Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on May 12, 2021 23:35:36 GMT
Yawn. Realistically, I think it would be good for straight male gamers to play a gay male lead for once. See reality through another's lenses. Experience something new. Zeus knows women and gay men have been having to peer through a straight male lens since forever. If you enjoy it, it's likely because the story and setting was that good. If you don't, well, now you know how easily games can fall flat for you when it isn't catered to your preferences. I replayed Dream Daddy a few months ago. It has no story beyond 'go on gay dates to advance time' and the setting is just some random suburban neighborhood, and it's so full of beautiful life-affirming gay love that I started seeing eggplants on the backs of my eyelids when I closed my eyes, and it's one of my favorite games. What does that mean, going by this magical exercise of yours? Am I a good person? And oh yeah, straight male gamers don't tend to understand what disappointment feels like, or how it feels when something isn't tailormade for your preferences, and that's clearly the main reason there aren't romance options for absolutely everybody in everything. For a moment there, I forgot that we don't experience hardship and aren't inherently capable of empathy like regular people. That's totally not an offensive assumption to make. It's so great that we have people to guide us like this. I remember a few years ago when I was having another conversation about this topic on this board, and it ended (for my part) when someone was complaining about Bioware romances not being split evenly down the line of sexual orientations 'to make sure everybody had the same amount of options'. When I asked why asexuals weren't present in their lineups of valid orientations deserving of an equal share of all these hypothetical romances, the response was essentially 'there aren't that many of those people compared to us, it'd be dumb to waste development time on them'. That's pretty much when I just stopped caring about "representation" as a concept in entertainment. It's inherently hypocritical. And the dumbest thing is that mechanically, implementing asexuality as an option in games with existing romances would be almost effortless, and wouldn't just cater to asexuals. I could name plenty of Bioware romances where committing to a relationship while holding off on sex at the very least during the events of the game would make perfect sense as a character choice, and where I actually missed that option. But no, they're just a little too small a fraction of a percent of the human population compared to the other orientations to qualify for the same "representation" rights, so why would anyone feel the same level of obligation to advocate for them?
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Post by jrpN7 on May 13, 2021 2:04:28 GMT
Yawn. Realistically, I think it would be good for straight male gamers to play a gay male lead for once. See reality through another's lenses. Experience something new. Zeus knows women and gay men have been having to peer through a straight male lens since forever. If you enjoy it, it's likely because the story and setting was that good. If you don't, well, now you know how easily games can fall flat for you when it isn't catered to your preferences. I replayed Dream Daddy a few months ago. It has no story beyond 'go on gay dates to advance time' and the setting is just some random suburban neighborhood, and it's so full of beautiful life-affirming gay love that I started seeing eggplants on the backs of my eyelids when I closed my eyes, and it's one of my favorite games. What does that mean, going by this magical exercise of yours? Am I a good person? And oh yeah, straight male gamers don't tend to understand what disappointment feels like, or how it feels when something isn't tailormade for your preferences, and that's clearly the main reason there aren't romance options for absolutely everybody in everything. For a moment there, I forgot that we don't experience hardship and aren't inherently capable of empathy like regular people. That's totally not an offensive assumption to make. It's so great that we have people to guide us like this. I remember a few years ago when I was having another conversation about this topic on this board, and it ended (for my part) when someone was complaining about Bioware romances not being split evenly down the line of sexual orientations 'to make sure everybody had the same amount of options'. When I asked why asexuals weren't present in their lineups of valid orientations deserving of an equal share of all these hypothetical romances, the response was essentially 'there aren't that many of those people compared to us, it'd be dumb to waste development time on them'. That's pretty much when I just stopped caring about "representation" as a concept in entertainment. It's inherently hypocritical. And the dumbest thing is that mechanically, implementing asexuality as an option in games with existing romances would be almost effortless, and wouldn't just cater to asexuals. I could name plenty of Bioware romances where committing to a relationship while holding off on sex at the very least during the events of the game would make perfect sense as a character choice, and where I actually missed that option. But no, they're just a little too small a fraction of a percent of the human population compared to the other orientations to qualify for the same "representation" rights, so why would anyone feel the same level of obligation to advocate for them? This is actually really cool- to both you and SirSourpuss for roleplaying this way. It is rare straight men will have anything to do with gay stuff, let alone play as a gay character romancing other men, or even in your case go out of your way to play a gay game that's not well known. You win good person award. Also, Robert off Dream Daddy is like a burnt marshmallow and I love it. Big swoon. I do think AAA games need more screen-time of other sexualities, disabilities and cultures regardless of whether there's a big or small amount of people that fit those categories in the player-base. People everywhere need to see asexuals, among other minorities, and playing one or having a squaddie as one helps all of us learn and, hopefully if done right, understand these people better. Games are fun and entertaining, but hopefully educational and fulfilling too.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2021 2:34:23 GMT
