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Post by Walter Black on Dec 13, 2016 23:25:21 GMT
Awhile back I was playing Dragon Age 2, wistfully mourning what could have been. I don't think that DA2 is quite as bad as some, though I'm not blind to it's faults. Instead of being able to forge our own heroic destinies with the friends and family of our choosing, we were railroaded into excepting specific loved ones we may or may not care for, causes we might or might not believe in, and adventures we might not be interested in. Not to mention how Hawkes' agency and ability were undercut many times throughout the narrative, and outright stolen at the ending (DAMMIT ANDERS ). That said, I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater. When I say " Dragon Age 2 done right" I don't mean actually remaking DA2, but rather giving the initial concept a second chance. Instead of yet another Save the World plot, we get a smaller, more personal life story that still has epic moments. Instead of a preset player faction versus the Big Bad, allies and enemies you make through your own choices. Instead of assigned friends and family, people who stick by your side only after you've put the time and effort to get to know them. Hell, how about steal a few pages from Obsidian and have an adventure that could optionally be completed without any combat*? Would anyone else like a Dragon Age 2 done right? *I know for a lot of people the Pacifist Run has gotten a bad rap as "boring" and "kiddy". Yes, you could be a Goody Twoshoes who uses idealism, charm and reason to avoid violence and keep everyone safe. But you could also be a Magnificent Bastard who uses pragmatism, lies and manipulation, bribes and intimidation to get away with anything .
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Post by Destructive Deer on Dec 14, 2016 0:04:48 GMT
TBH I think the plot, choices and interactions with the world were one of the (few?) things done right within DA2. Maybe less black and white choices at the end because who sides with the templars at that point?!. The fact that your agency is being taken away at some points is something I like as well. Our hero simply isn't a god and some things are out of their control.
Perhaps what I would want them to change is stop re-using the same goddamn cave every 5 minutes, some better armor designs and letting us customize our companions a lot more. Oh and maybe some (more) non-combat perks like coercion and such (that was removed.... right?). Other than that... Eh. Dragon Age 2 wasn't that bad.
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Post by ellehaym on Dec 14, 2016 1:05:38 GMT
The character interactions and dialogue of DA2 is good, especially since they made it in roughly 2 years?
True, the characters were a bit too "tropey" but how they got along (or not) with each other and their relationship with Hawke was great. Hawke felt like a character whereas Inquisitor's dialogue all seem so neutral outside of DLC content.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 14, 2016 8:06:47 GMT
Dragon Age 2 is a game done right.
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Post by Ponendus on Dec 14, 2016 12:02:11 GMT
I think your ideas all have merit, but much of what you seem to be concerned with from the game is not even nearly on my list of gripes personally. For example the 'Anders issue'. I see what you are saying about player agency being taken, but exactly how much control are you looking for? People make stupid, unexpected and catastrophic mistakes in the world all the time, and you can't control it, only react to it. That was actually the best part of the main game for me. My Hawke was in love with Anders and I've never felt more betrayed, angry and wanting to hold him, kill him and run away with him all at the same. That emotional rush is what makes RPG's amazing for me.
What is important, for me at least, is that you can have player agency with how you react to the stuff you can't control, and I actually think DA2 achieved that quite well. Perhaps I've misunderstood what about the actual event was your concern though, I am no expert by any means.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 14, 2016 12:38:23 GMT
DA2 with a fully self-contained story that doesn't need a sequel to reveal the bigger picture, a DA2 that didn't reuse the same cave and suburbs for 5-6 different and a DA2 that allowed you to customize the full team of companions would've been perfect. Everything as it is in DA2 is totally fine for me, sans the aspects I just mentioned.
Graphically i liked it too but they should've made Kirkwall look more interesting than it does both aesthetically and architectually.
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Post by fenris on Dec 14, 2016 12:41:54 GMT
I'd like to see three things: 1. DA2 remastered - to change all the things DA2 did wrong. 2. A game that has a more personal story, but intertwined with a world saving event (Baldur's Gate showed us that was possible!). 3. A game that has deep companions with their own story and lives, who can become best friends or darkest enemies, depending on your choices.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 14, 2016 18:51:21 GMT
I would like to see DA2 done right, or rather a game following a similar mold, but I think my vision of that would be different from yours. The characters were great and the PC lacking power over events was actually a good idea (Most of the time), rather than being at the heart of events.
What I would have liked to see would be:
1. More variety of environments - By this I mean both not reusing the same environments constantly, but also providing more areas to explore in and around the city. I would have liked to see what the city's wall and gate look like.
