formerfiend
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Post by formerfiend on May 15, 2017 8:54:31 GMT
I will say that I hated the way they rearranged the magic abilities in Inquisition.
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Post by mmoblitz on May 22, 2017 18:31:32 GMT
Put DA2 system in place and I would be happy. I don't want classless. While it solves some problems of the class system it brings new ones to the classless. Just a matter of preference.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 5, 2018 8:03:18 GMT
Put DA2 system in place and I would be happy. I don't want classless. While it solves some problems of the class system it brings new ones to the classless. Just a matter of preference. I don't see why not have a classless system to create your own build as you see fit. That's one of the flaws of Dragon Age is creativity and versatility, and that's something BioWare should learn from.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 5, 2018 8:14:07 GMT
For those RPGs where you're primarily a solo act (ES/Witcher/KoA/etc.), I prefer having a classless system. But for party-based games, I like having discrete classes and individuals filling specific roles. I prefer a lone wolf gameplay like Skyrim with the option to travel with or without companions, rather than being forced with companions. I prefer to make my own choices in gameplay and not have to be forced to.
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Post by river82 on Feb 5, 2018 10:11:30 GMT
For those RPGs where you're primarily a solo act (ES/Witcher/KoA/etc.), I prefer having a classless system. But for party-based games, I like having discrete classes and individuals filling specific roles. I prefer a lone wolf gameplay like Skyrim with the option to travel with or without companions, rather than being forced with companions. I prefer to make my own choices in gameplay and not have to be forced to. Bioware's roots are in strategic combat. With strategic combat it's better to be party based, like XCOM. That being said with modern Bioware's deviation toward actiony combat, you could make an argument for no longer needing a party.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 5, 2018 10:22:23 GMT
I can't think of anything I want less, which means it will almost assuredly be the case.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 5, 2018 10:28:24 GMT
I prefer a lone wolf gameplay like Skyrim with the option to travel with or without companions, rather than being forced with companions. I prefer to make my own choices in gameplay and not have to be forced to. Bioware's roots are in strategic combat. With strategic combat it's better to be party based, like XCOM. That being said with modern Bioware's deviation toward actiony combat, you could make an argument for no longer needing a party. And that's why Dragon Age will lose substance by using the same repetitive designs and expect different results and you get games like Witcher out played Dragon Age because of versatility in gameplay and choices. Which is the whole point of RPG games, and the problem with BioWare is that they're stagnant and inflexible that got them in shambles. I prefer they try to do something different for once and not doing the same thing over and over again.
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mmoblitz
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Post by mmoblitz on Feb 5, 2018 10:58:03 GMT
Bioware's roots are in strategic combat. With strategic combat it's better to be party based, like XCOM. That being said with modern Bioware's deviation toward actiony combat, you could make an argument for no longer needing a party. And that's why Dragon Age will lose substance by using the same repetitive designs and expect different results and you get games like Witcher out played Dragon Age because of versatility in gameplay and choices. Which is the whole point of RPG games, and the problem with BioWare is that they're stagnant and inflexible that got them in shambles. I prefer they try to do something different for once and not doing the same thing over and over again. They did try something different with the ME series (MEA) and I think we all know how that turned out. I wouldn't mind if they made companions optional so if you don't like them, MEA and DAI come to mind, you don't have to bring them along. If may mean you lose a chunk of game play, but that would be the players choice.
