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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 9, 2019 15:13:00 GMT
Don't know that I agree. Kaidan can Reave, which is apparently very unusual for a human. I don't see Liara as more powerful than Jack or Kaidan. Miranda knocked the crap out of an asari during her LM. So, nah, I'm going to say asari aren't necessarily stronger than humans. I think it would be true for your average human Biotic, but Jack, Shepard, Miranda, Kaidan and even Jacob aren't your average biotics. The Human MP Biotics would fall under that category, most likely. Miranda and Jack especially, what with Miranda's codex entry putting her up there with some of the best in the galaxy, if I recall correctly and Jack, well, in cutscenes she lifts YMIR mechs and throws them around with the same ease that Jacob tosses people, so I'm guessing that's not normal. Even by biotics standards. Samara seems equally as powerful, judging by her performance in the Suicide Mission, at least. Plus, she flies in her introductory cutscene. We've not seen other biotics do that, asari or otherwise. Liara, I think, is more honed a biotic than Kaidan, would roughly match or barely outperform Miranda, but Miranda would probably be the more combat capable of the two. If I had to guess, Samara is more powerful than all of them. I don't doubt that at all. I simply said that humans could be equally powerful to asari in general.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 9, 2019 15:29:00 GMT
If I had to guess, Samara is more powerful than all of them. I don't doubt that at all. I simply said that humans could be equally powerful to asari in general. Samara is definitely more potent, most likely stronger and shows off some awe inspiring uses of her biotics. She also has at least a couple of hundred years of practice and control over her biotics over her human counterparts. On the other hand, Jack has probably had subjectively zero (no pun intended) guidance over her use of biotics and the things she can accomplish with them, so her power seems to stem more from her anger and ability to maintain it, rather than her own potential. If someone with experience were to teach and, perhaps, spur her creative juices, perhaps Jack could outdo Samara. I think she has a lot of wasted potential.
See, these are themes that we barely touched upon in the OT and that I would love to go back to and further explore.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 10, 2019 0:09:42 GMT
Don't know that I agree. Kaidan can Reave, which is apparently very unusual for a human. I don't see Liara as more powerful than Jack or Kaidan. Miranda knocked the crap out of an asari during her LM. So, nah, I'm going to say asari aren't necessarily stronger than humans. I think it would be true for your average human Biotic, but Jack, Shepard, Miranda, Kaidan and even Jacob aren't your average biotics. The Human MP Biotics would fall under that category, most likely. Miranda and Jack especially, what with Miranda's codex entry putting her up there with some of the best in the galaxy, if I recall correctly and Jack, well, in cutscenes she lifts YMIR mechs and throws them around with the same ease that Jacob tosses people, so I'm guessing that's not normal. Even by biotics standards. Samara seems equally as powerful, judging by her performance in the Suicide Mission, at least. Plus, she flies in her introductory cutscene. We've not seen other biotics do that, asari or otherwise. Liara, I think, is more honed a biotic than Kaidan, would roughly match or barely outperform Miranda, but Miranda would probably be the more combat capable of the two. Actually we see vesir (the spectre in shadow breaker dlc) float in the air while wresteling shepard in the air and then land gracefully. Liara does a less graceful version of samara's biotic glide down from where Vesir jumped from when we find out she is the bad guy. I don't know where people get the idea that jacob is super powerful. I mean I am not saying he's weak but he isn't to a top ten level. I think liara is a strong biotic for her age. Yeah she is stronger then most human biotics but samara would have destroyed liara in a fight. However I would point out that in the suicide mission when we need a biotic to take us through the seeker swarms only jack and samara can hold it and not get someone killed if i remember right. You can argue that thane's sickness might effect his stamina which is why he couldn't do it but jacob and miranda can't do it the whole way. So I think we can take that as lore that they are super powerful. Also I don't think shepard should count because outside of combat we don't see him use biotics except when he is fighting the clone in the citadel dlc if he is biotic.
