mrobnoxiousuk
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Apr 5, 2017 0:18:51 GMT
The Genophage wasn't much of an issue,are you kidding me,Krogan mothers were so distraught at almost constantly delivering stillbirth children they volunteered, VOLUNTEERED for the invasive treatments in ME2. The males had so little hope of fathering children they had become Nihilistic and self centred and it was a vicious cycle that was killing the species by inches. It is a non issue in your head canon,well buttercup that is not the way it works.Also if you don't want to hear about it 24/7 don't post your views on a forum,if someone doesn't agree with you they will post. Critical reading skills will take you far in life, "buttercup." Move along. Wow an animated gif that is Defcon 3 at least in deflection of the issue.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 5, 2017 0:28:55 GMT
You have no idea how much I understand... Actually, the genophage isn't even that much of an issue in MEA due to steps that were taken for sustainability for the krogan. It's why the genophage is largely a nonissue and why I don't need to hear about it 24/7! Go play MEA and learn for yourself. Here is the thing, you think you understand but you don't. The first assumption you made is that everyone and anyone who plays Andromeda has already played the Trilogy. This is false. Where you might be partially true with 'a large portion of Andromeda players'. The writers do have to take that into consideration as well thats why some brief history lessons are peppered throughout the game. Think I am wrong? Theorize what kind of shit storm if Bioware didn't include same gender romance. 50 years ago it would have been fine. Today with the change in society about political correctness and inclusiveness ... you get the idea. Secondly, from the tone of your post I speculate that you haven't live in World War 2 Era. I have family members that did. I admit that it is a narrow point of view, but I can understand their deep hatred for the Japanese race for what they did to my people during World War 2. I do not expect you to begin to understand. Its like explaining color to a blind person - but know this, if/when atrocities are committed against your people its not easy to just 'shrug it off' especially if your family members were the victims. Therefore yes, there will be Krogans who will still harbor deep hatred for both Turians and Salarians. There is something known as the codex where BioWare can provide as much context and lore as they'd like. I don't need to be bombarded with a subplot that was resolved five years ago. Most of the lore in the game is in the codex for newcomers, not for veterans. Why should the genophage be any different when its relevance to Andromeda is almost zero percent? You do realize that Mass Effect 3 was the first Mass Effect game to have same gender romance, right? That was five years ago. I think you are about 45 years off there... Believe it or not, but I actually majored in history and government during my undergraduate studies as well as studied World War I and World War II extensively. I also had to learn all about Korematsu v. United States in law school, so I'm quite familiar with Japanese internment, Pearl Harbor, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, the Rape of Nanking, etc. If it wasn't abundantly clear by now, I am an American and both of my grandfathers served in World War II. Comparing history to fiction is utterly ridiculous, but it's even more so because the krogan brought the genophage on themselves. After decimating the rachni, the krogan decided to turn their attention to dominating the entire Milky Way. The krogan were really no different from Nazi Germany endorsing blitzkreig as well as wiping out any opposition. The genophage was an answer to keep the krogan in check, regardless of whether it was morally acceptable or not. The point is, and I've already addressed this, that the krogan in Andromeda largely are not impacted by the genophage nearly as much as the krogan that were living on Tuchanka. The krogan at New Tuchanka are more than capable of sustainable birthrates that won't lead to overpopulation and eventually galactic domination, as their forefathers attempted against the Milky Way. Really, I could debate about krogan and the genophage all day long. The point of the matter is the genophage is a nonissue in MEA and should left in codex where it belongs, like the rest of the lore from the original trilogy. Thanks for making "assumptions" as if you knew exactly who I was though. Pot, meet kettle.