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Post by copper on Feb 5, 2018 14:20:42 GMT
For party based games like Dragon Age I prefer that we keep our current classes.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Feb 5, 2018 14:59:46 GMT
Hmm, I don't think we're on the same page here, and I apologize if I wasn't being as clear as I could have been. Let me see if I can do a better job of explaining myself: While I liked what you said about the PC being a mage canonically in the way Shepard and Ryder are biotic, even if those abilities don't manifest, I don't agree with that interpretation here. In this suggested system (which maybe I could have done better to call a soft class system, rather than utterly classless), you'd pick from the three classes -- but the only time in which you're a mage is if you actually pick mage. If you pick warrior or rogue, you're not a mage whose powers haven't manifested -- you're straight up not a mage. If you pick mage, then and only then are you going to get dialogue options about being a mage, mana, any access at all to the magic trees, or any other gameplay changes that brings. A mage is an actual thing you can be in Dragon Age, but a rogue isn't -- that's a meaningless state of being in the setting (not the gameplay, obviously). Sera wasn't born a rogue, but Dorian was born a mage. So, in this system, if you pick to play as a dwarf, you can't pick mage. That's an inherent part of the setting. But here it's actually more open than what Dragon Age currently offers: if I pick a dwarf in Inquisition, I can't pick mage, but I still have to pick rogue or warrior -- and when I do, I am stuck with that. My rogue dwarf can never pick up a shield. In this soft class system, dwarves get more options than ever before (and so does anybody who picks warrior or rogue). Now, again, the disparity this creates is that anybody who picks rogue or warrior -- i.e., doesn't pick mage -- is exactly the same as the dwarf -- i.e., not a mage, at all. So the only players who are going to have access to all three class groups are players who pick mage -- BUT the point there is that while they've got far more power potential, it comes at a huge cost: they're a mage, in Thedas, which is not, traditionally, an entirely desirable position. Because of the hard class system, however, the gameplay has never borne that out, even though the setting says mages should face much more danger. They get on just fine (incidentally, they're also not really any more powerful than the other classes, which the setting also says isn't true). I don't think a soft class system would threaten the inclusion of dwarves as a playable race for two reasons: first, it's no different than what we have now, in regards to the setting -- dwarves can never be mages anyway. And two, it hasn't stopped them twice before (to be fair, it was a little iffy in Inquisition, but fan opinion has been made pretty clear at this point). Issue being that I don't think there's a way to balance that. I can't imagine a way that you make "being a mage" such a disadvantage that anyone considers it an even trade to give up a third of potential character progression to not have to deal with it while still keeping "being a mage" fun enough to play. The challenges that mage characters face that others don't are either going to be so tedious as to make playing a mage not worth it or so easily overcome as to not be considered obstacles at all. On the social side of things it, what? Takes away a few opportunities at persuasion checks? Makes them more difficult? Ignoring the likely reality that the game will probably be taking place in Tevinter where being a mage is more desirable than not - even if it isn't the free pass to high social status that a lot of people on the BSN think it is - that raises the question as to how people would know you're a mage if you hypothetically built your character to focus more on warrior/rogue things and only have a few token magical abilities. On the other side of things I guess you could put in a mechanic where if you play a mage demons regularly try to tempt/possess you and you have to fend them off but again, that's either going to be tedious or annoying, or it'll be desirable as it'll present more opportunities for character interaction and potential experience gain for quicker leveling. So, yeah. I don't see how you make it an even trade off. Previous Dragon age games pretty much already have a way of balancing out a two class system of Mage and Non-Mage though? In the form of limiting combat and story options through attribute points and backgrounds/origins. (Non-mage is an awkard name, I'll call it Martial) In dao you didn't just need the previous talents on a tree to buy the next - you also needed an attribute to be at a certain level to unlock it. Attributes then also affected how effective your attacks and talents were. A mage needed Magic attribute to learn spells and make those spells more effective. But if they're spending points in Magic and Willpower then they're not spending them in Dexterity or Strength. If they put attribute points evenly to faciltate say a warrior/mage then they won't have high enough attributes for either to unlock the high level abilities in the warrior and mage trees. Even more so then a rogue/warrior since both dex and strength are useful to both those classes, so whilst the amount of talent points would still limit a Rogue/Warrior from getting to the top of the trees, they'd be able to go further up then a warrior/mage. Of course you could take the Mage class and then not level the Magic attribute, ignore/barely touch the trees, but since that means not having access to about a third of the options anyway - at that point your more selecting it for the sake of being a mage/story reasons. Which bring me to backgrounds. In DAO mages had access to 1/6 origns. In DAI 3/7 backgrounds. I doubt DA4 would have as much background content as origins, but I'd guess it to have more then inquisition since the backgrounds would presumably be in the design from the start instead of added in last minute. So only ever picking the Mage class over the Martial class would limit you from backgrounds and the story content and roleplaying value that came with them. I think the combat and story limitations balance them out. I wouldn't want a classless system like MEA for Dragon Age. But a soft two class system something like if you unlocked all the nonmage trees for rogues and warriors in DAO and unlock all the trees for mages - with all that being limited by number of talent points and attribute points then I'd be cool with it. Of course I'd also be perfectly happy if they kept the 3 class system and just took away class restricitions on weapons and armour and brought back weapon switching. I just think the former is actually possible.
