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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 6, 2017 12:30:53 GMT
I'm really surprised there are only 2 new races. I think the remnants are reapers so they don't seem new. The kett might be collectors. Any speculation on why there are so few aliens in Andromeda compared to the Milky Way? So far I've encountered more humans on all the planets. We dominated this galaxy, next. Actually, if I heard right, the Angarans said the Kett "arrived" in the cluster, or their boss did, so they're not from there either, so it's technically only one new sentient race. But don't forget all the new wildlife, they count right? It has been commonly established that the Kett are indeed not native to Heleus, they have an entire Empire, whos size is currently unknown, and the Archon is basically just a regional governor going AWOL.
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Post by Croatsky on Apr 6, 2017 12:31:31 GMT
Are the Remnant even technically a race? Also, don't forget the Angara. Not the Remnant bots we fight in game, but their creators are a species that we don't know about much. As well whoever created the Scourge could also be another species. So we have 2 alien species in Heleus Cluster local to Andromeda, 1 that used to be there but fled centuries ago and potentially another that made Remnant's creators flee.
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Post by zeratul12 on Apr 6, 2017 12:48:29 GMT
That being said the Kett apparently have some ability to travel between clusters as they aren't native to Heleus, either, and their ships are specified in the codex as being less advanced than what the Systems Alliance was fielding before the Arks left. Which means the Kett must be using something (Like a relay) to get across the clusters. However the devs have said that the Reapers will not be returning for a main villain role (or something along those lines that I interpreted it as) so they cant have ever occupied the Andromeda system to put Reaper Mass Relays, so who? and if there is something does it work just like a Mass Relay or uses a different method like opening up a wormhole or hyperspace lanes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 12:52:43 GMT
Are the Remnant even technically a race? Also, don't forget the Angara. Not the Remnant bots we fight in game, but their creators are a species that we don't know about much. As well whoever created the Scourge could also be another species. So we have 2 alien species in Heleus Cluster local to Andromeda, 1 that used to be there but fled centuries ago and potentially another that made Remnant's creators flee. So then we only met two Andromeda races, but they're actually the Kett and the Angara. We didn't meet the Jardaan or whoever made the Scourge, and the Remnant aren't technically a race, just machines the Jardaan built.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 6, 2017 13:06:44 GMT
Why on earth do people not use their brains? This complaint is ridiculous. WE ARE DEALING WITH ONLY A SINGLE STAR CLUSTER. The scientific odds of finding even ONE race of intelligent life in a cluster is slim to none, but TWO? Are all of you insane? Do you not comprehend the scientific improbability of what you're asking? Tell me, how many races did we discover in the Hades Gamma Cluster? ZERO. What about the Kelper Verge Cluster? ZERO. What about the Hawking Eta Cluster? ZERO. I could go on all day with the same result. It's absolutely ridiculous that people expect an entire complex galactic society inside of a single star cluster. That's a flaw with bioware (and any game period that plays by lore/science rules)People aren't looking into a game with what makes sense and what doesn't, nor the lore or "science" (you know, cuz it's not like Mass Effect has never contracted "science" before). It's really simple, people expected various new races, bioware could've opened up the story to a galactic level rather than one cluster. Damn the science lol, very few are going to give a damn about that.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 6, 2017 13:16:25 GMT
Why on earth do people not use their brains? This complaint is ridiculous. WE ARE DEALING WITH ONLY A SINGLE STAR CLUSTER. The scientific odds of finding even ONE race of intelligent life in a cluster is slim to none, but TWO? Are all of you insane? Do you not comprehend the scientific improbability of what you're asking? Tell me, how many races did we discover in the Hades Gamma Cluster? ZERO. What about the Kelper Verge Cluster? ZERO. What about the Hawking Eta Cluster? ZERO. I could go on all day with the same result. It's absolutely ridiculous that people expect an entire complex galactic society inside of a single star cluster. That's a flaw with bioware (and any game period that plays by lore/science rules)People aren't looking into a game with what makes sense and what doesn't, nor the lore or "science" (you know, cuz it's not like Mass Effect has never contracted "science" before). It's really simple, people expected various new races, bioware could've opened up the story to a galactic level rather than one cluster. Damn the science lol, very few are going to give a damn about that. And Bioware is trying to avoid the same mistakes that caused the clusterfuck that required this reboot to begin with. I think they have the right idea personally.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 6, 2017 13:28:28 GMT
That's a flaw with bioware (and any game period that plays by lore/science rules)People aren't looking into a game with what makes sense and what doesn't, nor the lore or "science" (you know, cuz it's not like Mass Effect has never contracted "science" before). It's really simple, people expected various new races, bioware could've opened up the story to a galactic level rather than one cluster. Damn the science lol, very few are going to give a damn about that. And Bioware is trying to avoid the same mistakes that caused the clusterfuck that required this reboot to begin with. I think they have the right idea personally. The idea is fine, the issue is as I said, most people honestly don't care for science/lore reasons being what dictates a game. I myself don't care (it did kind of make it seem like I did in previous post but I was more or less saying how another would view it) if they go that path, I honestly think it helps separate it from other games that follow lore/science at a minimum. The issue with going the lore/science way is it can potentially restrict a dev, and as the case here some feel it already has since we only meet two (I say three as I do count the remant) races. A lot of people expected Andromeda to be like ME1 in the sense of meeting various races. I myself wanted various races too but I do understand the science/lore behind what they're doing. The other issue with biowares approach though is people will get tired of the MW species already since this is their 4th game having them with minimal newer races.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 6, 2017 13:35:57 GMT
