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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 22, 2019 21:59:07 GMT
Epic Game Store is abysmally bad for gamers. If you think otherwise, collect your Epic check. Thank you for proving my point further. Now go back to the circle jerk you call a skepticism thread where you belong. Lol. Your butthurt is amusing, but the facts speak for themselves. Epic offers nothing new or better for their end-users compared to the competition, their security is godawful. See this link for one discussion. Nice try.
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2019 22:03:20 GMT
Here is the problem: Metro making a business decision to accept money from Epic due to the policies Steam has (which is borderline monopolistic) in regards to their cut of the profits is all fair game. You obviously have no clue what anticompetitive behavior is. If you can prove it in a court of law with the FTC, id concede that point for sure. But if you consider what Epic is doing is anti-competitive than you have no idea how that actually works from a legal standpoint, as Epic is not reducing competition in the marketplace by offering incentives for exclusivity. If anything it is increasing it. As for the use of exclusivities, making exclusive deals is protected under antitrust laws, meaning it gets the pass under the law unless if it clearly violates something that can be proven in court. This blog is an interesting primer on it if it helps any.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 22, 2019 22:04:36 GMT
Don't get me wrong. Valve are lazy buffons at this point. They do basically nothing as a company anymore (except make card games that die in two weeks). They have no business taking 30% of every sale. That is a large chunk of profit for zero work, they also have no quality assurence, so any piece of crap shovelware can be put up on Steam provided someone pays Valve like $500 or w/e it is.
But at least I've never had my Steam account information stolen...
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Post by NotN7 on Mar 22, 2019 22:07:20 GMT
Ah, thank you Therevanch25 and shinobiwan for the replies.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 22:15:31 GMT
You obviously have no clue what anticompetitive behavior is. If you can prove it in a court of law with the FTC, id concede that point for sure. But if you consider what Epic is doing is anti-competitive than you have no idea how that actually works from a legal standpoint, as Epic is not reducing competition in the marketplace by offering incentives for exclusivity. If anything it is increasing it. As for the use of exclusivities, making exclusive deals is protected under antitrust laws, meaning it gets the pass under the law unless if it clearly violates something that can be proven in court. This blog is an interesting primer on it if it helps any. What the fuck are you talking about? Why would I sue on this? You also clearly do not understand the FTC's role - in this circumstance, it would be a consumer (or competitor) against Steam litigating in a US district court. I didn't say Epic was engaging in anticompetitive behavior. It's not. Exclusivity deals happen all the time. You said the "policies" Steam has were "borderline monopolistic." You need to lay off the law and order, lol.
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2019 22:19:59 GMT
Thank you for proving my point further. Now go back to the circle jerk you call a skepticism thread where you belong. Lol. Your butthurt is amusing, but the facts speak for themselves. Epic offers nothing new or better for their end-users compared to the competition, their security is godawful. See this link for one discussion. Nice try. Offering nothing new or being better or worse than the rest of the market is personal opinion. The above doesn't justify piracy. The above is personal choice to use Epic or not.
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2019 22:24:17 GMT
If you can prove it in a court of law with the FTC, id concede that point for sure. But if you consider what Epic is doing is anti-competitive than you have no idea how that actually works from a legal standpoint, as Epic is not reducing competition in the marketplace by offering incentives for exclusivity. If anything it is increasing it. As for the use of exclusivities, making exclusive deals is protected under antitrust laws, meaning it gets the pass under the law unless if it clearly violates something that can be proven in court. This blog is an interesting primer on it if it helps any. What the fuck are you talking about? Why would I sue on this? You also clearly do not understand the FTC's role - in this circumstance, it would be a consumer (or competitor) against Steam litigating in a US district court. I didn't say Epic was engaging in anticompetitive behavior. It's not. Exclusivity deals happen all the time. You said the "policies" Steam has were "borderline monopolistic." You need to lay off the law and order, lol. Then my bad for misunderstanding, though honestly you could have been more clear as to what you were criticising. I thought you were implying what Epic was doing was anticompetitive. And I do understand the FTC's role here, if need be i'll be more clear on that too next time.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 22:25:17 GMT
What the fuck are you talking about? Why would I sue on this? You also clearly do not understand the FTC's role - in this circumstance, it would be a consumer (or competitor) against Steam litigating in a US district court. I didn't say Epic was engaging in anticompetitive behavior. It's not. Exclusivity deals happen all the time. You said the "policies" Steam has were "borderline monopolistic." You need to lay off the law and order, lol. Then my bad for misunderstanding, though honestly you could have been more clear as to what you were criticising. I thought you were implying what Epic was doing was anticompetitive. And I do understand the FTC's role here, if need be i'll be more clear on that too next time. I literally quoted you. No you don't. The FTC has no role in this context. Not that I would sue steam (nor would I have standing to do so) just to prove a point on this forum, that comment was beyond bizarre.
