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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 20, 2019 23:25:54 GMT
I think that starkid lied because he implied shepard would die in destroy because shepard had cybernatics in him. (why bring up shepard's cybernatics otherwise?) So I think that the geth and edi could still be alive though the geths bodies would severely damaged so they would need to fix themselves. Edi's body would be dead but she would still be alive.
Now with control I am not sure that he explained it well since shepard would not stay the same if he became the catalyst and thus might end up changing other things. I have a hard problem figuring out control.
Synthesis is still puzzling to me but I don't think think that everyone being infused with shepards dna would suddenly make organics and synthetics live in harmony forever and ever.
These are just my opinions on it but what do you think? did the star kid lie and if so about what and how may that effect future games.
Edit- Or that it wasn't lying but was just wrong about the outcome.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 21, 2019 0:37:02 GMT
Synthesis is still puzzling to me but I don't think think that everyone being infused with shepards dna would suddenly make organics and synthetics live in harmony forever and ever. There would no longer be a distinction between organic and synthetic. Synthetics would have "DNA" and organics would have "robotiness". I've never argued this would end the organic/synthetic conflict, since there would no longer be such a division. What I have said is that it would not end conflict in general. Whether it's organic/synthetic, turian/human, rachni/krogan or whatever, reasons for being on opposing sides remain. I'm not going to beat the dead horse of Leviathan roaming the galaxy.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 21, 2019 1:22:46 GMT
Synthesis is still puzzling to me but I don't think think that everyone being infused with shepards dna would suddenly make organics and synthetics live in harmony forever and ever. There would no longer be a distinction between organic and synthetic. Synthetics would have "DNA" and organics would have "robotiness". I've never argued this would end the organic/synthetic conflict, since there would no longer be such a division. What I have said is that it would not end conflict in general. Whether it's organic/synthetic, turian/human, rachni/krogan or whatever, reasons for being on opposing sides remain. I'm not going to beat the dead horse of Leviathan roaming the galaxy. my thought is wouldn't someone eventually just make more synthetics eventually. What do you think about starkid
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 21, 2019 2:28:59 GMT
There would no longer be a distinction between organic and synthetic. Synthetics would have "DNA" and organics would have "robotiness". I've never argued this would end the organic/synthetic conflict, since there would no longer be such a division. What I have said is that it would not end conflict in general. Whether it's organic/synthetic, turian/human, rachni/krogan or whatever, reasons for being on opposing sides remain. I'm not going to beat the dead horse of Leviathan roaming the galaxy. my thought is wouldn't someone eventually just make more synthetics eventually. What do you think about starkid Starkid becomes the same mishmash of organic and synthetic as everyone else. Your question is good, though. I've raised a similar one regarding the eventual rise of organics. Organic life: "all organisms are built from the same six essential elemental ingredients: carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur". Source
With that in mind, organic life is going to arise again. There's no way around it. What happens then? Do they become "synthesized" or was the a one time thing when the beam was fired? If not, now you've got synthesized life and organic life. Even the rise of organics aside it's as you say. Why wouldn't the synthesized being create VIs to do the things they can't be bothered with? So now we've got organics, synthetics and synthesized things. I can see a major war coming.
Shoving all that aside, consider the Andromeda Initiative. Life from the MW went to Andromeda. Their ancestors could conceivably come back. Similarly, if people from the MW leave to another galaxy is it unreasonable to think that races from other galaxies wouldn't come to the MW?
