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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 30, 2017 19:43:15 GMT
That's on Bioware if they do that; it will be just like when they just flat out removed the Mako from ME2 just because a lot of people (rightfully so) pointed out that the Mako sections handled very poorly. Hopefully, even with any criticisms the Ryder twins or any other part of the game may be getting, Bioware will take those criticisms and use them to improve the game and not just completely remove everything that people had an issue with. Having Hawke bashing flashbacks and Inquisition getting a new lead I really hope that doesn't happen here. If it means anything, I haven't seen any strongly negative reactions to Ryder, whereas people just loved to rip into Hawke's character ad nauseam.
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Post by shechinah on Mar 30, 2017 19:44:45 GMT
Given the criticism on the writing of the game, I strongly believe making MEA a trilogy is more beneficial. The format of ME has been trilogy based and it gives the amount of time needed for the players to get more attached to the characters and player character. Give Ryder two more games ,make each bettwr than the last, give it an epic and satisfying ending and in the long run people will love the MEA Trilogy and the first game,even if it had a rocky start,will be looked at as just a piece of a whole and players will be more forgiving. In my opinion ,leaving it as stand alone without building upon serves no purpose for the franchise. This is just me personally speaking but I honestly don't want to see another trilogy, duology or something like that. I'd rather not have another grand war to end all wars. I wouldn't mind seeing overarching storylines that last a couple of games that is related that way but not a story that's suppose to be the story . I may be explaining this poorly and I may be misunderstanding. Sorry if that is the case. I've come to think and feel that Mass Effect tends to be best when the stories feature the same cast but in stories that are more stand alone or have overarching storylines. I love the OT and each game was fun but looking at each story as a part of a trilogy, it had some serious problems, in my opinion. I think it's better to play to strengths such as characters and adventures. It can allow for a lot more free room to write different kinds of adventures. Basically, have Ryder and their crew be exploring and adventuring, solving different troubles and mysteries, be involved in politics and faction conflicts. It could lend itself to a lot of fun with the diversity of stories we could have. Political intrigue one game, a mystery the next and so on. No need to keep trying to up the scale of the challenge to that of the Reapers and beyond: make the challenge different and a different kind of fun each story. Have the focus be Ryder and their crew: their adventure and their journeys together. Develop those characters, grow those relationships and make those stories be enjoyable and we should be good, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 19:45:43 GMT
The "Dragon Age approach" only exists because pathetic fanboys and fangirls hated on Hawke so much. Well, would not it have been motivated by them wanting to continue with the Warden rather than adopt the third PoV? I always thought the Dragon Age copied Martin's approach to presenting the story from different PoVs, it's news to me that protagonist was changed because there was a backlash against the middle child specifically (who is tbh the most charming out of the three for me who played all three games back to back just now).
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Post by dazzarlok on Mar 30, 2017 19:45:58 GMT
So if Bioware decides to make a sequel should they take a Dragon Age approach and have a new main character or keep Ryder, or maybe have you play as your twin that would be interesting With the amount of hilarious gifs and memes associated with the Ryder's, I dont see how you bring them back, unless you give them entirely new faces. Maybe some DLC where they are horribly disfigured and undergo a head transplant (which ironically is happening in real life lol). Their faces are fine. It's just the animations that are bad. Improve the facial animations (make Scott's hair look more realistic instead of like the hair you'd find on a Ken doll) and there won't be any issues.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 19:46:34 GMT
So if Bioware decides to make a sequel should they take a Dragon Age approach and have a new main character or keep Ryder, or maybe have you play as your twin that would be interesting With the amount of hilarious gifs and memes associated with the Ryder's, I dont see how you bring them back, unless you give them entirely new faces. Maybe some DLC where they are horribly disfigured and undergo a head transplant (which ironically is happening in real life lol). Or just make the sequel with better facial animations
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Post by dazzarlok on Mar 30, 2017 19:47:38 GMT
The "Dragon Age approach" only exists because pathetic fanboys and fangirls hated on Hawke so much. Well, would not it have been motivated by them wanting to continue with the Warden rather than adopt the third PoV? I always thought the Dragon Age copied Martin's approach to presenting the story from different PoVs, it's news to me that protagonist was changed because there was a backlash against the middle child specifically (who is tbh the most charming out of the three for me who played all three games back to back just now). Yep, agreed, humorous Hawke ftw! I figured people hated Hawke because they liked and wanted to play as the Grey Warden again.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 30, 2017 19:47:52 GMT
The "Dragon Age approach" only exists because pathetic fanboys and fangirls hated on Hawke so much. What of the warden? I believe bioware made it known they wanted to change protagonists after each game concluded.
