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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 15:01:01 GMT
Probably, but I don't mind SAM despite disliking Synthesis.
Ryder & SAM never try to force everyone in Heleus to merge with A.I.
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Post by Turian Werewolf on Apr 4, 2017 15:05:25 GMT
they aren't really exploring the subject, SAM's connection with Ryder is not really up for critique except by cartoonish villains in a side quest and the occasional remark from Drack. its presented largely and uncritically as a subjective good. Given it even happens to Ryder unknowingly and in order to "save" him/her, all we're missing is the glowing green eyes and skin circuitry. Fair points. I haven't finished the game yet so I try and refrain from chiming in on as many of these topics as possible, but I was assuming the SAM/Ryder stuff would play a major role in the ending. Sad to hear it's not as interesting as I was hoping for.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 15:06:21 GMT
since Synthesis is the most abhorrent thiing to come out of the mass effect universe, removing diversity from every organism in the milky way potentially allowing easier genetic manipulation by the reapers (did nobody play mass effect 2 and get the message?), it being a method of total long term genocide of every species in the milky way, there is nothing to be proud of by associating SAM with Galactic wide borgification.
Maybe SAM is just SAM?
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Post by themikefest on Apr 4, 2017 15:13:42 GMT
Destroy is the only good ending that matters! That's right. We destroy them, or they destroy us.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 4, 2017 15:15:09 GMT
It seems rather obvious that Synthsis was supposed to be the "good" ending according to BW. So maybe. Was the first thing I thought of when I saw the first memories...
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Post by Iakus on Apr 4, 2017 15:16:25 GMT
Given it even happens to Ryder unknowingly and in order to "save" him/her, all we're missing is the glowing green eyes and skin circuitry. Fair points. I haven't finished the game yet so I try and refrain from chiming in on as many of these topics as possible, but I was assuming the SAM/Ryder stuff would play a major role in the ending. Sad to hear it's not as interesting as I was hoping for. I wasn't even talking about the ending, I'm talking about the beginning. As in the tutorial!
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Post by ShiftyCow on Apr 4, 2017 15:16:42 GMT
The ULTIMATE renegade decision. Yes, my Shepard IS god-like and has the intestinal fortitude to run the whole show.
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Post by snook on Apr 4, 2017 15:17:33 GMT
Destroy is the only good ending that matters! Refusal is the most realistic ending...screw human exceptionalism. 20,000 cycles and suddenly humans save the Galaxy.
Of course they do, cause YOUMANITY, FUCK YEAH, COMIN' AGAIN TO SAVE THE MOTHERFUCKIN DAY YEAH
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Post by Iakus on Apr 4, 2017 15:22:35 GMT
since Synthesis is the most abhorrent thiing to come out of the mass effect universe, removing diversity from every organism in the milky way potentially allowing easier genetic manipulation by the reapers (did nobody play mass effect 2 and get the message?), it being a method of total long term genocide of every species in the milky way, there is nothing to be proud of by associating SAM with Galactic wide borgification. Maybe SAM is just SAM? You and I know that, but Bioware is convinced it's the optimal "solution" And what we believe doesn't matter.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 15:31:00 GMT
Problem with this line of thinking is people seem to view Andromeda as ME4. It is not ME4.
If it was, it would be a continuation of ME3 set in the same galaxy with the same characters, and would be set after Shepard makes his final choice. A direct sequel of sorts.
Instead, it's set in a different galaxy where you're the aliens, with a different cast of characters and antagonists. That, and the arks left before ME3 happened.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 4, 2017 15:40:53 GMT
Problem with this line of thinking is people seem to view Andromeda as ME4. It is not ME4. If it was, it would be a continuation of ME3 set in the same galaxy with the same characters, and would be set after Shepard makes his final choice. A direct sequel of sorts. Instead, it's set in a different galaxy where you're the aliens, with a different cast of characters and antagonists. That, and they left before ME3 happened. It's the same timeline. Several of the same characters are mentioned, and it is set after Shepard makes his or her final choice. That the choice and its outcome are unmentioned thus far does not mean the choice didn't happen.
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Post by Vortex13 on Apr 4, 2017 15:53:47 GMT
Yeah I'm not a big fan of the Synthesis connotation either. Really though, I find the whole transhumanism via AI integration angle to be a little overdone in the media these days.
