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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 20, 2017 22:01:06 GMT
You see him during a "pivotal" story setup sequence... then you don't ever seem to meet him again but everyone in your party is like "THE ARCHON, OH NO, THE ARCHON DID THIS AND THAT, WE MAST STAHP HIM!"
And you don't even understand why. "Cuz, he's doing evil stuff and... stuff!"
There's thus far one good part of this game and that is walking around on the Nexus and speaking to the crew. And know I've heard the ending is a clusterfuck. I'm pretty disappointed.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 20, 2017 22:14:01 GMT
So...basically, you're upset that the Archon is revealed and does villainous actions.
I guess that describes Corypheus. It also describes most villains.
Is this a troll topic?
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Post by cameronlfc on Mar 20, 2017 22:16:08 GMT
*Sigh* Please don't mention the ending, now i'll be expecting a clusterfuck
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Post by doctorsquared on Mar 20, 2017 23:05:01 GMT
The Kett overall are a little strange as villains thematically.
We have the Initiative coming into Helius to settle while there are already local inhabitants. But outside of first contact and us being enemies against the Kett there's not really much conflict brought up over us using our superior tech and knowledge to colonize the area. It isn't really talked about how human colonialism on Earth, Krogan colonialism after the Rachni Wars, the First Contact War, etc. have caused issues in the past which could happen again given how poorly the mission is going.
Meanwhile we have the Kett which seem to be this empire that's moving in, abducting the natives and indoctrinating them into their religion like the European colonists of antiquity. The Exaltation process strips away individual distinctiveness and adds it to the rest of the Kett so they're sort of a mashup of the Necromongers from Riddick, the Covenant from Halo, and the Borg from Star Trek. This would be interesting if they were also trying to colonize Helius but other than converting all life in the area and using Remnant tech to kill all who resist there's not much there.
Saren was a compelling villain because he had understandable, albeit misguided reasons for his actions. Imagine if the Kett were refugees like we were and the Archon was their equivalent to a Pathfinder. That would raise some questions as to who was actually in the right.
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Post by kastrenzo on Mar 21, 2017 14:26:20 GMT
Im not so sure about the part with them transforming other races into themselves, its a little too close to the reapers if you ask me.
I played Stellaris for a long time leading up to this game though, so I have a very open mind when it comes to the different kinds of antagonists.
I think the Kett do have a Primary Species, I think someone suggested that they were the Destined/Archon etc. will probably never know. but the generic space cult shit, is ok with me.
Cultists are stupid and fun to fight.
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Post by Warrick on Mar 21, 2017 16:26:06 GMT
Wasn't the archon the elf ball corypheus used to get into the fade?
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Post by Warrick on Mar 21, 2017 16:29:31 GMT
Wait a second, isn't the archon sort of like the boss of the tevinter imperium?
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 21, 2017 16:45:04 GMT
So...basically, you're upset that the Archon is revealed and does villainous actions. I guess that describes Corypheus. It also describes most villains. Is this a troll topic? It didn't describe Saren... or TIM... or Sovereign... or Anders/Justice... or...
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 21, 2017 20:49:15 GMT
So...basically, you're upset that the Archon is revealed and does villainous actions. I guess that describes Corypheus. It also describes most villains. Is this a troll topic? It didn't describe Saren... or TIM... or Sovereign... or Anders/Justice... or... Show up, do something villainous? That sounds like Saren to me. And Anders. And Sovereign. The fact that they don't believe themselves to be villains is no excuse. Recall that villains don't often few themselves as such. In fact, the only one who I think every really did so was Nale in the Order of the Stick.
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Post by aionis on Mar 21, 2017 21:00:36 GMT
Um... no.
I definitely disagree
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Post by CatcheJagger on Mar 21, 2017 21:02:40 GMT
So...basically, you're upset that the Archon is revealed and does villainous actions. I guess that describes Corypheus. It also describes most villains. Is this a troll topic? I believe the critique is that there was not much else to the Archon. Not particularly interesting, intimidating, or compelling. Similar critiques were levied at Corypheus upon the release of DAI.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 21, 2017 21:07:31 GMT
So...basically, you're upset that the Archon is revealed and does villainous actions. I guess that describes Corypheus. It also describes most villains. Is this a troll topic? I believe the critique is that there was not much else to the Archon. Not particularly interesting, intimidating, or compelling. Similar critiques were levied at Corypheus upon the release of DAI. I prefer the fact that he is dangerous. Not to spoil much of the story, but the Archon does get the better of Ryder a number of times. Could there be more? possibly. But remember, I'm playing Ryder's story. It's odd to me to see cutscenes of the villain.