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Post by lurkinglurker on Mar 30, 2017 19:48:35 GMT
I want a sequel where I get to play as my male Ryder again. The thing about Dragon Age is that, knowing they'll likely have a new protagonist each game, it makes me less attached and invested into my protagonist despite the customization/choices I can make as them in their game. You build these relationships with characters like Morrigan, Leliana, Varric, etc. only for you to get a "you are some random stranger" response and got to start over with them. It feels like any connections you make to those characters will be swept aside. It makes sense for Dragon Age since it's more about the world than certain individuals, but Mass Effect has an approach that I much prefer. Nobody would have been nearly as connected with Shepard and the returning characters if you only played Shep in ME1 then some random other soldier in 2, and again with 3. Having the chance to play as the same protagonist and continuing building and creating relationships with the characters around us instead of everything getting reset is a strong aspect to the SP Mass Effect experience. I think they should give Ryder at least a couple of games so people can get better attached to him/her. Edit: We've only explored one cluster, are in a new galaxy, and have started over so the trilogy's choices don't need to be taken into account, just MEA's. They can afford to make another game with Ryder as the protagonist and not be overwhelmed when it comes to importing our choices.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 30, 2017 19:49:36 GMT
So if Bioware decides to make a sequel should they take a Dragon Age approach and have a new main character or keep Ryder, or maybe have you play as your twin that would be interesting With the amount of hilarious gifs and memes associated with the Ryder's, I dont see how you bring them back, unless you give them entirely new faces. Maybe some DLC where they are horribly disfigured and undergo a head transplant (which ironically is happening in real life lol). But that's a separate issue from the character itself, because BioWare still has to make good on improving the animation no matter the character. Even an upgraded CC can be thrown in there. It's not as if ME hasn't done that already.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 19:50:48 GMT
Well, would not it have been motivated by them wanting to continue with the Warden rather than adopt the third PoV? I always thought the Dragon Age copied Martin's approach to presenting the story from different PoVs, it's news to me that protagonist was changed because there was a backlash against the middle child specifically (who is tbh the most charming out of the three for me who played all three games back to back just now). Yep, agreed, humorous Hawke ftw! I figured people hated Hawke because they liked and wanted to play as the Grey Warden again. I could see the negativity stemming from going from having a choice of three species for a Warden to just one for Hawke. I was not pleased with it either, but I liked Hawke. I also did not mind switching to the Inquisitor and have 4 species to chose from for him. Then again, I liked playing Shepard too, but, again, the de-leveling plot device in Game 2 was not my favorite. I would not mind playing a sequel as someone from the Exiles faction, and Ryder playing a role as an important World Figure. Or as Ryder. I dunno, all is interesting imo.
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Post by arreyanne on Mar 30, 2017 19:51:30 GMT
I liked my FemHawke, I liked my City Elf Warden a lot more however. WOuld be nice if they made a DA where you continue the Warden story whatever it was. However that might be a bit difficult as some might have been Queen and some not
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Post by Bann Duncan on Mar 30, 2017 19:54:24 GMT
Well, would not it have been motivated by them wanting to continue with the Warden rather than adopt the third PoV? I always thought the Dragon Age copied Martin's approach to presenting the story from different PoVs, it's news to me that protagonist was changed because there was a backlash against the middle child specifically (who is tbh the most charming out of the three for me who played all three games back to back just now). Yep, agreed, humorous Hawke ftw! I figured people hated Hawke because they liked and wanted to play as the Grey Warden again. They couldn't continue the Warden because that would entail retconning the Ultimate Sacrifice ending, but they clearly were setting up Hawke (who I loved) as their Shepard.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 19:56:08 GMT
Yep, agreed, humorous Hawke ftw! I figured people hated Hawke because they liked and wanted to play as the Grey Warden again. They couldn't continue the Warden because that would entail retconning the Ultimate Sacrifice ending, but they clearly were setting up Hawke (who I loved) as their Shepard. Do we know it? Because the decision about allowing a choice of races or restricting it to a human only is a huge and costly one. EDIT: I can see the hints of it in narration, tbh, in retrospect, and perhaps there are easter eggs hints of it in the beginning of the Inquisition. Overall though, I do dearly love Hawke, but I also liked starting at level 1 and playing the Qunari, and would not have traded it for Hawke as my main.