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ewigDunkelheit
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Feb 5, 2018 16:13:09 GMT
I just want to chime in and echo many of the posts about returning the custom attributes and unrestricted equipment that we saw in Origins. I have never once heard a compelling reason for why future entries in the Dragon Age series have become more restrictive and limiting than the initial offering. I would have expected them to expand the nuances of the system, instead of tearing pieces off and throwing them away.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 5, 2018 16:49:34 GMT
And that's why Dragon Age will lose substance by using the same repetitive designs and expect different results and you get games like Witcher out played Dragon Age because of versatility in gameplay and choices. Which is the whole point of RPG games, and the problem with BioWare is that they're stagnant and inflexible that got them in shambles. I prefer they try to do something different for once and not doing the same thing over and over again. They did try something different with the ME series (MEA) and I think we all know how that turned out. I wouldn't mind if they made companions optional so if you don't like them, MEA and DAI come to mind, you don't have to bring them along. If may mean you lose a chunk of game play, but that would be the players choice. That's because they gave it to rookies and not the veterans, and they have poor leadership, indecisiveness, politics, and a whole lot of crap going on that affected the game. And that's still no excuse of making sub par games and being repetitive and expected positive results.
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M A Y A N F O R E S T
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Post by M A Y A N F O R E S T on Feb 5, 2018 22:44:09 GMT
I've always been more inclined to think Skyrim when the idea of classless RPG's come up, thanks. Honestly I don't think it's a bad idea - just because one is born with innate magical talent doesn't mean they put any effort into training and developing that magical talent and just because someone has innate magical talent doesn't mean they can't learn to swing a sword or shoot a bow. But the big hurtle to this is that dwarves can't be mages except through extraordinary circumstance. And I'm very much of the opinion that I do not want them to remove race options from the game again and adding in the contrived explanation for how a dwarf PC can use magic is clunky when done along side three other PC options that don't require it. I love Skyrim!
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 6, 2018 5:24:39 GMT
I prefer the current class system. It also adds replay value. Just hope we could have more active abilities and specializations to choose from. I've always disliked the replay value notion for a class system that is arbitrarily limiting. If the game isn't good enough to replay on its own, doing so only because you were locked out of be able to *hold a dagger* for no real reason is contrived. I've found the class system to be increasingly divorced from the setting -- like, it divides lore and gameplay even further to arbitrarily make it so that somebody can't pick up a bow or a sword. Functionally, the system I described, and others like it, don't even change the "replay value" in any meaningful way -- if you spread yourself across all the different skill trees, you're not going to unlock the top ends of any specific ones -- it's not like you'll even be risking having the same build every tingle playthrough, either. This just gives you a choice, instead of being stuck with one thing the whole game for no real reason. Hopefully that response doesn't sound hostile, because I certainly don't mean it that way -- I just think that if the best reason to have a class system in a game (where the setting doesn't delineate any such class differences re: rogue or warrior, as in, there really are only mages and non-mages, at the basic level) isn't because it makes the game better but because it makes you have to replay again... That sucks. Branching plot paths, different romances, different endings -- I'm gonsta replay for those reasons, not because my mage couldn't figure out how to hit things with a sword. I couldn't agree more, and I also agree that Dragon Age should have a classless system to create your own build and customize your character's abilities.