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Post by tatsumaki on Apr 5, 2017 0:55:17 GMT
Here is the thing, you think you understand but you don't. The first assumption you made is that everyone and anyone who plays Andromeda has already played the Trilogy. This is false. Where you might be partially true with 'a large portion of Andromeda players'. The writers do have to take that into consideration as well thats why some brief history lessons are peppered throughout the game. Think I am wrong? Theorize what kind of shit storm if Bioware didn't include same gender romance. 50 years ago it would have been fine. Today with the change in society about political correctness and inclusiveness ... you get the idea. Secondly, from the tone of your post I speculate that you haven't live in World War 2 Era. I have family members that did. I admit that it is a narrow point of view, but I can understand their deep hatred for the Japanese race for what they did to my people during World War 2. I do not expect you to begin to understand. Its like explaining color to a blind person - but know this, if/when atrocities are committed against your people its not easy to just 'shrug it off' especially if your family members were the victims. Therefore yes, there will be Krogans who will still harbor deep hatred for both Turians and Salarians. There is something known as the codex where BioWare can provide as much context and lore as they'd like. I don't need to be bombarded with a subplot that was resolved five years ago. Most of the lore in the game is in the codex for newcomers, not for veterans. Why should the genophage be any different when its relevance to Andromeda is almost zero percent? You do realize that Mass Effect 3 was the first Mass Effect game to have same gender romance, right? That was five years ago. I think you are about 45 years off there... Believe it or not, but I actually majored in history and government during my undergraduate studies as well as studied World War I and World War II extensively. I also had to learn all about Korematsu v. United States in law school, so I'm quite familiar with Japanese internment, Pearl Harbor, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, the Rape of Nanking, etc. If it wasn't abundantly clear by now, I am an American and both of my grandfathers served in World War II. Comparing history to fiction is utterly ridiculous, but it's even more so because the krogan brought the genophage on themselves. After decimating the rachni, the krogan decided to turn their attention to dominating the entire Milky Way. The krogan were really no different from Nazi Germany endorsing blitzkreig as well as wiping out any opposition. The genophage was an answer to keep the krogan in check, regardless of whether it was morally acceptable or not. The point is, and I've already addressed this, that the krogan in Andromeda largely are not impacted by the genophage nearly as much as the krogan that were living on Tuchanka. The krogan at New Tuchanka are more than capable of sustainable birthrates that won't lead to overpopulation and eventually galactic domination, as their forefathers attempted against the Milky Way. Really, I could debate about krogan and the genophage all day long. The point of the matter is the genophage is a nonissue in MEA and should left in codex where it belongs, like the rest of the lore from the original trilogy. Thanks for making "assumptions" as if you knew exactly who I was though. Pot, meet kettle. I like how you resort to playing semantics as your argument. Whether its 50 years or 5 years, thats not the point. The point is society changes and hence results in game developers taking certain considerations where previously was a non issue. Are you going to pedantic now and argue about time precision? Yes the Codex is there but again does everyone read it? Does everyone have the time to read it? This again reinforces my point. You assume that everyone reads it. Not everyone has many hours to game. With what few hours they rather just experience the story line. How is comparing Real Life to fiction ridiculous? Can you not draw parallel lines? If what you say is true then real life human reactions, banter, relationships should not be compared to the sci-fi game at all am I right? I used real life example to illustrate the Krogan's hate for Salarians and Turians. So I am wrong about your history - that much I'll admit but my point stands: Real Life exampel was an illustration. It still reinforces my point of the Krogan's hatred.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 5, 2017 1:07:37 GMT
I like how you resort to playing semantics as your argument. Whether its 50 years or 5 years, thats not the point. The point is society changes and hence results in game developers taking certain considerations where previously was a non issue. Are you going to pedantic now and argue about time precision? Yes the Codex is there but again does everyone read it? Does everyone have the time to read it? This again reinforces my point. You assume that everyone reads it. Not everyone has many hours to game. With what few hours they rather just experience the story line. How is comparing Real Life to fiction ridiculous? Can you not draw parallel lines? If what you say is true then real life human reactions, banter, relationships should not be compared to the sci-fi game at all am I right? I used real life example to illustrate the Krogan's hate for Salarians and Turians. So I am wrong about your history - that much I'll admit but my point stands: Real Life exampel was an illustration. It still reinforces my point of the Krogan's hatred. I'm fully aware society changes. However, five years is not a long time. BioWare is "progressive," but this is hardly something they've been pushing for many games. The codex is there to provide additional context to lore that is either not in the game or not germane to the main plot. The genophage appropriately fits in that box, which is why it should have been relegated to the codex with a mere mention either on New Tuchanka or the Nexus. This has nothing to do with assuming what people read. I'm merely stating where the genophage belongs in the game for practical considerations. The motivations of fictitious turtle aliens compared to the motivations of real life humans is erroneous and incompatible. As I said, the krogan destroyed themselves. The genophage was just the result and reminder from the galaxy due to the krogan's transgressions against the entire galaxy. For every krogan baby that is stillborn, how many salarians, turians, etc., were slaughtered by the krogan during their campaign for galactic domination? The krogan are hypocrites, regardless of whether the genophage was the right response or not. Mistakes were made on both sides, but the krogan are hardly innocent in all of this.