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Post by leo3abp on Mar 30, 2017 19:57:30 GMT
I would prefer a new more mature character with a developed personality and less of a "space Jesus jr." type, or at the very least a grown up Ryder.
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Post by dazzarlok on Mar 30, 2017 19:58:41 GMT
Yep, agreed, humorous Hawke ftw! I figured people hated Hawke because they liked and wanted to play as the Grey Warden again. They couldn't continue the Warden because that would entail retconning the Ultimate Sacrifice ending, but they clearly were setting up Hawke (who I loved) as their Shepard. Meh, either way I was fine with Hawke. Because of the humorous dialogue options and the great voice acting from both the male and female voice actor, I like Hawke a lot more than my Grey Warden. Despite me not really like DA2, Hawke is my favorite protagonist out of all three games, with the Inquisitor coming in second. I liked my Grey Warden, I guess I just couldn't get as attached to her as the other protagonists.
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Post by biowaor on Mar 30, 2017 20:00:38 GMT
I would like to keep Ryder. Shepard's legendary status comes from being able to control him/her over the course of the trilogy.
Mass Effect as a game accomplishes a growth in the player character you can't find elsewhere. Nathan Drake and Gerald have great story lines, but you can never get the feeling that you truly molded their opinions in their universe.
I think it would be a disservice to fans to switch up the formula. Dragon Age is a different monster that wrote itself into a corner (on purpose) being able to continue the grey warden'so story. But I think by removing the formula the original trilogy created, you lose what connects me to the universe so well.
He was my Shepard and now this is my Ryder, please don't take that away.
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Post by shechinah on Mar 30, 2017 20:05:23 GMT
Having Hawke bashing flashbacks and Inquisition getting a new lead I really hope that doesn't happen here. Thankfully, I don't think you need to worry so much about that. As I recall, the developers were, pre-release, open to the prospect of continuing that trend but were simply keeping their options open. While I have yet to finish the game, it does seem like Ryder and their crew has been designed to potentially feature as cast in future games because of the set-up surrounding them. That seems to strongly suggest that an on-going protagonist was considered and developed accordingly for which I am grateful since it avoids trouble in writing. Part of this is also due to what seems to be deliberate efforts to avoid player decisions creating too many variables and making world states too different which I also grateful for because of the same reason. It's funny, to me at least. I love how Dragon Age keeps changings the roles for lead characters. I admit that initially I felt Mass Effect might benefit from that but this game won me over and I now think each series benefit best from their respective approaches. Dragon Age with its changing cast and Mass Effect with its permanent cast.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 20:05:24 GMT
Nope. I want to invest in these characters and be able to continue my journey with them (romantic or as friends), in whatever form that happens. If they change protagonists in each installment, we will never be able to do this.
Ask around why ME characters are so loved. That doesn't happen the same way with those from Dragon Age. Garrus has such a large fan base because he has been with us for three games, as our buddy, as did Tali, or Liara. (No, I'm not saying that's true for every player). Alistair on the other hand, or Morrigan, or Leliana, never got the same level of attachment from players because of that, even though they do have a lot of fans.
