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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 17, 2020 17:48:02 GMT
After what Cahir did to Vilgefortz the latter's infamous battle at Stygga castle will look improbable, and now there's the unintentional hyping of Leo's sword skills to near comical levels. Also, i wonder how Cahir's redemption arc, if there is one, will pan out after Hissrich turned him into a one dimensional evil badguy who slaughters civilians with no hesitation. If we still don't see Vilgefortz fighting with a quarterstaff in the future then there will be problems. To be fair, Leo's sword skills ARE pretty comical even in the books. I also blinked a moment when the Nilfgaardians' "religious fanaticism" suddenly came up, even though we know that what drives them is love for their Emperor personally, and the prophecy. Like making Cahir a creepy-looking manbaby, just another attempt to exploit modern politics to pointlessly demonize the villains without backing it up one inch with quality writing. I wouldn't say his skills in the books were that outrageous because it can be argued that there is some parity between Leo's skills and Geralt's, while Vilgefortz was like the Matrix. Thanks to the show's changes Leo has the potential to kill someone (in 10 second) who defeated a uber battlemage who fought a veteran sorceress, a super witcher, and a vampire, nearly win but lose only because the plot demanded it. Book Cahir has his reservations but does his job because his family's name/safety is at risk if he fails his task, while Netfix Cahir looks like he routinely kicks puppies and burns down orphanages because he's evil. On the otherhand there's no way Netflix can screw up on Steffan Skellan.
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 17, 2020 18:25:53 GMT
I will reserve judgements about Cahir and Nilfgaard until season 2. Since I have just started the book series and Nilfgaard wasn't really brought up yet, I don't know, how much the show changed. And imo there is not much to go on yet about their motivations apart from a few hints. Plus they are really cruel, not taking prisoners, Fringilla forcing other sorcerers to sacrifice themselves etc. Are they like that in the books and/or the games? It's been a long time since I read them - just started on the second audiobook again now. I don't remember any particular cruelty on their part that doesn't seem inherent to wartime in the setting, the only thing that set them apart to me was how efficient and powerful they were compared to the Northern armies and the fact that they were actively trying to conquer the region our heroes lived in. That, and their hunt for Ciri, which mostly happened through third parties like bounty hunters, some of which were truly reprehensible in their own right. Definitely ruthless, but mostly out of utilitarianism rather than cruelty, which is also how they're presented in the games. Fringilla is a completely different character, unless serious changes occur very very quickly from this point on. The books never show Sodden Hill or anything directly leading up to it. You only hear about it in detail afterwards from a few of the people who fought there, and I'm not sure if Fringilla is ever mentioned in that context at all. In the timeline covered by the saga - starting a few years or so after the battle - she's essentially been turned by the budding Lodge of Sorceresses to help them try to control the Continent from behind the scenes as their mole in Nilfgaard, and is struggling to gain their trust partially because of how short Emhyr keeps his mages' leashes and partially because she just isn't a very old or experienced mage. Nothing that I remember from her exchanges with Triss or Yennefer alludes to them having fought on the opposite sides of such a bitter conflict, let alone one where she was the face of the opposition. And as for her personality, she and Geralt have a brief relationship during a stay in Toussaint while seaching for Ciri behind the borders of the Nilfgaardian Empire, and it's shown to affect her deeply on an emotional level even though she instigated it to advance the Lodges' interests. She does appear in the third game as the Emperor's court mage, but no particular attention is paid to her history with either Geralt or the other sorceresses. I agree that they've left themselves a bit of elbow room. Cahir immediately accepting that Ciri being in Brokilon Forest will force him to get creative to extract her instead of just sending men to their deaths was a noticeable character moment. His behavior towards "her" upon apparently finally getting his hands on her is also entirely civil and pleasant, and his conversation with Fringilla leading up to Sodden shows that they do believe they're acting for the greater good. Or he does, and she's manipulating him to gain power herself. Which is why the wanton slaughter of peasants and him being such a creep for the rest of the season is a bit much. I wouldn't even call what he has in the books a redemption arc. He's just a Nilfgaardian Vicovarian knight following orders until he comes face to face with Ciri for the first time, upon which he immediately decides that finding her again, rescuing and protecting her is obviously the right thing to do. So he just tries to do it. First with Nilfgaardian support under the guise of collecting her for the Emperor, and then without, and finally with Geralt and the others. I don't remember any indication that he was a less chivalrous or kindhearted person beforehand, and he certainly doesn't act bloodthirsty or insane at any point on-screen. He's actually the warmest and most open person in Geralt's eventual entourage, except maybe Regis. I wouldn't say his skills in the books were that outrageous because it can be argued that there is some parity between Leo's skills and Geralt's, while Vilgefortz was like the Matrix. Thanks to the show's changes Leo has the potential to kill someone (in 10 second) who defeated a uber battlemage who fought a veteran sorceress, a super witcher, and a vampire, nearly win but lose only because the plot demanded it. Book Cahir has his reservations but does his job because his family's name/safety is at risk if he fails his task, while Netfix Cahir looks like he routinely kicks puppies and burns down orphanages because he's evil. On the otherhand there's no way Netflix can screw up on Steffan Skellan. Eh. Geralt is a mutant and Book!Vilgefortz is a wizard prodigy. Leo is just an inhumanly strong and skilled and psychopathic... old dude. Who kills witchers for fun. I always found him cartoonish, in a creepy but cool way. And in those ten seconds Book!Cahir is still explicitly stated to defend himself admirably, and better than anyone else we've seen fight the man before that point, including a young witcher-trained Ciri. I'm more worried about how the hell Vilgefortz himself can be built into an intimidating nemesis for Geralt after such a pathetic showing in the first season.