New Galaxy 2 new races Worse art direction No drama Weaker lore
Great combo.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 6, 2017 14:16:43 GMT
And Bioware is trying to avoid the same mistakes that caused the clusterfuck that required this reboot to begin with. I think they have the right idea personally. The idea is fine, the issue is as I said, most people honestly don't care for science/lore reasons being what dictates a game. I myself don't care (it did kind of make it seem like I did in previous post but I was more or less saying how another would view it) if they go that path, I honestly think it helps separate it from other games that follow lore/science at a minimum. The issue with going the lore/science way is it can potentially restrict a dev, and as the case here some feel it already has since we only meet two (I say three as I do count the remant) races. A lot of people expected Andromeda to be like ME1 in the sense of meeting various races. I myself wanted various races too but I do understand the science/lore behind what they're doing. The other issue with biowares approach though is people will get tired of the MW species already since this is their 4th game having them with minimal newer races. I would personally argue that limitations and restrictions is more often than not the best way to achieve the most creative result. Compare A New Hope to The Phantom Menace in that regard. A New Hope had a shoe-string budget, went through like a dozen re-writes, very limited deadline, and all of 3 people actually believed in it. The Phantom Menace had a bagrillion money for budget, unlimited time to work on it and was propped up by arguably the most popular sci-fi franchise of all time. Granted these factors alone did not determine those films, but they certainly played a role.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 6, 2017 14:18:19 GMT
It's like you only visited Tasmania so far, and still have the rest of the world to explore. Bigger empires, more advanced species, etc. But yes, I wished for more diversity too.
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Post by jackdaniel on Apr 6, 2017 14:28:17 GMT
Why on earth do people not use their brains? This complaint is ridiculous. WE ARE DEALING WITH ONLY A SINGLE STAR CLUSTER. The scientific odds of finding even ONE race of intelligent life in a cluster is slim to none, but TWO? Are all of you insane? Do you not comprehend the scientific improbability of what you're asking? Tell me, how many races did we discover in the Hades Gamma Cluster? ZERO. What about the Kelper Verge Cluster? ZERO. What about the Hawking Eta Cluster? ZERO. I could go on all day with the same result. It's absolutely ridiculous that people expect an entire complex galactic society inside of a single star cluster. I think that's outta the window once you throw in advance alien terraforming device. And sentient life creating technology So yea, they already went that far, how much more of a stretch would it be to have 3 alien race and 10 habitable planets?
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 6, 2017 14:32:14 GMT
For a single cluster we are lucky we got two. Back in the MW we had access to clusters all over the galaxy thanks to the relays.
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Post by kino on Apr 6, 2017 15:04:09 GMT
New galaxy, one small cluster of it. I suspect that once a means of traveling all over the galaxy is discovered/made more races will be introduced.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 6, 2017 15:10:02 GMT
That's a flaw with bioware (and any game period that plays by lore/science rules)People aren't looking into a game with what makes sense and what doesn't, nor the lore or "science" (you know, cuz it's not like Mass Effect has never contracted "science" before). It's really simple, people expected various new races, bioware could've opened up the story to a galactic level rather than one cluster. Damn the science lol, very few are going to give a damn about that. You really want to say that Bio could have done this? The existing budget, timetable, and skills didn't give us good animations for the races we have. Adding more races would have made this even worse. Although I suppose it wouldn't have been too hard to throw in equivalents to the hanar and elcor, who are both essentially set decoration.
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Post by avalon on Apr 6, 2017 15:14:08 GMT
I dunno, one entirely new unknown species should be enough. Or three if you count the kett and the remnent. That's three species in one little cluster fam. Heh it's like if we discover aliens tomorrow, would someone say ''What, it's only them?''
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Post by ticktak77 on Apr 6, 2017 15:15:11 GMT
This. Did the "it's only one cluster" brigade play the original trilogy? Did you? The local cluster evolved one sentient species, humans. Other races were from different clusters. So you are saying there were more than 2 races in a single cluster? Thought so.
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Post by helios969 on Apr 6, 2017 15:26:31 GMT
The answer is even more simple than a single star cluster. Resources. Would people be willing to leave the various MW races behind to introduce a half dozen new species? I think we all know the answer to that.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 6, 2017 15:33:22 GMT
Did you? The local cluster evolved one sentient species, humans. Other races were from different clusters. So you are saying there were more than 2 races in a single cluster? Thought so. I don't follow this. She's pointing out that the ME:A distribution of races is just fine, in the absence of a galactic rapid transit system. Are you disagreeing?