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Post by tatsumaki on Apr 5, 2017 1:12:36 GMT
I like how you resort to playing semantics as your argument. Whether its 50 years or 5 years, thats not the point. The point is society changes and hence results in game developers taking certain considerations where previously was a non issue. Are you going to pedantic now and argue about time precision? Yes the Codex is there but again does everyone read it? Does everyone have the time to read it? This again reinforces my point. You assume that everyone reads it. Not everyone has many hours to game. With what few hours they rather just experience the story line. How is comparing Real Life to fiction ridiculous? Can you not draw parallel lines? If what you say is true then real life human reactions, banter, relationships should not be compared to the sci-fi game at all am I right? I used real life example to illustrate the Krogan's hate for Salarians and Turians. So I am wrong about your history - that much I'll admit but my point stands: Real Life exampel was an illustration. It still reinforces my point of the Krogan's hatred. I'm fully aware society changes. However, five years is not a long time. BioWare is "progressive," but this is hardly something they've been pushing for many games. The codex is there to provide additional context to lore that is either not in the game or not germane to the main plot. The genophage appropriately fits in that box, which is why it should have been relegated to the codex with a mere mention either on New Tuchanka or the Nexus. This has nothing to do with assuming what people read. I'm merely stating where the genophage belongs in the game for practical considerations. The motivations of fictitious turtle aliens compared to the motivations of real life humans is erroneous and incompatible. As I said, the krogan destroyed themselves. The genophage was just the constant remark from the galaxy due to the krogan transgressions against the entire galaxy. For every krogan baby that is stillborn, how many salarians, turians, etc., were slaughtered by the krogan during their campaign for galactic domination? The krogan are hypocrites, regardless of whether the genophage was the right response or not. Mistakes were made on both sides, but the krogan are hardly innocent in all of this. Then we've come one full circle. You believe that the Genophage shouldn't be in game with reasoning of the existence of the Codex. I have no qualms about the disease being in game. So, 1+(-1) = ?? Back at square one. So with the lack of factual data then the next best thing is your poll that says most people have no qualms about it. \O_o/
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 5, 2017 1:18:13 GMT
I've played pretty far and I've not had the genophage show up that often.
They are settling a new area and not mentioning the genophage at all would have been a mistake. And when you put Salarians, Turians, and Krogans in the same room, it's very likely going to come up if negotiations come up due to the Krogans feeling like the other two races owe them for the pain and suffering the genophage brought them.
That all being said, I do also hope that it doesn't become a major plot point in this game like it did in the MET. Put it in an optional side quest or have it be read over the news "In a turn of events, XXX has developed a cure for the genophage, parties are in disagreement on just how fast the cure should be spread out."
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 5, 2017 1:29:18 GMT
Then we've come one full circle. You believe that the Genophage shouldn't be in game with reasoning of the existence of the Codex. I have no qualms about the disease being in game. So, 1+(-1) = ?? Back at square one. So with the lack of factual data then the next best thing is your poll that says most people have no qualms about it. \O_o/ I don't believe it should be so heavily showcased in the game. I'm fine with a minor mention just so everybody knows it's still around. Any additional exposition can be left in the codex, where it belongs. The only thing my poll seems to suggest is that folks are happy to hear about issues that were resolved five years ago (even MEA resolves it) and would rather tread over previous ground rather than hear something new. I've played pretty far and I've not had the genophage show up that often. They are settling a new area and not mentioning the genophage at all would have been a mistake. And when you put Salarians, Turians, and Krogans in the same room, it's very likely going to come up if negotiations come up due to the Krogans feeling like the other two races owe them for the pain and suffering the genophage brought them. That all being said, I do also hope that it doesn't become a major plot point in this game like it did in the MET. Put it in an optional side quest or have it be read over the news "In a turn of events, XXX has developed a cure for the genophage, parties are in disagreement on just how fast the cure should be spread out." I'm fine with the genophage having a minor presence. I just don't want to hear about it when talking to a majority of the krogan in the game. The genophage is "bad" and I've known that for a decade. Mission accomplished. Lets move on to something new now.
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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 5, 2017 9:57:20 GMT
I am interested in how a "partially" cured Genophage will affect things.
After all, now Krograns give birth to 40 times their previous number of children.
Also, Kesh it turns out is apparently immune to the Genophage completely (and one of those Krogan who mutated past it which Mordin tried to get rid of) since she gave birth completely live young. Presumably, this will pass to her children and will pass on to the rest.
