Destructive Deer
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Post by Destructive Deer on Dec 2, 2016 22:57:36 GMT
If this topic has been done before, pardon me. If this post HASN'T been done before, what is wrong with you people hurray!
I was listening to the Stark and Targaryen theme and somehow it reminded me of Dragon Age. Then I started to think about what Dragon Age could possibly learn from GoT, since both are very strong in their stories, but I think GoT still takes the cake due to how unpredictable and refreshing the story is. So now my question to you; do you think DA should take notes from GoT? Of course I'd love to know why you think yes or why you think no. (And if you think yes, WHAT should DA learn/take from it)
I know the question is a bit vague, but I don't mean that DA should exactly copy GoT, because that would be insane(LY AWESOME! No seriously it would be insane. Would be cool for a new IP though!).
My personal views: I'd love to see more meaningful deaths/consequences and I love love LOOOVVVVEEEE the grey area characters in GoT and think they would do great in DA as well. Also the character motivations in GoT are more believable than in DA. In GoT people work together if they both gain a benefit from the co-operation, but in DA I feel that this sometimes is a bit.... iffy... "We're together because the power of friendship!" is often what it feels to me.
Also GOT often has me completely in the dark as to what is going to happen next, whereas with Dragon Age I can reasonably predict it. Of course this is partially caused by the whole "your character cannot die" (maybe though should break the mold of that idea as well though... just try it? Huge financial gamble though) but even DA:I was pretty... straight forward. Bad guy shows up, bad guy wants end of the world, end of the world must be prevented, show off with bad guy (that was pretty .... meh) world is saved, everyone happy, THE END. And then WOOPS WHAT A TWIST! a la M N Shyamalan as Solas shows up.
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Post by Natashina on Dec 2, 2016 23:31:30 GMT
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Destructive Deer
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Post by Destructive Deer on Dec 3, 2016 0:46:42 GMT
Nope, I did not know that! That's quite interesting though. Gaider has left the DA writing team though, so I wonder how much of that inspiration will stick around. And I'll add "Depends" to the poll!
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Post by Natashina on Dec 3, 2016 0:53:16 GMT
I'm betting the inspiration is going to stick around. Patrick Weekes is the current lead writer and he's worked for BioWare for a long time. He also wrote The Masked Empire which I think has a bit of a GoT flavor to it. Plus, Gaider had stated before he left that he was leaving the writing team in good hands. Weekes wrote mostly for ME games before coming over to the DA team. I think they'll continue their own spin on George R.R. Martin books for however long the series lasts. Of course, it's a matter of opinion on how close or far the DA series is from the GoT books. The "dark fantasy" debate isn't one I'm touching with a ten foot pole though. I know better.
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Post by phoray on Dec 3, 2016 2:05:33 GMT
I tried to watch that show about two or three times. First they killed papa stark, and I quit for months. Then family tried to drag me back in. And I liked the blonde dragon lady finding her own strength and falling in love with the War Dude. Loved her brother dying. But then she turned around to chase the throne that she hadn't wanted 5 minutes before, following in the footsteps of her effed up brother. And I quit again. Somwwhere in there, I got severely annoyed that they introduced Winter coming, and apparently don't explore that story line for a couple of seasons. And it was the only bit of the story I was even interested in.
Also, they keep killing people, meaning you can never really get attached to anyone. Also, it's based on a book series with no end.
So, no. I really hope they don't take ideas from Game of Thrones.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 3, 2016 4:05:07 GMT
My personal views: I'd love to see more meaningful deaths/consequences and I love love LOOOVVVVEEEE the grey area characters in GoT and think they would do great in DA as well. Also the character motivations in GoT are more believable than in DA Stated that way, I voted yes, but who would vote no? It's a bit hard to imagine why anyone would not want those elements in a story. It's kind of like asking, "Should DA4's story follow good principles of modern storytelling?"
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Post by thats1evildude on Dec 3, 2016 7:38:08 GMT
Thing is, the elements that work in a story aren't necessarily translatable to a video game. Let's imagine a game based on the story of Eddard Stark (spoilers!). He goes to King's Landing, sits on the council, makes some ultimately pointless investigations into the death of Jon Arryn, gets in one fight with Jaime and is finally executed. He doesn't even do any side quests, unless "find a waterdancing instructor for Arya" counts. Not the most compelling of game narratives. However, I'd be up for incorporating more gratuitous nudity.
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Post by Anthreya on Dec 3, 2016 17:06:52 GMT
I voted no.As much as I love high fantasy novels,I quited them after reading 4th book.Way too much doom and gloom for my taste.