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Post by phoray on Feb 6, 2018 5:49:28 GMT
I don't see why not have a classless system to create your own build as you see fit. That's one of the flaws of Dragon Age is creativity and versatility, and that's something BioWare should learn from. Maybe if it was the battle we were playing for. *nobody is playing Dragon age for it's battle mechanics* But as it stands, class has so much lore attached that I'd absolutely abhor any system that gave everyone magic. the closest they got, and should ever get, is what they did with the Inquisitor with the Mark in their hand. I accepted it only because it was lore/story/dialogue supported.
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Post by naughtynomad on Feb 6, 2018 11:27:03 GMT
Did you say "CLASSLESS?!?!" Sounds like a BSN SJW BUZZWORD to me bro!
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 7, 2018 5:35:09 GMT
I don't see why not have a classless system to create your own build as you see fit. That's one of the flaws of Dragon Age is creativity and versatility, and that's something BioWare should learn from. Maybe if it was the battle we were playing for. *nobody is playing Dragon age for it's battle mechanics* But as it stands, class has so much lore attached that I'd absolutely abhor any system that gave everyone magic. the closest they got, and should ever get, is what they did with the Inquisitor with the Mark in their hand. I accepted it only because it was lore/story/dialogue supported. And that's why Dragon Age will be very boring because of flimsy excuses of limitations of so called lore and dialogue. Witcher has done it. Skyrim has done it. There is absolutely no excuses.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 7, 2018 13:54:31 GMT
Maybe if it was the battle we were playing for. *nobody is playing Dragon age for it's battle mechanics* But as it stands, class has so much lore attached that I'd absolutely abhor any system that gave everyone magic. the closest they got, and should ever get, is what they did with the Inquisitor with the Mark in their hand. I accepted it only because it was lore/story/dialogue supported. And that's why Dragon Age will be very boring because of flimsy excuses of limitations of so called lore and dialogue. Witcher has done it. Skyrim has done it. There is absolutely no excuses. Well those are different universes with different rules to be fair DA even back in DAO has defined rules where each character plays a certain role. They can' t change those rules without a significant redesign of the universe and explanation. Alsio tbh I don't think I'd feel all that comfortable with them doing so.
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Post by phoray on Feb 7, 2018 17:03:55 GMT
flimsy excuses of limitations of so called lore and dialogue. *blinks* you mean, you don't LIKE a world that reacts to who and what you are? why are you playing Dragon Age? You mean a world built around a very specific character and his species/class of doing things? from the get go, he could do it all but he was always meant to be a jack of all trades. For example, his magic (signs) are no where near as powerful as an actual mage/witch whatever they call them. He is built from day one to be a swordsman with limited magical ability with the longevity to learn a variety of skills, such as bomb making and being able to throw a dagger straight. He's like a hundred years old. This situation can not be applied to a character in dragon age outside of Solas and other long lived ancient elves who would have the time to learn these other skills with any valid usefulness. Normal lived people have time to be good at one thing. And the mages of Dragon Age are not restricted to piddly Signs. They can throw fireballs. Honestly, I don't know as much about SKyrim, but it's #1 goal is to be as unrestrictive as possible in everyway. It's a sandbox. Which means you can do and be anything, but at a severe cost of actual story and deep relationships. And in Skyrim, you also had to be of special dragon blood to be able to do and be everything, so I'm not een sure what you're wanting would extend outside "the special chosen one" story lines. Which we get a lot of in DA, don't get me wrong, but a recurring theme is that most of our protaganists are just normal people fine with having their normal lives. This was interupted and they had to deal with it. I just want to say, again though, because of my intense dislike of Skyrim (and I devoted 120 to this game) is that it is a game where you can do and be anything at the expense of story.I don't want that in my dragon age world.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 7, 2018 17:37:28 GMT