But where do people get the idea that jacob is so powerful? I am not being a jerk or anything but I don't know where people get the idea that jacob is so strong.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 10, 2019 1:34:19 GMT
The only reason why Jack and Samara are able to maintain the barrier is because their loyalty missions were completed. If not, they can't maintain the barrier.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 10, 2019 11:16:30 GMT
Actually we see vesir (the spectre in shadow breaker dlc) float in the air while wresteling shepard in the air and then land gracefully. Liara does a less graceful version of samara's biotic glide down from where Vesir jumped from when we find out she is the bad guy. I don't know where people get the idea that jacob is super powerful. I mean I am not saying he's weak but he isn't to a top ten level. I think liara is a strong biotic for her age. Yeah she is stronger then most human biotics but samara would have destroyed liara in a fight. However I would point out that in the suicide mission when we need a biotic to take us through the seeker swarms only jack and samara can hold it and not get someone killed if i remember right. You can argue that thane's sickness might effect his stamina which is why he couldn't do it but jacob and miranda can't do it the whole way. So I think we can take that as lore that they are super powerful. Also I don't think shepard should count because outside of combat we don't see him use biotics except when he is fighting the clone in the citadel dlc if he is biotic.
But where do people get the idea that jacob is so powerful? I am not being a jerk or anything but I don't know where people get the idea that jacob is so strong.
Yeah, Tela Vasir is probably the strongest biotic we see, Aria coming in second, most likely, Jack and Samara would be tied for third spot, Miranda and Liara at fourth, then Kaidan, then Jacob. Jacob is probably an above average human biotic, which is why Cerberus tried to recruit him and why TIM invested Miranda as an asset to do so. And Miranda went through great lengths to both test him and convince him. He's probably not as great as the other exceptional biotics we've mentioned, but he was susceptible to manipulation, he'd be an asset for both Shepard, as a biotic and a squadmate and TIM, in his attempt to promote a more friendly face for Cerberus to Shepard. Even Miranda is on board on the whole charade at first, but as soon as TIM enters the picture, that whole pretense goes away and from there you have to earn her trust.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 10, 2019 11:42:35 GMT
The only reason why Jack and Samara are able to maintain the barrier is because their loyalty missions were completed. If not, they can't maintain the barrier. Yes. And they leveled up, as well, when you did those. So they obviously broke through a limiting mental barrier that prevented their growth. In any case, impressive feat for both.
I do have a few qualms as far as Jack is concerned, though. I mean, it strikes me as funny that, while Jack was running around with gangs and evading authorities, she'd have access and resources to upgrade to L5 implants. Especially since she'd probably have started off with L2s in her time in Pragia, which usually have terrible side effects, or, should they be removed, risk permanent mental damage. Kinda makes you think.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 10, 2019 11:57:55 GMT
The only reason why Jack and Samara are able to maintain the barrier is because their loyalty missions were completed. If not, they can't maintain the barrier. Yes. And they leveled up, as well, when you did those. So they obviously broke through a limiting mental barrier that prevented their growth. In any case, impressive feat for both. I don't agree. What it tells me is that a little distraction will cause them to lose focus during a mission leading to bad things. It's one of the things I don't like about ME2. Not completing a loyalty mission could mean someone dies. I would rather have that effect the relationship between Shepard and the character.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 10, 2019 12:12:59 GMT
I'm gonna disagree with the "little" there. I mean, years of child abuse and trauma is not a "little" distraction. Especially for someone as mentally unstable as Jack. As for Samara, having to hunt down her vampire psycho killer daughter and kill her, yeah, that's pretty fucking hardcore. Even Miranda, having to worry about the safety of her sister, who is also, very subtly insinuated, her only daughter and the possibility of her only friend having betrayed her trust, that's not little either. None of these would be considered as big as "Eldritch fucking horrors from deep space coming to eradicate organic life as we know it", sure, but should those personal issues not be addressed, you can be sure they wouldn't be at the top of their game. I know I wouldn't. Not completing a loyalty mission could mean someone dies. I would rather have that effect the relationship between Shepard and the character. But it does. For some more than others. Jack will tell you to fuck right off, for example and will not have another word from you. Others are more reasonable, like Miranda, whose loyalty can be lost and regained through dialogue.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 10, 2019 12:24:54 GMT