2. Taking advantage of the seven year timespan - We should have seen dramatic changes in the landscape and appearance of the city over time, especially where our choices could influence it. For that matter, the one area I really think lacking agency was a problem was the time skips. We should have had some opportunity to define what our character was doing in the intervening three year gaps and have that reflected to some degree in the second and third acts (The choice between the smugglers and mercenaries in the prologue was actually a decent effort at this)
So yeah, I'd like Bioware to take another stab at this structure of a more personal story over a period of time.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Dec 14, 2016 18:57:43 GMT
Awhile back I was playing Dragon Age 2, wistfully mourning what could have been. I don't think that DA2 is quite as bad as some, though I'm not blind to it's faults. Instead of being able to forge our own heroic destinies with the friends and family of our choosing, we were railroaded into excepting specific loved ones we may or may not care for, causes we might or might not believe in, and adventures we might not be interested in. Not to mention how Hawkes' agency and ability were undercut many times throughout the narrative, and outright stolen at the ending (DAMMIT ANDERS ). That said, I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater. When I say " Dragon Age 2 done right" I don't mean actually remaking DA2, but rather giving the initial concept a second chance. Instead of yet another Save the World plot, we get a smaller, more personal life story that still has epic moments. Instead of a preset player faction versus the Big Bad, allies and enemies you make through your own choices. Instead of assigned friends and family, people who stick by your side only after you've put the time and effort to get to know them. Hell, how about steal a few pages from Obsidian and have an adventure that could optionally be completed without any combat*? Would anyone else like a Dragon Age 2 done right? *I know for a lot of people the Pacifist Run has gotten a bad rap as "boring" and "kiddy". Yes, you could be a Goody Twoshoes who uses idealism, charm and reason to avoid violence and keep everyone safe. But you could also be a Magnificent Bastard who uses lies and manipulation, bribes and intimidation to get away with anything . Depends. Would there be an option to play as an elf or a dwarf (like some other folks, such as Faerunner, I don't like playing as an Andrastian human)? Would the city change over the years based on our decisions, rather than remaining static year after year? Would Merrill's story arc actually lead somewhere instead of going absolutely nowhere? Would there be ramifications to my actions, like killing the serial killer who was preying on elven children? While it's realistically too late for Dragon Age II, I genuinely like what you're suggesting - about having allies we earn through our own efforts, gaining enemies we earn due to our choices, having some nonviolent options to resolve issues so that we can use our wits for a change.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 14, 2016 21:03:27 GMT
I also didn't feel DA2 was as bad as some people claimed, although there were certain criticisms I agreed with.
I'd like to see DA2 remade with a fully realised city of Kirkwall, with unique areas within it and beyond its walls (not constantly recycled ones).
I'd like the game to acknowledge if you chose to be a blood mage in the way people react to you and in fact for it to be more risky being a mage within the city, at least during Act 1, when you don't have the wealth to buy off the Templars. Cullen really should have been more wary if you were throwing spells around, regardless of the fact you saved him, and it shouldn't have been so easy for you to just walk in and out of the Gallows.
I'd want a situation where you could never reach a lock in point on friend or rival, so it was possible to lose friendship after gaining it and for your companions to actually reject you if you did something that seemed too extreme and against what they believed. For example, everyone who seemed to like Fenris and see him as a friend actually reject Hawke if they give him back to Denarius.
I didn't mind that ultimately you couldn't stop Anders but I wish they hadn't had the ridiculous situation that you could be standing there with Anders warning Cullen about him. There should have been a break point at the moment you enter the Gallows with him in your party (like there was with Isabella and the Arishok) so such a stupid situation could not arise.
I'd want armour to be able to be used by all people of a similar class and not just Hawke, with it just adapting to their own unique style as with DAI.
If they were remaking DA2, I'd also have liked them to extend the area of the Freemarches you could explore and instead of attending some Orlesian's hunting party in the DLC, have a similar plot taking place at the Grand Tourney, which we could also participate in.
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Post by Gilsa on Dec 14, 2016 23:12:30 GMT
On its own merits, I thought DA2 was perfectly fine. As a returning player, the lack of dwarven content stung especially after they unveiled their concept art redesigns for all the races. I don't mind playing as human because this was a character specific game, no problem, but they DID start the franchise with three playable races and made a big deal about who would rule Orzammar. In DA2, it was barely a footnote. No dwarven female models at all. (They didn't exist.) The dwarven companion wasn't an LI and they wouldn't tell us that up front. We had to get in the game and be disappointed the hard way. That killed the replay-ability of the game for me even though it was a nice game. I didn't have the complaints some others did about reused dungeons and so forth.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Dec 15, 2016 5:36:42 GMT
I have enjoyed DA2 so much that I haven't wanted it remade but rather I would have liked to have more of it. I'd like to have played after Hawke left Kirkwall (with Anders) and gotten to see how everybody handled the next several years.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 15, 2016 5:53:26 GMT
I personally rather have BioWare leave Dragon Age 2 alone since I don't think everyone would be able to agree on what needs to be changed to make it better, which is a similar stance I take on Mass Effect 3. Instead I rather them try the approach they tried with Dragon Age 2 again with a new story in a new game instead of rehashing an old one with baggage.
