danishgambit
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Post by danishgambit on Mar 27, 2017 19:54:05 GMT
I feel like they're afraid to write in a more gritty style because people seem to want the Rambo fantasy where you can do no wrong, no one important ever dies and the answer to every problem is kicking the door down and looking really cool while doing it and you always get the girl. I don't get a sense of danger anymore or feel like something is going to be difficult unless it relates directly to the combat. I complain a lot about ME3 and how Jacob cheating in that game was the only thing people didn't see coming. It was refreshing to see something not go Shepard's way that didn't have anything to do with the omniscient... I mean illusive man. I feel like Ryder and Shepard are just too perfect for anything to actually go wrong with these guys.
I'm hoping the next Mass Effect is NOT an epic and you are NOT the chosen one. I am REALLY tired of being the chosen one. I want some kind of Firefly/Babylon 5 hybrid where you are not special at all. You're just a guy trying to do something in the expanse of space for whatever reason and go on adventures. Maybe the problem can be epic but the player doesn't have to be.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 19:56:37 GMT
A bit, but with Mass Effect after the endings you kind of had to play it safe. The sequel to Andromeda if there is one can be compared against Andromeda and not the trilogy, which takes loads of pressure of and at the same time adds expectations of polish and better writing. Still think this game has some Firefly feeling to it though, atleast if you play as Scott. Yes it does thrust the Pathfinder thing upon you without any good reason, but you still have to prove yourself and that is kind of what i liked. It was better than the Inquisitor in DA:I, but that is not saying much.
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 27, 2017 20:01:02 GMT
I think ME3's ending has already sunk the boat.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 27, 2017 20:05:32 GMT
They decided for a clean break from the original trilogies.
They decided for an entirely new cast.
They decided for a few entirely new alien races
They decided for a much younger, less established protagonist. One of the reasons why I love Scott Ryder so much, is because he isn't the chosen one. He's quite.... average.
They decided to use an entirely new engine for this game.
So, no, I don't think they are afraid to rock the boat. I think they made quite a few brave decisions in the lead up to this game.
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Wulfram
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Post by Wulfram on Mar 27, 2017 20:07:12 GMT
I think going "gritty" would be a very boring and safe choice. Pretty much every video game is "gritty" nowadays. Mass Effect should be optimistic and believe in the power of friendship and all that sort of thing.
But I think they might have been better off if they'd been brave enough to address the aftermath of the reaper war, rather than running to Andromeda. That was, and is, the Mass Effect story that needed to be told.
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Post by derrame on Mar 27, 2017 20:11:36 GMT
i think the overall mood of the game just does not belong to the story, if not enough planets are found to live in, people will starve, three arks with thousands of "space persons" are lost and probably destroyed and everyone is smiling and making jokes , wtf |
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danishgambit
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A master of his game
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Post by danishgambit on Mar 27, 2017 20:17:06 GMT
They decided for a clean break from the original trilogies. They decided for an entirely new cast. They decided for a few entirely new alien races They decided for a much younger, less established protagonist. One of the reasons why I love Scott Ryder so much, is because he isn't the chosen one. He's quite.... average. They decided to use an entirely new engine for this game. So, no, I don't think they are afraid to rock the boat. I think they made quite a few brave decisions in the lead up to this game. Honestly all that stuff doesn't seem like anything to be lauded apart from the new engine. I mean are we really going to brag about how they wrote a story with new characters that wasn't like the old story with old characters? And Ryder is the Pathfinder. He has an AI stuck in his brain. He shoots electric crap from his fingers and does things other people can't do. He's practically McGuyver on the battlefield. Some people are jelly because of this. He is the chosen one. It just so happens that he wasn't supposed to be. |
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 27, 2017 20:26:57 GMT
In short...yes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 20:29:23 GMT
no one important ever dies Excuse me...  |
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 27, 2017 20:29:49 GMT
