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Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 16:27:59 GMT
You know what you lot need? Kids. You'll either be so knackered that a mindless hour spent scanning things is a welcome relief to switch your brain off, or for the times you aren't a formless zombie you'll be motivated enough to spend your precious gaming time ignoring all the time wasting. Certainly works for me. But that's like saying if you don't enjoy a drink, you should dehydrate yourself for a day so you can enjoy it, as any liquid (no matter how foul) would be a welcomed respite...
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Post by vonuber on Mar 24, 2017 16:28:04 GMT
Have to say that witcher 3 side quest where you use your witcher senses to follow the footprints around the village to find the arsonist was really ground breaking. Wasn't a scan and follow quest at all. Nope. Never.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 24, 2017 16:28:37 GMT
You know what you lot need? Kids. You'll either be so knackered that a mindless hour spent scanning things is a welcome relief to switch your brain off, or for the times you aren't a formless zombie you'll be motivated enough to spend your precious gaming time ignoring all the time wasting. Certainly works for me. I could have 9 kids. Won't change poor game design from being game design, respectfully.
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Post by joglee on Mar 24, 2017 16:28:45 GMT
FeelsBadMan ugh. Just give me a new Mass Effect JUST LIKE ME2/ME3 but set in Andromeda!!!! How hard was that ?! This right here Pham. Although I don't mind the shitty Grind this time around compared to DAI since combat is fast gunplay with powers. Although I'm only on harvarl. Still the quality diff between ME2 and MEA in writing and content is so painfully bad. So you want a linear, corridor, RPG shooter set in Andromeda? Because that's basically all ME3 was. It was by far the most linear of all the Mass effect games.
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Post by vonuber on Mar 24, 2017 16:29:46 GMT
I could have 9 kids. Won't change poor game design from being game design, respectfully. It's only poor design because you don't like it though. My point is that it is very subjective.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Mar 24, 2017 16:32:19 GMT
To be fair, Mass Effect has always had infinitely better companion loyalty quests than TW3. So at least we've got that going for us. Which is nice.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 24, 2017 16:32:23 GMT
I think the loyalty quests borrow a bit from Witcher 3. The rest of the game though? I don't know what happened. To sum up the side quests in this game in one word? Horrible. I feel like there are 3 sets of sidequests though: loyalty/team quests location/area quests (nexus/helius cluster/eos etc) tasks Tasks have been god awful, location/area quests have had some definite gems so far, and I haven't completely finished a loyalty quest yet, but I hear they're pretty good. To just sum up all the side content as "one category" seems a bit unfair imo. Fair comment. The loyalty and team quests are decent. Let's put tasks, location, and area quests all into one category then, because they are all junk.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 24, 2017 16:33:00 GMT
That still doesn't explain why a settlement was built within the span of a day or two. These immersion break points take you out of the game and make you realize you're not playing in a living breathing world, but just a game. If that's fine with you then good on ya but most people want good writing and some semblance of logic with their RPGs. Who said it was in a span of a day or two? The screen faded to black. Even so, everything is prefab. It's actually probably a day since when you go back to the tempest they immediately talk about the experience at the vault. Are you implying Ryder and team didn't bother talking about it until after the settlement was built? Or that they just slept in the irradiated desert? Bad immersion like that ruins RPGs. Don't recall Witcher 3 ever doing something like that, and when they do (liberating a settlement) the game fastforwards the day and night cycle to visually show you that it wasn't instant like this game.
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Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 16:33:03 GMT
This right here Pham. Although I don't mind the shitty Grind this time around compared to DAI since combat is fast gunplay with powers. Although I'm only on harvarl. Still the quality diff between ME2 and MEA in writing and content is so painfully bad. So you want a linear, corridor, RPG shooter set in Andromeda? Because that's basically all ME3 was. It was by far the most linear of all the Mass effect games. Yes, some people would've preferred that. It isn't a "bad" thing really...each their own =)
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 24, 2017 16:35:03 GMT
Witcher 3 did have it's handful of fetch quests, but they were presented in interesting ways, with some engaging quest-givers, and they weren't dotted EVERYWHERE on the map like in the MEA.