I have been gay Shep probably more than straight. Somewhat depends on interpretation of FemShep/Liara relationship, exclude that and it is 60/40 straight maybe. Done several "we'll bang ok" runs where I only had casual sex. Gone asexual once. I really liked these games, still do. That being the case, why wouldn't I try to see every bit of content the game has to offer? I have never become gayer than I am from playing a Shepard who was gayer than I am. I did not catch teh gay
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Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on May 13, 2021 8:50:45 GMT
I do think AAA games need more screen-time of other sexualities, disabilities and cultures regardless of whether there's a big or small amount of people that fit those categories in the player-base. People everywhere need to see asexuals, among other minorities, and playing one or having a squaddie as one helps all of us learn and, hopefully if done right, understand these people better. Games are fun and entertaining, but hopefully educational and fulfilling too. I was being sarcastic about the good person thing. It actually makes me faintly nauseous that someone would think that way. But thank you anyway. And yeah, Robert is a sad, beautiful trainwreck that one could spend a lifetime slowly fixing. My virtual heart belongs to Hugo though. Cheese, wine, wrestling and literature... he'd be the perfect man if someone threw out his action figures and took a scissor to his manbun. And his son's balls. The thing that makes Dream Daddy magical is that it's dialogue and characters are insanely good, funny, sweet and human, gay or not. You can tell it was written by someone who was really passionate about their idea of a funny and sweet and down-to-earth gay dad dating sim, rather than someone condescendingly hoping to teach people a lesson about gay dads also being people. It's completely non-preachy, just time well-spent in good company, which is something universally appealing. And I didn't go out of my way to play it like I was donating to some charity. I watched someone else give it a try because I thought it sounded like a weirdly niche dating game with a good artstyle, and less than a minute into the let's play - after the hilarious character creation - I knew I had to play it myself because the dialogue and narration and art were just that lovely. I'm sure the potential exists for a great game featuring asexual characters, and every other conceivable minority, but then the focus should be on creating those great games about that, not on showing off those minorities just for the sake of it. People play video games to enjoy them and feel invested, not to be educated about other people's sexual preferences or personal challenges. I don't need a special video game NPC awkwardly foisted on me to understand that someone belonging to a minority is a human being, and I seriously resent the assumption that I or anyone else would. And I find the idea that video game developers should feel compelled to spend resources to make it happen even more ludicrous. Spend your own money on spreading awareness for minorities if you think it's so important. Don't pretend it's other people's moral responsibility.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 13, 2021 9:38:02 GMT
I am curious where the line is draw for representation in terms of sexuality. As this has become a general games discussion and not MELE specific, I'm moving it to the general games section.
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dmc1001
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on May 13, 2021 10:27:21 GMT
As a white male, I continue to play exclusively as a white male. ... I don't mean this as a knock against you but diversity of behavior is actually most accurate. Not being very diverse in your behaviour though.. Oh? I said diversity of behavior is mot accurate, not race or gender. For example, I've had my "gay card" taken away because I don't fit the perceived norms. That's diversity is behavior. Another example is that I fit in well here while other gays ran for the hills. Seriously, they left for another forum and ended up booting me for having different behavior/thinking. That's diversity of behavior, even if - especially if - it excludes me.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 13, 2021 10:45:53 GMT
jesus guys i was just trollin tryin to toe the line of getting banned. And yet you made a thread that was of high interest. The only "ban" I've ever seen here was the Politics thread, which is long gone. Don't know that any users were banned over it.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on May 13, 2021 11:51:27 GMT
I have very little interest in romance (and therefore also sexuality) in video game left in me. Once I found romances a great addition to story based games, back when I played Baldur's Gate II and such, but after Dragon Age Origins my interest began to decline steadily. Once in a great while a romance I actually enjoy comes along (like Panam's in Cyberpunk), but some are so boring that I at least temporarily forget that I'm in a romance at all (Cora in MEA).
