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Post by operatorm1 on Apr 15, 2017 20:46:12 GMT
How was the reload issue fixed? Can we reload cancel now? No but reloading is a little better I think. Also, Isharay is better than the widow but the widow sounds cooler...hard to put them in the game tier... Is there a reason to use the widow if you have the isharay thats not nostalgia? Well they're both single shot, and they both struggle to one-shot a basic raider with a body shot from full hp. The guerilla upgrade is unlikely to be the make-or-break. The damage gap between the two guns isn't nearly large enough to say one can totally deliver a one-shot kill to the body, and the other totally cannot. The reason why I'd put them in the same tier is because: a. Isharay doesn't belong in the same tier as the valiant, and black widow; two semi automatic sniper rifles capable of killing at least two enemies before reloading b. Regardless of slightly higher numbers, in actual practice, the Isharay doesn't accomplish anything more than the Widow; they both have a problem delivering a one-shot kill to the body of a gold-level raider depending on character choice
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 20:48:23 GMT
No but reloading is a little better I think. Also, Isharay is better than the widow but the widow sounds cooler...hard to put them in the game tier... Is there a reason to use the widow if you have the isharay thats not nostalgia? Well they're both single shot, and they both struggle to one-shot a basic raider with a body shot from full hp. The guerilla upgrade is unlikely to be the make-or-break. The damage gap between the two guns isn't nearly large enough to say one can totally deliver a one-shot kill to the body, and the other totally cannot. The reason why I'd put them in the same tier is because: a. Isharay doesn't belong in the same tier as the valiant, and black widow; two semi automatic sniper rifles capable of killing at least two enemies before reloading b. Regardless of slightly higher numbers, in actual practice, the Isharay doesn't accomplish anything more than the Widow; they both have a problem delivering a one-shot kill to the body of a gold-level raider depending on character choice What kit are you sing? I am a SI main with the bonus damage to cloak.
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Post by operatorm1 on Apr 15, 2017 20:52:58 GMT
How was the reload issue fixed? Can we reload cancel now? With a valiant/black widow, you can drop at least 2 targets without reloading. I still need levels on my isharay for a possible one-shot from full HP to the body of a basic raider. It doesn't reload if you move. That's how it is fixed. I doubt reload cancelling is back. The BW doesn't do as much damage as the isharay or widow per shot. And the black widow has 3 shots per reload, and is fully capable of one-shotting gold-level raiders with a bullet to the head. You can kill up to 3 unprotected raiders before reloading with a black widow. 4 if you're using a munitions training character. Isharay can kill one target per reload if it's a headshot. It's not very likely to kill with a body shot depending on kit. If both semi automatic, and single shot sniper rifles are capable of one-shotting with a bullet to the face, and incapable of one-shotting with a body shot, why use a single shot? Why put the single shot on the same tier as the semi automatics?Well they're both single shot, and they both struggle to one-shot a basic raider with a body shot from full hp. The guerilla upgrade is unlikely to be the make-or-break. The damage gap between the two guns isn't nearly large enough to say one can totally deliver a one-shot kill to the body, and the other totally cannot. The reason why I'd put them in the same tier is because: a. Isharay doesn't belong in the same tier as the valiant, and black widow; two semi automatic sniper rifles capable of killing at least two enemies before reloading b. Regardless of slightly higher numbers, in actual practice, the Isharay doesn't accomplish anything more than the Widow; they both have a problem delivering a one-shot kill to the body of a gold-level raider depending on character choice What kit are you sing? I am a SI main with the bonus damage to cloak.
You NEED a damage steroid to do that, which is the problem.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 20:54:58 GMT
It doesn't reload if you move. That's how it is fixed. I doubt reload cancelling is back. The BW doesn't do as much damage as the isharay or widow per shot. And the black widow has 3 shots per reload, and is fully capable of one-shotting gold-level raiders with a bullet to the head. You can kill up to 3 unprotected raiders before reloading with a black widow. 4 if you're using a munitions training character. Isharay can kill one target per reload if it's a headshot. It's not very likely to kill with a body shot depending on kit. If both semi automatic, and single shot sniper rifles are capable of one-shotting with a bullet to the face, and incapable of one-shotting with a body shot, why use a single shot? Why put the single shot on the same tier as the semi automatics?Because you always don't get head shots. Most of my shots are body shots if they are moving around too much due to lag. I can oneshot gold with mine to the body. That's why, you are not going to convince me otherwise.