They decided for a clean break from the original trilogies. They decided for an entirely new cast. They decided for a few entirely new alien races They decided for a much younger, less established protagonist. One of the reasons why I love Scott Ryder so much, is because he isn't the chosen one. He's quite.... average. They decided to use an entirely new engine for this game. So, no, I don't think they are afraid to rock the boat. I think they made quite a few brave decisions in the lead up to this game. Honestly all that stuff doesn't seem like anything to be lauded apart from the new engine. I mean are we really going to brag about how they wrote a story with new characters that wasn't like the old story with old characters? And Ryder is the Pathfinder. He has an AI stuck in his brain. He shoots electric crap from his fingers and does things other people can't do. He's practically McGuyver on the battlefield. Some people are jelly because of this. He is the chosen one. It just so happens that he wasn't supposed to be. Yes, we are - because I think doing a prequel to the original trilogies (discovering Mars, Prothean artifacts, the Mass Relays, First Contact) would have been the easier route for them to go. Brave decision for them to go forward, and start everything from essentially, scratch, rather than to latch onto a universe and galaxy that was already created and established. |
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 27, 2017 20:31:17 GMT
The premise needs to make sense first and foremost before you can make it appropriately gritty. Sending 100K people to a different galaxy in a bunch of unarmed space freezers should have ended with them getting slaughtered in their space freezers. The logical assumption to make would be that the Andromeda galaxy would be at the very least as dangerous as the MW. Arming the Arks and the Nexus or providing them with the ability to manufacture armed spaceships should have been an obvious requirement to someone as smart as Alec Ryder, or the others. They went in ME:A with theme over logic. They wanted their space hippies to look like pacifists. (disregarding that most of the gameplay involves shooting...) Not to get too spoilery on you, but I think many of your annoyances with the established story make more sense once you get learn more about the Initiative. |
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Mar 27, 2017 20:40:20 GMT
I think ME3 pretty well demonstrated that Bioware doesn't do "gritty" well.
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Post by lyvean on Mar 27, 2017 20:44:25 GMT
They decided for a clean break from the original trilogies. They decided for an entirely new cast. They decided for a few entirely new alien races They decided for a much younger, less established protagonist. One of the reasons why I love Scott Ryder so much, is because he isn't the chosen one. He's quite.... average. They decided to use an entirely new engine for this game. So, no, I don't think they are afraid to rock the boat. I think they made quite a few brave decisions in the lead up to this game. These mean nothing since everything else is the same, boring gameplay as DAI. So, no rocking the boat. No rocking the boat in the story, in the writing, in the quest design, nothing. |
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danishgambit
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Post by danishgambit on Mar 27, 2017 20:45:36 GMT
no one important ever dies Excuse me... ok.... ok.... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 20:51:10 GMT
The premise needs to make sense first and foremost before you can make it appropriately gritty. Sending 100K people to a different galaxy in a bunch of unarmed space freezers should have ended with them getting slaughtered in their space freezers. The logical assumption to make would be that the Andromeda galaxy would be at the very least as dangerous as the MW. Arming the Arks and the Nexus or providing them with the ability to manufacture armed spaceships should have been an obvious requirement to someone as smart as Alec Ryder, or the others. They went in ME:A with theme over logic. They wanted their space hippies to look like pacifists. (disregarding that most of the gameplay involves shooting...) Not to get too spoilery on you, but I think many of your annoyances with the established story make more sense once you get learn more about the Initiative. ^This The story has quite a lot of depth, far too much to go into here without spoilers, but a lot of the complaints I've seen about the story are adressed as you go deeper into the game. |
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vanguardn7
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Post by vanguardn7 on Mar 27, 2017 20:57:03 GMT
They decided for a clean break from the original trilogies. They decided for an entirely new cast. They decided for a few entirely new alien races They decided for a much younger, less established protagonist. One of the reasons why I love Scott Ryder so much, is because he isn't the chosen one. He's quite.... average. They decided to use an entirely new engine for this game. So, no, I don't think they are afraid to rock the boat. I think they made quite a few brave decisions in the lead up to this game. These mean nothing since everything else is the same, boring gameplay as DAI. So, no rocking the boat. No rocking the boat in the story, in the writing, in the quest design, nothing. see me3 ending for when they don't play it safe. all the backlash they got form that it's no wonder they made ME: A vanilla as possible... and quite frankly a little vanilla every now and again doesn't hurt. |
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Post by Cannibal on Mar 27, 2017 20:59:55 GMT
In the trilogy, sure you can play through the game, only really losing 4-5 people, but you can also go through and lose damn near everyone.