I play games to unwind from work and whatever other problems show up in my life. I don't mind at all if there's sexuality or representation or diversity and whatnot in a game because I don't pay much attention to it anyway while I'm casually purging the heretic with my Godwyn pattern bolter. I would just prefer to not being preached to. If I wanted to be preached to, I'd join a cult.
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Post by veganzombiebeerfish on May 13, 2021 11:58:35 GMT
If you want evidence of how the cis male patriarchy still permeates the game industry, here you go. Many games have 'boob sliders' in the character design phase. Many also have 'butt sliders'. Outside of porno games, there aren't any with 'package sliders'.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2021 12:32:49 GMT
I Present to You, a Story, in gif...
*** I wont deny I am a troll butBut? I really am trying to have an actual conversation with this question. While trying to do it in a way that doesn't get the mods panties in a bunch. I am curious where the line is draw for representation in terms of sexuality. I love big boobs, giant, real, fake huge fucking boobs, it is my sexuality, I would argue it as part as my sexuality just like that a gay man finds a penis attractive on another male. The closest Bioware has gotten was Isabela, but even then I'd say they were a little too small for me. As you can tell by my name I am in a small niche of dudes who would rather engage in mammary intercourse than vaginal. Is this not the same as a gay man wanting a gay LI? Or for a transexual individual to want to have representation? Is the line orientation and not fetishism? I would argue that my orientation is based on breast size. I would have mammary intercourse with Nicki Valentina Rose even though she is transexual. *** *** Okay, now that that's out of my system... What are your guys(and gals) thoughts. Honestly, I think representation does in fact matter. I'm a straight white guy, it doesn't effect me at all. The problem is that almost acts like camouflage. I see homophobia tossed around my extended pentecostal family all the time. They get offended when two women kiss on the screen. Genuine disgust. What a monumental waste of effort and blood pressure. I give no fucks what other people do in the bedroom but that homophobia festers. Representation helps combat it. There's a balance that needs to be maintained though. A useless character only there for the colour of its skin, gender, or sexual preference is going to do more damage than good.
*** And to you Nat on your choice and careful phrasing of this post...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
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Post by midnightwolf on May 13, 2021 18:24:48 GMT
Why don't you ask yourself why you 'NEED' to be represented.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on May 13, 2021 18:34:51 GMT
If you want evidence of how the cis male patriarchy still permeates the game industry, here you go. Many games have 'boob sliders' in the character design phase. Many also have 'butt sliders'. Outside of porno games, there aren't any with 'package sliders'. Conan Exiles.
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Post by skekSil on May 13, 2021 19:50:19 GMT
Many games have 'boob sliders' in the character design phase. Many also have 'butt sliders'. Can you name a couple? I honestly dont remember any that have those. Though I havent played a lot of games that have any sliders at all lately. Outside of porno games, there aren't any with 'package sliders'. Well there arent many games that have 'Labia majora sliders' either.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on May 13, 2021 20:28:42 GMT
Can you name a couple? I honestly dont remember any that have those. Though I havent played a lot of games that have any sliders at all lately. I don't find them to be very common, either. Most of the time, there will be three body types to choose from, usually with about the same chest proportions, but sometimes with small differences. Off the top of my head, Star Trek Online, Conan Exiles, Dragon's Dogma and Fallout 4 all have separate sliders for breasts. Mind you, I can also think of several games with "dong sliders." Saint's Row 3 and Day Z both had them (though I believe Day Z removed theirs at Microsoft's insistence before it was released on Xbox) and of course the infamous Conan Exiles. I don't think it has much to do with anything except practicality. The truth is that a female character's breasts have a far more visually significant impact on how they look in different clothing outfits than a dong does for male characters, so it wouldn't make as much sense to dedicate resources to it. In Conan it made sense because the original version of the game had full nudity available by default. But not in North America. We get a "censored" version, so I've never experienced the joy of being chased through the night by a wave of barbarians with their dongs flapping in the breeze.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 13, 2021 20:34:04 GMT
If you want evidence of how the cis male patriarchy still permeates the game industry, here you go. Many games have 'boob sliders' in the character design phase. Many also have 'butt sliders'. Outside of porno games, there aren't any with 'package sliders'. That's because you always go for maximum package. What woman wants to see a dude with a 2 inch pecker and raisins for nuts? I pull that slider to the point that my schlong looks like either a tripod or a club to hunt Ice Giants with. Won't even wear pants. Swim in the rivers pantless and watch the big fish try to bite it.