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2019 22:36:02 GMT
Then my bad for misunderstanding, though honestly you could have been more clear as to what you were criticising. I thought you were implying what Epic was doing was anticompetitive. And I do understand the FTC's role here, if need be i'll be more clear on that too next time. I literally quoted you. No you don't. The FTC has no role in this context. You quoted the following: You gave no indication which section of that quote was what you referred to, I presumed it was Epic buying exclusives. Next time just be clear. Hell, bold it or something like everyone else does. As to the FTC, they actually do play a role because they are the ones who not only spell out any violations to antitrust law, but also can provide funding for investigations if a company is in violation of a law, including issuing lawsuits to companies where they feel the law is being violated. I guess you can argue that it's a stretch to include them, so fine, they likely have no role in this context. That said, their involvement is still possible in such cases.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 22:45:01 GMT
I literally quoted you. No you don't. The FTC has no role in this context. You quoted the following: You gave no indication which section of that quote was what you referred to, I presumed it was Epic buying exclusives. Next time just be clear. Hell, bold it or something like everyone else does. As to the FTC, they actually do play a role because they are the ones who not only spell out any violations to antitrust law, but also can provide funding for investigations if a company is in violation of a law, including issuing lawsuits to companies where they feel the law is being violated. I guess you can argue that it's a stretch to include them, so fine, they likely have no role in this context. That said, their involvement is still possible in such cases. You only called one activity "monopolistic," which was Steam's. Couldn't be clearer. The rest of this shit is just wrong. The FTC brings enforcement actions against companies on behalf of the government. They would be the plaintiff. If an individual were involved bringing suit, it would be a private suit, individual vs offending company. The FTC would not be involved, and I certainly wouldn't prove anything "in a court of law with the FTC." And that's not even touching on the standing issue that you seem to have no concept of.
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2019 23:06:02 GMT
You quoted the following: You gave no indication which section of that quote was what you referred to, I presumed it was Epic buying exclusives. Next time just be clear. Hell, bold it or something like everyone else does. As to the FTC, they actually do play a role because they are the ones who not only spell out any violations to antitrust law, but also can provide funding for investigations if a company is in violation of a law, including issuing lawsuits to companies where they feel the law is being violated. I guess you can argue that it's a stretch to include them, so fine, they likely have no role in this context. That said, their involvement is still possible in such cases. You only called one activity "monopolistic," which was Steam's. Couldn't be clearer. The rest of this shit is just wrong. The FTC brings enforcement actions against companies on behalf of the government. They would be the plaintiff. If an individual were involved bringing suit, it would be a private suit, individual vs offending company. The FTC would not be involved, and I certainly wouldn't prove anything "in a court of law with the FTC." And that's not even touching on the standing issue that you seem to have no concept of. FTC involvement is more than federal intervention, they can also perform lawsuits on the behalf of private citizens if they have ample evidence to pursue a case on the behalf of the public, mostly for compensation of unfair practices, or consumer redress. The FTC also has the power to conduct investigations via subpoena over lawsuits. You wanted me to go specific, here you are: You are arguing the wrong point and for some reason are hung up on yourself sueing Steam, I guess maybe a misunderstanding of something I said. Then again, I couldn't be more clearer than what I originally wrote . ETA: Look, I can admit when I make mistakes and i'm wrong, I was obviously not clear enough in what I was arguing. Everything you said is true, but the fact of the matter is the FTC can get involved in litigation in such a case if it were to go that way. So sorry if I mislead somehow.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 22, 2019 23:09:19 GMT
