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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Oct 2, 2016 11:24:08 GMT
That's just Catholics in general. You don't see them doing that here either. Although many do protest various forms of death. "Consistent life" policy - no death penalty, no abortion, no war. Usually these are liberal Catholics. Like Sister Helen Prejean. Thanks for the information! also protestants don't do it right? i think its the baptist as i remember being the loudest? i may be wrong tho. From Alabama! BTW I think Orthodox church is doing better than others now. Catholic church was fine under previous pope, but the current one is a moron. Among middle eastern ones, Armenia is strong, Coptic is OK but under pressure by Muslims in Egypt. And Assyrians are in pretty bad shape, because of Alqaeda and ISIS terror and even before throughout history. Anglican and Swedish churches are merely jokes right now. I don't know much about American churches tbh.
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Post by kizanare on Oct 2, 2016 15:21:57 GMT
Another interesting history bit. The Vikings were annihilated in battle by continental Belgium/Germany. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leuven_(891)I just thought it was interesting in light of how of course later the Nazis would model themselves and be inspired by the "Nordic" countries like Norway/Sweden /Denmark, and yet just regular old "Germans" (whatever those were exactly) were superior at least from a military standpoint.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 2, 2016 18:46:04 GMT
Another interesting history bit. The Vikings were annihilated in battle by continental Belgium/Germany. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leuven_(891)I just thought it was interesting in light of how of course later the Nazis would model themselves and be inspired by the "Nordic" countries like Norway/Sweden /Denmark, and yet just regular old "Germans" (whatever those were exactly) were superior at least from a military standpoint. Well, battles are rarely decided by the fierceness or cultural identity of the warriors. I know nothing about the battle in question, but Vikings were typically very few in numbers. They were raiders. They would come, murder defenseless priests, rape and pillage, and then they would be quickly away before an army could be mobilised against them. Cowardly thieves, one could say, except that they weren't cowardly at all. Being killed in battle didn't bother them as much as dying of old age or sickness. But I would assume there was a numerical asymmetry in this case.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Oct 2, 2016 19:12:21 GMT
It's so sad that the idea of Yugoslavia can't be executed anytime soon. And... overall Croats were more horrible than Serbs.
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Post by kizanare on Oct 2, 2016 19:25:44 GMT
Another interesting history bit. The Vikings were annihilated in battle by continental Belgium/Germany. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leuven_(891)I just thought it was interesting in light of how of course later the Nazis would model themselves and be inspired by the "Nordic" countries like Norway/Sweden /Denmark, and yet just regular old "Germans" (whatever those were exactly) were superior at least from a military standpoint. Well, battles are rarely decided by the fierceness or cultural identity of the warriors. I know nothing about the battle in question, but Vikings were typically very few in numbers. They were raiders. They would come, murder defenseless priests, rape and pillage, and then they would be quickly away before an army could be mobilised against them. Cowardly thieves, one could say, except that they weren't cowardly at all. Being killed in battle didn't bother them as much as dying of old age or sickness. But I would assume there was a numerical asymmetry in this case. Nah it was pretty much full scale invasion, that's how they got the "river flooded with bodies" sort of deal. Actually other accounts seem to indicate it was one of the largest wars fought by the Vikings. Even if it was numerical, well, bad planning.
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Post by kizanare on Oct 2, 2016 21:44:47 GMT
Actually, on another random note, I think Belgium was(is?) superior to Germany militarily.. the primary reason they lost to Nazi Germany was because of Dunkirk and England basically just going pure coward.
WWI and WW2 were virtually identical in terms of the lines and all that but for some reason England just kind pulled out, 'stabbed in the back' indeed...
Honestly I kind of just find Belgium more fascinating than either France or Germany these days.
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Oct 2, 2016 22:09:54 GMT
^ You're funny.
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Post by masterwarderz on Oct 2, 2016 23:52:28 GMT
^ You're funny. The 18 day battle is called that literally for a reason I believe Belgium sort of crumpled like a beer can. It looked like a good fight on paper, I must admit they had more tanks, soldiers and what have you but the invading Germans made up for it with excellent air support, artillery and tank usage, Von Brock is half the reason this fight went as well as it did. Man was a gambler and knew how to position forces for said operations, busting the Belgium lines wide open on the shores of Leie and then just blow the surviving encirclement to pieces with point to point aircraft bombardment. o-o Truly that was a day that anyone in the Wehrmacht could stand proud. They had repelled the French forces, utterly decimated much of the Belgian forces, ruined any chance of a British miracle. At that moment in history? It appeared to all the world that Germany had more or less won the war then and there.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Oct 3, 2016 4:50:07 GMT
As Boris Johnson says, Belgium is not even a country!