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Post by Blast Processor on Jan 17, 2020 20:30:28 GMT
^Saw this and thought it was pretty funny.
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Post by dazk on Jan 18, 2020 0:05:40 GMT
I don't think she looks old but she looks older than Triss should look. If you look at the actress they originally chose (that passed away) in the link that Kappa Neko posted, she was only 16 or 18 and that's how she is Triss is portrayed in the books and games. And they talk about how young she looks and it causes her credibility issues. I am not sure if I am remembering right but is Triss one of the only mages that doesn't use magic to make he self look younger and prettier? I don't know about that, since I'm only in book 2 and Triss hasn't appeared yet. But I don't think, game Triss looks like 18, I would have put her around mid twenties. But I have mainly see pictures of her. Sorry I didn't mean Triss should look 18, she is supposed to be early twenties I believe.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 18, 2020 0:09:16 GMT
Fringilla is a completely different character, unless serious changes occur very very quickly from this point on. The books never show Sodden Hill or anything directly leading up to it. You only hear about it in detail afterwards from a few of the people who fought there, and I'm not sure if Fringilla is ever mentioned in that context at all. I’ve been reading the books, and I believe in the first meeting of the Lodge Fringilla or the other Nilfgaardian sorceress says that they were on the other side at Sodden. I’m just encountering Fringilla in The Lady of the Lake and she’s going to have to undergo some dramatic character development to be that person.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 19, 2020 3:22:42 GMT
I wouldn't say his skills in the books were that outrageous because it can be argued that there is some parity between Leo's skills and Geralt's, while Vilgefortz was like the Matrix. Thanks to the show's changes Leo has the potential to kill someone (in 10 second) who defeated a uber battlemage who fought a veteran sorceress, a super witcher, and a vampire, nearly win but lose only because the plot demanded it. Book Cahir has his reservations but does his job because his family's name/safety is at risk if he fails his task, while Netfix Cahir looks like he routinely kicks puppies and burns down orphanages because he's evil. On the otherhand there's no way Netflix can screw up on Steffan Skellan. Eh. Geralt is a mutant and Book!Vilgefortz is a wizard prodigy. Leo is just an inhumanly strong and skilled and psychopathic... old dude. Who kills witchers for fun. I always found him cartoonish, in a creepy but cool way. And in those ten seconds Book!Cahir is still explicitly stated to defend himself admirably, and better than anyone else we've seen fight the man before that point, including a young witcher-trained Ciri. I'm more worried about how the hell Vilgefortz himself can be built into an intimidating nemesis for Geralt after such a pathetic showing in the first season. The only thing i can think of for Vilgefortz is that he was hiding his abilities the whole time but considering how dire the situation was at Sodden that's stupid.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Jan 19, 2020 8:20:23 GMT
I had heard she died and that she had been cast in the show but I didn't know she had been cast for the role of Triss... At 16 she may have been too young for the part..? I don't know what role he plays in the booksthough, nut at least she looks younger than the actress playing Yen.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Jan 19, 2020 8:22:32 GMT
Eh. Geralt is a mutant and Book!Vilgefortz is a wizard prodigy. Leo is just an inhumanly strong and skilled and psychopathic... old dude. Who kills witchers for fun. I always found him cartoonish, in a creepy but cool way. And in those ten seconds Book!Cahir is still explicitly stated to defend himself admirably, and better than anyone else we've seen fight the man before that point, including a young witcher-trained Ciri. I'm more worried about how the hell Vilgefortz himself can be built into an intimidating nemesis for Geralt after such a pathetic showing in the first season. The only thing i can think of for Vilgefortz is that he was hiding his abilities the whole time but considering how dire the situation was at Sodden that's stupid. Maybe they'll come up with some kind of reason for his powers to get stronger?? An amulet or a run-in with a jinn or something??