DA:I was a very average game. It had really clunky gameplay, loads of MMO quality quests and (IMO) very repetitive and underwhelming combat. It has pretty good lore, characters and dialogue, so it's still worth playing, but it's nowhere near TW3's quality. Also, bugs don't really matter that much in an RPG, even if they might be annoying. No amount of bugfixes would make MEA a good Mass Effect game. But ME:A is a good Mass Effect game. In fact it’s more Mass Effect than ME3. Oh and Witcher 3 and DAI are on par with one another.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 22, 2019 23:12:29 GMT
Don't get me wrong. Valve are lazy buffons at this point. They do basically nothing as a company anymore (except make card games that die in two weeks). They have no business taking 30% of every sale. That is a large chunk of profit for zero work, they also have no quality assurence, so any piece of crap shovelware can be put up on Steam provided someone pays Valve like $500 or w/e it is. But at least I've never had my Steam account information stolen... That's a fair argument, but it doesn't justify piracy.
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Post by aglomeracja on Mar 22, 2019 23:15:12 GMT
DA:I was a very average game. It had really clunky gameplay, loads of MMO quality quests and (IMO) very repetitive and underwhelming combat. It has pretty good lore, characters and dialogue, so it's still worth playing, but it's nowhere near TW3's quality. Also, bugs don't really matter that much in an RPG, even if they might be annoying. No amount of bugfixes would make MEA a good Mass Effect game. But ME:A is a good Mass Effect game. In fact it’s more Mass Effect than ME3. Oh and Witcher 3 and DAI are on par with one another. How so?
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 23:20:23 GMT
You only called one activity "monopolistic," which was Steam's. Couldn't be clearer. The rest of this shit is just wrong. The FTC brings enforcement actions against companies on behalf of the government. They would be the plaintiff. If an individual were involved bringing suit, it would be a private suit, individual vs offending company. The FTC would not be involved, and I certainly wouldn't prove anything "in a court of law with the FTC." And that's not even touching on the standing issue that you seem to have no concept of. FTC involvement is more than federal intervention, they can also perform lawsuits on the behalf of private citizens if they have ample evidence to pursue a case on the behalf of the public, mostly for compensation of unfair practices, or consumer redress. The FTC also has the power to conduct investigations via subpoena over lawsuits. You wanted me to go specific, here you are: You are arguing the wrong point and for some reason are hung up on yourself sueing Steam, I guess maybe a misunderstanding of something I said. Then again, I couldn't be more clearer than what I originally wrote . This is getting silly so it's the last I'll say about it. If you want to continue to spout nonsense on the internet, feel free. If you actually want to learn, you can PM me. You don't understand the difference between a private right of action. If the FTC is involved, the lawsuit is FTC v. [Company]. If a private person or company is involved, they would be the plaintiff, not the FTC. Under no circumstance would I be proving something "in a court of law with the FTC." The statute you quoted is what authorizes the FTC to bring the first type of suit I mentioned. It doesn't help the (incorrect) point you're trying to make in the slightest. This is a matter of basic civil procedure. Responding to your edit: if the FTC were to intervene in a private suit in that manner, they would replace the plaintiff. Again, there wouldn't be a circumstance where I would be proving anything "in a court of law with the FTC. Also, that is extremely rare - I've only experienced the US government doing that once.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 22, 2019 23:21:33 GMT
DA:I was a very average game. It had really clunky gameplay, loads of MMO quality quests and (IMO) very repetitive and underwhelming combat. It has pretty good lore, characters and dialogue, so it's still worth playing, but it's nowhere near TW3's quality. Also, bugs don't really matter that much in an RPG, even if they might be annoying. No amount of bugfixes would make MEA a good Mass Effect game. But ME:A is a good Mass Effect game. In fact it’s more Mass Effect than ME3. Oh and Witcher 3 and DAI are on par with one another. On par ha? Did why doesnt anyone ever mention looking to DAI for how to do side quest or open world emergent gameplay? In fact, it was Bioware who said they looked at TW3 to learn how to do side quest better. If DA4 comes on 2021 as I expect, there is a good chance it would go head to head against the next CDPR AAA title that will release that year....