But I do think the Genophage being ALLEVIATED is going to affect the Krogan a great deal.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 5, 2017 10:16:48 GMT
I don't believe it should be so heavily showcased in the game. I'm fine with a minor mention just so everybody knows it's still around. Any additional exposition can be left in the codex, where it belongs. The only thing my poll seems to suggest is that folks are happy to hear about issues that were resolved five years ago (even MEA resolves it) and would rather tread over previous ground rather than hear something new. I'm fine with the genophage having a minor presence. I just don't want to hear about it when talking to a majority of the krogan in the game. The genophage is "bad" and I've known that for a decade. Mission accomplished. Lets move on to something new now. You should really have phrased your OP better then. I'm tired of hearing these genophage moans as much as you. But curing it without a retcon for original crazy numbers would be a disaster for Heleus, hence why I voted "no".
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Post by Rochrok on Apr 5, 2017 13:35:45 GMT
The Genophage can stay in the game, I'm just over listening to the Krogan complain about it.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 5, 2017 17:57:47 GMT
I don't believe it should be so heavily showcased in the game. I'm fine with a minor mention just so everybody knows it's still around. Any additional exposition can be left in the codex, where it belongs. The only thing my poll seems to suggest is that folks are happy to hear about issues that were resolved five years ago (even MEA resolves it) and would rather tread over previous ground rather than hear something new. I'm fine with the genophage having a minor presence. I just don't want to hear about it when talking to a majority of the krogan in the game. The genophage is "bad" and I've known that for a decade. Mission accomplished. Lets move on to something new now. You should really have phrased your OP better then. I'm tired of hearing these genophage moans as much as you. But curing it without a retcon for original crazy numbers would be a disaster for Heleus, hence why I voted "no". Indeed. This definitely seems to be a case of words being lost in translation. But, I don't believe it's because of poor wording. Rather, it's a lack of understanding the OP. I never even stated I wanted a "cure." I just don't want to hear about the damn thing after dealing with it for three games. I'm quite aware it's still a thing and that's fine. It just shouldn't be a major focus since there is plenty of new stuff BioWare is better suited fleshing out.
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Post by danishgambit on Apr 5, 2017 18:42:53 GMT
I was more irritated that they found some random genetic thing that made it less effective. The Krogan have been dealing with it for generations and for them to just so happen to find some key to getting rid of it or even a cure just seems waaaaay too coincidental. It's kind of like how Leliana can become a lyrium ghost, some thing they just made up to shove her into DAI. I don't like stuff like that... They're probably just going to write off genophage anyway so they can have lots of Krogan in Andromeda.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 5, 2017 19:32:25 GMT
I was more irritated that they found some random genetic thing that made it less effective. The Krogan have been dealing with it for generations and for them to just so happen to find some key to getting rid of it or even a cure just seems waaaaay too coincidental. It's kind of like how Leliana can become a lyrium ghost, some thing they just made up to shove her into DAI. I don't like stuff like that... They're probably just going to write off genophage anyway so they can have lots of Krogan in Andromeda. BioWare wants to mitigate the genophage considering that was beaten to death in the last three games. I don't blame them, although I think they could have minimized the dialogue even more so. That content should have been in the codex and left the primary dialogue for new issues, such as settlements.
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 5, 2017 23:06:28 GMT
I was more irritated that they found some random genetic thing that made it less effective. The Krogan have been dealing with it for generations and for them to just so happen to find some key to getting rid of it or even a cure just seems waaaaay too coincidental. It's kind of like how Leliana can become a lyrium ghost, some thing they just made up to shove her into DAI. I don't like stuff like that... They're probably just going to write off genophage anyway so they can have lots of Krogan in Andromeda. Mutations happen, though. And it's already been stated in the MET that the Krogan had mutated to make the genophage less of an issue. So them mutating again wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
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Post by nougat on Apr 7, 2017 13:51:41 GMT
I would go even further, OP. Personally I irritated that MEA has prominent krogan' presence at all. And third (!) krogan squadmate (not even optional this time), while we barely have any alien squadmate diversity across four games. But it's inevitable since asari and krogan are both favourited by devs and fanbase.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 14:21:07 GMT
No, one can never have enough chances to exterminate the Krogans! An ME game w/o Krogan is still a dream... I believe!