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on May 14, 2021 0:02:31 GMT
Honestly, I think representation does in fact matter. I'm a straight white guy, it doesn't effect me at all. The problem is that almost acts like camouflage. I see homophobia tossed around my extended pentecostal family all the time. They get offended when two women kiss on the screen. Genuine disgust. What a monumental waste of effort and blood pressure. I give no fucks what other people do in the bedroom but that homophobia festers. Representation helps combat it. There's a balance that needs to be maintained though. A useless character only there for the colour of its skin, gender, or sexual preference is going to do more damage than good. Heh. I've worked at construction sites for years, and known more than a few really cool guys who I could honestly never imagine disrespecting anyone to their faces, who might suddenly go off on a tangent about the evil homos or the exploitative immigrants just because something came on the radio and they were having a bad day, had had too much coffee or were spending the lunch break trying to dig splinters out of their hands with a boxcutter. What you're describing just sounds like an awkward moment at Thanksgiving to me. Or it might if I was American and celebrated Thanksgiving. To my mind, people can be disgusted with whatever they want. Just because you think it's ignorant and dumb doesn't mean it isn't their right to feel that way for whatever reason, or that they need to be reprogrammed somehow. Having a frank conversation about something that you think might help them feel more compassion is totally normal, but trying to manipulate them into changing their thinking just because you don't like it is something else. Running your mouth about some group or other in a safe atmosphere and looking someone in the eye and trying to hurt them are two completely different things, and if someone isn't hurting anyone then I don't care who they think they have a problem with. I simply don't believe we're ever going to get society to a point where people's frustrations and fears and insecurities and competitive natures won't sometimes compel them to resent each other for arbitrary and irrational reasons. If there's something I've noticed over the past few years, it's that making a big effort to dispel certain prejudices does nothing to lower the overall level of prejudice in our cultures. The tensions and pigheadedness just go elsewhere. If you want evidence of how the cis male patriarchy still permeates the game industry, here you go. Many games have 'boob sliders' in the character design phase. Many also have 'butt sliders'. Outside of porno games, there aren't any with 'package sliders'. Indeed, the cis male patriarchy is truly out of control. The boob options and lack of adjustable dicks I could forgive, but what really pisses me off is all the butt sliders. How are those not unisex? It's disgustingly sexist. What is even the point of video games if that's the world we're escaping to? Someone really should do something. I think I'll raise my daughters to become video game developers so they can help clean up this pigsty. It's for a worthy cause. I'm sure their own dreams wouldn't have amounted to anything anyway.
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Post by General Mahad on May 14, 2021 0:44:51 GMT
If you want evidence of how the cis male patriarchy still permeates the game industry, here you go. Many games have 'boob sliders' in the character design phase. Many also have 'butt sliders'. Outside of porno games, there aren't any with 'package sliders'. I mean cis males are the primary consumers of those games and sex sells.
That being said, there's far, far less of those games with those options here in the west compared to say Japan.
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Post by KingDarious BBB on May 14, 2021 9:16:45 GMT
I honestly don’t get why people compare women boobs (Especially people that are for free the nips) and butts to men penis size or bulges. Wouldn’t a better argument be for more male butt shots and more shirtless scenes involving men? I feel like if we ever get a game or film that focuses on the male private era, people on the other side will cry and complain about a lack of camel toe or something. Also how are we defining “straight male gamers” because as a straight black male gamer I’ll argued I haven’t been catered to that much (Still waiting for BioWare to give me one black woman as a romance option).