Fact is, Synthesis is a clusterfuck and the variables for the future are too great, too much about it wasn't thought out, never mind that this "end of evolution" is the equivalent of a wave of the magician's wand. This is the only option that's pure fantasy which I think is why so many people have a hard time accepting it in a sci-fi game.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 21, 2019 2:47:51 GMT
Synthesis is still puzzling to me but I don't think think that everyone being infused with shepards dna would suddenly make organics and synthetics live in harmony forever and ever. There would no longer be a distinction between organic and synthetic. Synthetics would have "DNA" and organics would have "robotiness". I've never argued this would end the organic/synthetic conflict, since there would no longer be such a division. What I have said is that it would not end conflict in general. Whether it's organic/synthetic, turian/human, rachni/krogan or whatever, reasons for being on opposing sides remain. I'm not going to beat the dead horse of Leviathan roaming the galaxy. While I agree. The slide show actually does make it look like everyone now gets along in harmony. Which is creepy as fuck actually, I assume it doesn't in a attempt to make it a somewhat viable option. Because if it does make everyone live in harmony, damn I can't think of a explanation outside of mass indoctrination.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 21, 2019 3:06:22 GMT
There would no longer be a distinction between organic and synthetic. Synthetics would have "DNA" and organics would have "robotiness". I've never argued this would end the organic/synthetic conflict, since there would no longer be such a division. What I have said is that it would not end conflict in general. Whether it's organic/synthetic, turian/human, rachni/krogan or whatever, reasons for being on opposing sides remain. I'm not going to beat the dead horse of Leviathan roaming the galaxy. While I agree. The slide show actually does make it look like everyone now gets along in harmony. Which is creepy as fuck actually, I assume it doesn't in a attempt to make it a somewhat viable option. Because if it does make everyone live in harmony, damn I can't think of a explanation outside of mass indoctrination. I think we see that in the immediate future but I'm not sure that wouldn't be true post-war regardless. Agree on the indoctrination but also think Synthesis is doomed to failure. Organics will arise again through natural processes, organics from other galaxies will visit the MW (as we went to Andromeda), the desire to have "slaves" to do their dirty work will lead to the rise of AI. Conflict decidedly not ended. Also, Space Magic TM and that doesn't really fly in sci-fi.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 21, 2019 3:07:53 GMT
I think that starkid lied because he implied shepard would die in destroy because shepard had cybernatics in him. (why bring up shepard's cybernatics otherwise?) So I think that the geth and edi could still be alive though the geths bodies would severely damaged so they would need to fix themselves. Edi's body would be dead but she would still be alive.
Now with control I am not sure that he explained it well since shepard would not stay the same if he became the catalyst and thus might end up changing other things. I have a hard problem figuring out control.
Synthesis is still puzzling to me but I don't think think that everyone being infused with shepards dna would suddenly make organics and synthetics live in harmony forever and ever.
These are just my opinions on it but what do you think? did the star kid lie and if so about what and how may that effect future games. What's this argument about, besides wishful thinking? EDI's name is on the memorial wall in Destroy. She's dead.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 21, 2019 3:21:08 GMT
While I agree. The slide show actually does make it look like everyone now gets along in harmony. Which is creepy as fuck actually, I assume it doesn't in a attempt to make it a somewhat viable option. Because if it does make everyone live in harmony, damn I can't think of a explanation outside of mass indoctrination. I think we see that in the immediate future but I'm not sure that wouldn't be true post-war regardless. Agree on the indoctrination but also think Synthesis is doomed to failure. Organics will arise again through natural processes, organics from other galaxies will visit the MW (as we went to Andromeda), the desire to have "slaves" to do their dirty work will lead to the rise of AI. Conflict decidedly not ended. Also, Space Magic TM and that doesn't really fly in sci-fi. Although the new organics and new AIs can be incorporated into the Synthesis community, if they feel it's necessary. Would they? Beats me. My take's always been that the conflict isn't as intractable or as inevitable as the Catalyst thought. Bad premises lead to bad conclusions. Which makes Synthesis not really necessary, of course.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 21, 2019 6:47:23 GMT
I think we see that in the immediate future but I'm not sure that wouldn't be true post-war regardless. Agree on the indoctrination but also think Synthesis is doomed to failure. Organics will arise again through natural processes, organics from other galaxies will visit the MW (as we went to Andromeda), the desire to have "slaves" to do their dirty work will lead to the rise of AI. Conflict decidedly not ended. Also, Space Magic TM and that doesn't really fly in sci-fi. Although the new organics and new AIs can be incorporated into the Synthesis community, if they feel it's necessary. Would they? Beats me. My take's always been that the conflict isn't as intractable or as inevitable as the Catalyst thought. Bad premises lead to bad conclusions. Which makes Synthesis not really necessary, of course. Yeah, I don't know. Do you really synthesize visiting extra-galactic aliens? Is it even possible? Maybe only the children of those synthesized are born that way. Similarly, as life once more arises, does that mean they synthesize bacteria?
I agree about the conflict. It doesn't have to be that way. EDI is one example, in that she was capable of falling in love with an organic and was willing to "die" to stop the Reapers.
The geth had, at the start, only defended themselves. True, they killed anyone that entered their space, but that could be see as a defensive measure. It's only under the influence of Sovereign that they become aggressive. I've also pointed out that the zha'til were in perfect harmony with the zha until the Reapers took control of them. Finally, the LOKI mechs seen in the Citadel Archives shows that they only wanted to be recognized as sentient beings allowed to exist.