That's the difference that the "WELL WITCHER 3 HAD THEM TOO!" crowd currently fails to comprehend.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 24, 2017 16:36:24 GMT
This right here Pham. Although I don't mind the shitty Grind this time around compared to DAI since combat is fast gunplay with powers. Although I'm only on harvarl. Still the quality diff between ME2 and MEA in writing and content is so painfully bad. So you want a linear, corridor, RPG shooter set in Andromeda? Because that's basically all ME3 was. It was by far the most linear of all the Mass effect games. Yes because Bioware is shit at doing openworld and their pseudo-mmo quests are weaker in quality than swtor I'm told.
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Post by CatcheJagger on Mar 24, 2017 16:36:56 GMT
Despite their inevitability, I am getting rather annoyed with TW3 comparisons, as they're often nonconstructive as a critique. So, I'm just gonna lay out my thoughts here and hopefully leave it at that.
The Witcher 3 and Mass Effect: Andromeda were both created with two very different philosophies in mind. One was the culmination of a trilogy of games, taking in knowledge gained from the previous two (quite flawed I must say) installments in the series. The other is basically a franchise soft reboot, both a continuation and a new beginning from what came before. This is why The Wicher 3 clearly has a stronger sense of its own identity, it has two games (plus a series of books) to base its tone, themes, and mechanics around. Mass Effect: Andromeda, on the other hand, can't just build off of its predecessors, because it has to be something new as well.
MEA's struggle with is present through most of its writing. The writing in the first Mass Effect was a bit cheesy, mostly because the writing in the game clearly took influence from cheesy pulp sci-fi stories from previous decades. Later installments refined the series tone and the writing improved. However, the issue with the writing in MEA is that, instead of being influenced by pulpy sci-fi, it instead takes the bulk of its inspiration from either the Mass Effect series itself or the writing style of modern Marvel films, with the constant need to "lighten the mood" at the expense of various other narrative elements. The resulting script, while fine, definitely feels a bit hollow and occasionally groan inducing (the Bioware writers are not Joss Whedon, no matter how matter how much they want to be).
When it comes to presentation, it really shouldn't have to be much of a debate. Despite spending five years in development, MEA wasn't ready for its launch. Many people want to talk about how big MEA was, and how its hard to make sure it all works, but if that's the case then Bioware clearly shouldn't have aimed so high with this one.
On quest design, yes there were a bunch of quests in TW3 which mechanicallybreak down into a simple "kill x" or "fetch y" but the main thing which set it apart was, surprise surprise, writing and presentation. Like I've said before, MEA has a lot of issues when it comes to writing and presentation, so the quests come off as just being the shallow set of mechanics. One of the key factors in creating this are those damn free-cam dialogue segments which quickly communicate to the player "Oh yeah, this isn't important." whereas in TW3, while less intricately blocked, scenes for side quests are scenes, which assists in creating the illusion that what you're doing is more interesting than it is.
Now, in terms of combat, I'm fine with both so I don't have much to say comparing them. However, I'm seeing a lot of unwarranted criticism of The Witcher 3's combat as being "boring and repetitive." If this is the impression which you got out of TW3, ten I'm pretty sure you played the game on a lower difficulty. There's nothing wrong with playing on a lower difficulty, but TW3 does experience such issues on lower difficulties where you can just plow through everything without much thoughtful or strategic use of your signs, oils, potions, etc, etc. I'm sure someone's going to say that they played on a higher difficulty and still had this problem. If that's the case, good for you for being naturally fantastic at everything, but I was speaking about what is generally the case.
That's pretty much it.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 24, 2017 16:38:08 GMT
I could have 9 kids. Won't change poor game design from being game design, respectfully. It's only poor design because you don't like it though. My point is that it is very subjective. Feel free to offer up a counter-argument as to why "go here, do action, rinse + repeat x100+" is good game design. I'd genuinely love to hear it. Because for the life of me I can't fathom what they add to a game other than "filler".
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Post by joglee on Mar 24, 2017 16:38:14 GMT
So you want a linear, corridor, RPG shooter set in Andromeda? Because that's basically all ME3 was. It was by far the most linear of all the Mass effect games. Yes because Bioware is shit at doing openworld and their pseudo-mmo quests are weaker in quality than swtor I'm told. Thanks, just wanted to see what you wanted. Personally I prefer being able to explore and not be shoved down a hallway.
