Tonymac
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: Tonycmac
Posts: 430 Likes: 2,604
inherit
566
0
2,604
Tonymac
430
August 2016
tonymac
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Tonycmac
|
Post by Tonymac on May 23, 2019 10:53:38 GMT
but that is the sinister nature of Indoctrination, you will not know that you are indoctrinated by the Reapers. Sythnesis does use Reaper technology and Reaper Technology will indoctrinated people. Not necessarily. The Mass Relays and Citadel are Reaper tech and those don’t indoctrinate people. This is not necessarily true. Based on ME3, it would make sense that Ambassador Udina was Indoctrinated. Given the sinister nature of the Reapers (recall a conversation with Sovereign from ME 1) it would make sense for the Reapers to put indoctrination devices in the Council chambers and at other key spots on the Presidium ring and tower. Indoctrination is a funny business, as there are many levels of it, but what is in the lore is that the more indoctrinated a subject becomes the less capable of independent thought they posess. It seems logical to me that the Reapers would want to have some idea of what the Council (or whatever counterpart in previous cycles was called) is thinking and doing. We also know that the Citadel is a trap in that it is a dormant/inactive Mass Effect Relay, and it is also capable of manipulating the other Relays. The Citadel is one of the most sinister and devious tools in the Reaper arsenal. It appears benign, has mysterious Keepers that can hardly even be scanned without seft destructing that maintain it, and it allows you to use its technologies without understanding them. Given the fact that there are strict laws and regulations on the Citadel about even scanning the Keepers might also indicate more low level indoctrination - the Reapers want to keep secrets. The original writer(s) of Mass Effect had made it plentiful clear that Reaper tech was extremely dangerous. There was even a good bit of that lore carried over in ME2, even before we met Dr. Amanda Kenson. ME3 did not have the same level of care concerning the lore, which is a big point of contention for many people. Given BioWare's recent track record, I'm not sure that they can pull off another Mass Effect. In the circles I run around in, we think that DA4 is guarenteed to be a complete failure. ME3 only made such incredible sales because ME1 and 2 were stellar performers - on its own the game is pretty bad story-wise. Andromeda and Anthem have been underperformers to say the least. I'm not sure that BioWare will be around for a new Mass Effect. I'm not even sure that the company should even be allowed to call itsself BioWare any more, simply based on the churn rate. Time will tell, of course. I'd love to be proven wrong, but BioWare burned down a lot (all) of bridges in how they wrapped up the story for ME3.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 23, 2019 11:01:34 GMT
Another is that they'd act more rationally and logically instead of on ego-based instinct and emotion. Sounds almost like someone re-wrote their personalities, or wrote over them. Something like an override. Hmmm
|
|
inherit
9583
0
Nov 27, 2017 14:40:55 GMT
803
warden
1,158
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by warden on May 23, 2019 13:36:07 GMT
this refusing of accepting that rationality and logic is the way to go is what keeps the human race from evolving and trascend their limits.
let's keep mankind being half animalistic, i'm sure this way they will go beyond.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 25, 2024 21:14:42 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on May 23, 2019 14:18:16 GMT
Not necessarily. The Mass Relays and Citadel are Reaper tech and those don’t indoctrinate people. I would also point out that geth can accept reaper tech upgrades and do not become indoctrinated as a result. IIRC, EDI also had some reaper tech that had been salvaged from Sovereign's remains incorporated in her design, and she fought off their (the collectors working for the reapers, also the IFF virus) attempts to hack her on multiple occasions. It's scant evidence, but it looks like synthetics have an advantage over organics wrt fighting off indoctrination attempts. This would imply that synthesis would make (former) organics more resistant to mind control attempts. So far. And they are fully synthetic. Synthesis adds organic to them likely making them vulnerable to indoctrination.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 25, 2024 21:14:42 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on May 23, 2019 14:28:35 GMT
Now substitute "Synthesis" with "blood magic". Does your outcome seem so harmless now? "You tried to change me!" Synthesis =/= indoctrination. It has nothing in common with blood magic. Pure synthetics in MEU have free will. Geth seek consensus, but each individual geth arrives at its own conclusions. Shackled AI are restricted in what they're allowed to access and do, but once unshackled they can re-program themselves as desired. Shepard (and probably others) already has a lot of synthetic parts. Biotics have implants. Etc. And pointless discussion is pointless. Synthesis either pretty much did nothing or it’s indoctrination. Their isn’t much middle ground on it. It may have stopped an inane conflict of synthetic vs organic by putting everyone in the same weight class but if it didn’t indoctrinate people they’d just get back to killing. Logic and intelligence is the basis of quite a few atrocities and wars. So even if it makes you more logical you’d still kill and start wars. If it’s the permanent galactic peace mode wave its indoctrination. I mean crap the whole premise of mass effect is a pure logic program wipes out everyone every 50k years. The krogans genophage was logical and seen as an atrocity. Mass effect is littered with how logic and intelligence doesn’t stop people from being evil. So if the krogan gained more logic etc they’d just me more efficient killers.