The Catalyst's programming said the conflict was inevitable so it could draw no other conclusion.
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Post by kalreegar on Mar 21, 2019 10:28:42 GMT
The catalyst is not lying.
1) refusal ending: he told shepard that his solution (the reapers) won't work anymore, and so a new solution is required. If Shepard refused to choose, liara's warning message is shown, and than the stargazer say "the reaper are no longer a threat" -> Catalyst is telling you the TRUTH.
2) control ending: he told Shepard that he will take control of the reaper, with his memories intact. And that's what happened -> Catalyst is telling you the TRUTH.
3) synthesis ending: he told Shepard that organic will understand synthetics and viceversa, and conflicts will no longer be inevitable -> that's what happened, synth and organic have better relations, cooperation etc -> Catalyst is telling you the TRUTH.
4) destroy ending: he told you that the red wave will target both the reapers and synthetcis. And that's what happened. Reapers always die, edi always die, geth always die. About Shepard (which is an organic, let's be clear), if your EMS is low, he explicitly says "your Crucible device is severely damaged. The energy it releases will destroy the relays, creating a chain reaction that will be unpredictable and devastating. Al technology and those that depend on synthetic technology for their survival, will be lost. Yourself included.". So he's telling you clear and plain: you will die too. You will be lost. If EMS is higer, he tells you: "your crucible device appears to be largely intact. However the effects of the blast will not be constained to the reapers. Technology you rely on will be affected. Though those who survive will have little difficulty repairing the damage. There will still be losses. But no more than what has already been lost." So, nothing certain about shepard's fate. There is a HUGE difference regarding Shepard possible fate, depending on EMS. A certain death vs ... nothing certain. And the catalyst is correct about that too. So, again -> Catalyst is telling you the TRUTH
About one thing the catalyst can be wrong, and it's about the fact that "synth and organics will always try to destroy each others, chaos bla bla". But it's not about lying or being sincere. It's about what he believes (could be right, could be wrong, who knows), why he created the reapers and started the cycles.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 21, 2019 11:40:49 GMT
The thing bends the truth to get the organic to choose the green. It says the green can't be forced. Yes the organic isn't forced to choose it, but he/she is forcing it on the galaxy. It also says the green is the final evolution for all life. So life won't evolve anymore than what it currently is? All it does is butter up the crap. The green works in its favor, not organics because its the only one where it remains. It's interesting that when Shepard asks 'there will be peace?', but get no yes or a no from the thing except that it will end the harvest. In the blue Shepard aks they will obey me, the thing says yes, but you will die. With the red, the reapers will be destroyed, thing says yes, but the chaos will return. My Shepard plays stupid. Since there's no vision showing her what to do with the green. She doesn't know if she's has to take a dump, pee, use strands of hair, flakes of skin or add a few drops of blood in the beam of green. Realizing she has a handgun in her hand, she heads to the right to shoot the tube destroying the thing and its toys. Why does it get an attitude, if ems is below 2700? Being that low, it will say Why are you here vs wake up if ems is above 2700. It says you do not know them, and there's not enough time to explain. Are you in a hurry for a destroy this planet party? Since it says it only knew the concept of the crucible for several cycles, it doesn't know them. It also could be that Bioware didn't know. They just put it in the game just to have it in the game. It's unfortunate Shepard can't ask more questions.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 21, 2019 13:26:25 GMT
Of course it lied.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 14:15:22 GMT
It totally depends on what sort of Shepard I'm roleplaying for that particular playthrough. IMO, the writing is vague enough that either interpretation is possible... so why wouldn't I make use of that in order to role play different personalities of Shepard with varying belief systems in different playthroughs. It adds variety to my replays... and it's just a game after all. People get altogether locked into a singular way to play this game.
