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Post by phoray on Feb 23, 2018 20:30:22 GMT
Wait, wait, wait, does it mean he's romancing Hawke in DA2, or is he romancing himself?! Unless Hawke romances someone else, of course.Shhh... I'm Justice. ooooooooooo this is how the threesome works, I see...
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Post by davesin on Feb 23, 2018 20:32:53 GMT
Wait, wait, wait, does it mean he's romancing Hawke in DA2, or is he romancing himself?! Unless Hawke romances someone else, of course.Shhh... I'm Justice. And now all makes sense. And apparently, there's connection to Internet in Fade. Good to know!
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 23, 2018 20:34:50 GMT
This simply not true. In Origins and DA2 every mage children were a gift. The clans send the mage children to another chan, what doesn't have ENOUGH mage children... In the Inquisition, from nowhere, appeared this illogical "three-mage"-bullshit... ...So what you are saying is that, much like qunari horns, it was added to the canon later? Ok then. Whatever you want, man.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 23, 2018 20:49:12 GMT
This simply not true. In Origins and DA2 every mage children were a gift. The clans send the mage children to another chan, what doesn't have ENOUGH mage children... In the Inquisition, from nowhere, appeared this illogical "three-mage"-bullshit... ...So what you are saying is that, much like qunari horns, it was added to the canon later? Ok then. Whatever you want, man. Appearance problem. Just as elves appearance changed (believe me: I was shocked, when I shaw Zevran in DA2...) – and Isabela... But this lore change is illogical: contradicts everything we have known so far about the elves.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 23, 2018 20:54:56 GMT
Look man, I have no interest in arguing the semantics of what is essentially the exact same thing with you. Whether you like it or not, Dalish clans tend to have two mages. Be it from fear of Templar's, fear of possession, or not enough mages to go around. And none of this changes my original point that Keeper and their First have enough magical skill to qualify for the magic equivalent of a doctorate.
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Post by Raga on Feb 23, 2018 20:57:33 GMT
Doesn't seem like the best example considering he ran out and did precisely what the Circle was trying to prevent him from doing: blood magic, murder, etc. And it's only after he does that and realizes "oh, wait, this *sucks*" that he wants to undo it and make it right. So, sure, there is some logic in teaching a child not to stick his hand in fires by letting him stick his hand in fires, but I would hardly call someone "immature" because they just believed their parents when they said "don't stick your hand in fires" and never got burned in the first place. You can exercise maturity in two ways: by learning from mistakes and also by recognizing that something is stupid before the fact and just *not* doing it.
*Edit* Oops sorry, quoted wrong post. Meant to quote this:
"*thinks of Jowan* Umm... love the guy, but he doesn't really grow up until he escapes the Circle. In that way, he finds that courage within,defending peasants in the countryside from Darkspawn! or giving himself over to certain tranquility and death to right his own wrong. but it would never have happened in the circle"
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Post by Catilina on Feb 23, 2018 21:04:34 GMT
Look man, I have no interest in arguing the semantics of what is essentially the exact same thing with you. Whether you like it or not, Dalish clans tend to have two mages. Be it from fear of Templar's, fear of possession, or not enough mages to go around. And none of this changes my original point that Keeper and their First have enough magical skill to qualify for the magic equivalent of a doctorate. Two is the minimum. What happens if the Keeper dies? This change is illogical in many viewpoints. To kill the "unnecessary" kids more logical, safe and less torture. (This is just a stupid "Snow White" story.)
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Post by phoray on Feb 23, 2018 21:10:00 GMT
he ran out and did precisely what the Circle was trying to prevent him from doing: blood magic, I would claim 30-50% of the mages in the Circle were secretly performing Blood Magic under Uldred's hidden supervision. Jowan got invited to that club, but that Club was going at it a while before it all came to a head. I think Jowan's Tranquilization was probably going to be the first of many under Irwin and Gregoir, because I think they finally caught wind of what wsa going on. Once Tranquil, Jowan would have named everyone in the club. And then he escaped with the blood magic he'd been taught from uldred. And then Loghain came along and ordered him to perform some more blood magic on his behalf.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 23, 2018 21:12:55 GMT
Two is the minimum. What happens if the Keeper dies? This change is illogical in many viewpoints. To kill the "unnecessary" kids more logical, safe and less torture. First off, This was also a thing in Dragon Age 2 (as stated by Merrill), and possibly even Dragon Age Origins. Second, how the handle extra mages differs from clan to clan. The Dalish Inquisitors clan will try to find another clan for the mage to serve in. Mineve's clan sent her away on her own. Just like how some dalish clans just want to be left alone, and some dalish clans are little more than bandits. Third, I said "Tends to have" meaning it is a guideline, not a rule. Some clans apparently have a "Keepers Second", however there are so few mages to begin with, this is rare.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 23, 2018 21:22:04 GMT
Two is the minimum. What happens if the Keeper dies? This change is illogical in many viewpoints. To kill the "unnecessary" kids more logical, safe and less torture. First off, This was also a thing in Dragon Age 2 (as stated by Merrill), and possibly even Dragon Age Origins. Second, how the handle extra mages differs from clan to clan. The Dalish Inquisitors clan will try to find another clan for the mage to serve in. Mineve's clan sent her away on her own. Just like how some dalish clans just want to be left alone, and some dalish clans are little more than bandits. Third, I said "Tends to have" meaning it is a guideline, not a rule. Some clans apparently have a "Keepers Second", however there are so few mages to begin with, this is rare. Yes, the mages are very rare ~1%? – perhaps among the elves a bit more, this is why Minaeve's and Dalish's story absolutely unbelievable. And think about it: not every mage is talented (Minaeve for example not, but Dalish probably at least mediocre, but rather good in magic). To send away a mage child whose magic is just manifested, would very illogical: they not even know, the child talented or not. Perhaps they kill the most talented child ever...
