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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Nov 14, 2016 9:11:00 GMT
I am usually not bothered by a few bugs that are left in games like a few skills not working properly or being glitchy but after playing DAI for 100 hours trough the campaign the game breaking bugs are getting more and more annoying to the point of becoming unbearable.
I am talking about the dreaded stand and do nothing bug. This happens so very often it's just not funny anymore. The game has turned to baby sitting party members every few moments checking if they're bugged or not. Losing fights because of this just feels terrible. At this point I would be better off turning off the trials and lower the difficulty just to skip the clumsy combat, but then why am I even playing trough it.
Then there is the awful targeting mechanic and awkward movement which makes playing classes like dagger rogue very clumsy and unresponsive.
And don't even get me started on characters getting stuck on tiny pebbles in terrain during combat, skills not connecting properly, or just character movement over z-axis and terrain in general is mind numbing bad. I am seriously worried about ME Andromeda if it's going to use the same engine with this horrible, wonky movement.
All of this worked far better and more smooth in DA2, no matter how much everyone bashes that game - combat had no mechanical bugs and everything worked like it should. I played several times trough that game without ever getting frustrated with combat mechanics but it just takes one afternoon of DAI combat to grow some new gray hairs. And I am pretty sure I am never ever touching DAI with all it's bad fetch quests, material grind and terrible gameplay again. Also Hawke was a lot more interesting as a protagonist, can't believe I'm about to say this but I think DA2 was better.
After checking the bug collection thread on the forums and realising this is just the gist of it and there are several other bugs with skills that don't work at all (but I can live with that since Mass Effect had a few of those too) and several others, I am just becoming baffled and am really wondering how could they release this buggy pile of mess, and dare even charge DLC for it?
I mean come on guys, the combat has literally a game breaking bug that happens in pretty much every single encounter, on top of all the other mess, it makes up for a terrible experience. I am actually leaning towards saying that this game is terrible as a whole and not worth buying or suggesting to anyone. Now I am starting to understand where all the bad reviews and opinions are coming from, when the rose colored glasses of first impressions have finally settled over.
Why did they not address these bugs but releasing more DLC was okay? Does EA get all the blame again and Bioware gets away with it? Did Bioware ever get any official response on this? I am just completely baffled that the game still exists in this broken state today.
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Current location: Tuchanka
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3tWits
PSN: The3tWits
Prime Posts: 24,721
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Post by lynroy on Nov 14, 2016 9:22:02 GMT
Frozen companions is not a game breaking bug--a minor annoyance but it does not hinder your progress in game. Game breaking bugs are ones that put the game in an unplayable state so you can't move on. Seriously, have you ever played a Bethesda game?
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Nov 14, 2016 9:56:15 GMT
It is game breaking for me. It happens very often and is everything else but a "minor" annoyance. I often have to restart or reload several fights when the fight takes a wrong turn because someone fell asleep during battle. I have never seen this in any other rpg. It's unacceptable for a game of this standard. We did not have this in any other previous Bioware titles, how is this a standard for quality now? Do we just let them keeping bugs like this in future games?
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 14, 2016 10:26:55 GMT
It's an annoying bug, but I've never lost a fight because of it.
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Nov 14, 2016 10:37:06 GMT
Did you play on nightmare with all the trials turned on? Without the trials the fights are a lot easier and at that point you don't even need all the party members, but with everything turned up you need them to do their part. And it can be a really big deal if for example your mage stops casting barriers or somebody just stands still in aoe.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 14, 2016 10:51:59 GMT
It was being developed in-house for too many platforms undergoing too many retroactive changes I think. Also, some is just bad programming like really bad. I noticed a lot of hardcoded mechanics like music cues and the way the camera works; when you's looting and flick the left stick the camera starts panning, so the way the camera behavior works is independant of you character's position or rotation actually. It just looks if you're holding left and then it starts to pan as if you're controlling the camera instead of making the camera follow the player in some way.