I'm gonna disagree with the "little" there. Little or not, it's a distraction. It seems that something they have no control over is worth worrying about instead of staying alive during a mission. Look at Garrus. He's been in the turian military for however long, and part of C-sec for however long yet if his loaylty mission isn't completed he has a hard time as fireteam leader leading to him dying. I should have added to effect in ME3 as well.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 10, 2019 12:41:27 GMT
Little or not, it's a distraction. It seems that something they have no control over is worth worrying about instead of staying alive during a mission. Look at Garrus. He's been in the turian military for however long, and part of C-sec for however long yet if his loaylty mission isn't completed he has a hard time as fireteam leader leading to him dying. I do not disagree entirely, but like I said, it's a mental block, a barrier that prevents them from growing, that prevents them from reaching their full potential. Garrus' problem especially makes sense, since the last squad he led, was entirely decimated. If that wasn't addressed, it would lead to Garrus being a liability, as insecurities would creep up inevitably and he would second guessed himself for every decision he made. Kinda like Bioware during Anthem development. I should have added to effect in ME3 as well. It did for some in ME3, like Grunt, but I agree, it should have played a greater role in ME3 and, well, there's no changing back what we got. So much that I wanted to see in that game and didn't and the fact that they made sure that I never will, thanks to that ending that they are too scared to touch upon and ... I'm gonna stop myself right here. I went and made myself sad again.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 10, 2019 19:54:50 GMT
The only reason why Jack and Samara are able to maintain the barrier is because their loyalty missions were completed. If not, they can't maintain the barrier. That is part of the game thing so you do their loyalty mission. You do realize this doesn't prove me wrong since if jacob,thane,and miranda have their loyalty missions done they still can't hold the barrier. So my point still stands
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 10, 2019 20:01:42 GMT
Actually we see vesir (the spectre in shadow breaker dlc) float in the air while wresteling shepard in the air and then land gracefully. Liara does a less graceful version of samara's biotic glide down from where Vesir jumped from when we find out she is the bad guy. I don't know where people get the idea that jacob is super powerful. I mean I am not saying he's weak but he isn't to a top ten level. I think liara is a strong biotic for her age. Yeah she is stronger then most human biotics but samara would have destroyed liara in a fight. However I would point out that in the suicide mission when we need a biotic to take us through the seeker swarms only jack and samara can hold it and not get someone killed if i remember right. You can argue that thane's sickness might effect his stamina which is why he couldn't do it but jacob and miranda can't do it the whole way. So I think we can take that as lore that they are super powerful. Also I don't think shepard should count because outside of combat we don't see him use biotics except when he is fighting the clone in the citadel dlc if he is biotic.
But where do people get the idea that jacob is so powerful? I am not being a jerk or anything but I don't know where people get the idea that jacob is so strong.
Yeah, Tela Vasir is probably the strongest biotic we see, Aria coming in second, most likely, Jack and Samara would be tied for third spot, Miranda and Liara at fourth, then Kaidan, then Jacob. Jacob is probably an above average human biotic, which is why Cerberus tried to recruit him and why TIM invested Miranda as an asset to do so. And Miranda went through great lengths to both test him and convince him. He's probably not as great as the other exceptional biotics we've mentioned, but he was susceptible to manipulation, he'd be an asset for both Shepard, as a biotic and a squadmate and TIM, in his attempt to promote a more friendly face for Cerberus to Shepard. Even Miranda is on board on the whole charade at first, but as soon as TIM enters the picture, that whole pretense goes away and from there you have to earn her trust. Tela vesir is a strong biotic by we don't see her do any super powerful things or see any lore indicating it. Aria on the other hand we see use biotics at another level. She kicked the patriarchs ass in combat and if she was the asari commando wrex mentions in ME1 she fought through a space station against wrex and probably used biotics to keep her ahead of him. And again if we are gonna judge characters based on gameplay (except shepard) then she is still the strongest when she uses flare which again is the defination of overpowered. The lore and gameplay show that she is an extremly powerful biotic. Tela vasir does that floating thing in a cut scene and something similar to a van guard charge then does a vanguard charge and shockwave in combat. She is strong but we have no real lore to back it up.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 10, 2019 20:19:45 GMT