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Post by Destructive Deer on Dec 3, 2016 17:35:08 GMT
My personal views: I'd love to see more meaningful deaths/consequences and I love love LOOOVVVVEEEE the grey area characters in GoT and think they would do great in DA as well. Also the character motivations in GoT are more believable than in DA Stated that way, I voted yes, but who would vote no? It's a bit hard to imagine why anyone would not want those elements in a story. It's kind of like asking, "Should DA4's story follow good principles of modern storytelling?" Well, apparently - as of now - 72% would vote no Though I suppose part of the no-voters are also people who simply do not like GoT (HEATHENS!)
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Post by lynroy on Dec 3, 2016 17:43:33 GMT
I've not watched nor have any interest in watching GoT so I have no horse in this race.
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Destructive Deer
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Post by Destructive Deer on Dec 3, 2016 17:45:00 GMT
Thing is, the elements that work in a story aren't necessarily translatable to a video game. Let's imagine a game based on the story of Eddard Stark (spoilers!). He goes to King's Landing, sits on the council, makes some ultimately pointless investigations into the death of Jon Arryn, gets in one fight with Jaime and is finally executed. He doesn't even do any side quests, unless "find a waterdancing instructor for Arya" counts. Not the most compelling of game narratives. However, I'd be up for incorporating more gratuitous nudity. You're correct in that regard, but that's why I said 'take notes' and not 'accurately copy'
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Post by Destructive Deer on Dec 3, 2016 17:46:41 GMT
I've not watched nor have any interest in watching GoT so I have no horse in this race. Oh don't worry, donkeys are allowed too!
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Post by pensieve on Dec 3, 2016 17:59:45 GMT
I'd say no. I absolutely love the Game of Thrones books but I don't think many of the story lines will work for a game.
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Post by lynroy on Dec 3, 2016 18:38:30 GMT
I've not watched nor have any interest in watching GoT so I have no horse in this race. Oh don't worry, donkeys are allowed too! I found a good substitute. sorry, back to super srs discussion.
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Post by ellehaym on Dec 3, 2016 18:59:29 GMT
Under the current team, I'd have to say no. We got the quest in Orlais when it came to "politics" and many people didn't like that. I personally like events leading to the Landsmeet and choosing the new king of Orzammar much better.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 3, 2016 19:54:58 GMT
When it comes to GoT you need to differentiate between the books and the TV series. The plot lines for certain characters have diverged so much from the books (Sansa Stark for example) that I wonder just how much the story in the final two books is going to resemble what is happening on screen.
DAO seemed closer to GoT in the way the story was handled. You meet Cailan, think "he seems an okay sort of king" and then the next thing you know he's dead. Same for Duncan and he even introduced the narrative. The origin stories had all the elements of betrayal by friends or family (human and dwarf noble or even the mage where you could be the one doing the betraying), nobles exploiting and denigrating the peasantry (city elf and castles dwarf) or simply weird magic that ends up cursing you (Dalish origin). There were a lot of grey areas in the way you handled the main plot (where your PC could actually be responsible for killing off their companions/potential companions and other major characters) and some truly horrific/creepy moments (meeting Hespeth and discovering how brood mothers are made was a prime example). The Battle of Denerim is still the best finale to a DA game to my mind.
I wouldn't have a problem if they returned to this style of story telling but voted "depends" on the basis that I want Dragon Age to have its own identity as a computer game and not simply trying to copy what is perceived as popular/successful in another medium or even in another computer game. What it could learn from GoT is that side quests need to relate to the main plot in some way to make them meaningful. What should also be remembered is that GoT is told from multiple viewpoints, or to put it another way there are multiple PCs. Now in view of how they left the Inquisitor character at the end of Trespasser but their avowed intention to have a new PC each game, there is the potential there to have a multiple viewpoint game play, where we switch from following our old PC to the new one. Provided we are left in control of the characters I wouldn't mind this. What I would not want to happen is simply have cinematic cut scenes showing what is happening elsewhere in the world without us being involved (which is what they did in DAO with Loghain and Howe). For me this would spoil immersion as I am meant to be in the world as a player, not looking in on it as I am in a book or TV series.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 3, 2016 20:24:42 GMT
Stated that way, I voted yes, but who would vote no? It's a bit hard to imagine why anyone would not want those elements in a story. It's kind of like asking, "Should DA4's story follow good principles of modern storytelling?" Well, apparently - as of now - 72% would vote no Though I suppose part of the no-voters are also people who simply do not like GoT (HEATHENS!)Or didn't read your OP and just voted by the poll question. No one has time to read anymore.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 3, 2016 20:32:51 GMT
The plot lines for certain characters have diverged so much from the books (Sansa Stark for example) I would have gone with Barristan The Bold as the most divergent -- since one of them has assumed room temperature while the other hasn't -- but Sansa is definitely on the list, for the better IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 21:15:34 GMT
I put it depends. There are a lot of good things about GoT, but I think on the most part the story is better as a book or tv program, not a video game. It is too gloomy and it would be too disheartening to actually play. Things like; the detail put into each character, the realistic conflicts/emotional struggles/relationships, the beautiful scenery/settings and the willingness to include nude scenes. (not the gratuitous nudity, there would have to be a plausible reason for it or it would have to add to the story)
I wouldn't want to see the characters or the plot copied, but there are some elements of GoT that could be/already are incorporated into the game.