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 6, 2017 15:34:07 GMT
Did you? The local cluster evolved one sentient species, humans. Other races were from different clusters. So you are saying there were more than 2 races in a single cluster? Thought so. Are you taking the piss? That is not at all what I said. In fact there is less than 1 race per cluster because not all clusters have a sentient race. There are far more clusters in the Milkyway there are sentient races.
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Post by Civ on Apr 6, 2017 16:06:01 GMT
I think we might be missing a critical issue - how much havoc did the "Scourge" play on sentient life?
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 6, 2017 19:01:29 GMT
I think many seem to be forgetting that the Heleus Cluster appears to have been a dead cluster before the Jardaan arrived. What I mean by a "dead cluster" is the Jardaan allegedly went to the cluster to terraform planets and restore (or create) them. Even the Angara were created by the Jardaan, implying there were no other species in the Heleus Cluster. It's silly to compare the Heleus Cluster to others because it has been built by artificial means, rather than natural evolution. It should also be noted that the Kett have performed exaltation on over 1000 species in the Andromeda galaxy. Even if there were other species to see, it's likely the Kett would have wiped many of them out due to their never ending quest for perfection and dominance. Where did you get that number, was it in the codex? The Archon states he is embodiment of 1000 species perfected into one. I think many seem to be forgetting that the Heleus Cluster appears to have been a dead cluster before the Jardaan arrived. What I mean by a "dead cluster" is the Jardaan allegedly went to the cluster to terraform planets and restore (or create) them. Even the Angara were created by the Jardaan, implying there were no other species in the Heleus Cluster. It's silly to compare the Heleus Cluster to others because it has been built by artificial means, rather than natural evolution. It should also be noted that the Kett have performed exaltation on over 1000 species in the Andromeda galaxy. Even if there were other species to see, it's likely the Kett would have wiped many of them out due to their never ending quest for perfection and dominance. Was it? Early on it's stated that the remnant structures weren't on their scans and must have been built after they left the Milky Way. This implies that the golden world were golden before the Jardaan arrived. Two things here. For one, we can't really saw how accurate the Initiative's information was, even when they left. Secondly, there is still a 200-300 year gap where those golden worlds could have been destroyed. The point is the remnant tech has been there for at most 400 years and was repairing what seemed to be dead planets.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 6, 2017 19:06:04 GMT
Regarding the Archon's claim of being the result of 1000 species, I'd point out that when reviewing reports on Asari he's dismissive of the pseudo-mystical trappings they attach to their reproductive practices, noting that "There is no place for poetry in biology". So when he says he's made up of 1000 species, I believe he's being literal, if perhaps rounding a bit.
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Post by danishgambit on Apr 6, 2017 19:24:27 GMT
Why on earth do people not use their brains? This complaint is ridiculous. WE ARE DEALING WITH ONLY A SINGLE STAR CLUSTER. The scientific odds of finding even ONE race of intelligent life in a cluster is slim to none, but TWO? Are all of you insane? Do you not comprehend the scientific improbability of what you're asking? Tell me, how many races did we discover in the Hades Gamma Cluster? ZERO. What about the Kelper Verge Cluster? ZERO. What about the Hawking Eta Cluster? ZERO. I could go on all day with the same result. It's absolutely ridiculous that people expect an entire complex galactic society inside of a single star cluster. No one really cares about that... This is a situation where video game logic trumps lore and they need to write something in. It's a new game and we want to see lots of new things. If it was a scientific impossibility that we'd meet any new species at all do you really think that would fly here? No it wouldn't. There would be complaints all over the place regardless. That's why we have sound in space. And besides If we could get a magic ray gun in ME3 this should be no problem.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 6, 2017 19:42:36 GMT
Wait.... you're saying that since gamers are idiots, Bio needs to be idiots too?
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 6, 2017 19:49:07 GMT
Why on earth do people not use their brains? This complaint is ridiculous. WE ARE DEALING WITH ONLY A SINGLE STAR CLUSTER. The scientific odds of finding even ONE race of intelligent life in a cluster is slim to none, but TWO? Are all of you insane? Do you not comprehend the scientific improbability of what you're asking? Tell me, how many races did we discover in the Hades Gamma Cluster? ZERO. What about the Kelper Verge Cluster? ZERO. What about the Hawking Eta Cluster? ZERO. I could go on all day with the same result. It's absolutely ridiculous that people expect an entire complex galactic society inside of a single star cluster. No one really cares about that... This is a situation where video game logic trumps lore and they need to write something in. It's a new game and we want to see lots of new things. If it was a scientific impossibility that we'd meet any new species at all do you really think that would fly here? No it wouldn't. There would be complaints all over the place regardless. That's why we have sound in space. And besides If we could get a magic ray gun in ME3 this should be no problem. So basically, your entire argument is, you want the dumbest, most illogical story possible because it's more "fun"? I'm sorry, but I care about it, and so do many other people, just because you don't want this setting to follow any rules or logical consistency does not mean you speak for everyone. I'll just be blunt, and pray Bioware utterly ignores complaints of this nature, because it's the most asinine arguments I've ever seen. "Fuck any believe ability, logic or sense of immersion, who cares about consistency or trying to fix the magical nonsense ME3 created, just embrace the very thing everyone universally hated, that's what ppl want!"
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