The only reason why Jack and Samara are able to maintain the barrier is because their loyalty missions were completed. If not, they can't maintain the barrier. That is part of the game thing so you do their loyalty mission. You do realize this doesn't prove me wrong since if jacob,thane,and miranda have their loyalty missions done they still can't hold the barrier. So my point still stands I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. I was only pointing out that without their loyalty missions, Jack and Samara, completed, they can't maintain the barrier.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 10, 2019 20:24:51 GMT
That is part of the game thing so you do their loyalty mission. You do realize this doesn't prove me wrong since if jacob,thane,and miranda have their loyalty missions done they still can't hold the barrier. So my point still stands I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. I was only pointing out that without their loyalty missions, Jack and Samara, completed, they can't maintain the barrier. Oh my mistake. Sorry about that
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Post by clips7 on Apr 11, 2019 4:24:57 GMT
I think it would be true for your average human Biotic, but Jack, Shepard, Miranda, Kaidan and even Jacob aren't your average biotics. The Human MP Biotics would fall under that category, most likely. Miranda and Jack especially, what with Miranda's codex entry putting her up there with some of the best in the galaxy, if I recall correctly and Jack, well, in cutscenes she lifts YMIR mechs and throws them around with the same ease that Jacob tosses people, so I'm guessing that's not normal. Even by biotics standards. Samara seems equally as powerful, judging by her performance in the Suicide Mission, at least. Plus, she flies in her introductory cutscene. We've not seen other biotics do that, asari or otherwise. Liara, I think, is more honed a biotic than Kaidan, would roughly match or barely outperform Miranda, but Miranda would probably be the more combat capable of the two. Actually we see vesir (the spectre in shadow breaker dlc) float in the air while wresteling shepard in the air and then land gracefully. Liara does a less graceful version of samara's biotic glide down from where Vesir jumped from when we find out she is the bad guy. I don't know where people get the idea that jacob is super powerful. I mean I am not saying he's weak but he isn't to a top ten level. I think liara is a strong biotic for her age. Yeah she is stronger then most human biotics but samara would have destroyed liara in a fight. However I would point out that in the suicide mission when we need a biotic to take us through the seeker swarms only jack and samara can hold it and not get someone killed if i remember right. You can argue that thane's sickness might effect his stamina which is why he couldn't do it but jacob and miranda can't do it the whole way. So I think we can take that as lore that they are super powerful. Also I don't think shepard should count because outside of combat we don't see him use biotics except when he is fighting the clone in the citadel dlc if he is biotic.
But where do people get the idea that jacob is so powerful? I am not being a jerk or anything but I don't know where people get the idea that jacob is so strong.
..... media1.giphy.com/media/YWwYgeKquXKJq/200w.webp?cid=790b76115caebc334974774c3623ba87 ....j/k....yeah...I don't think Jacob is in the top ten...Jacob came across to me as a soldier on the very low end of the scale and when it came to picking somebody in that suicide mission it was either Samara or Miranda because of of their training and their conditioning and how disciplined they are of their biotic ability....i never chose Jack because i felt, her rage pretty much dictated how strong she is, and felt that as a character in a high pressure scenario like that, not much would cause Jack to lose focus and to cause the entire team to wipe.... I think Jack has potential if she was trained to hone her abilities tho..... agree with pretty much everything you stated...
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 11, 2019 12:35:10 GMT
Tela vesir is a strong biotic by we don't see her do any super powerful things or see any lore indicating it. Bruh, she violated me. Multiple times. I've had more luck fighting off Saren on Insanity with a soldier, that got the overheat bug on all my guns short of the sniper rifle. Have you tried sniping a bunny hoping turian-husk, while keeping the heat slider in check? It's like trying to take a piss, through a cheerio, that's being held by a Michael J. Fox, as he suffers an epileptic seizure. I am exaggerating, of course and I mean no disrespect to Michael J Fox, I fucking love the guy and I think I heard he is doing much better nowadays. But to get back on topic, it is a tossup, for me, between Aria and Tela Vasir. Tela Vasir is also a spectre, so I'm guessing she has her own brass badges. Aria is a crime lord and most definitely got there with her own prowess and also her cunning. So I'm guessing their standing has more to do than just biotics. Just my two bits.