flimsy excuses of limitations of so called lore and dialogue. *blinks* you mean, you don't LIKE a world that reacts to who and what you are? why are you playing Dragon Age? You mean a world built around a very specific character and his species/class of doing things? from the get go, he could do it all but he was always meant to be a jack of all trades. For example, his magic (signs) are no where near as powerful as an actual mage/witch whatever they call them. He is built from day one to be a swordsman with limited magical ability with the longevity to learn a variety of skills, such as bomb making and being able to throw a dagger straight. He's like a hundred years old. This situation can not be applied to a character in dragon age outside of Solas and other long lived ancient elves who would have the time to learn these other skills with any valid usefulness. Normal lived people have time to be good at one thing. And the mages of Dragon Age are not restricted to piddly Signs. They can throw fireballs. Honestly, I don't know as much about SKyrim, but it's #1 goal is to be as unrestrictive as possible in everyway. It's a sandbox. Which means you can do and be anything, but at a severe cost of actual story and deep relationships. And in Skyrim, you also had to be of special dragon blood to be able to do and be everything, so I'm not een sure what you're wanting would extend outside "the special chosen one" story lines. Which we get a lot of in DA, don't get me wrong, but a recurring theme is that most of our protaganists are just normal people fine with having their normal lives. This was interupted and they had to deal with it.
I just want to say, again though, because of my intense dislike of Skyrim (and I devoted 120 to this game) is that it is a game where you can do and be anything at the expense of story.I don't want that in my dragon age world. Yeah I agree the protags we tend to play in DA tend to be ordinary people who just ended up being in the wrong place at the wrong time and because of that having to be the one to save the day because of it one way or another. Even the warden regardless of what origin you choose at the start of DAO has this. Because that whole opening origin level is pretty much that whole problem going down that you need to resolve at some point later in the game.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Feb 7, 2018 18:39:53 GMT
People talk about how Skyrim got rid of classes, but classes in the Elder Scrolls were always kind of crap and any character could still use magic, combat skills or stealth regardless of class. Classes in Dragon Age are both better designed and far more distinct in terms of gameplay.
As far as I'm concerned, getting rid of classes would be an error of massive proportions.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 7, 2018 21:39:42 GMT
And that's why Dragon Age will be very boring because of flimsy excuses of limitations of so called lore and dialogue. Witcher has done it. Skyrim has done it. There is absolutely no excuses. Well those are different universes with different rules to be fair DA even back in DAO has defined rules where each character plays a certain role. They can' t change those rules without a significant redesign of the universe and explanation. Alsio tbh I don't think I'd feel all that comfortable with them doing so.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 7, 2018 21:41:55 GMT
Well those are different universes with different rules to be fair DA even back in DAO has defined rules where each character plays a certain role. They can' t change those rules without a significant redesign of the universe and explanation. Alsio tbh I don't think I'd feel all that comfortable with them doing so. It's not an excuse it's the way the world was designed.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 7, 2018 22:09:36 GMT
It's not an excuse it's the way the world was designed. That's still no excuse, and they could still have a hybrid system without compromising the lore of the game. And you could create your character's abilities however you want just like you can be an elf, human, or Qunari.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 7, 2018 23:07:37 GMT
It's not an excuse it's the way the world was designed. That's still no excuse, and they could still have a hybrid system without compromising the lore of the game. And you could create your character's abilities however you want just like you can be an elf, human, or Qunari. <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.97999999999999" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.98px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 0px; top: 0px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_95263544"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.97999999999999" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.98px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1134px; top: -209px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_89454836"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.97999999999999" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.98px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 10px; top: -15px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_70986148"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.97999999999999" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.98px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1134px; top: -15px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_98007651"></iframe> If they could work it into the lore perhaps but I don't see a way that they can atm given the way they've designed it.
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