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 7, 2017 14:35:33 GMT
I was actually more irritated by the fact that no cares anymore in this game. They stabilized birth rates with some sort of gene therapy and the krogan are good with everything. End of story. If it was so easy to stabilize the situation to everyone's benefit, that makes the Milky Way people look really incompetent, doesn't it? I mean, a thte same time, that this problem is already figured out when the ARKs leave (which is when the gene therapy begins, Mordin Solus doesn't really have a handle on this and Maelon is performing horrific experiments on Krogan Females on Tuchanka for ... what exactly? Are those two idiots? Or did the Initiative withhold their solution before they left the Milky Way?
Yet another instance where Andromeda authors shove easy solutions on what used to be enormous problems, just to get an issue out of the way in order to tell their cool new stories. I do like the new stories well enough but the way it's all set up is pathetic.
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Post by nougat on Apr 7, 2017 14:46:01 GMT
No, one can never have enough chances to exterminate the Krogans! An ME game w/o Krogan is still a dream... I believe! Nah, I'm not looking for any race extermination. The original trilogy had enough mandatory genocide (like the Thorian, the whole Reapers business). I'm just tired of the same themes with the same aliens. Where is the new blood... The angara and kett are also extremely disappointing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 14:59:56 GMT
No, one can never have enough chances to exterminate the Krogans! An ME game w/o Krogan is still a dream... I believe! Nah, I'm not looking for any race extermination. The original trilogy had enough mandatory genocide (like the Thorian, the whole Reapers business). I'm just tired of the same themes with the same aliens. Where is the new blood... The angara and kett are also extremely disappointing. I like Kett and Angara. I am out of gas on Asari and Krogans. They are really one trick ponies, and I am tired of getting them on the team.
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Post by wiccame on Apr 7, 2017 16:32:33 GMT
If they didn't reference it even just a little bit you would get people complaining that it had been forgotten and or ignored by Bioware, thus not sticking to their own lore. This way it's not too much but just enough to let people know it's still somewhat of an issue for the Andromeda Krogan.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 7, 2017 17:51:58 GMT
Uhm no...because apparently the initiative left before Mordin Solus adapted the Genophage thus the krogan in Andromeda likely will evolve past the Genophage in a generation, maybe less
Hence why Kesh's babies are all healthy and alive in the eggs at the end of Andromeda
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 7, 2017 20:26:38 GMT
I was actually more irritated by the fact that no cares anymore in this game. They stabilized birth rates with some sort of gene therapy and the krogan are good with everything. End of story. If it was so easy to stabilize the situation to everyone's benefit, that makes the Milky Way people look really incompetent, doesn't it? I mean, a thte same time, that this problem is already figured out when the ARKs leave (which is when the gene therapy begins, Mordin Solus doesn't really have a handle on this and Maelon is performing horrific experiments on Krogan Females on Tuchanka for ... what exactly? Are those two idiots? Or did the Initiative withhold their solution before they left the Milky Way? Yet another instance where Andromeda authors shove easy solutions on what used to be enormous problems, just to get an issue out of the way in order to tell their cool new stories. I do like the new stories well enough but the way it's all set up is pathetic. Could be that they had no one to give that solution to. It was no secret that most of the races out there believed that the Krogan deserved the genophage and that it was necessary for it to stay for galactic peace to be kept.
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Post by Croatsky on Apr 7, 2017 21:14:24 GMT
... Genophage isn't cured until much after Andromeda Initiative leaves Milky Way.
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Revan Reborn
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 8, 2017 5:14:06 GMT
If they didn't reference it even just a little bit you would get people complaining that it had been forgotten and or ignored by Bioware, thus not sticking to their own lore. This way it's not too much but just enough to let people know it's still somewhat of an issue for the Andromeda Krogan. A simple codex entry and a minor mention from Kesh wouldn't have sufficed? I'm not saying to eradicate the genophage's existence from the game. However, I don't want to retread issues that were solved in the previous games either. This is supposed to be about a new galaxy with new problems. ... Genophage isn't cured until much after Andromeda Initiative leaves Milky Way. Thanks for telling the obvious... assuming you were a Paragon Shepard that cured the genophage. That was not the point of the OP.
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Croatsky
N4
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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2287
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Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Post by Croatsky on Apr 8, 2017 5:36:08 GMT
Thanks for telling the obvious... assuming you were a Paragon Shepard that cured the genophage. That was not the point of the OP. Well your point is overall dumb. There's no freaking way AI would have capability to cure genophage, not within only couple of decades as everyone else failed for centuries. Only Salarian scientists, like Mordin, that worked on genophage continuously all their adult career lives were capable to get even close to curing it.
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