As such, I will say it again... no consequences of any singular choice (wherever a choice was given) should be ingrained into the next game. There should be no choices that are made canon over any other offered choices. If they want to carry forward in the Milky Way (or return to the Milky Way from Andromeda), they should write it in such a way as to be sensitive to the choice actually made by the player throughout all the previous ME games. The concept is similar in how we were able to choose a background for Shepard in the first ME game with a few references to that choice appearing in the subsequent games but in no way materially affecting the course of the subsequent games. This means moving the timeline forward far enough that events subsequent to the ending of ME3 can be said to have happened that ultimately affect each ME3 ending choice in a manner that ultimately results in a singular state for the Milky Way Galaxy. These stated events would change depending on the ME3 choices made. They could be depicted in a short comic that appears before the game starts. Choice A results in Comic A being shown. Choice B results in Comic B being shown... but both comics end in such a place that the galaxy looks the same in both cases at the start of the game.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 21, 2019 16:18:38 GMT
3) synthesis ending: he told Shepard that organic will understand synthetics and viceversa, and conflicts will no longer be inevitable -> that's what happened, synth and organic have better relations, cooperation etc -> Catalyst is telling you the TRUTH. That's not what happened. The organics and synthetics are filled with some kind of circuitry, not to mention the glowing green eyes. EDI had "DNA" inside of her. Watch the videos below. The point is, the entire galaxy was transformed against their will. The conflicts were never inevitable. As I said in another post, if an AI's programming says something is true then the AI must believe it to be true. The endings may happen as the Catalyst says but its core belief is flawed. Those options were never needed in the first place. The Reapers did far, far more harm than good. EDI commenting about being alive. EDI had "DNA" inside of her. From EDI's voiceover: " As the line between synthetic and organic disappears, we may transcend mortality..."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 16:33:33 GMT
3) synthesis ending: he told Shepard that organic will understand synthetics and viceversa, and conflicts will no longer be inevitable -> that's what happened, synth and organic have better relations, cooperation etc -> Catalyst is telling you the TRUTH. That's not what happened. The organics and synthetics are filled with some kind of circuitry, not to mention the glowing green eyes. EDI had "DNA" inside of her. Watch the videos below. The point is, the entire galaxy was transformed against their will. The conflicts were never inevitable. As I said in another post, if an AI's programming says something is true then the AI must believe it to be true. The endings may happen as the Catalyst says but its core belief is flawed. Those options were never needed in the first place. The Reapers did far, far more harm than good. EDI commenting about being alive. EDI had "DNA" inside of her. From EDI's voiceover: " As the line between synthetic and organic disappears, we may transcend mortality..." That it is occurring "against their will" is your assumption though. The remainder of the galaxy doesn't state their will on this matter. In fact, many of them have shown that they are amenable to various forms of synthetic circuitry being inserted into their bodies through biotic implants and commonly used cybernetics. In fact, it is shown that most believe a level of integration with synthetic technologies improves their lives and their life expectancy. By asserting to Shepard that organics are now ready for this option to be available can just be the Catalyst correctly reading the collective will of all the organics in the galaxy... and then truthfully relaying that "collective will" to Shepard..
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 21, 2019 16:40:11 GMT
That it is occurring "against their will" is your assumption though. The remainder of the galaxy doesn't state their will on this matter. The rest of the galaxy isn't asked. This line of discussion isn't worth pursuing. Show me the poll they took.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 21, 2019 16:51:25 GMT
I mean, in all the important, galaxy changing aspects of the choices, the Extended Cut shows that the catalyst - amazingly - did not lie at all but told us pretty much exactly what happens. That said, my canon Shepard (and IMO any reasonable Shepard) does not believe the Starkid is telling the truth at all. He is torn between refuse and destroy but since it's pretty clear that refuse will not really accomplish anything, he goes for destroy. ... Or I just use MEHEM or one of the other ending mods and skip this entire BS conversation altogether.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 16:55:49 GMT
That it is occurring "against their will" is your assumption though. The remainder of the galaxy doesn't state their will on this matter. The rest of the galaxy isn't asked. This line of discussion isn't worth pursuing. Show me the poll they took. They accept "gene therapy" as common (Shepard can state as much to Michael and Rebekkah). What is gene therapy? We are told in game that it's basically the use of technology of some sort of alter DNA in order to eliminate the risk of a disease or to enhance the performance of a soldier. Biotic implants are used in connection with biotic amps... insertion of a technology into the body to integrate with organic physiology in order to improve the organic's performance. What are cybernetics? Use of technology to repair damaged organic parts and extend the subjects life expectancy... even bringing them back from the dead. The keepers are also a sign of just sheer acceptance of technology without even fully understanding it. The galactic cooperation and acceptance of the Crucible itself without even understanding what it does is also another sign that there is a collective will to accept technology as a good thing. The player can further this by accepting the geth as fully evolved AI and the people adapting so readily to allowing them to help out in building the Crucible.