Also, the pivot for the non-cinematic camera angles are terrible. When you hold conversations the camera anchor is next to nothing putting both talking characters somewhat out of focus, and when closing rift gates it's even more out of focus while the field of view is zoomed in. So many carelessly implemented mechanics that they never patched.
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Post by shechinah on Nov 14, 2016 10:53:39 GMT
I am usually not bothered by a few bugs that are left in games like a few skills not working properly or being glitchy but after playing DAI for 100 hours trough the campaign the game breaking bugs are getting more and more annoying to the point of becoming unbearable. 1. I am talking about the dreaded stand and do nothing bug. This happens so very often it's just not funny anymore. The game has turned to baby sitting party members every few moments checking if they're bugged or not. Losing fights because of this just feels terrible. At this point I would be better off turning off the trials and lower the difficulty just to skip the clumsy combat, but then why am I even playing trough it. 2. All of this worked far better and more smooth in DA2, no matter how much everyone bashes that game - combat had no mechanical bugs and everything worked like it should. I played several times trough that game without ever getting frustrated with combat mechanics but it just takes one afternoon of DAI combat to grow some new gray hairs. 3. I mean come on guys, the combat has literally a game breaking bug that happens in pretty much every single encounter, on top of all the other mess, it makes up for a terrible experience. Why did they not address these bugs but releasing more DLC was okay? Does EA get all the blame again and Bioware gets away with it? Did Bioware ever get any official response on this? I am just completely baffled that the game still exists in this broken state today. 1. If it is the bug that I'm thinking of then I've heard making the character jump or having them disengage and then re-engage has solved it for some. It was apparently caused by patching*.
2. Dragon Age: II did have combat mechanic-related bugs such as the greyed out potion bug.
3. A game-breaking bug is one that renders the game impossible or nearly impossible to play or continue to play a game. If you can continue to play your game albeit on a lowered difficulty then it dosen't constitute a game-breaking bug. It's a frustrating bug that severely lowers or completely ends your enjoyment of the game but it's not a game-breaking one and it does not render the state of the game broken.
4. Bioware gets away with nothing and if people think they do, they make sure Bioware knows what they think of it.
Note: *Contrary to popular belief, patching is not easy, can be expensive and it is more or less impossible to make a game free of bugs both pre-launch and post-launch. The bigger and longer a game is, the more likely it is that players will encounter bugs. This is not directed at you, OP, it's just something I wanted to post in advance.
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Post by Gilli on Nov 14, 2016 14:32:36 GMT
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Nov 14, 2016 15:30:41 GMT
I did read the guide before posting this thread, but I still had to get this off my chest. Terrible skill connects / z axis movement aside, the "party member afk" bug is something you would consider a top priority to fix after releasing a broken game, they had several patches and did not adress it. I still did not get an answer in what other rpg games is this considered "normal"? It is a huge deal and I sure hope we don't get this crap in Andromeda since they're running on the same engine. This bug alone, coupled with the fetch and collector (shards) quests is annoying me enough that this will probably be my first and last playtrough, unlike with the first two games which I replayed several times. If you have OCD completing this game can be a bit painful to say the least. If I ever decide to replay this pile of mess, it will probably have to be on easier difficulty and cheat mods for materials to skip the gathering grind. It's just not worth it, far too much "busywork" and every combat encounter becomes a chore when your characters continously get stuck either on terrain or just completely frozen. And how good the story arc and conversations are, there's far too little of it compared to how much busywork and OCD collecting this game is filled with. I wish I could ignore the collecting quests, but I can't, and it's taking away from my experience. |
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Post by shechinah on Nov 14, 2016 16:05:27 GMT
I did read the guide before posting this thread, but I still had to get this off my chest. Terrible skill connects / z axis movement aside, the "party member afk" bug is something you would consider a top priority to fix after releasing a broken game, they had several patches and did not adress it. I still did not get an answer in what other rpg games is this considered "normal"? It is a huge deal and I sure hope we don't get this crap in Andromeda since they're running on the same engine. This assumes that they put no effort towards it. Patching involves finding the cause of a bug, what was caused by the bug, replicate it and find a way to fix it without causing one or more bugs. Given that they patched other issues, it is likely that they were never able to find the source of it. Seldom do a developer want a bug like that in their game: it happens and it sucks especially for players.