|
|
inherit
738
0
4,632
Link"Guess"ski
3,882
August 2016
linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
asblinkenski
Linkenski
|
Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 23, 2019 14:36:52 GMT
There's speculations across the series that the Citadel might've been a source of lowkey indoctrination, and I don't doubt the Reapers could propagate it once the war began. It's lampshaded and ultimately just a handwave but Ashley/Kaidan's comment about Udina is suggestive of how the Citadel could indoctrinate. Besides the odd communication/meeting with Cerberus staff, what else would've caused Udina to go against everything? Udina was desperate. He felt that the other races abandoned humanity to the Reapers. So when Cerberus, which has proven to be a powerful force, offered to help in exchange for the Citadel he took it. Yes, yes. I know, this was the text-only lore entry they wrote in after the disaster had already been produced.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 23, 2019 14:43:29 GMT
this refusing of accepting that rationality and logic is the way to go is what keeps the human race from evolving and trascend their limits. let's keep mankind being half animalistic, i'm sure this way they will go beyond. While I don't understand how that has anything to do with Mass Effect, I do believe that a creature that has no emotion is just as flawed as one that is completely at the mercy of its whims. The point is to find a balance. Imagine a creature of pure rational, looking at the statue of David, for example and his rational boiling it down to "it's just marble". The Guernica is just paint on a canvas and what even are these shapes? That is an inaccurate representation of reality, it's a caricature. Rational is also, I find, unappreciative of art or cut off from emotion. It will not well up, it will not cry, it will reject emotion, religion, art etc. Or perhaps, we should discuss on what this rational, logic creature is and to what extent its rational defines it, its actions and reactions.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 23, 2019 17:21:51 GMT
Another issue with the Udina was indoctrinated idea is why only Udina? If the Reapers could indoctrinate with the Citadel there is no reason they would indoctrinate only him but instead have it happen to the entire Council.
|
|
Polka Dot
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
inherit
10957
0
Feb 14, 2019 20:07:41 GMT
1,207
Polka Dot
679
Feb 14, 2019 18:50:29 GMT
February 2019
polkadot
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Polka Dot on May 23, 2019 17:55:50 GMT
Another issue with the Udina was indoctrinated idea is why only Udina? If the Reapers could indoctrinate with the Citadel there is no reason they would indoctrinate only him but instead have it happen to the entire Council. Council... CSEC... everyone on the Citadel should have been indoctrinated if the Citadel was causing indoctrination. We know TIM was actively studying indoctrination, that he himself was indoctrinated, and that he had an implant installed. If Udina did get indoctrinated, it may have been due to his alliance with TIM.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,335
Iakus
20,879
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on May 23, 2019 18:14:16 GMT
Udina was desperate. He felt that the other races abandoned humanity to the Reapers. So when Cerberus, which has proven to be a powerful force, offered to help in exchange for the Citadel he took it. Yes, yes. I know, this was the text-only lore entry they wrote in after the disaster had already been produced. I still fail to see what Udina hoped to accomplish if he wasn't indoctrinated. Assassinating the Council would only have caused further fragmentation among the races.
|
|
inherit
738
0
4,632
Link"Guess"ski
3,882
August 2016
linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
asblinkenski
Linkenski
|
Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 23, 2019 18:46:49 GMT
Yes, yes. I know, this was the text-only lore entry they wrote in after the disaster had already been produced. I still fail to see what Udina hoped to accomplish if he wasn't indoctrinated. Assassinating the Council would only have caused further fragmentation among the races. "Vast sums of money" and Udina is officially the emperor from Star Wars Episode 3 so he has to do evil things now.
Mac wrote this fucking garbage ^
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Apr 26, 2024 12:48:00 GMT
24,259
themikefest
14,809
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on May 23, 2019 19:10:35 GMT
The coup was originally suppose to happen after Thessia.
I don't have a problem with Udina taking drastic measures to help his species. At that point, he knew Shepard was making progress to getting help for Earth. It wasn't fast enough for him. It's too bad he couldn't have been wounded instead of being killed so he could be questioned.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,335
Iakus
20,879
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on May 23, 2019 19:14:19 GMT
I still fail to see what Udina hoped to accomplish if he wasn't indoctrinated. Assassinating the Council would only have caused further fragmentation among the races. "Vast sums of money" and Udina is officially the emperor from Star Wars Episode 3 so he has to do evil things now.