Why is nobody looking at the other side of the coin on this? Advancement through genetic modification and gene splicing techniques? I would think that a story centered around how Ryder can modify their body to gain gills, or wings, or a redundant circulatory system, etc. in order to better explore and adapt to the Helus cluster; and the overarching theme of whether they are still human after said augmentations; would make for a more unique story at the very least.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 16:08:40 GMT
It's the same timeline. Several of the same characters are mentioned, and it is set after Shepard makes his or her final choice. That the choice and its outcome are unmentioned thus far does not mean the choice didn't happen. It's not the same thing. The arks leave between ME2 and ME3, and they arrive in Andromeda 634 years later. That's the key that it's not a sequel. If it was, the arks would leave after ME3 and arrive in Andromeda 634 years later.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 4, 2017 16:17:03 GMT
Kinda is. That it is not a direct sequel does not mean it's not set in the same universe/continuity at a later date. So it is a continuation of Mass Effect, even if it's not a continuation of Shepard's story. Just as DAI is a continuation of DA2, though with a different protagonist. Or Star Trek Voyager was a continuation of the Star Trek franchise, even if it's not a continuation of TNG's or DS9's adventures. Still the same setting, same universe. The events in the other series still took place. And of course, MEA continues the same tired "solution" that meat alone is insufficient. You need your Greens too
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 17:11:13 GMT
I'll just...leave this here.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 4, 2017 17:40:14 GMT
There's no doubt that SAM's connection with Ryder is meant as a "This is what synthesis is" demonstration. Granted I'm still fuzzy on how, exactly, an AI - which is software, lines of code - can have the effect that SAM has; if it's the implant, why do you need an AI to use it? Oh well, artificial intelligence is magic, got it.
That being said I've always been conflicted on the synthesis ending, personally. On the one hand I'm actually a big believer in transhumanism as a positive concept, the idea of enhancing ourselves via technology is something that I think is the next step in our evolution. But I also believe that it's something that should be an individual's choice and shouldn't be forced on billions if not trillions of people at the whims of one person. From a narrative perspective I also much prefer Destruction as I prefer the idea of victory coming at the cost of heavy sacrifice.
I also think that out of all the endings, Synthesis is the least likely to be canonnized - I don't think they'll ever give a canon ending but that's neither here nor there. But synthesis offers a particular plothole that you can get around with the others; why haven't the Post-War, Synthesized Milky Way races already beaten the initiative to Andromeda? It's been estimated that Reapers could make the trip to Andromeda in less than half the time the Arks did, and the initiative wasn't a secret project, and it's revealed in the early game that at the very least, Liara was aware of it. So in the synthesis ending, when you have actual, functional, apparently fully sentient, self aware Reapers working along side the Milky Way community to rebuild, and teaching them the knowledge of the species that they themselves are made from, would it be that hard to convince one of them to go, "hey, let's go make sure those initiative guys in Heleus have a good start?"
With Control, you can get away with saying that the Reapers aren't actively participating in Galactic life, they're just Cat-Shep's guard dogs. With Destruction, you've got a longer rebuilding period and you can say that reverse-engineered Reaper tech isn't as good so they haven't caught up yet. With Synthesis, it's harder to say why they didn't end up lapping the initiative.
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Post by qwib on Apr 4, 2017 17:42:36 GMT
I want a SAM in my head. Everytime I want to get out of an annoying Situation like a family gathering, I just drop dead.
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Apr 4, 2017 17:48:29 GMT
Problem with this line of thinking is people seem to view Andromeda as ME4. It is not ME4. If it was, it would be a continuation of ME3 set in the same galaxy with the same characters, and would be set after Shepard makes his final choice. A direct sequel of sorts. Instead, it's set in a different galaxy where you're the aliens, with a different cast of characters and antagonists. That, and the arks left before ME3 happened. I disagree with your line of thinking. (and I followed your link too.) The issue is not whether or not ME:A is a sequel to the Shepard Trilogy (it's not, fwiw, we can agree on that), it's that Bioware already attempted to push Synthesis as the 'best ending' of the original Trilogy (higher Galactic Readiness required for it to be unlocked, at least prior to the extended cut), and they've gone for a significant Synthesis plotline within an hour of arriving in Andromeda. It's pretty blatant. I wish I could turn SAM off, kill whichever twin has it installed, and just wait for the other to wake up. (I'm about a third into the SP campaign, enjoying it for the most part.) Bioware wants humans to 'celebrate our diversity' by, y'know, making us all the same shade of sexually ambiguous cyborg. Or so it seems to me. I don't really care, I'm just glad they included us left-handers in their crusade.
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Post by kino on Apr 4, 2017 17:49:28 GMT
I don't see it. Synthesis was a complete merging of organic and synthetics. Hell, even the synthetics were "alive". This is more of a Zhatil situation, and not even that since it's not an actual merge, more of a comm link between an AI and an organic.