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Post by operatorm1 on Apr 15, 2017 20:57:35 GMT
And the black widow has 3 shots per reload, and is fully capable of one-shotting gold-level raiders with a bullet to the head. You can kill up to 3 unprotected raiders before reloading with a black widow. 4 if you're using a munitions training character. Isharay can kill one target per reload if it's a headshot. It's not very likely to kill with a body shot depending on kit. If both semi automatic, and single shot sniper rifles are capable of one-shotting with a bullet to the face, and incapable of one-shotting with a body shot, why use a single shot? Why put the single shot on the same tier as the semi automatics?Because you always don't get head shots. Most of my shots are body shots if they are moving around too much due to lag. I can oneshot gold with mine to the body. ... after using cloak, which you have admitted in your previous post. I find NEEDING that damage steroid for a single-shot SR to do that is absurd. It should one-shot mooks in the body without the need of cloak, turbocharge, etc. For most kits, if you don't use a damage-steroid, you won't one-shot without a headshot, at which point you may as well be using a black widow.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 20:59:05 GMT
Because you always don't get head shots. Most of my shots are body shots if they are moving around too much due to lag. I can oneshot gold with mine to the body. After using cloak, which you have admitted in your previous post. I find NEEDING that damage steroid for a single-shot SR to do that is absurd. It should one-shot mooks in the body without the need of cloak, turbocharge, etc. That has always been the niche of the single shot SR in ME. They have always been an infiltrators weapons build around cloak. It was the same way in ME3 MP. I don't care about the other kits.I am an Infiltrator main. It's the only kit I enjoy in ME.
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Post by operatorm1 on Apr 15, 2017 21:01:56 GMT
After using cloak, which you have admitted in your previous post. I find NEEDING that damage steroid for a single-shot SR to do that is absurd. It should one-shot mooks in the body without the need of cloak, turbocharge, etc. That has always been the niche of the single shot SR in ME. They have always been an infiltrators weapons build around cloak. It was the same way in ME3 MP. In ME3, the widow, kishock, and javelin one shot gold-level assault trooper-type mooks in the body without using cloak/adrenaline rush.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 21:03:46 GMT
That has always been the niche of the single shot SR in ME. They have always been an infiltrators weapons build around cloak. It was the same way in ME3 MP. In ME3, the widow, kishock, and javelin one shot gold-level assault mooks in the body without using cloak/adrenaline rush. I don't remember them being able to do that. I'll need to double check on that. Dumping them to tier 3 though means they are jack shit which they are not when used with a proper kit.
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Post by killabkilledb on Apr 15, 2017 21:16:08 GMT
Stil feel the BW is in the same tier as the vanquisher...only because the receiver mod works on it and lots of enemies in this game take cover.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: PawsPause
XBL Gamertag: PawsPause
PSN: PawsPause
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Post by PawsPause on Apr 15, 2017 21:17:31 GMT
Eagle is tier 4 imo, other than that, I think the list is fairly accurate. That gun was a pain in the ass to complete in challenge.
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Post by operatorm1 on Apr 15, 2017 21:20:51 GMT
In ME3, the widow, kishock, and javelin one shot gold-level assault mooks in the body without using cloak/adrenaline rush. I don't remember them being able to do that. I'll need to double check on that. Dumping them to tier 3 though means they are jack shit which they are not when used with a proper kit. They were, and they still do in ME3 on gold, at least with any character with weapon damage passives. As for their MEA tier, well, when; -vanquisher is tier 1 -black widow/valiant are tier 2 -Both black widow, and isharay are incapable of delivering a one-shot kill to the body without damage steroid powers/previous inflicted damage -Both black widow, and isharay are capable of delivering a one-shot kill to the face without damage steroid powers/previous inflicted damage -Black widow can fire 3-4 times before reloading -Isharay can only fire once per reload -All of the aforementioned guns are sniper rifles -Reload canceling no longer exists I'm compelled to say the Isharay belongs on the tier under the black widow, because it definitely lacks any real edge. Now if the black widow were moved up to tier 1, you could possibly say the isharay belongs in tier 2... if it weren't for the valiant which has the capability of killing more than one target before reloading as well, and has a comparatively high fire rate.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 21:26:09 GMT
I don't remember them being able to do that. I'll need to double check on that. Dumping them to tier 3 though means they are jack shit which they are not when used with a proper kit. They were, and they still do in ME3 on gold, at least with any character with weapon damage passives. As for their MEA tier, well, when; -vanquisher is tier 1 -black widow/valiant are tier 2 -Both black widow, and isharay are incapable of delivering a one-shot kill to the body without damage steroid powers/previous inflicted damage -Both black widow, and isharay are capable of delivering a one-shot kill to the face without damage steroid powers/previous inflicted damage -Black widow can fire 3-4 times before reloading -Isharay can only fire once per reload -All of the aforementioned guns are sniper rifles -Reload canceling no longer exists I'm compelled to say the Isharay belongs on the tier under the black widow, because it definitely lacks any real edge. The edge is it's power. It is one of the hardest hitting next to the Lanat. Those 3 shots are meaningless when you can't hit the weak spot. I would rather feel comfortable knowing that I decimated the target then take the off chance I didn't with the BW. Even a missed weak spot with cloak hits harder to the body then the BW fully killing the target.