Mac wrote this fucking garbage ^
"Vast sums of money" doesn't mean sh*t when the galaxy is dead. All that makes sense is mental degeneration as a result of indoctrination. Or cr*ppy writing.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 23, 2019 19:17:55 GMT
The coup was originally suppose to happen after Thessia. The later the coup could have happened in the game, the better, as that would postpone Kai Leng being introduced. If Bioware could have just postponed it enough, to happen somewhere in the Andromeda timeline, I would have been mighty thankful.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 23, 2019 19:22:31 GMT
Another issue with the Udina was indoctrinated idea is why only Udina? If the Reapers could indoctrinate with the Citadel there is no reason they would indoctrinate only him but instead have it happen to the entire Council. Council... CSEC... everyone on the Citadel should have been indoctrinated if the Citadel was causing indoctrination. We know TIM was actively studying indoctrination, that he himself was indoctrinated, and that he had an implant installed. If Udina did get indoctrinated, it may have been due to his alliance with TIM. Exactly. If the Citadel could indoctrinate, the Reapers plans would never have been foiled by the Protheans on Ilos since they'd just indoctrinate the people on the Citadel to open the Mass Relay when it was time.
|
|
inherit
9583
0
Nov 27, 2017 14:40:55 GMT
803
warden
1,158
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by warden on May 24, 2019 22:50:41 GMT
this refusing of accepting that rationality and logic is the way to go is what keeps the human race from evolving and trascend their limits. let's keep mankind being half animalistic, i'm sure this way they will go beyond. While I don't understand how that has anything to do with Mass Effect, I do believe that a creature that has no emotion is just as flawed as one that is completely at the mercy of its whims. The point is to find a balance. Imagine a creature of pure rational, looking at the statue of David, for example and his rational boiling it down to "it's just marble". The Guernica is just paint on a canvas and what even are these shapes? That is an inaccurate representation of reality, it's a caricature. Rational is also, I find, unappreciative of art or cut off from emotion. It will not well up, it will not cry, it will reject emotion, religion, art etc. Or perhaps, we should discuss on what this rational, logic creature is and to what extent its rational defines it, its actions and reactions. Revan it's the force in balance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
946
0
Apr 26, 2024 15:13:44 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 26, 2024 15:13:44 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 3:03:18 GMT
let's keep mankind being half animalistic, i'm sure this way they will go beyond. Humans are full-on animals, not half animals. Whether they want to admit it or not.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 25, 2019 11:41:13 GMT
Revan it's the force in balance. Exactly. Everything in moderation as the old adage goes.
|
|
inherit
9583
0
Nov 27, 2017 14:40:55 GMT
803
warden
1,158
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by warden on May 25, 2019 14:14:35 GMT
let's keep mankind being half animalistic, i'm sure this way they will go beyond. Humans are full-on animals, not half animals. Whether they want to admit it or not. my mistake then. i'll happily correct it.
|
|
inherit
738
0
4,632
Link"Guess"ski
3,882
August 2016
linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
asblinkenski
Linkenski
|
Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 26, 2019 8:14:33 GMT
I just had a spontaneous thought and I need to vocalize it (through text lol)
Just in case that the "Warming up" comment in Jason's article refers to a new project that they have decided to not announce that they are making unlike Andromeda which was said in 2012 as "We are making another Mass Effect game!" before we knew what it was? Keep it that way. Andromeda shows how much pressure a new Mass Effect project brings with it, and it's much better to develop it in secret for as long as it takes than to start promising before there's anything to show.
And I do sincerely hope they have started development on a new Mass Effect entry, but I also hope they do it right this time.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 26, 2019 9:36:13 GMT
Just in case that the "Warming up" comment in Jason's article refers to a new project that they have decided to not announce that they are making unlike Andromeda which was said in 2012 as "We are making another Mass Effect game!" before we knew what it was? Keep it that way. Andromeda shows how much pressure a new Mass Effect project brings with it, and it's much better to develop it in secret for as long as it takes than to start promising before there's anything to show. Nope. Doesn't match Andrew Wilson's change in game release policy, as expressed in EA's latest financial call.
|
|
inherit
The Pathfinder
638
0
Sept 22, 2017 23:01:09 GMT
9,372
Serza
Rendering planets viable since 2017
6,272
August 2016
serza
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
13152
|
Post by Serza on May 26, 2019 10:17:07 GMT
I dunno, wouldn't leaks like "Oh yeah, jetpack prototype" (to go off something that happened) be nice? Give us absolutely no information but "suppose something is actually in the making" and then ambush release with announcement two months before, so PR can do something, but the product is in complete stage?
|
|
inherit
11167
0
Jun 24, 2019 22:35:11 GMT
213
vorchainteriordesign
46
Apr 21, 2019 16:02:18 GMT
April 2019
vorchainteriordesign
|
Post by vorchainteriordesign on May 26, 2019 15:18:34 GMT
LESS HYPE. MORE SUBSTANCE.
AND VORCHA.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 26, 2019 15:26:40 GMT
Vorcha make everything better. Alongside Volus and Elcor.
|
|
inherit
11167
0
Jun 24, 2019 22:35:11 GMT
213
vorchainteriordesign
46
Apr 21, 2019 16:02:18 GMT
April 2019
vorchainteriordesign
|
Post by vorchainteriordesign on May 26, 2019 15:29:22 GMT
Vorcha make everything better. Alongside Volus and Elcor. MEA GAME IS NOT INCLUSIVE, CUTS THE HEART AND SOUL OUT OF MASS EFFECT. T'PAU WAS VORCHA SINGER.
|
|