I had a female Shepard who in a matter of minutes watched both her previous lovers die. That was some gritty shit right there. I love replaying the trilogy and due to choices I make, the outcomes differ greatly. People focus too much on the endings, but fuck them, the actual story and the way it plays out due to choices, is crazy.
I've played Mass Effect 2 so many times(all imports from Mass 1) and not one of them is the same, and I'm not just talking the characters look different I'm talking people left alive.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 27, 2017 21:02:19 GMT
They decided for a clean break from the original trilogies. They decided for an entirely new cast. They decided for a few entirely new alien races They decided for a much younger, less established protagonist. One of the reasons why I love Scott Ryder so much, is because he isn't the chosen one. He's quite.... average. They decided to use an entirely new engine for this game. So, no, I don't think they are afraid to rock the boat. I think they made quite a few brave decisions in the lead up to this game. These mean nothing since everything else is the same, boring gameplay as DAI. So, no rocking the boat. No rocking the boat in the story, in the writing, in the quest design, nothing. I don't think the gameplay is boring, and quite like the fresh new story. I will give you the quest design though - by far my least favorite thing in this game. |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 27, 2017 21:05:23 GMT
ME:A is rocking the boat. It's a huge tonal shift from earlier games in the series.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 27, 2017 21:06:46 GMT
These mean nothing since everything else is the same, boring gameplay as DAI. So, no rocking the boat. No rocking the boat in the story, in the writing, in the quest design, nothing. see me3 ending for when they don't play it safe. all the backlash they got form that it's no wonder they made ME: A vanilla as possible... and quite frankly a little vanilla every now and again doesn't hurt. ME3's ending was as a result of time, resources, and the variety of stories getting out of control. Not because they were trying to go for something big, brave, and ambitious. |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 27, 2017 21:08:13 GMT
In the trilogy, sure you can play through the game, only really losing 4-5 people, but you can also go through and lose damn near everyone. I had a female Shepard who in a matter of minutes watched both her previous lovers die. That was some gritty shit right there. I love replaying the trilogy and due to choices I make, the outcomes differ greatly. People focus too much on the endings, but fuck them, the actual story and the way it plays out due to choices, is crazy. I've played Mass Effect 2 so many times(all imports from Mass 1) and not one of them is the same, and I'm not just talking the characters look different I'm talking people left alive. The only problem is that nobody's dumb enough to get to those bad results without trying. Sort of the opposite of RP. ME2 would have been a better game if Reaper IFF had been mandatory the way the Collector Ship mission was. |
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Post by DOOMSLAYER on Mar 27, 2017 21:13:33 GMT
I think they are absolutely terrified to try something new after the ME3 ending debacle. Hence why DAI had such a "safe" ending à la KOTOR.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Mar 27, 2017 21:14:13 GMT
ME:A is rocking the boat. It's a huge tonal shift from earlier games in the series. Plot shift, sure. But tonal? Not seeing it. Aside from ME3. But they'd be insane to go further down that rabbit hole. |
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vanguardn7
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Post by vanguardn7 on Mar 27, 2017 21:15:07 GMT
see me3 ending for when they don't play it safe. all the backlash they got form that it's no wonder they made ME: A vanilla as possible... and quite frankly a little vanilla every now and again doesn't hurt. ME3's ending was as a result of time, resources, and the variety of stories getting out of control. Not because they were trying to go for something big, brave, and ambitious. me 3 was a result of everything they did before. if they had done the the rest of the trilogy in a safer way, fans wouldn't have gone nearly as crazy as they did. the ending wasn't big, brave and ambitious the rest of it was though. how many series to you know tried to do what did? |
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 27, 2017 21:17:48 GMT
ME3's ending was as a result of time, resources, and the variety of stories getting out of control. Not because they were trying to go for something big, brave, and ambitious. me 3 was a result of everything they did before. if they had done the the rest of the trilogy in a safer way, fans wouldn't have gone nearly as crazy as they did. the ending wasn't big, brave and ambitious the rest of it was though. how many series to you know tried to do what did? Couldn't name you a single one. Great point. |
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