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Post by gaidax on Apr 15, 2017 21:26:51 GMT
Black Widow is easily better than Isharay, seriously.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: physiolosopher
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Post by physiolosopher on Apr 15, 2017 21:27:07 GMT
Single shot snipers force me to focus deeper to ensure every shot hits the target. I am a bit lazier with bigger clip rifles. Boosters and bonuses also matter in this comparison because weapons don't exist in a vacuum.
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Post by penguinfetish on Apr 15, 2017 21:47:01 GMT
I think ive used the Isharay like once, is it even worth it with no reload cancelling?
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 21:48:28 GMT
I think ive used the Isharay like once, is it even worth it with no reload cancelling? In my personal opinion, yes it is.
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Post by operatorm1 on Apr 15, 2017 21:48:57 GMT
They were, and they still do in ME3 on gold, at least with any character with weapon damage passives. As for their MEA tier, well, when; -vanquisher is tier 1 -black widow/valiant are tier 2 -Both black widow, and isharay are incapable of delivering a one-shot kill to the body without damage steroid powers/previous inflicted damage -Both black widow, and isharay are capable of delivering a one-shot kill to the face without damage steroid powers/previous inflicted damage -Black widow can fire 3-4 times before reloading -Isharay can only fire once per reload -All of the aforementioned guns are sniper rifles -Reload canceling no longer exists I'm compelled to say the Isharay belongs on the tier under the black widow, because it definitely lacks any real edge. The edge is it's power. It is one of the hardest hitting next to the Lanat. Those 3 shots are meaningless when you can't hit the weak spot. I would rather feel comfortable knowing that I decimated the target then take the off chance I didn't with the BW. Even a missed weak spot with cloak hits harder to the body then the BW fully killing the target. I said 'real' edge in actual practice in gold. Its power is still not enough to one-shot gold-level mooks with a body shot without cloak/turbocharge/etc. Saying the black widow's 3 shots are meaningless unless you hit a weak point is laughable. Not to mention putting all 3 of those shots in consecutive raiders' faces by the time an isharay fires once and reloads is a very real possibility, and is several times more rewarding (exactly 3 times more rewarding than the isharay) for a skilled shot, which is the major draw. Just stop trying to compare the isharay to the black widow as if they're on the same level. Currently they are not. If you want proof of this, go make a poll and ask BSN if they would use a black widow, or an isharay on gold. It WILL be one sided.
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Post by operatorm1 on Apr 15, 2017 21:55:12 GMT
I think ive used the Isharay like once, is it even worth it with no reload cancelling? I have an isharay 8, and SR barrel at X. On a +15% passive weapon damage character, no previous damage inflicted, no damage-boosting powers used, gold-level raiders survive a body shot with a decent enough chunk of HP that leads me to believe 2 more ranks, and gurrellia upgrade will not make that a one shot. If you have a high enough vanquisher, or any black widow at all, I wouldn't bother using the isharay. It's a nice interm rifle for a new player not lucky enough to get their hands on a vanquisher early (and you really don't want to be stuck with a viper even going into silver).
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 21:56:30 GMT
The edge is it's power. It is one of the hardest hitting next to the Lanat. Those 3 shots are meaningless when you can't hit the weak spot. I would rather feel comfortable knowing that I decimated the target then take the off chance I didn't with the BW. Even a missed weak spot with cloak hits harder to the body then the BW fully killing the target. I said 'real' edge in actual practice in gold. Its power is still not enough to one-shot gold-level mooks with a body shot without cloak/turbocharge/etc. Saying the black widow's 3 shots are meaningless unless you hit a weak point is laughable. Not to mention putting all 3 of those shots in consecutive raiders' faces by the time an isharay fires once and reloads is a very real possibility, and is several times more rewarding (exactly 3 times more rewarding than the isharay) for a skilled shot, which is the major draw. Just stop trying to compare the isharay to the black widow as if they're on the same level. Currently they are not. If you want proof of this, go make a poll and ask BSN if they would use a black widow, or an isharay on gold. It WILL be one sided. Listen here. You do not order me or tell me what to do. I will continue comparing them whether you like it or not. I have dealt with enough assholes like you that I have no patience for people ordering me around.
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Post by nucleartech76 on Apr 15, 2017 21:59:31 GMT
Looked alright on Bronze..... The Sweeper X TM is un-f**king-stoppable on gold Lol. Five seconds to kill a basic raider.