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Post by CatcheJagger on Mar 21, 2017 21:13:31 GMT
I believe the critique is that there was not much else to the Archon. Not particularly interesting, intimidating, or compelling. Similar critiques were levied at Corypheus upon the release of DAI. I prefer the fact that he is dangerous. Not to spoil much of the story, but the Archon does get the better of Ryder a number of times. Could there be more? possibly. But remember, I'm playing Ryder's story. It's odd to me to see cutscenes of the villain. Okay, well, that's fine. I was mainly clarifying the OP. I personally do have issues with the Archon, but they are mostly design-related.
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Post by Addictress on Mar 21, 2017 21:57:46 GMT
I honestly think he is a little better because he hasn't said a word or even introduced himself, whereas Corypheus made a really stupid speech "herp derp I AM DA CORYPHEUS herp derp."
Honestly the cinematic introducing the Arkon as he mimics the pathfinder's reaching up with his hand to communicate with the environmental control thingy was pretty good in and of itself. He and his henchmen were all silent and everything was just ...silent closeups of their bug-monkey-like faces, which was a solid scene, imo, for building up that "alien vibe."
So far, after like twenty hours of exploration and building up my first outpost, the Arkon hasn't made another single appearance nor has he said anything.
And the more silent, the better. It's when the villain is too obvious and makes a huge stupid speech that it ruins the entire game for me.
I believe that by playing through a large portion of the game building outposts and just fighting against unknown enemies for a while, we'll first get a sense of "how the land under the gang runs" without seeing the gang boss right away, and I think that's a fair approach, and much, much better than Corypheus - who was literally the most stupid villain I have ever seen in a game.
Once he makes a proper introduction, I do hope he is more challenging and makes more appearances and push-backs than Corypheus did, as well.
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Post by Addictress on Mar 21, 2017 22:00:37 GMT
It didn't describe Saren... or TIM... or Sovereign... or Anders/Justice... or... Show up, do something villainous? That sounds like Saren to me. And Anders. And Sovereign. The fact that they don't believe themselves to be villains is no excuse. Recall that villains don't often few themselves as such. In fact, the only one who I think every really did so was Nale in the Order of the Stick. Well Sovereign's speech wasn't stupid, it was profound and very well-written. So there's that. Secondly, Sovereign himself did not show up and do something villainous. We saw how the elements of the world under his influence, via other factions and enemies, operated. And THEN he made an appearance.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 21, 2017 22:11:10 GMT
Show up, do something villainous? That sounds like Saren to me. And Anders. And Sovereign. The fact that they don't believe themselves to be villains is no excuse. Recall that villains don't often few themselves as such. In fact, the only one who I think every really did so was Nale in the Order of the Stick. Well Sovereign's speech wasn't stupid, it was profound and very well-written. So there's that. Secondly, Sovereign himself did not show up and do something villainous. We saw how the elements of the world under his influence, via other factions and enemies, operated. And THEN he made an appearance. That's an opinion. I thought Sovereign's speech was very cliche. It's your basic slave uprising tale. And we saw Sovereign very early. Remember: He landed on Eden Prime. Then he took off. Ashley and Kaidan talked about it.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 22, 2017 1:15:31 GMT
*Sigh* Please don't mention the ending, now i'll be expecting a clusterfuck It's not gonna be a clusterfuck... but it's not really going to crescendo what the game as a whole has been the way ME1 or ME2 does it. Instead it'll probably be more like DA:I's final mission which, while "epic" felt completely tacked on and begins with almost no context.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 22, 2017 1:17:19 GMT
Well Sovereign's speech wasn't stupid, it was profound and very well-written. So there's that. Secondly, Sovereign himself did not show up and do something villainous. We saw how the elements of the world under his influence, via other factions and enemies, operated. And THEN he made an appearance. That's an opinion. I thought Sovereign's speech was very cliche. It's your basic slave uprising tale. And we saw Sovereign very early. Remember: He landed on Eden Prime. Then he took off. Ashley and Kaidan talked about it. Yes, Sovereign falls into "bad guy" archetypes but it transcends the cliche because of what the Reapers are to the context of Mass Effect's lore. The fact that they're basically synthetic overlords and gods makes his words feel threatening and makes you feel powerless as you realize what the Reapers truly are.