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Post by phoray on Feb 23, 2018 21:22:26 GMT
Third, I said "Tends to have" meaning it is a guideline, not a rule. Some clans apparently have a "Keepers Second", however there are so few mages to begin with, this is rare. Well, which is it? They either have too many so they all have to constantly deal with killing, abandoning, or trading, or too few so they have to be cherished and kept. *more annoyed at lore discrepencies than anything pointed at you.
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Post by pavellaning on Feb 23, 2018 21:24:47 GMT
I love Loghain Mac Tir.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 23, 2018 21:28:30 GMT
I think I've yet to see a Dalish Abomination, or heard of a Rivaini version. We only saw one? in the Avaar DLC? I think making a mage think they've sinned by birth, locking them up all together in places that inevitably have thinner veils, and then abusing them is what causes abominations primarily. I agree. When I said boarding school I was including Tevinter-style Circles. Dorian went through quite a few of them in his youth so I assumed he lived there (unless his family had estates in each major city, which is entirely possible given their wealth....).
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 23, 2018 21:28:42 GMT
Well, which is it? They either have too many so they all have to constantly deal with killing, abandoning, or trading, or too few so they have to be cherished and kept. *more annoyed at lore discrepencies than anything pointed at you. It can be both? Magic apparently has almost nothing to do with genetics. And elves seem to have less to do with genetics than anyone. There's no reason why a particular clan couldn't have 4 mages in a year, while another clan hasn't seen a mage child in 30 years.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 23, 2018 21:29:31 GMT
Third, I said "Tends to have" meaning it is a guideline, not a rule. Some clans apparently have a "Keepers Second", however there are so few mages to begin with, this is rare. Well, which is it? They either have too many so they all have to constantly deal with killing, abandoning, or trading, or too few so they have to be cherished and kept. *more annoyed at lore discrepencies than anything pointed at you. Wouldn't it be random depending on how many mage children showed up in a particular generation of a particular clan?
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 23, 2018 21:35:13 GMT
Easiar to take the demon herself and be killed then for her to have to kill Merril. There is nothing other than confused forced drama Mom-crazy to explain what Marethari did. She was probably a stronger mage than Merril and put her whole clan at risk in so many ways. She tried to kill Merril herself once posessed anyway. She is just super dumb, her intelligence so clouded by emotional based illogical decisions. And Merril wasn't even her own blood child, the whole thing was weird. That was my point, it was an emotional illogical decision that was possibly driven cus she didn't want to have to put down Merril who she loved. I don't think it matters that she isn't related to Merril? She had trained Merril and was the only one in the whole clan that got on with Merril, the teacher/apprentice relationship in the Dalish seems very close, they also don't appear to get quite as relationshippy with the rest of the clan, there seems to be a bit of a barrier there. Marethari is basically a mother to Merril, blood or no.
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Post by phoray on Feb 23, 2018 21:36:04 GMT
It just seems statistically unlikely. We're already dealing with the 1%. Then even if 4 children born in the same year become mages, they are so totally not getting their magic all at once. Wynne got hers at 8. Anders got his at something absurdly late, like 12. There is an Arlathvhen every 10 years, it is extremely easy to wait. How is 2 mages super calm and relaxing and everything golden only to have one additional mage child you may have to carry to the next Arlathvhen a few years throw everything into Murdering Survival Instinct mode?
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Post by phoray on Feb 23, 2018 21:38:37 GMT
rras1994I just find it hard to believe that 5+ years in, she came to that conclusion. She had so much time to think about things that quick illogical decisions make no sense. It would have made sense if she'd done it as soon as Merril had talked to the demon the first time, but years and years of performing blood magic is when she finally has a crazy chicken head cut off moment?
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 23, 2018 21:47:58 GMT
rras1994 I just find it hard to believe that 5+ years in, she came to that conclusion. She had so much time to think about things that quick illogical decisions make no sense. It would have made sense if she'd done it as soon as Merril had talked to the demon the first time, but years and years of performing blood magic is when she finally has a crazy chicken head cut off moment? She loved Merril. That explains it. And we aren't talking just blood magic but dealing with a demon. She became an abomination to be killed, so that Merril wouldn't. She basically screwed over her entire clan for Merril. Not a logical decision, but emotional attachments cloud your decision making. And can do for numerous years.
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Post by phoray on Feb 23, 2018 21:58:31 GMT
I suppose my Unpopular opinion then is that Marethari's decision makes as much sense as Orsino going Harvester.
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Raga
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Post by Raga on Feb 23, 2018 22:07:17 GMT
Boo!!!! *throws rotten produce*
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 22:08:37 GMT
If only Alistair didn't run away...
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TheodoricFriede
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 23, 2018 22:13:44 GMT
I suppose my Unpopular opinion then is that Marethari's decision makes as much sense as Orsino going Harvester. For the record I agree with this. Especially considering later revelations in the series. (albeit from a semi-unreliable source.)
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Post by Raga on Feb 23, 2018 22:17:27 GMT
I think the takeaway the devs are going for is that the Dalish don't have magical answers to all the problems with magic either and their system also isn't perfect, which is fair enough.
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Post by Templar Knight on Feb 23, 2018 23:30:31 GMT
If only Alistair didn't run away... I was just talking to Quartermaster Threnn at Skyhold in my "Loghain is alive" worldstate. Apparently Loghain not only recognized her, but remembered her name. Threnn lauded him to me as the greatest commander in the world.
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