www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/how-hard-is-a-glitchbug-to-fixi-mean-really-29176567/
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Post by Gilli on Nov 14, 2016 16:29:35 GMT
I did read the guide before posting this thread, but I still had to get this off my chest. Terrible skill connects / z axis movement aside, the "party member afk" bug is something you would consider a top priority to fix after releasing a broken game, they had several patches and did not adress it. I still did not get an answer in what other rpg games is this considered "normal"? It is a huge deal and I sure hope we don't get this crap in Andromeda since they're running on the same engine. This bug alone, coupled with the fetch and collector (shards) quests is annoying me enough that this will probably be my first and last playtrough, unlike with the first two games which I replayed several times. If you have OCD completing this game can be a bit painful to say the least. If I ever decide to replay this pile of mess, it will probably have to be on easier difficulty and cheat mods for materials to skip the gathering grind. It's just not worth it, far too much "busywork" and every combat encounter becomes a chore when your characters continously get stuck either on terrain or just completely frozen. And how good the story arc and conversations are, there's far too little of it compared to how much busywork and OCD collecting this game is filled with. I wish I could ignore the collecting quests, but I can't, and it's taking away from my experience. Then you could've written a post there, because that is what that thread is for. That bug appeared after one of the later patches and Bioware tried to fix it, but couldn't. I'm now speaking out of my own experience and say, this bug is NOT a game-breaking bug.
Difficulty: Nightmare
Trials: Even Ground, Take It Slow, Grizzly End, don't remember if I used Walk Softly
Around 4:00-4:12 minutes Cass is no help. Was it annoying? Yes Was it game breaking? No, my game didn't crash, I didn't lose any save games = not game breaking. Liking Fetch Quests is subjective. You don't like them, while I do. I have 4 finished PTs and 3 started PTs, in all my finished PTs I got every Shard, upgraded all Potions/Grenades/Tonics, etc not because I have to, but I like doing that. Also, this is not meant to judge you, just a question, why do you start a game you never played before on Nightmare with all Trials turned on? Especially with Walk Softly (which will even promote Barriers and make them nearly undestroyable) and Rub Some Dirt On It turned on? I get that people want a challenge, I played it on all difficulties to get the achievements, but personally I prefer playing on Hard with 3-4 Trials on. It is still challenging, but not as frustrating as fighting something with an unkillable barrier. |
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 14, 2016 16:35:55 GMT
Specifically for the "zoning out" bug, I remember the Devs talking about this. For whatever reason, they couldn't fix it for this game (it was particularly onerous apparently). I think they managed to mitigate some of it, but obviously not all of it.
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 14, 2016 16:45:00 GMT
Did you play on nightmare with all the trials turned on?. I don't. That strikes me as a little looney. You know not all the trials are necessary all the time, right? If you want sufficient challenge, you can just turn on Walk Softly and Rub Some Dirt On It. |
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Current location: Tuchanka
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3tWits
PSN: The3tWits
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Post by lynroy on Nov 14, 2016 17:54:29 GMT
It is game breaking for me. It happens very often and is everything else but a "minor" annoyance. I often have to restart or reload several fights when the fight takes a wrong turn because someone fell asleep during battle. I have never seen this in any other rpg. It's unacceptable for a game of this standard. We did not have this in any other previous Bioware titles, how is this a standard for quality now? Do we just let them keeping bugs like this in future games? You keep using game breaking. It does not mean what you think it means. The game is completely playable from start to finish with a few minor glitches that will creep up. Far better than it was at first release, especially on PC. All you have to do to wake up a frozen companion is switch to the one that is sleeping and jump. Simple. Game goes on. All games have glitches whether you choose to notice them or not. Bethesda is nicknamed Bugthesda for a reason. Games are becoming more complicated, so bugs in the code will never go away. Some can be fixed, but not all. Finding and trying to fix them is difficult to do. I know it's frustrating and sometimes you just have to vent. |
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Post by shechinah on Nov 14, 2016 17:59:53 GMT
I think deal-breaker would be the better word than game-breaker to use.