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Post by skekSil on May 14, 2021 15:16:30 GMT
We need a 'hairyness of a chest' slider for male characters.
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Post by General Mahad on May 14, 2021 15:50:20 GMT
We need a 'hairyness of a chest' slider for male characters. This human is alright.
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on May 15, 2021 14:57:42 GMT
I honestly don’t get why people compare women boobs (Especially people that are for free the nips) and butts to men penis size or bulges. Wouldn’t a better argument be for more male butt shots and more shirtless scenes involving men? I feel like if we ever get a game or film that focuses on the male private era, people on the other side will cry and complain about a lack of camel toe or something. Also how are we defining “straight male gamers” because as a straight black male gamer I’ll argued I haven’t been catered to that much (Still waiting for BioWare to give me one black woman as a romance option). Or you could just compare them to characters with adjustable or idealized muscles and pec sizes if we really want to be fair, since those are the actual male equivalent. It's a silly, entirely puritanical thing to argue, and pretty hypocritical considering the longstanding tradition of muscular, physically idealized men in tight, form-fitting costumes that leave nothing to the imagination everybody has grown up with from video games, movies and comic books. The covers of half of which feature Spiderman prostrating himself for the camera in positions that any feminist would call exploitative and objectifying if it had been a woman. Not to say that overly sexualized appearances can't be weird and out of place, of course. In this instance I'm pretty sure it was a joke though. If ME4 has romance options and humanity is still around, I can't imagine that at least one of them won't be a black or mostly black woman. There's no reason why not, given the setting. If DA4 doesn't go there first, that is, since the game is going to be central-Thedasian and is probably going to have more Rivaini-born people, and Bioware is clearly very eager to atone for their biases. I'm sure you don't have much longer to wait, in any case. Here's hoping she'll be an actually well-written and likable and engaging character too, on top of being the first romancible black woman in a Bioware game. In which case I'm sad to say you're probably going to have to share her. Would have been nice if Shepard had gotten the opportunity to put the moves on Dr. Brynn Cole like you can with Diane Allers. She seems a bit flirty on the mission to rescue Cerberus scientists and in her subsequent private message if you let Jacob die on the Collector base, and she's way cooler and hotter than Allers. A single heady encounter with her after her rescue or during Citadel could have been very sweet.
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 15, 2021 16:54:45 GMT
We need a 'hairyness of a chest' slider for male characters. With presets ranging from "I've yet to hit puberty" to "this isn't a sweater".
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veganzombiebeerfish
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Posts: 21 Likes: 17
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Mar 20, 2019 14:19:23 GMT
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veganzombiebeerfish
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Feb 13, 2019 22:23:00 GMT
February 2019
dragonflambe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by veganzombiebeerfish on May 16, 2021 13:03:15 GMT
We need a 'hairyness of a chest' slider for male characters. With presets ranging from "I've yet to hit puberty" to "this isn't a sweater". So now we're hair-shaming? Let's try to be more sensitive and caring.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
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SirSourpuss
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Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 16, 2021 14:09:54 GMT
With presets ranging from "I've yet to hit puberty" to "this isn't a sweater". So now we're hair-shaming? Let's try to be more sensitive and caring. Hey, I'm in the "this isn't a sweater" category. And I wear it proud.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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guest@proboards.com
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2021 16:13:12 GMT
With presets ranging from "I've yet to hit puberty" to "this isn't a sweater". So now we're hair-shaming? Let's try to be more sensitive and caring. Is this a tongue in cheek joke? If it is, please ignore the following as I am too dense for comedy: Pre-puberty men (we call them boys, with no shame for any party) do not have chest hair. This is a known fact, has been known for centuries, and is not changing not has it ever. Really hairy dudes don't care about being shamed, they know they're Yetis and have gotten over it, because men have to get over shit sometimes and have a sense of humor about a trait they have. So, I appreciate the thought here, but you are doing it wrong. This is not body shaming, for the love of god.
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