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Post by traks on Mar 24, 2017 16:39:15 GMT
I'm not seeing dishonesty, I'm having fun right now.
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Post by joglee on Mar 24, 2017 16:40:37 GMT
I would be genuinely curious about what people want instead. I'm personally ok with this MMO style. It allows me to spend more time in a story/universe I enjoy. There is no rush for me. Does it need to just be more combat? Does it need more sub gameplay mechanics? Should it be nothing but mass orgys of banging? Do you want more dialogue between characters? Serious question. Honestly a lot of what I'm getting is people wanted this game to be like ME3, which boiled down to a corridor ARPG, with dialogue. People don't like open world games and want only one path to travel the entire game.
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Post by MasterJukes on Mar 24, 2017 16:41:24 GMT
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 24, 2017 16:41:53 GMT
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 24, 2017 16:42:41 GMT
Yes because Bioware is shit at doing openworld and their pseudo-mmo quests are weaker in quality than swtor I'm told. Thanks, just wanted to see what you wanted. Personally I prefer being able to explore and not be shoved down a hallway. Exploration isn't bad, Witcher 3 is great because it successfully melds exploration with narrative/story/cinematics. Something skyrim, DAI and this game can't.
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Post by vonuber on Mar 24, 2017 16:47:06 GMT
Well that's just silly. Witcher senses were part of some quests, but what made the quests good was that they were mini stories with cutscenes and twists. In MEA my camera zooms in awkwardly to a npc quest giver and that's pretty much it, I'm off scanning. It's still the same mechanics though. Get quest from npc, go scan to find a point, turn in quest. You can argue the presentation may be a bit better, but it's still the same usual stuff just dressed up a bit.
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Mar 24, 2017 16:55:44 GMT
There are some decent side quests in this game and they do have cut scenes, tho they also have that awkward zoom in and talk thing too the cut scenes are saved for specific moments. It's a lot better than Inquisition but it's not as good as The Witcher 3. Ya know what though, neither was any of the previous ME games when it came to side content.
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 24, 2017 16:56:04 GMT
Just a simple cutscene with questgiver that actually has facial animations and looks live enough with personality that makes you actually care about his problem and you want to help him, makes a huge difference. That's what witcher had and what Andromeda doesn't. Not to mention, searching for clues, Geralt commenting, preparing for each fight/beast was a lot of fun in witcher. Not to mention how many different enemies there are in withcer. Majority of witcher contracts had different creatures, which have their own attacks, strenghts amd weaknesses, animations, lore etc.. It's fun to read and learn about them and prepare before battle. Really immersive and makes a lot of quests some uniquness to it. So, it's not same, not at all, it makes huge difference.
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Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 17:00:37 GMT
It's still the same mechanics though. Get quest from npc, go scan to find a point, turn in quest. You can argue the presentation may be a bit better, but it's still the same usual stuff just dressed up a bit. It's an RPG though, so it will always be judged on audio and visual presentation. Both games are in the same genre, but one game has fully fleshed out mini stories as side quests, the other doesn't. And I didn't say I have a huge problem with that, but I do have a problem with them lying about it. Well...they didn't lie...it's pretty clear some of the side content is certainly inspired by Witcher 3 side content. Doesn't feel eerily familiar to following tracks/blood/senses when scanning for clues to you? I don't remember Bioware ever explicity state, "We are trying to recreate the same thing Witcher 3 had" lol. Just vagueries like "inspired by" and "taking cues from".
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Post by Eterna on Mar 24, 2017 17:01:25 GMT
The actual side missions in this game are good, what you are speaking of are called task quests.
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That's what she said...
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Post by R1Outcast on Mar 24, 2017 17:03:59 GMT
Try actually playing the game. Pretty much this^. ME:A made the mistake of being slow at the start. The game really opens up the more you play it. It pays off for those of us with the attention span to get to that point, but many tend to give up on the game before it has a chance to spread its wings (as reviews/previews have shown us). There really aren't a lot of "fetch" quests tbh, and each world has its own story and side quests that play into its story. Best advice I can give is the advice of the person I quoted above: try playing the game a bit more before jumping to premature conclusions.
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