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Nov 15, 2016 11:56:26 GMT
All right maybe game breaking was not the right term to use, I'm used to using it more often from a reddit community where we use it more loosely and kind of an inside joke sometimes so it didn't translate well here.
Yeah, indestructable barriers are a pain (and extremely hard on earlier levels, where it was impossible to beat a mage without a spell breaker in your party) and I like it this way. This makes any spellcaster an extremely deadly and a serious threat, and also any indestructible guard tanks as well. You absolutely have to spec your party to have strong anti-barrier, anti-guard and other sinergistic mechanics from early on and change gear or characters with different talents on the way.
I will never forget our first encounter with apostates in the Hinterlands; they were truly as powerful and devastating to face as the game lore makes them sound like, and the whole "Mages breaking loose" story party really made sense, it felt like a real chaotic outbreak with danger behind every corner. We were not prepared and the first few times they just butchered our party, I had to come back later with better counters to barrier spam and learning to avoid those bloody ice mines that can one shot even my frontliners.
I found this level of brutal (but beatable) difficulty very engaging, but the more I progressed in the game (and more abilities were added), the more I started noticing how clunky the combat really is, and eventually discovering that it was often party members falling asleep what killed my party.
Thanks for the answers tough, glad to hear that Bioware was at least trying to fix it. I would imagine it was not such a big deal without going all yolo on the difficulty, it's just that the older DA games were far too easy to beat and I like some challenge in my rpg.
But still.. this bug should be the first thing to address way back in the alpha stage, it's a bug that could eventually repeat itself even in their future games using this engine. It's just one of those things that you don't have the time for when EA is breathing down your neck to release the game asap. I guess game-breaking does not hold the same impact for Bioware or this community, as it does for games developed by Blizzard (which I am guilty of being a fanboy), that have a very high standard of polish and bugs like this would certainly be considered unplayable by their standards. It's just that I was having the same appreciation, respect and expectations from Bioware as I did for Blizzard (and worthy mention for the Witcher developers), the fact that how unfinished this game was on release (and still is) was a huge letdown for me and it's making my expectations for their future titles (while they are a part of EA at least) very low. It's just something I did not expect from Bioware.
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Post by shechinah on Nov 15, 2016 12:50:31 GMT
I found this level of brutal (but beatable) difficulty very engaging, but the more I progressed in the game (and more abilities were added), the more I started noticing how clunky the combat really is, and eventually discovering that it was often party members falling asleep what killed my party. Thanks for the answers tough, glad to hear that Bioware was at least trying to fix it. I would imagine it was not such a big deal without going all yolo on the difficulty, it's just that the older DA games were far too easy to beat and I like some challenge in my rpg. As far as I know, this bug came about as a result of post-launch patching: it didn't exist in any of the pre-launch development stages like the alpha stage so this wasn't something they could have addressed during development.
I am sorry to hear you did not enjoy Inquisition: if you decide to, I hope the next game will be more to your liking and that you will hopefully have a better gameplay experience.
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Nov 15, 2016 13:12:17 GMT
Wow so this bug appeared during patches? Ok so this is a pretty big deal, and it really answers the question in the OP title. Damn. Well, that's really inconvenient for a bug like this to come out of nowhere. They also probably have a limited time/funding reserved for future patches and updates after release, so that explains why there was no time to fix it, kind of like the new bugs introduced in ME3MP with their last expansion.