Besides, having a new hero every time just makes your characters don't seem all that important. If there's always someone showing up that can do the things you do at a regular basis, you're not so special after all. Thedas seems to birth a new hero every five years or so, so it's not that interesting to me.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Mar 30, 2017 20:07:06 GMT
They couldn't continue the Warden because that would entail retconning the Ultimate Sacrifice ending, but they clearly were setting up Hawke (who I loved) as their Shepard. Do we know it? Because the decision about allowing a choice of races or restricting it to a human only is a huge and costly one. EDIT: I can see the hints of it in narration, tbh, in retrospect, and perhaps there are easter eggs hints of it in the beginning of the Inquisition. Overall though, I do dearly love Hawke, but I also liked starting at level 1 and playing the Qunari, and would not have traded it for Hawke as my main. Corypheus was literally Hawke's enemy by blood, the entire framing narrative of DA2 (which leads into DA:I a few years later) is about the aftermath of the events in Kirkwall (from the appearance of red lyrium to the tension between mages and templars, the eluvian, the evolution of Cullen's views, etc). Even the fact that the human origin is from a noble Free Marcher city suggests Hawke being part of the original plan. They couldn't continue the Warden because that would entail retconning the Ultimate Sacrifice ending, but they clearly were setting up Hawke (who I loved) as their Shepard. Meh, either way I was fine with Hawke. Because of the humorous dialogue options and the great voice acting from both the male and female voice actor, I like Hawke a lot more than my Grey Warden. Despite me not really like DA2, Hawke is my favorite protagonist out of all three games, with the Inquisitor coming in second. I liked my Grey Warden, I guess I just couldn't get as attached to her as the other protagonists. I loved Hawke!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 20:10:58 GMT
Do we know it? Because the decision about allowing a choice of races or restricting it to a human only is a huge and costly one. EDIT: I can see the hints of it in narration, tbh, in retrospect, and perhaps there are easter eggs hints of it in the beginning of the Inquisition. Overall though, I do dearly love Hawke, but I also liked starting at level 1 and playing the Qunari, and would not have traded it for Hawke as my main. Corypheus was literally Hawke's enemy by blood, the entire framing narrative of DA2 (which leads into DA:I a few years later) is about the aftermath of the events in Kirkwall (from the appearance of red lyrium to the tension between mages and templars, the eluvian, the evolution of Cullen's views, etc). Even the fact that the human origin is from a noble Free Marcher city suggests Hawke being part of the original plan. Meh, either way I was fine with Hawke. Because of the humorous dialogue options and the great voice acting from both the male and female voice actor, I like Hawke a lot more than my Grey Warden. Despite me not really like DA2, Hawke is my favorite protagonist out of all three games, with the Inquisitor coming in second. I liked my Grey Warden, I guess I just couldn't get as attached to her as the other protagonists. I loved Hawke! It does not suggest that they planned Hawke to be a DA:I protagonist, just that they would have wanted to have a connection to game 2. Anyway, interesting conversation, thanks for it. I was not around for that period of time, and I was curious. Back to the Ryders :)
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Post by jastall on Mar 30, 2017 20:12:54 GMT
I think a second game as Ryder would work. In the first they're green and somewhat idealistic, in the second Bioware could portray them (within player choice of course) as more experienced and world-weary. I'm not sure about a trilogy.
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Post by suikoden on Mar 30, 2017 20:13:35 GMT
Screw the Ryder's,
Here's how to fix And make up for Andromeda in the next Mass Effect that would have everyone on board - fans and haters alike:
Allow us to customize an alien character, not a human.
Everyone would be posting their custom protagonist and the game would sell millions just for the character creation.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Mar 30, 2017 20:13:47 GMT
It does not suggest that they planned Hawke to be a DA:I protagonist, just that they would have wanted to have a connection to game 2. Anyway, interesting conversation, thanks for it. I was not around for that period of time, and I was curious. Back to the Ryders That would explain it. The sheer amount of vitriol towards not only Hawke in particular but the very idea of a voiced protagonist was staggering. Also, ME2 which everyone now acknowledges is amazing, produced tremendous hysteria about EA turning Mass Effect into a Call of Duty clone.
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Post by Wintermist on Mar 30, 2017 20:16:31 GMT
I really don't care much for what protagonist I am as long as the game is fun. I'll happily switch to someone new, maybe even play as an alien, that would be more fun.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 30, 2017 20:18:51 GMT
With the amount of hilarious gifs and memes associated with the Ryder's, I dont see how you bring them back, unless you give them entirely new faces. Maybe some DLC where they are horribly disfigured and undergo a head transplant (which ironically is happening in real life lol). Their faces are fine. It's just the animations that are bad. Improve the facial animations (make Scott's hair look more realistic instead of like the hair you'd find on a Ken doll) and there won't be any issues. Which will probably be patched before long. If not they just need to focus more on it. As per topic I want to stay with the Ryder's. They may have said it wasn't a trilogy they said exactly the same about ME 1.
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