I was at Brussels for two days. It looked "nice" but also artificial. People were in 3 categories... the Dutch, the French and the immigrants... living in the city but mostly ignoring each other. And all those EU buildings looked pointless.
Actually the only good thing about it was its Cathedral and its Comic exhibition which belongs to its past.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 13:00:42 GMT
^ You're funny. The 18 day battle is called that literally for a reason I believe Belgium sort of crumpled like a beer can. It looked like a good fight on paper, I must admit they had more tanks, soldiers and what have you but the invading Germans made up for it with excellent air support, artillery and tank usage, Von Brock is half the reason this fight went as well as it did. Man was a gambler and knew how to position forces for said operations, busting the Belgium lines wide open on the shores of Leie and then just blow the surviving encirclement to pieces with point to point aircraft bombardment. o-o Truly that was a day that anyone in the Wehrmacht could stand proud. They had repelled the French forces, utterly decimated much of the Belgian forces, ruined any chance of a British miracle. At that moment in history? It appeared to all the world that Germany had more or less won the war then and there. Yes history often lets the losers of a conflict start strong in their wars. Punic Pride represent!
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Post by kizanare on Oct 3, 2016 13:10:45 GMT
Charlemagne/Belgium etc pretty much was holding the germanic peoples in check for like at least 1600 years if not longer. See, Saxon wars, etc.
The only difference between WWI (where Belgium was never fully taken by the way) and WW2 was that England pussied out, as just described. In fact if you look at a battle map of Belgium WWI vs WW2 there is literally virtually zero difference, all the way up until Dunkirk, the positions were essentially virtually identical, it's just England was like oh no there's a pocket lets run as far away as possible. Belgium was actually pretty confident that the situation was fine and kept asking England to attack but they kept kind of just panicking.
Consequently, it wasn't until American involvement that the situation could be reversed (as was done at the Battle of the Bulge)
America was ultimately a worthy ally for Belgium.
So yeah as far a what ifs go if it was America/Belgium and friends, Nazi Germany never goes anywhere and it's just yet another regional conflict.
Well honestly as it was that's basically what happened anyway, America arrives Belgium is back together, BotB end of Nazi Germany, it just took 7 years to get there.
Charlemagne was the greatest European king ever and no one else even comes close.
I've known since I was 12 years old that not everything comes back to "Nazis," his story is right there in any history book.
I think the Nazis in general had this thing with boundaries and borders, it was always like well the soveriegnty is transferred via these channels, a lot of "fake perfect" when the situation wasn't ever always totally clear.
I mean in general they had rebellions in literally every single country they "conquered" pretty much immediately, they were a driven by this belief that if you controlled a country's official infrastructure and channels, then you were therefore in control of everything, but those countries were bounded by nationalistic sentiment and therefore as brittle as nationalism itself.
Unfortunately you can see that in America as well, the concept of ruler ship (sovereignty, states, etc) without the will necessary to complete the task.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Oct 3, 2016 13:30:16 GMT
I don't understand why you like Belgium so much. In most of its history it was part of the Holy Roman Empire, Netherlands or France. And after independence, it tried colonialism and sucked pretty hard... did genocide in Congo: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_StateThe real power who was a hindrance for Germanic states was France. France was a strong state since renaissance till Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Post by kizanare on Oct 3, 2016 13:36:34 GMT
I don't understand why you like Belgium so much. In most of its history it was part of the Holy Roman Empire, Netherlands or France. And after independence, it tried colonialism and sucked pretty hard... did genocide in Congo: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_StateThe real power who was a hindrance for Germanic states was France. France was a strong state since renaissance till Napoleon Bonaparte. You illustrate my point, "part of HRE, Netherlands or France" it's like not really I mean if you analyze what those things were at their respective times you can see there was overlap in institutions and such all the time. Like being a part of HRE which was an institution that covered like a gazillion different disparate groups, it was advantageous to be a part of that, at that specific time, etc. Anyway, I can cover more of these and other points but I don't wish to do so right now.
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Post by kizanare on Oct 3, 2016 13:39:08 GMT
Honestly I can't believe they are making a movie out of Dunkirk, it's like, our finest hour, when we abandoned the entire world to tyranny and such "our finest hour" apparently....