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Post by simsimillia on Apr 4, 2017 18:11:07 GMT
To be honest, SAM reminded me very little of the Synthesis ending and actually felt a lot like a character I made for a Mass Effect RP. It's actually the same basic idea that was also explored in Overlord. An AI interfaced and dependant on a human (or Asari or Krogan or Salarian,...) to prevent them from going rogue and killing everyone. My character had the problem that her AI was a little bit on the murderous site because it was designed as a weapon.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 4, 2017 18:19:40 GMT
The ending is a sign of BioWare's preference for Synthesis. Their constant attendance at diversity panels is a sign that their artistic vision is indeed Synthesis where the difference of man and machine is the metaphor for difference of "majority vs minority".
Synthesis is the Grey ending in ME3 where "everyone are equal". Leliana's ending in DA:I was "everyone is equal" but it's interesting there becuase as Gaider presented it, that ending was not inherently ideal as the game depitcted it as fallible. Context is way different so you can't say. Regardless, I think the concept of synthesis and the motivation for making it is BioWare's tendency to be inclusive. The whole "synthetics are people too" thing in ME3 was BioWare's canadian values shining through.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 19:16:23 GMT
I hope I won't end up with the plot of Remnants killing the organics so that they don't create synthetics. Nah, it's going to be completely different. It's going to be about organics killing synthetics so they don't create more organics.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Apr 4, 2017 19:39:36 GMT
The ending is a sign of BioWare's preference for Synthesis. Their constant attendance at diversity panels is a sign that their artistic vision is indeed Synthesis where the difference of man and machine is the metaphor for difference of "majority vs minority". Synthesis is the Grey ending in ME3 where "everyone are equal". Leliana's ending in DA:I was "everyone is equal" but it's interesting there becuase as Gaider presented it, that ending was not inherently ideal as the game depitcted it as fallible. Context is way different so you can't say. Regardless, I think the concept of synthesis and the motivation for making it is BioWare's tendency to be inclusive. The whole "synthetics are people too" thing in ME3 was BioWare's canadian values shining through. Lolwut So, folks, in the ME universe, AI and organics eventually end up fighting each other because AI end up independent and surpass their masters in the "food chain", and organics inevitably become threatened by that, and they can't really understand each other's fee-fees. Sometimes AI see it coming and launch a preemptive strike, other times the organics do, and that just makes the divide worse. This is just a "law" in the ME universe and if you want to play in their sandbox, you have to just accept that. Element zero and biotics are a thing, the inescapable divide between organics and AI are another thing. MEA, if it's to contain any AI characters in its narrative, is going to have to deal with that natural law. Ergo, the SAM/Ryder "synthesis." This doesn't necessarily mean "SYNTHESIS IS BW's CANON!" Individual devs may have preferences for their playthroughs, but I doubt it's a studio-wide ethos. How you paranoid motherfuckers always take an in-game choice and leap right into "OH NO THIS IS THE CHOICE BIOWARE ACTUALLY ONLY CONSIDRS VALID AND CANON!! SYNETHEIS ANS DEFAULT WORLD STATE ARE TRUE CANNON THEY SECRETLY WANT U TO TAKE!!!!" I'll never understand. Ditto for seeing secret messages and agendas in them. "THSI IS THEIR VISON FOR REAL WORLD ISSUES!2"
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Post by Lazarus on Apr 4, 2017 19:52:59 GMT
I hate synthesis, but I was hoping Bioware would make synthesis canon and then make another trilogy trying defeat synthesis.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 4, 2017 19:53:23 GMT
I may have misled you because I said it was the Grey ending but we all know it's really the Green ending, so I'm just full of BS. Anyway, it's my take on why they seemed to favor synthesis as being the final unlockable choice and what its value was in their eyes. And while it's not 100% widespread on a studio level I suggest you go check out the twitter of various profilic employees and see how much they just preach the kind of thinking I described. I say that as if it's a bad thing which it isn't necessarily, but it is when they're on that PC bandwagon, going to QGCon, Patrick saying "we will fight for you!" for Transgenders, having already written Krem as if it wasn't obvious enough, and posting a pic of Sara Ryder and going "Look at how badass she is STRONG FEMALE WHATEVER TM". I sound like I hate females and transgenders which is not true. It's the way this form of inclusivity is done as part of the game's art that bothers me as, for example, I do not believe in the high-level vision of Synthesis which is that "we should all be on the same level of equality regardless of difference" and it's done in such a generic one-size-fits-all way that it just becomes a form of mindlessly preachy pandering. Their ideal for synthetics and organics in-universe to say that we're so equal we should literally be the same is a much less nuanced and interesting form of equality from a narrative POV than to highlight the differences and tell a story of two parts accepting each other despite how different they are. Instead the agenda forced down your throat as the best resolution that happens... "because" and I'm saying all this as if the ending scenario of 3 even fits its own story which it doesn't. As for MEA's ending which I was actually supposed to refer to in the first place I just think it's like Synthesis in the sense that it's another ending that has some space-magic device that makes "everything perfect".
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