT
Note to self - don't mention DAI was GoTY 2014. I did it once and didn't get away with it...
As for the Epic Store - do people really enjoy that it saves their PayPal info without even asking? And then in a case of hacked account ( because Epic's security is shit as proven every week) anyone can use your PayPal... I am not going near that store with a 30 foot pole even if they get all the exclusives ever.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 21:46:56 GMT
The timeline I'm most curious about is 2015, right after DAI's launch. BioWare is riding high and seems to have its shit together...so, what changed? ME:A had a troubled development and seems Anthem had a similar trajectory under Aaryn Flynn. I wonder if Casey coming on in July 2017 was essentially a mirror of what happened when Mac Walters was brought on to bring in ME:A to ship in around 18 months. This is the interesting portion of the timeline, but for me the "shit together" part was a bit of an exaggeration... DAI had amazing reviews, but you never would have known it on BSN prime as many of us were disappointed in it from day one. The KBM controls alone filled at least a page of complaint threads. DAI, financially, was a zenith for them. From an infrastructure standpoint, it was a wobbly house of cards ready to topple as evidenced by their subsequent releases. Yeah, for as much as I love DAI SP, there were clear issues under the hood for MP. About a month after launch, Bioware introduced content that contained a devastating glitch that rendered about 1/3 of all games incompletable (a statistic that anthem unfortunately makes appear tame, but was outrageous at the time). It took Bioware forever to even acknowledge the bug, let alone fix it. The MP also had a ton of baffling design decisions and took a very long time to output additional content, and in the end was not supported anywhere near the level of ME3MP. So yeah, there were definitely foundational problems even back then, particularly with the MP.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2019 21:50:39 GMT
Epic Game Store is abysmally bad for gamers. If you think otherwise, collect your Epic check. Thank you for proving my point further. Now go back to the circle jerk you call a skepticism thread where you belong.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 22, 2019 21:53:03 GMT
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 22, 2019 21:53:27 GMT
Here are a few post I made before launch that explained that the true success or failure indicator for Anthem would be how it does months after launch, not purely on how it sold the first few days/weeks: So? Having three at launch is still very limited and will lead players away from the game very quickly. Unless they can add them very fast, this will be a problem. Yup, the achilles heel of Anthem is the endgame. 6-8 months from now we will understand the true state of Anthem. So what if Anthem succeeds? It’s likely because gamers and reviewers find it a good game. Damned if you do damned if you don’t I suspose. I dont fault gamers liking Anthem. Its the precedence that is set if Anthem succeeds. Note, Anthem succeeding depends on how long it can sustain an active player base. Selling hot out of the gate means nothing for a GaaS. Eight months after release when most players are at end game (or Elder Game) is where Anthem will make its money. If November comes and the player count has dropped significantly, then how successful was Anthem? Look, you want Anthem (and by extension EA) to succeed. You can do that. However I hope Anthem fails because of EA and their "agenda". Im sorry, I just cannot support EA. Everything they touch becomes ruined. Their mishandling of the SW license is a prime example. If you want EA to succeed and value their presence within the gaming industry then thats on you. Your point about end game is well made, but for Anthem I think the demo is critical because it sets the tone. We know how Mass Effect Andromeda's hype train was derailed by the Origin / EA Access (my face is tired) trial in the week ahead of launch and before the review embargo dropped when the game was essentially memed to death. There are plenty of people already waiting to carve this game up because 'fuck EA', but what the VIP Demo brings is an audience with skin in the game that paid (or potentially paid) for a preorder or EA subscription. It should be a warmer and more forgiving audience than the Open Demo a week later. If Anthem comes out of the weekend with a generally good press, that's the story it will take into the Open Demo, Early Access, Review launch and game launch. Sure, for the game to have legs it needs to keep doing good stuff, but this is its critical first impression. This is unexplored territory for Bioware (unless you count SWTOR). Their previous games were based on how well they did at launch, as with all other SP games where the bulk of your profits will come within the first weeks of launch. Bioware wasnt expected to see a steady stream of sales for DAI, MEA, ME3, ME2, DA2 etc 8-12 months after launch. Yes DLCs brought people back but it was insignificant in terms of having a boost in sales. EA sees Anthem as a GaaS and for that to be successful, it has to have 2 core traits: 1 - A pathway for monetization post launch 2 - A solid and continuous base of players (to be targeted by the montization) Having a strong launch means nothing if you loose 60%-80% of you players months after launch as they move on to the new shiny toy. So yeah, the demo does set a good 1st impression but if Joe Player is impressed by the demo....buys the game and is still impressed.... beats the game and engages in the vanilla endgame.....maxes endgame and becomes impatient for more endgame and/or refinement for current endgame....then Joe Player stops playing Anthem and finds a new product to resolve his taste....then EA loses out on a person to sell monetization products to. Just another reason why I want Anthem to fail, because GaaS games are not player driven but shareholder driven. But yeah, the demo unlike the Resident Evil demo does not give the full picture of the scope of the game. Why they SHOULD have done was to split the demo in half. One part is an early/midgame demo and the other part is an endgame demo with a maxed out character. So I am not moving the goal post. Just saying what I have always been saying pre launch.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 21:55:23 GMT
Here is the problem: Metro making a business decision to accept money from Epic due to the policies Steam has (which is borderline monopolistic) in regards to their cut of the profits is all fair game. You obviously have no clue what anticompetitive behavior is.
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Post by NotN7 on Mar 22, 2019 21:55:31 GMT
Epic Game Store is abysmally bad for gamers. If you think otherwise, collect your Epic check. Hehe, sorry but I have to jump in here, but I'm a gamer and sorry but I don't use Epic Game store heck I have no clue what it is? so I'm taking a wild guess here its for gamers that have no other option to buy their games or cannot afford to purchase it else ware? (serious question) or is it a social thing?
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therevanchist25
1,741
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 22, 2019 21:58:20 GMT
Epic Game Store is abysmally bad for gamers. If you think otherwise, collect your Epic check. Hehe, sorry but I have to jump in here, but I'm a gamer and sorry but I don't use Epic Game store heck I have no clue what it is? so I'm taking a wild guess here its for gamers that have no other option to buy their games or cannot afford to purchase it else ware? (serious question) or is it a social thing? it is yet another digital marketplace, like GoG, Steam, Discord Store, Origin etc. Except it has basically no user convenience features and crap security.
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inherit
7836
0
2,286
shinobiwan
1,171
Apr 19, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
April 2017
shinobiwan
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 21:58:47 GMT
Epic Game Store is abysmally bad for gamers. If you think otherwise, collect your Epic check. Hehe, sorry but I have to jump in here, but I'm a gamer and sorry but I don't use Epic Game store heck I have no clue what it is? so I'm taking a wild guess here its for gamers that have no other option to buy their games or cannot afford to purchase it else ware? (serious question) or is it a social thing? It's a PC platform like Steam that has been aggressively seeking exclusivity deals to build its client base. The end result for consumers is that they're forced to use the platform to play certain games.
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