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 22, 2017 7:12:01 GMT
*Sigh* Please don't mention the ending, now i'll be expecting a clusterfuck It's not gonna be a clusterfuck... but it's not really going to crescendo what the game as a whole has been the way ME1 or ME2 does it. Instead it'll probably be more like DA:I's final mission which, while "epic" felt completely tacked on and begins with almost no context. Thats putting it politely
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 7:38:20 GMT
I honestly think he is a little better because he hasn't said a word or even introduced himself, whereas Corypheus made a really stupid speech "herp derp I AM DA CORYPHEUS herp derp." Honestly the cinematic introducing the Arkon as he mimics the pathfinder's reaching up with his hand to communicate with the environmental control thingy was pretty good in and of itself. He and his henchmen were all silent and everything was just ...silent closeups of their bug-monkey-like faces, which was a solid scene, imo, for building up that "alien vibe." So far, after like twenty hours of exploration and building up my first outpost, the Arkon hasn't made another single appearance nor has he said anything. And the more silent, the better. It's when the villain is too obvious and makes a huge stupid speech that it ruins the entire game for me. I believe that by playing through a large portion of the game building outposts and just fighting against unknown enemies for a while, we'll first get a sense of "how the land under the gang runs" without seeing the gang boss right away, and I think that's a fair approach, and much, much better than Corypheus - who was literally the most stupid villain I have ever seen in a game. Once he makes a proper introduction, I do hope he is more challenging and makes more appearances and push-backs than Corypheus did, as well. His introduction scene was probably the best scene in the game until you got stuff done at Eos. No words needed to be said, the music was great and it had meaning. So on that alone he is more Interesting than Corypheus. Also i love his little Halo thing, man Chris Schlerf is not subtle in his writing.
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Post by bizantura on Mar 22, 2017 10:23:06 GMT
Good Christ, does anyone form opinions of ones own instead of absorbing them from outside?!
If all one does is searching the internet on how to think/feel, your the one that is "clusterfucked".
Be a sponge your whole life, then "disappointed" will be a way of life for you.
Seriously, play the whole game, feel in the moment and form an opinion afterwards.
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Post by goishen on Mar 22, 2017 11:49:13 GMT
I think that the archon's reveal was dense.
To paraphrase a youtuber, "He's walking around and he has motor skills. Great reason for us to hate him." It's an implied evil, that if it lands, is very effective. This studio, Montreal, has yet to land it. Cory and now Archon.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 22, 2017 13:40:56 GMT
The worst thing is that morally, just like Inquisition they're making THE PROTAGONIST THE BAD GUY. Archon doesn't have a chance and is a stubborn fool. We're the "adventurous" and "good" guy who just beats an incompetent villain who doesn't get his way. It's fucking shitty writing.
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 22, 2017 14:18:06 GMT
The Kett overall are a little strange as villains thematically. We have the Initiative coming into Helius to settle while there are already local inhabitants. But outside of first contact and us being enemies against the Kett there's not really much conflict brought up over us using our superior tech and knowledge to colonize the area. It isn't really talked about how human colonialism on Earth, Krogan colonialism after the Rachni Wars, the First Contact War, etc. have caused issues in the past which could happen again given how poorly the mission is going. Meanwhile we have the Kett which seem to be this empire that's moving in, abducting the natives and indoctrinating them into their religion like the European colonists of antiquity. The Exaltation process strips away individual distinctiveness and adds it to the rest of the Kett so they're sort of a mashup of the Necromongers from Riddick, the Covenant from Halo, and the Borg from Star Trek. This would be interesting if they were also trying to colonize Helius but other than converting all life in the area and using Remnant tech to kill all who resist there's not much there. Saren was a compelling villain because he had understandable, albeit misguided reasons for his actions. Imagine if the Kett were refugees like we were and the Archon was their equivalent to a Pathfinder. That would raise some questions as to who was actually in the right. That sounds way cooler, i wanna play that game.
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Post by xassantex on Mar 22, 2017 18:06:50 GMT
*Sigh* Please don't mention the ending, now i'll be expecting a clusterfuck It's not gonna be a clusterfuck... but it's not really going to crescendo what the game as a whole has been the way ME1 or ME2 does it. Instead it'll probably be more like DA:I's final mission which, while "epic" felt completely tacked on and begins with almost no context. in that case here's hoping the real ending will be the final DLC as in DA:I . Trespasser should have been the real ending and Corypheus just a critical mission , or it could have been all included in a same final chapter. I don't feel the need of having a huge "Final Boss" as much as having a good plot being unraveled . I like Trespasser for that reason and it leaves the game open for "something to come".
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