Would anyone want a more personal Dragon Age story, as opposed to yet another Save the World plot?

Dec 18, 2016 17:48:35 GMT smellycatbutts said:

Definitely. Bioware is eager to frame traditional dwarven/elven/qunari culture in a negative context. However, the bad side of human cultures are consistently swept under the carpet, provided a devil's advocate, so to speak. For example, the "elven gods" enslaved their own people. What does Tevinter do? Enslave people. However, the game provides us with banter between Solas and Dorian, wherein Dorian's argues that Tevinter's version of slavery is more like a form of benign servitude. However, the Elven Gods are EVIL for committing slavery, while Tevinter is good and totes worth saving because "you have to look at the context of the situation." Bioware is constantly retconning human history to make humans look better. Meanwhile, Bioware makes no attempt provide us with a different look at dwarven/qunari or elven culture. Underground dwarves are rigid traditionalists who keep the downtrodden down, and exile them if they become too uppity. Qunari are violent extremists who break their own people if they commit the crime of independent thought. The Dalish elves are ignorant, incompetent xenophobes, who really just got what they deserve because they do not accept the one true god.  

Except Dorian is from the upper class and was raised in a pro-slave culture. He likely never saw the life of an average or low slave since it'd be unlikely that they'd be near the heir to a Magister. In all likelihood, the slaves he was most familiar with were likely slaves that were dressed prettily so as to not offend the eyes of the nobles they were around, slaves that were not "difficult" so they would not make an indecent fuss near important people and so on. Dorian's word on slavery should not be taken as the writers' acceptance of slavery in Tevinter but as their way of conveying how non-slaves and some slaves see slavery in Tevinter.

Some of Dorian's arguments in favor of slavery even mirrors real-life old arguments in favor of slavery that I've heard and read. To name some examples: that slavery was beneficial to the slaves because of the idea that it removed them from poorer conditions and improved their life. That the bad slave owners were the problem, not slavery itself.

The previous games have established that slaves in Tevinter don't have many rights and their well-being depends on their master, the previous games have established that people can and are kidnapped from their homes even in other countries to be sold as slaves in Tevinter and so on. Fenris provides several examples of how bad a slave's life can be including how their life only has as much importance as their master consider it to have.

The short story about Calpurnia even displays this such as with a Tevinter who suggests to Calpurnia's master that he should sell her to the Circle because of the magic in her blood. It is presented as being perfectly normal in Tevinter to do so. In another example in the short story, a slave that serves as a guard in the household is sold as a gladiator. A third example is that after Calpurnia's magic is discovered, her master is free to decide whether to sell her on, train her to control her magic or to simply kill her to save himself the inconvenience of having to do either of the prior two.

I do not see how Tevinter is portrayed as being fine and dandy by the writers.

You mention banter between Solas and Dorian so I thought I'd bring this exchange between the two up:

Dorian: "Solas, for what it's worth, I'm sorry."
Dorian: "The elven city of Arlathan sounds like a magical place, and for my ancestors to have destroyed it..."
Solas: "Dorian... hush." 
Solas: "Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more "innocent" than your own Tevinter in its time."
Solas: "Your nostalgia for the ancient elves, however romanticized, is pointless."
Solas: "If you wish to make amends for past transgressions, free the slaves of all races who live in Tevinter today."
Dorian: "I... don't know that I can do that."
Solas: "Then how sorry are you?"

Solas considers Tevinter to be no more innocent than Arlathan was and even questions the sincerety of Dorian's regret because he's expressing reluctance to try to free the slaves in Tevinter.

I should also note that I went looking through the banter page on the Wikipedia and I could not find the banter you're referring to between the two. I think you may be thinking of Dorian's exchange about this with the Inquisitor.  

Note: If anyone would like to continue this line of discussion then I would like to sugges that it be moved to another thread lest it takes over this one.

Dec 18, 2016 19:21:46 GMT lobselvith8 said:

But I'd say that Dorian's words on the matter are an example of providing a particular perspective on the issue, while there's no such pro-Dalish perspective to balance out the waves of negativity aimed towards the Dalish from so many different characters. Even the scene you cited is pretty much aimed at taking the ancient elves down a notch in a game that already spends some time denigrating the elves as it is while not doing the same Andrastian Chantry and Andrastian culture. Much like the incessant ant-Dalish content in Inquisition, one can hold a different view to what's presented based on prior knowledge from codex entries and the like, but the information itself isn't contradicted; it's simply negative.

I probably should have bolded which part of the post I was addressing: I was addressing the example put forth that Tevinter’s slavery was portrayed as positive or, at least, less negatively than that of Arlathan which I disagreed with. Also, Tevinter and Arlathan are alike not just in negatives but in positives. Solas considers Arlathan to be no less innocent than Tevinter but just as Dorian considers there to be something of value to be found in Tevinter underneath all its issues, Solas considers there to have been something of value in Arlathan underneath all of its issues. As far as I can remember, Solas several times remarks on the wonders that were in Arlathan and with the ancient elves.

Dec 18, 2016 19:21:46 GMT lobselvith8 said:

If the OP would prefer this line of discussion to be moved to another thread, I'll certainly respect the decision

It’s certainly not a discussion without merit. I can certainly understand feeling like there was a lacking Dalish perspective to this story given that it involved major revelations about their culture and history. I feel the Inquisitor being Dalish helps mitigate this to a degree but I can see wanting more especially since there are other playable races meaning it depends on the player to provide the Dalish perspective to the revelations. I can see wanting a Dalish companion or character who’d provide their perspective such as how the revelations do not invalidate the attempted culture and religious genocide of their people as perpetrated by the Exalted March as well as the continued persecution and general treatment of elves.

 There are some things, however, that often crops in those discussions that I disagree with such as when I feel the words and opinions of characters are being viewed as being those of the writers especially if the character would have those optinions or biases due to their personality and background. This goes all the way back to Origins and its characters, both companions and npcs. It’s not a recent thing that originated with Inquisition, I should clarify. I also disagree with notions such as that the Chantry is being portrayed as fine and dandy in the game when I don't consider it to be such. An example is how the Chantry alters the portions of history that become inconvenient like Shartan, Ameridan and so on.