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Post by Finvola on Dec 15, 2016 17:23:48 GMT
I didn't really care much for DA2 the first time I played it. I only started playing it again a few months back and really thought it wasn't such a bad game. Sure, there are some things that could have been improved like mentioned above, lack of environment, customization, etc, but I still think it's enjoyable. It's a relatively short game, even with the DLC so it's perfect for times I'm not wanting to get too involved with a game. I just fired up DAI for the first time in like 6 months and forgot how long it took to really see some major action. At least with 2, there's pretty much fighting and action everywhere you turn. I think it's fine the way it is.
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Post by eriador117 on Dec 15, 2016 23:05:40 GMT
DA2 is still my favourite game. Yes, they recycled the caves a lot and it would have been good to have some more areas to explore. I liked that Hawke had a family and you got the impression that the companions had a life outside of being with Hawke, with some of their banter etc. It was the characters who made it for me so I suppose in a way, it was the writing I liked. I've never played any other games that have such depth of character as the Bioware ones. But I didn't think it was a bad game at all. I replay it quite often, even though I tend to make the same choices each time If Dragon Age 2 was remastered for the new consoles I would be in a heartbeat, even if all they changed was the graphic definition. But some extra stuff would be nice
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Post by EarthboundNess on Dec 16, 2016 1:38:37 GMT
DA2 had a lot of good amidst a decent amount of weird and wacky design choices, so far as I'm concerned. I'd love to see some of the story concepts and themes revisited, particularly the smaller more personal story that it at least starts off as.
As for a remaster that some are mentioning... I think time spent on that would definitely be better off elsewhere though. X) New stuff is nice.
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Twitter Guru
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 16, 2016 1:43:37 GMT
For a smaller, more personal story, I think it would be fun to play not as the hero, but as an enabler. Essentially, someone who typically does the small things to allow the heroes to do the big things. But somewhere along the way, things go wrong and you wind up in the deep end. But you don't have the hero skillset to just fight your way out of your problems (for the most part). You have to rely on your wits, what's at hand, and your unwavering ability to BS your way out of trouble. For example... after a getting a moles-eye view of the world for a while, one menial task goes horribly sideways, and you find yourself alone behind enemy lines. Now you have to try and impersonate a guard, help sabotage their resources, sow dissent in the ranks, inadvertently get promoted in the process, earn the friendship of all the wrong people, try to make all the wrong decisions (which turn out to be the wrong-wrong decisions), and the hole you dig yourself gets deeper and deeper... Basically, some kind of underdog story.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 16, 2016 3:38:10 GMT
If anything, I like to have Meredith remain alive if Hawke sides with the templars. And if Hawke sides with the mages, Orsino doesn't turn into a big blob of crap.
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Post by phoray on Dec 16, 2016 3:39:54 GMT
For a smaller, more personal story, I think it would be fun to play not as the hero, but as an enabler. Essentially, someone who typically does the small things to allow the heroes to do the big things. But somewhere along the way, things go wrong and you wind up in the deep end. But you don't have the hero skillset to just fight your way out of your problems (for the most part). You have to rely on your wits, what's at hand, and your unwavering ability to BS your way out of trouble. For example... after a getting a moles-eye view of the world for a while, one menial task goes horribly sideways, and you find yourself alone behind enemy lines. Now you have to try and impersonate a guard, help sabotage their resources, sow dissent in the ranks, inadvertently get promoted in the process, earn the friendship of all the wrong people, try to make all the wrong decisions (which turn out to be the wrong-wrong decisions), and the hole you dig yourself gets deeper and deeper... Basically, some kind of underdog story. This reminds me of a story where this guy had saved up enough money to quit his job permanently. But wasn't quite ready o pull the trigger. But the lack of needing the money caused him to stop caring about the endless meetings he hated going to. He'd go, but then leave as soon as it stopped pertaining to him. He also started speaking his mind more. His productivity shot up. They made him employee of the year. And when they held a big party too be him a bonus check on stage, he said, "thanks. And here is my notice."