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Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 20, 2016 22:17:36 GMT
Frozen companions is not a game breaking bug--a minor annoyance but it does not hinder your progress in game. Game breaking bugs are ones that put the game in an unplayable state so you can't move on. Seriously, have you ever played a Bethesda game? I have Trespasser. I can't detonate one of the mining platforms because the game won't let me. I can't move forward. Yeah, this is DLC, but it's still game breaking. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 21, 2016 22:39:08 GMT
Because BioWare is incompetent. I had 4 or 5 freezes that weren't even technical issues. It was just bad programming. The dialogue wheel didn't show up in important cutscenes in very specific moments and would sometimes break the game unless I spammed the skip button as fast as I could.
Krem can never sit on her chair and drinks while she talks, Josephine writes with a floating pencil that goes through her hand the entire game, Cassandra's default position at Skyhold never seemed right to me, the sound is always missing for 4-5 seconds if you use a mechanic that hasn't been done for a while or when the game loads. The war table music would keep playing outside of the war table until 4-5 months in with a patch because the fast-travel from the war table mechanic was poorly programmed. NPCs don't have proper behavior, they have scripted paths they can't even follow without flying all over or merging through walls. The tactical camera returned without an on/off pause feature but instead you have to hold down the attack button the entire time you want time to flow making your index finger irritated and strained. The tactical camera is used as an actor in the game world so it gets stuck on obstacles and doesn't work as a tactical cam should on PC.
The game is just incompetently put together and still is. It's a good game on many levels, but it's also a really bad game on others.
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Post by harsano on Nov 22, 2016 0:15:43 GMT
It's a buggy game. I've also experienced some stuff, but never anything "game breaking". Worst is my companions not moving, but that's rare and I just have to switch to that companion for them to move again. Same solution (i think) for the (even more rare) health bars disappearing. No big deal.
What's most annoying is my elemental mines flying in the air when someone has Kitty's Collar on. But again, nothing making it unplayable; I just keep it off.
Not saying these issues should be ignored, of course. Perhaps with more time and such there would be less bugs for a game this size or larger? But taking DAI with its flaws for what it is, it can still be an enjoyable game, and a game you can play from start to finish. There are a lot of positive things in Inquisition as there are bugs. Moving on with it disgruntled, you may not enjoy it regardless. And if the bugs bother you so much, maybe you'd want to avoid the Descent dlc.
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 22, 2016 0:25:53 GMT
The Storm Coast is a mess, but I found the rest of DAI to run pretty well on XBox One. Biggest issue I had was, ironically, introduced by a patch.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 22, 2016 0:39:45 GMT
I was fortunate that I had no issues when I got the game for the ps3. The only complaint I had was the hair. I got the game of the year edition for the ps4 and haven't had any issues except for the hair.
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Post by phoray on Nov 22, 2016 1:10:07 GMT
Other than companions being silly. And the banter bug. I have not had any of the other bugs people have mentioned in this thread at all during three play throughs.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 22, 2016 2:51:42 GMT
It's all relative.
Compared to other AAA games I've played in the last 3 years or so, DAI was rock solid in comparison. Particularly for a Frostbite game.
The first release of Battlefield games are much, much worse. 'Course, they are online MP so there's a whole other layer of complexity to deal with. But even ignoring netcode issues, the map glitching and clip issues are pretty bad in the first month or so after release. It's become something of a meta-game to try to find the game breaking glitches in the first month and troll other players.
I had way more trouble with Fallout 4. There were several quests that were blocked due to some bug. All kinds of weird spikey render problems. Invisible NPCs (turns out they fell through the ground, which sometimes happens to the PC). AI problems.
Witcher 3 had horrendous render issues on my rig, and I had pretty close to recommended specs. Every surface had a flickering herringbone pattern on it. Made my eyes bleed. Also had some weird physics glitches and a lot of CTDs. And the longest loading screens of all time.
So if you want to call Bioware incompetent, fine, but that means everyone else is criminally incompetent.
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