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Post by masterwarderz on Oct 3, 2016 13:51:46 GMT
Tyranny is a bit melodramatic. Much as people were afraid of Germany, they were more afraid of Russia.
It's why Estonia and Czechoslovakia more or less unofficially allied with the Axis. Czech resistance was a joke. They were happy to have them there. Save some commie supplied partisans who killed Heydrich...that was bad. But hey they all died, so did their friends, relatives, casual acquaintances etc. No one got to brag about it. Which is good. Commie partisans are basically what the layman imagines when they think German wartime atrocities.
Estonia certainly didn't mind Germans defending their country for them. Ultimately a pointless struggle in a historical context sure but at the time the arrangements worked for both parties.
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Post by Lavochkin on Oct 3, 2016 15:47:06 GMT
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 3, 2016 15:54:39 GMT
Actually, on another random note, I think Belgium was(is?) superior to Germany militarily.. the primary reason they lost to Nazi Germany was because of Dunkirk and England basically just going pure coward. WWI and WW2 were virtually identical in terms of the lines and all that but for some reason England just kind pulled out, 'stabbed in the back' indeed... Honestly I kind of just find Belgium more fascinating than either France or Germany these days. Belgium had perhaps 60-70 serviceable Hawker Hurricane MkI, which were so new it's uncertain how well the pilots had learned to fly such "modern" monoplanes. Else they had some dozens of obsolete biplanes and parasol-planes. Germany had 4200 state of the art aircraft. It's over and done there. Nothing else matters. Nothing. It's gonna be a very one-sided massacre. But yeah, Belgium also had 12 tanks and 50 or so of something called light tanks. So what? Anyway, the Belgian air force was destroyed in hours, only a couple of Gloster Gladiators put up a fight. When Belgium capitulated they had no other sane option. Their army was trapped and awaited annihilation. Britain had no better options than Belgium. Their army could be annihilated, capitulate or flee at Dunkirk. There were no forces in Europe at the time of the invasion that could stand up to Germany. The main reason for that was Luftwaffe, but yea their blitzkrieg and tanks too.
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Post by Camel on Oct 3, 2016 16:30:25 GMT
Here's a few excerpts from a piece about James Jabara, America's first jet ace and it's second highest scoring ace of the Korean war(a triple ace with fifteen aerial victories), and prior to that, he scored one and a half aerial victories in the ETO of WW2. Interestingly, he's of Lebanese Arab christian extraction. acepilots.com/korea_jabara.html(The Russians dispute him being *the* first jet ace) How many of his frags are confirmed by the Soviet and North Korean sources?
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 3, 2016 16:32:34 GMT
Here's a few excerpts from a piece about James Jabara, America's first jet ace and it's second highest scoring ace of the Korean war(a triple ace with fifteen aerial victories), and prior to that, he scored one and a half aerial victories in the ETO of WW2. Interestingly, he's of Lebanese Arab christian extraction. acepilots.com/korea_jabara.html(The Russians dispute him being *the* first jet ace) How many of his frags are confirmed by the Soviet and North Korean sources? Four.
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Post by Camel on Oct 3, 2016 16:37:14 GMT
How many of his frags are confirmed by the Soviet and North Korean sources? Four. Thanks! Korean war is not my historical period, more interested in WW2 and Vietnam. WW2 aces also have problem with overclaiming.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Oct 3, 2016 18:52:16 GMT
It's a long documentary. But as far as I've watched it so far, it seems rather good. Lots of little known facts. Truly or fairly representative images and movieclips, (rather than whatever from WW2, which seems the norm nowadays).
And another, more focused on interviews.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Oct 3, 2016 19:40:35 GMT
And wow what a mess
some cool uniforms between them tho, like Cossack divisions and some officers...
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Post by Lavochkin on Oct 3, 2016 20:54:23 GMT
And wow what a mess some cool uniforms between them tho, like Cossack divisions and some officers... And here's a vid on British uniforms.
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Post by Steelcan on Oct 3, 2016 23:35:46 GMT
Right now we're in the 950th anniversary of the Norman invasion of England
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Post by kizanare on Oct 4, 2016 11:41:42 GMT
Honestly you can say what you want about Belgium, but even now there is a a German speaking community in Belgium en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-speaking_Community_of_BelgiumThat is to say, "German" people who have willingly acquiesced to a higher authority... probably because they finally accept that they do things better than Germany. Well how is it there, well Belgium of course, lets remember, was one the winning side of both WWI and WW2 ultimately (a fact sometimes forgotten) thus could do more as it wished.
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