The game asks what the player wants the galaxy to believe about AI throughout the game. You make the choice. You can make the assumption you make and support your choice... but that doesn't make it impossible for the opposing assumption and choice to be made. It is possible for the Catalyst to be telling the truth... that he has analyzed the organics in the galaxy and there is now a readiness and a willingness to integrate with tech that just wasn't there in the previous cycles... basically saying that, by completing the Crucible, this cycle has already evolved further than previous cycles.
When a person isn't asked their will, it does not automatically follow that what happens is against their will. They could possibly be in favor of it... we just don't know. We use computer polling and extrapolation to ascertain the collective will of people all the time. It happens every day right on this website... people assume they represent the opinion of a vast majority that is largely silent on the issues we discuss over and over again. Is it really so hard to believe that the Catalyst hasn't just analyzed the data and extrapolated a conclusion that the populace is now actually ready and willing for synthesis to occur? Even if its conclusion could be in error, it doesn't arbitrarily equate to it engaging in a deliberate lie or deception to cause Shepard to make a particular choice. Either interpretation is possible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 17:06:53 GMT
It lied about everything. It's doing everything it can to prevent you from destroying the Reapers. They only care about self-preservation.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 21, 2019 17:25:23 GMT
The rest of the galaxy isn't asked. This line of discussion isn't worth pursuing. Show me the poll they took. They accept "gene therapy" as common (Shepard can state as much to Michael and Rebekkah). What is gene therapy? We are told in game that it's basically the use of technology of some sort of alter DNA in order to eliminate the risk of a disease or to enhance the performance of a soldier. Biotic implants are used in connection with biotic amps... insertion of a technology into the body to integrate with organic physiology in order to improve the organic's performance. What are cybernetics? Use of technology to repair damaged organic parts and extend the subjects life expectancy... even bringing them back from the dead. The keepers are also a sign of just sheer acceptance of technology without even fully understanding it. The galactic cooperation and acceptance of the Crucible itself without even understanding what it does is also another sign that there is a collective will to accept technology as a good thing. The player can further this by accepting the geth as fully evolved AI and the people adapting so readily to allowing them to help out in building the Crucible.
The game asks what the player wants the galaxy to believe about AI throughout the game. You make the choice. You can make the assumption you make and support your choice... but that doesn't make it impossible for the opposing assumption and choice to be made. It is possible for the Catalyst to be telling the truth... that he has analyzed the organics in the galaxy and there is now a readiness and a willingness to integrate with tech that just wasn't there in the previous cycles... basically saying that, by completing the Crucible, this cycle has already evolved further than previous cycles.
When a person isn't asked there will, it does not automatically follow that what happens is against their will. They could possibly be in favor of it... we just don't know. We use computer polling and extrapolation to ascertain the collective will of people all the time. Is it really so hard to believe that this isn't what the Catalyst has done in ME3.
Even if the majority of the Galaxy agreed to it, it would be beyond belief to think all life wanted it or was okay with it. I mean there are people out there who don't like peanut butter and that is far crazier than not wanting to be transformed into a Borg.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 17:47:47 GMT
They accept "gene therapy" as common (Shepard can state as much to Michael and Rebekkah). What is gene therapy? We are told in game that it's basically the use of technology of some sort of alter DNA in order to eliminate the risk of a disease or to enhance the performance of a soldier. Biotic implants are used in connection with biotic amps... insertion of a technology into the body to integrate with organic physiology in order to improve the organic's performance. What are cybernetics? Use of technology to repair damaged organic parts and extend the subjects life expectancy... even bringing them back from the dead. The keepers are also a sign of just sheer acceptance of technology without even fully understanding it. The galactic cooperation and acceptance of the Crucible itself without even understanding what it does is also another sign that there is a collective will to accept technology as a good thing. The player can further this by accepting the geth as fully evolved AI and the people adapting so readily to allowing them to help out in building the Crucible.
The game asks what the player wants the galaxy to believe about AI throughout the game. You make the choice. You can make the assumption you make and support your choice... but that doesn't make it impossible for the opposing assumption and choice to be made. It is possible for the Catalyst to be telling the truth... that he has analyzed the organics in the galaxy and there is now a readiness and a willingness to integrate with tech that just wasn't there in the previous cycles... basically saying that, by completing the Crucible, this cycle has already evolved further than previous cycles.
When a person isn't asked there will, it does not automatically follow that what happens is against their will. They could possibly be in favor of it... we just don't know. We use computer polling and extrapolation to ascertain the collective will of people all the time. Is it really so hard to believe that this isn't what the Catalyst has done in ME3.