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Post by Croatsky on Dec 5, 2016 15:53:55 GMT
Books, yes. Show, only for first 4 seasons. Last 2 seasons went full Hollywood for better or worse, mostly for worse.
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Post by fylimar on Dec 5, 2016 17:35:27 GMT
I'm a huge fan of Martins novels, watch the show too, but it doesn't come close to the books. I agree with gervaise21, that some elements are already introduced in the games, like the king, who dies through betrayal, the fatherlike figure, who dies by the same betrayal, a lot of conspiracies, that would put Cersei, Littlefinger and Lady Olenna to shame. But there are a lot of things, that would be hard or even impossible to transport into a videogame. I think modern fantasy is influenced by so many books/movies/other games - Gaider already mentioned a lot in his interview -, but one should never become a copy. So I like Westeros and Thedas to stay separate in most aspects.
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Post by Blaze on Dec 6, 2016 11:34:32 GMT
no? i love the "song of ice and fire" books (no i haven't seen the TV, i don't want to see how they ruin the books), it have a great story. i played each dragon age game so far, also great story. does it have better story then dragon age? maybe. do i care? no, why would i? dragon age is dragon age, game of thrones is game of thrones. there are no notes to be taken, i want the writers of dragon age to tell their story.
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Post by eriador117 on Dec 6, 2016 11:50:18 GMT
I gave up on Game of Thrones. There are lots of noble families in it, but no one is really noble in character, except for Ned Stark and they killed him. I don't mind dark fantasy, but I want some light in there as well. GOT just seemed to get darker and darker and after the red wedding they lost me.
I want a dragon age story, not a re-hash of GOT.
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Post by theblackadder13 on Dec 7, 2016 0:54:16 GMT
Under the current team, I'd have to say no. We got the quest in Orlais when it came to "politics" and many people didn't like that. I personally like events leading to the Landsmeet and choosing the new king of Orzammar much better. This is why I voted yes lol. I was about to vote "depends,"then I remembered how infuriatingly abysmal Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts was. People, myself included, didn't dislike the Winter Palace because it was a political plot -- they disliked it because it was a bad, somewhat nonsensical yet utterly predictable political plot. It was a huge disservice to Orlais which we've been told again and again is about "the game." We don't really play the game though. We kill people and find halla statutes. The Exalted Council was also terribly disappointing and lacked substance and is an ugly sore on what was otherwise a pretty flawless DLC. (It was also just downright illogical at times.) The Landsmeet and Orzamar in DA:O were on the right track, as was the subplot in Awakening with the Howe loyalists in Amarnthine. I want more of that. Don't get me wrong, that should never be all of what DA is about but it should be satisfying chunk imo given a lot of the themes the series deals with and the fact that you're often RPing a character from nobility. This is especially important if we're going to Tevinter. They already ruined Orlais, please don't ruin Tevinter! So yeah, I really hope the writers take some inspiration from GOT -- at least in regards to the political subplots.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 7, 2016 1:50:33 GMT
I feel it already has. The word "fuck" appears more in DA:I and there is more talk about sex and no fucks given about sexuality, even if GoT actually makes an issue out of those things.
But nah. I think they should stick to their guns and just make the next game a tad darker so it has more tension. We need one where there's that looming sense of something that's about to happen. DA:I had it with the Breach until you just close that in act 1; a real "WAT...?" moment, and DA2 had it all throughout so much so that however much it may escalate in act 3, by the time before the finale I get this sense of discomfort when i play it becuase you can feel how on edge everything is becoming, even after the big victory over the Qunari siege.
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