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Post by Catilina on Dec 16, 2016 4:13:27 GMT
If anything, I like to have Meredith remain alive if Hawke sides with the templars. And if Hawke sides with the mages, Orsino doesn't turn into a big blob of crap. Sadly Meredith is lunatic, and harmed a lot to Kirkwall and the Circle, no matter, Hawke sided templars or mages, and must stopped her. (Also without red lyrum sword, she not suitable for her position – her paranoia make her dangerous.) Of course, it is possible to deprive her of the position, and banish. Yes, probably Orsino's fate a bit odd, if Hawke sided with Mages, but as I see: the mages don't have too much chance against the Templars' overwhelming odds. So: Orsino's desperate somehow justifiable, true, not necessarily in that stupid way...
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Post by themikefest on Dec 16, 2016 4:32:24 GMT
Sadly Meredith is lunatic, and harmed a lot to Kirkwall and the Circle, no matter, Hawke sided templars or mages, and must stopped her. (Also without red lyrum sword, she not suitable for her position – her paranoia make her dangerous.) Of course, it is possible to deprive her of the position, and banish. Yes, probably Orsino's fate a bit odd, if Hawke sided with Mages, but as I see: the mages don't have too much chance against the Templars' overwhelming odds. So: Orsino's desperate somehow justifiable, true, not necessarily in that stupid way... Merdith is not a lunatic. But go ahead and post some reply saying she is. That's what you do , right? With the Orsino clown. He's a sorry excuse of a First Enchanter. Finding out he knew about the dirtbag that had something to do with Leandra's murder. Yeah he's a real winner isn't he? Too bad there wasn't an option to make him tranquil.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 16, 2016 4:54:23 GMT
Sadly Meredith is lunatic, and harmed a lot to Kirkwall and the Circle, no matter, Hawke sided templars or mages, and must stopped her. (Also without red lyrum sword, she not suitable for her position – her paranoia make her dangerous.) Of course, it is possible to deprive her of the position, and banish. Yes, probably Orsino's fate a bit odd, if Hawke sided with Mages, but as I see: the mages don't have too much chance against the Templars' overwhelming odds. So: Orsino's desperate somehow justifiable, true, not necessarily in that stupid way... Merdith is not a lunatic. But go ahead and post some reply saying she is. That's what you do , right? With the Orsino clown. He's a sorry excuse of a First Enchanter. Finding out he knew about the dirtbag that had something to do with Leandra's murder. Yeah he's a real winner isn't he? Too bad there wasn't an option to make him tranquil. Meredith was lunatic from the red lyrium. If we remove the red lyrium from the formula, her paranoia (and extreme cruelty – don't forget: even Elthina don't agree with her methods) and the fact, that she abuse her power, against the Chantry's laws, still remain, and makes her unsuitable. So: in any event, she must be replaced, and banish. She is dangerous, with or without red lyrium, no matter, only the level of danger. Or do you think, a paranoid person the best for lead an army? Orsino was loyal to the Circle (a little too loyal for my taste), true, he was not able to betray the escaped mages. Orsino nothing to do with the death of Leandra. He only knew Quentin, and knew about his studies. Yes, its forbidden knowledges, but still interesting. Orsino don't knew, that Quentin is a crazy murderer. BUT: Meredith was, who stopped the investigations... So: I can agree with you, that Meredith can remain alive (I left Bartrand alive too, so, this is okay for me), but not as Knight Commander, rather prisoner, or fugitive (but this is probably a danger in her condition).
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smellycatbutts
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Post by smellycatbutts on Dec 16, 2016 20:07:38 GMT
DA2 "done right" for me would involve dumping Hawke into the garbage where he/she belongs, and allowing gamers to ACTUALLY create their own PC. DA established itself as a series that allows players to choose from a multitude of fantasy races, but then DA2 forced people to one race. I realize other people like to play garbage humans, but many fans are accustomed to options when playing Bioware games.
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 17, 2016 17:22:03 GMT
Some good responses, but apparently too many people are focusing on the title, and not this part:
NO Hawke and Company, NO Kirkwall, NO Mage versus Templar conflict, etcetera. A brand new story that focuses on a single adventurous life, NOT saving the world with the Justice League of Thedas. Maybe I should change the title...
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Post by shechinah on Dec 17, 2016 17:46:35 GMT
I like having variety so that sometimes the story are grand while other times they are smaller:
I still wouldn't even minded a story that really is just about being a refugee that has to survive and eventually rises in the ranks of society while meeting challenges in different forms. Even when you've become someone of status and wealth, you still have to deal with enemies like political ones and noble ones with some being because you choose to try to change things for the better or worse.
I also wouldn't have minded a game about being a member of C-Sec set on the Citadel. Basically, a cop on a space station for those that don't know Mass Effect.
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