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 19, 2020 15:57:28 GMT
Maybe they'll come up with some kind of reason for his powers to get stronger?? An amulet or a run-in with a jinn or something?? I guess? It just screws with what kind of villain he's supposed to be. In the books he's terrifying because of his razor intellect and unusually practical application of magic, and thrashes and permanently cripples Geralt at his peak in a fair one-on-one fight completely under his own power. He was the one who had commanded the mages at the Battle of Sodden to victory, and then brokered the truce afterwards. Even if Netflix Vilgefortz gets his hands on a Djinn or is augmented by dark rituals stealing the life-forces of others or something like that then he'll still just be a sniveling loser who stupidly got his ass kicked by Cahir and is now hiding behind some silly McGuffin. And Geralt - or potentially Yennefer - killing him will just feel like things taking their proper course after dispensing with the bullshit rather than the heroes catharticlly overcoming a force of nature to save Ciri.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 19, 2020 17:12:18 GMT
I mean, if they just played it as Vilgefortz throwing the fight deliberately because he was already in Emhyr’s pocket, I could probably buy it.
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 19, 2020 19:15:43 GMT
I mean, if they just played it as Vilgefortz throwing the fight deliberately because he was already in Emhyr’s pocket, I could probably buy it. Throwing the fight, maybe. Deliberately jumping backwards down a hill and cracking his head, almost killing himself? Just for Yennefer's benefit? A bit harder to credit. Even ignoring the books entirely, just looking at how the series builds him up over those two episodes, he's still a huge disappointment.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 19, 2020 22:11:49 GMT
The only thing i can think of for Vilgefortz is that he was hiding his abilities the whole time but considering how dire the situation was at Sodden that's stupid. Maybe they'll come up with some kind of reason for his powers to get stronger?? An amulet or a run-in with a jinn or something?? An amulet containing a crystallized droplet of Ciri's blood would do. Toss in the One Ring and Sun Wukong's staff too for good measure.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Jan 20, 2020 4:48:43 GMT
I mean, if they just played it as Vilgefortz throwing the fight deliberately because he was already in Emhyr’s pocket, I could probably buy it. Throwing the fight, maybe. Deliberately jumping backwards down a hill and cracking his head, almost killing himself? Just for Yennefer's benefit? A bit harder to credit. Even ignoring the books entirely, just looking at how the series builds him up over those two episodes, he's still a huge disappointment. What if the blow to the head is what does it though? That and the reaction to what happens at Sodden? Injuries like that have been known to alter a person's personality. He could wake-up and decide the way mages do things isn't going to get him what he wants and the knock on the noggin makes him less inclined to follow traditional ways. The mages he fought with are too weak, he needs to find stronger allies... ?
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Post by slimgrin727 on Jan 20, 2020 6:20:05 GMT
Vilgefortz crippled Geralt with a piece of wood. Him losing to Cahir is beyond retarded.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 20, 2020 22:32:05 GMT
So got through with a second watching of the Witcher and well...the timeines make sense kind of now...just does regular humans live longer in the Witcher universe and not just Witchers or Sorcerers's cause its interesting how Jaskier and Calenthe don't seem to age over what I have heard is thirty years.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 21, 2020 23:40:08 GMT
Okay, so reading the books... There are a lot of sidebars in the books discussing events from the perspective of minor or uninvolved characters, often years, decades or even centuries in the future. How should the show handle that? Many can probably be ignored but a particular character in the last book plays an important role in the final step of Ciri’s journey, but her story doesn’t intersect with anyone else. Another case, the Battle of Brenna: The last book has a rather detailed description of the Battle of Brenna. The catch is that our central trinity of characters are nowhere near or even slightly involved in the conflict, so how should the show handle such a thing?
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Post by slimgrin727 on Jan 23, 2020 1:20:18 GMT
I'd be happy about this if the same team wasn't involved.
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Post by melbella on Jan 23, 2020 1:44:35 GMT
I'd be happy about this if the same team wasn't involved.
Quoting since I can't see what you're talking about in your post.
Edit: not showing up in the quote either
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 23, 2020 2:09:48 GMT
I'd be happy about this if the same team wasn't involved.
Quoting since I can't see what you're talking about in your post.
Edit: not showing up in the quote either
So apparently Netflix and the Witcher showrunner are working with the studio that animated The Legend of Korra to produce a new (probably standalone) Witcher animated film called The Witcher: Nightmare of the Wolf.
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 24, 2020 21:54:27 GMT
"...will take us back to a new threat..."
This phrasing triggers me.
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Post by fylimar on Jan 25, 2020 12:31:09 GMT
Why does it have to be anime? I don't think it fits with the Witcher.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jan 25, 2020 14:34:16 GMT
Why does it have to be anime? I don't think it fits with the Witcher. To sell it in Asian countries perhaps?
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 27, 2020 4:36:06 GMT
Why does it have to be anime? I don't think it fits with the Witcher. It might not actually be “anime”. I think they might be using it as a catch all, sort of how Avatar The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra (which this studio previously worked on) adopt some styling but that’s it. Both are frequently compared to anime despite no Japanese involvement. basically I think their advertising it as an anime to try and get anime fans into The Witcher, though in practice I think it won’t have much in common with most Japanese anime.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 27, 2020 20:29:32 GMT
The Gizmodo interview with Sapkowski is awesome. I'd link but my phone's clipboard isn't cooperating.
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