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 11, 2019 13:11:10 GMT
Tela vesir is a strong biotic by we don't see her do any super powerful things or see any lore indicating it. How many Vanguards did we see on the level with Shepard? I think Tela Vasir was the only other one who we ever saw use Charge. She seems pretty powerful to me and even the wiki says she's one of the most powerful enemies in the game.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 11, 2019 17:42:57 GMT
when it came to picking somebody in that suicide mission it was either Samara or Miranda Miranda actually fails at keeping the barrier. Only Jack and Samara pull through, if they're loyal. So yeah, Jack might not be as honed, but definitely is a stronger biotic than Miranda. At least she seems to have a bigger biotic reserve, so to speak, to tap into than Miranda. And now I remembered how much fun I had playing ME2 and made me sad again.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 11, 2019 21:43:08 GMT
when it came to picking somebody in that suicide mission it was either Samara or Miranda Miranda actually fails at keeping the barrier. Only Jack and Samara pull through, if they're loyal. So yeah, Jack might not be as honed, but definitely is a stronger biotic than Miranda. At least she seems to have a bigger biotic reserve, so to speak, to tap into than Miranda. And now I remembered how much fun I had playing ME2 and made me sad again. I've never not done their loyalty missions so I have questions here. What happens if neither of them is loyal? Do your squadmates die?
Also, just to point something out about who can hold the barriers: an asari and a human. I think we have our strongest biotics.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 11, 2019 22:02:45 GMT
Tela vesir is a strong biotic by we don't see her do any super powerful things or see any lore indicating it. How many Vanguards did we see on the level with Shepard? I think Tela Vasir was the only other one who we ever saw use Charge. She seems pretty powerful to me and even the wiki says she's one of the most powerful enemies in the game. We don't see any other vanguards who do vanguard charge. However If we are gonna go by gameplay alone then what about the vanguards in ME3 MP?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 11, 2019 22:09:58 GMT
How many Vanguards did we see on the level with Shepard? I think Tela Vasir was the only other one who we ever saw use Charge. She seems pretty powerful to me and even the wiki says she's one of the most powerful enemies in the game. We don't see any other vanguards who do vanguard charge. However If we are gonna go by gameplay alone then what about the vanguards in ME3 MP? True. The lore around it is that a new implant is what allowed for it. However, that means asari also have to wear those implants since asari didn't have biotic charge until the right implant came along. I think it has to be L5n's. TIM must have upgraded Shepard's implant and Tela Vasir maybe never had one previously.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 11, 2019 22:12:30 GMT
We don't see any other vanguards who do vanguard charge. However If we are gonna go by gameplay alone then what about the vanguards in ME3 MP? True. The lore around it is that a new implant is what allowed for it. However, that means asari also have to wear those implants since asari didn't have biotic charge until the right implant came along. I think it has to be L5n's. TIM must have upgraded Shepard's implant and Tela Vasir maybe never had one previously.
Maybe they mean humans needed a special implant to do it
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dmc1001
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 11, 2019 22:15:14 GMT
True. The lore around it is that a new implant is what allowed for it. However, that means asari also have to wear those implants since asari didn't have biotic charge until the right implant came along. I think it has to be L5n's. TIM must have upgraded Shepard's implant and Tela Vasir maybe never had one previously.
Maybe they mean humans needed a special implant to do it Maybe but that means we never came across a single asari Vanguard until Tela Vasir. Otherwise we would have seen charge.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 11, 2019 22:26:15 GMT
Maybe they mean humans needed a special implant to do it Maybe but that means we never came across a single asari Vanguard until Tela Vasir. Otherwise we would have seen charge. I think they may have left it out because it would change the way gameplay is for a bunch of stuff. I am not explaining it well but vanguard charge seems like it would be more work to implement into the gameplay then most other powers. Of course I could be wrong this is just a guess
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Post by themikefest on Apr 11, 2019 22:47:35 GMT
Maybe they mean humans needed a special implant to do it Maybe but that means we never came across a single asari Vanguard until Tela Vasir. Otherwise we would have seen charge. Thane's recruitment mission have vanguards They don't use charge. They use warp and shotgun. There's one or two seen during Samara's recruitment mission as well. They too just use warp and a shotgun. They're called eclipse vanguards. They would say weakening their integerity
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