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Post by bshep on Mar 22, 2019 23:25:57 GMT
If TW3 had been released in 2014, it would most likely suffered the same fate as MEA and perhaps Anthem …
DAI would have been unscathed by an early (too soon) release of an unfinished, unpolished TW3 game.
And CDPR wouldn't be the RPG hero that they currently seem to be …
Perhaps that is a better lesson for BioWare and EA going forward.
Side note … I've tried several times to play TW … but I find the combat so clunky, I end up walking away. I also own TW2 and TW3 … in anticipation of playing the story all the way through. Currently, both TW and TW2 are installed on my computer, but not TW3. Lately, I've considered uninstalling the first two … space isn't an issue, I just doubt that I will ever find the game enjoyable enough to play for the story.
I found DA mechanics clunky, but not so onerous that I couldn't enjoy the story. Of the three, DA2 had the best mechanics, but that's not saying much. I hope that DA4 has better mechanics … Anthem has great mechanics, perhaps that will carry over to DA.
Back on topic … while the great sales at launch for Anthem are a noteworthy positive, as many have said (both those liking and those disliking Anthem) … it's the long-term player base and profitability that will matter for this type of game. Criticisms of Anthem, by some, were almost unhinged and disconnected from the game I experienced while playing. Support by some was also unrealistic … sometimes a response to the negative reactions, which I find unfortunate. But somewhere, not on those extremes, were folks who disliked the game for very valid reasons and those who liked the game, despite some noteworthy flaws that have yet to be corrected.
How this all plays out is TBD … but so far, I've had fun, early sales are a positive, improvements since launch have been real and significant … next week's patch and next month's game content will show me a lot more on whether the game is on track for the long-haul, as opposed to some very early game sales data. Yeah. This cry about Witcher is annoying. It is a really good game but it is not "the answer for all the problems in the gaming world".
I find those big sales important because chances are that the player population will be healthy by the time it stabilizes.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 23, 2019 0:39:41 GMT
Don't get me wrong. Valve are lazy buffons at this point. They do basically nothing as a company anymore (except make card games that die in two weeks). They have no business taking 30% of every sale. That is a large chunk of profit for zero work, they also have no quality assurence, so any piece of crap shovelware can be put up on Steam provided someone pays Valve like $500 or w/e it is. But at least I've never had my Steam account information stolen... That's a fair argument, but it doesn't justify piracy. I didn't say it did. I never support Piracy. Only pointing out why Epic Store sucks..