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Post by gaidax on Apr 15, 2017 22:00:11 GMT
I said 'real' edge in actual practice in gold. Its power is still not enough to one-shot gold-level mooks with a body shot without cloak/turbocharge/etc. Saying the black widow's 3 shots are meaningless unless you hit a weak point is laughable. Not to mention putting all 3 of those shots in consecutive raiders' faces by the time an isharay fires once and reloads is a very real possibility, and is several times more rewarding (exactly 3 times more rewarding than the isharay) for a skilled shot, which is the major draw. Just stop trying to compare the isharay to the black widow as if they're on the same level. Currently they are not. If you want proof of this, go make a poll and ask BSN if they would use a black widow, or an isharay on gold. It WILL be one sided. Listen here. You do not order me or tell me what to do. I will continue comparing them whether you like it or not. I have dealt with enough assholes like you that I have no patience for people ordering me around. He's right, you're wrong. You can do whatever you like, does not make your right though.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 22:02:07 GMT
Listen here. You do not order me or tell me what to do. I will continue comparing them whether you like it or not. I have dealt with enough assholes like you that I have no patience for people ordering me around. He's right, you're wrong. You can do whatever you like, does not make your right though. I am right because I say I am right.
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Post by operatorm1 on Apr 15, 2017 22:07:13 GMT
I said 'real' edge in actual practice in gold. Its power is still not enough to one-shot gold-level mooks with a body shot without cloak/turbocharge/etc. Saying the black widow's 3 shots are meaningless unless you hit a weak point is laughable. Not to mention putting all 3 of those shots in consecutive raiders' faces by the time an isharay fires once and reloads is a very real possibility, and is several times more rewarding (exactly 3 times more rewarding than the isharay) for a skilled shot, which is the major draw. Just stop trying to compare the isharay to the black widow as if they're on the same level. Currently they are not. If you want proof of this, go make a poll and ask BSN if they would use a black widow, or an isharay on gold. It WILL be one sided. Listen here. You do not order me or tell me what to do. I will continue comparing them whether you like it or not. I have dealt with enough assholes like you that I have no patience for people ordering me around. Wow, tooooooooooouchy~ How about you actually address the points rather than get sensitive? I care about facts right now. Not your feelings. You can keep comparing them, and the results will stay the same; the lack of reasons to use the isharay over the black widow. Do you want to make this poll, or do I have to? It's a very easy way to validate (or completely counter) your point. If BSN is at least split on it, then you'd probably be right; the isharay may belong on the same tier as the black widow. Otherwise, if the overwhelming majority of players would rather use the black widow given the choice, then it makes little sense for them to be on the same tier. Hell, I'm advocating for a damage buff, and reload speed increase to help your favorite sniper rifle.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 22:11:16 GMT
Listen here. You do not order me or tell me what to do. I will continue comparing them whether you like it or not. I have dealt with enough assholes like you that I have no patience for people ordering me around. Wow, tooooooooooouchy~ How about you actually address the points rather than get sensitive? I care about facts right now. Not your feelings. You can keep comparing them, and the results will stay the same; the lack of reasons to use the isharay over the black widow. Do you want to make this poll, or do I have to? It's a very easy way to validate (or completely counter) your point. If BSN is at least split on it, then you'd probably be right; the isharay may belong on the same tier as the black widow. Not sensitive. Wrathful. You hit a trigger I received in the military. I am stating facts. When using an infiltrator, the Isharay is a very good gun. Just because you don't like that in your statements doesn't make it less true. It is one of the hardest hitting SR in the game. It is not tier 3 trash because it is still viable even if it is with an infiltrator. I also don't give a shit about the polls. I know what I believe to be true, and I am sticking with it. I am not saying it doesn't need some work, but moving it to tier 3 is a no no.
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Post by operatorm1 on Apr 15, 2017 22:16:07 GMT
Wow, tooooooooooouchy~ How about you actually address the points rather than get sensitive? I care about facts right now. Not your feelings. You can keep comparing them, and the results will stay the same; the lack of reasons to use the isharay over the black widow. Do you want to make this poll, or do I have to? It's a very easy way to validate (or completely counter) your point. If BSN is at least split on it, then you'd probably be right; the isharay may belong on the same tier as the black widow. Not sensitive. Wrathful. You hit a trigger I received in the military. I am stating facts. When using an infiltrator, the Isharay is a very good gun. Just because you don't like that in your statements doesn't make it less true. It is one of the hardest hitting SR in the game. It is not tier 3 trash because it is still viable even if it is with an infiltrator. I also don't give a shit about the polls. I know what I believe to be true, and I am sticking with it. I am not saying it doesn't need some work, but moving it to tier 3 is a no no. No one here said tier 3 is trash besides you. Just so you know. Also, I didn't say isharay is a bad gun. It's just not as good as the other sniper rifles in tier 2 in practice. The lack of reload canceling seriously hurts.
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