Even if the majority of the Galaxy agreed to it, it would be beyond belief to think all life wanted it or was okay with it. I mean there are people out there who don't like peanut butter and that is far crazier than not wanting to be transformed into a Borg. Again, majority rules is a common concept as well. We don't consider it to arbitrarily be "against the will" of the people when even a minority government is voted into power... even when only a small number of the people actually vote... even when portions of the populace weren't given the right to vote in the first place. We regularly extrapolate polls of very small samplings of the populace as being valid indicators of what the populace likes or wants... and we don't arbitrarily say, when those trends are used to produce something or make a change that affects their daily lives, that it is arbitrairly a change that is "against the will" of the people.
IF Bioware does chooose destroy as a canon ending even though the vast majority of players have not expressed their view on the matter and some have expressed a view clearly against the idea... are you then going to say that change was implemented "against the will" of the players? It would still be against my personal will... but not likely against yours or several others here that I can think of... and the vast majority we'd just never know. More likely, those in favor of that action would start to say that Bioware listened to the players and did what they wanted... even though they would often be the same people now saying that synthesis is arbitrarily "against the will" of the galaxy.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Mar 21, 2019 18:13:18 GMT
Whatever the next ME is it isn't a condition inflicted upon you. If its not what you want you make a choice to buy it or not. If the majority passed a law to enslave a minority group, yeah its against their will.
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Post by kalreegar on Mar 21, 2019 19:08:00 GMT
Catalyst: There is another solution: Synthesis. Shepard: And that is? C: Add your (you Shepard) energy to the Crucible's. The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new... DNA. S: Explain how my energy can be added to the Crucible. C: Your organic energy, the essence of who and what you are, will be broken down and then dispersed. S: To do what, exactly? C: The energy of the Crucible, released in this way, will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy. Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics, in turn, will finally have full understanding of organics. It is the ideal solution. Now that we know it is possible, it is inevitable we will reach synthesis. S: Why couldn't you do it sooner? C: We have tried... a similar solution in the past. But it has always failed. S: Why? C: Because the organics were not ready. It is not something that can be... forced. You are ready. And you may choose it.
So... synthesis works like this. You need: a) Shepard organic energy, "the essence of what he is" b. ) the crucible c) combining the two things and releasing the energy
The catalyst tried a similar solution but it failed. Why? Because organics were not ready. BUT YOU (YOU SHEPARD, THE ESSENCE OF WHAT YOU ARE) are ready. BUT YOU ARE READY. And YOU (YOU SHEPARD) can choose it.
So "It is not something that can be... forced" should be interpreted as "Having a ready Shepard, a willing to choose Shepard, with that kind of essence, is not something that can be forced".
The essential ingredient (Shepard organic energy, his essence) must have come to awareness and readiness freely... and not through indocrination, or lab-experiment or something else.
The the whole discourse of the catalyst revolves around shepard, his essence, his choiche, his readiness. The catalyst doesn't care about the free self-determination of organic life in the galaxy. Of course that synthesis is going to be forced upon bacteria, mechs, elephants, elcor, leaves, fungi, asari, geth, 1 month human and 30 year old humans, and billions and billions of life forms through the galaxy. It would be impossible and ridicoulous to ask for consent one by one... shepard should a really low low IQ Shepard to interpret the words of the catalyst in this sense. I mean, there is no need of lying, what kind a stupid shepard would believe that something that will alter the matrix of all (ALL!!!) organic life in the galaxy is something that can be freely chosen or rejected? By ALL ORGANIC LIFE??? 99,99999999% of organic life doesn't even have a glimmer of free will.
Of course synthesis is something imposed from above. It is self-evident and also clearly emerges from the explanation of the catalyst.
What the catalyst means is simply that the processes of synthesis must start with an act of free will and freely achieved awareness. It cannot be forced. So he's not lying, IMO.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 21, 2019 19:28:43 GMT
The only reason why the thing says you're ready is because it has an organic standing in front of it to make the choice and to survive. It's another one of the lines it uses that butters up the green. Is anybody ready to have their dna changed within a blink of an eye?
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Post by kalreegar on Mar 21, 2019 19:41:06 GMT
To be manipulative and persuasive doesn't necessarly mean to be a liar. Shepard manipulated people for 3 games with its unmatched charm, convincing people to shoot themselves, to give him money, to join him in suicidal missions, to have sex with him... now there is a little bit of retaliation In any case, if you choose synthesis, the slides + EDI description of the green-scenario seem to be 100% compatible with the catalyst's foreshadowing.
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