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 23, 2019 0:41:20 GMT
That's a fair argument, but it doesn't justify piracy. I didn't say it did. I never support Piracy. Only pointing out why Epic Store sucks.. I understand that. Moreso tying it back to the original point I was making.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 23, 2019 1:47:04 GMT
Hehe, sorry but I have to jump in here, but I'm a gamer and sorry but I don't use Epic Game store heck I have no clue what it is? so I'm taking a wild guess here its for gamers that have no other option to buy their games or cannot afford to purchase it else ware? (serious question) or is it a social thing? It's a PC platform like Steam that has been aggressively seeking exclusivity deals to build its client base. The end result for consumers is that they're forced to use the platform to play certain games. You mean, the way I'm forced to use Steam to get certain games, or Origin for others? What's the difference? Also, what does "platform" mean in this context? Different storefronts, sure, but beyond that? "Steam community" sounds about as meaningful to me as "Wal-Mart community," so I'm obviously missing something.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 23, 2019 2:30:43 GMT
DA:I was a very average game. It had really clunky gameplay, loads of MMO quality quests and (IMO) very repetitive and underwhelming combat. It has pretty good lore, characters and dialogue, so it's still worth playing, but it's nowhere near TW3's quality. Also, bugs don't really matter that much in an RPG, even if they might be annoying. No amount of bugfixes would make MEA a good Mass Effect game. But ME:A is a good Mass Effect game. In fact it’s more Mass Effect than ME3. Oh and Witcher 3 and DAI are on par with one another. That is an insult to DAI, sir.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 23, 2019 2:40:38 GMT
DA:I was a very average game. It had really clunky gameplay, loads of MMO quality quests and (IMO) very repetitive and underwhelming combat. It has pretty good lore, characters and dialogue, so it's still worth playing, but it's nowhere near TW3's quality. Also, bugs don't really matter that much in an RPG, even if they might be annoying. No amount of bugfixes would make MEA a good Mass Effect game. But ME:A is a good Mass Effect game. In fact it’s more Mass Effect than ME3. Oh and Witcher 3 and DAI are on par with one another. Holy no. And also no fucking way. Jesus.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 23, 2019 6:15:35 GMT
The Witcher 3 on PS4 had a metacritic score of 92, Dragon Age Inquistion had a 89 on PS4...and both were adored by fans...pretty comparable The differences are overblown...you can think what you want, I have enough experience with both to form my own opinion I'm well aware there's no convincing you, but for anyone else following along, let's keep the facts straight. DAI had an 85 metascore on both PC and XBone. Witcher 3 had 9.3 and 9.1 on those platforms, respectively. User scores also differ substantially in favor of TW3. My personal view is that they're closer than the scores suggest as well, but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I suspect if the Witcher 3 had released first DAIs scores would have been a lot worse. DAI launched at a good time for lackluster open world design as people were still enamored with open world and were still somewhat okay with no substance fetch quests upping the hours as that is predominantly what almost all open world games did. It's like you wouldn't knock a racing game for not having drifting mechanics in a time frame before drifting mechanics existed. I think Anthem and MEA shows even after the witcher 3 object lesson bioware wouldn't have been up to designing a compelling open world. DAI may overall be a good game but it does open world crappy, which was known at the time but wasn't as much of a glaring issue because the withcer 3 and its much more well received open world design had not come out yet.
Which is IMO a big reason why in retrospect people look back on DAI less favorably than they looked at it at launch.
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therevanchist25
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therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 23, 2019 6:58:29 GMT
All I'll say about this is the following...
I love DAI. It's easily my favorite Dragon Age, and easily in my top 4 for Bioware games overall. That said, let's be real here, There were a lot of people that were unsatisfied with Inquisitions Open World aspects even back then, I am one of those people. I have only a handful of problems with Inquisition, but that was one of them, and still is. For me it is easily the games single weakest aspect, and I've played DAI probably about a dozen times by now.
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Hrungr
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Hrungr
More coffee...? More coffee.
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hrungr
Hrungr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Hrungr
18,258
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 23, 2019 7:51:22 GMT
I suspect if the Witcher 3 had released first DAIs scores would have been a lot worse. Imagine though if their situations were reversed. Say the Witcher 3 had to launch 6 months earlier, and their entire development had to focus on supporting 2 generations of consoles as well as the PC. And now DA:I gets 6 months more development time, and having seen what W3 had done, and their entire period of development is free of the headaches and limitations of having to support older consoles from the get-go. I always thought DA:I was an impressive feat for BW, especially given they had to develop so many of their systems from scratch in Frostbite, supporting the older consoles, and still come out the other end with a damn good game. It felt like such a huge leap over DA2, it was like night and day. Jaws were dropping when they first showed off gameplay. And think many forget just how many new features we actually got in Inquisition. On the other hand, I completely agree a lot of the sidequests felt weak, but in an game that overall kept reeling me back in playthrough after playthough. So, it still did enough right (for me).
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