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Post by cloud9 on Feb 8, 2018 1:24:00 GMT
If racial selection was limited to human and/or elf and/or qunari, then there's no real contradiction with the lore with a classless system; the PC is a mage, period. It's just a matter of whether or not they put any effort into developing and utilizing their magic. Having magic doesn't mean you've ever learned to throw a spell. It's not dissimilar to the mass effect series; Shepard and the Ryder Twins are biotic from the word go. It's just if you pick a non-biotic class with Shepard - or if you start with a non-biotic specialization with Ryder, they simply haven't trained their latent biotic powers. I do still see the biggest problem being that dwarves are the odd ones out because short being exposed to Titans, however that works - I haven't played the Descent yet - they can't use magic, period, so you'd be blocking off a third of potential progression for them. And, again, I don't want to take dwarves out of the running for playability. Honestly I don't think it'd really be a problem at all. Dwarf players have been locked out of magic so far -- it wouldn't be any different here. If anything, dwarves just get more options this way. It's an intrinsic part of the setting, so it's not like it would come as a surprise. I really see it as a simple choice in the beginning: do you possess magic, or don't you? And that is way more important a question to the overall setting as well, so for once gameplay could tie in to the setting in a far more meaningful way. And look at Sandal. He's clearly a mage and he has the capability to enchant and cast spells. It's nothing wrong with expansion to customize abilities of any species.
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Post by saMoorai on Mar 3, 2018 4:20:58 GMT
I could see it happening, but I doubt it.
I really liked how MEA did it, but having Dragon Age without classes would feel...odd.
Mostly, I just want to see all the classes being able to equip any weapon like in Origins. I miss being a Mage with a Crossbow, or a Duel-Wielding Warrior.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 4:24:45 GMT
No.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 3, 2018 12:45:40 GMT
I could see it happening, but I doubt it. I really liked how MEA did it, but having Dragon Age without classes would feel...odd. Mostly, I just want to see all the classes being able to equip any weapon like in Origins. I miss being a Mage with a Crossbow, or a Duel-Wielding Warrior. Or you could create your own archetype instead of a fixed class character. Me personally, it's nothing wrong with customizing and choosing abilities without restrictions.
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Post by saMoorai on Mar 3, 2018 16:06:42 GMT
I could see it happening, but I doubt it. I really liked how MEA did it, but having Dragon Age without classes would feel...odd. Mostly, I just want to see all the classes being able to equip any weapon like in Origins. I miss being a Mage with a Crossbow, or a Duel-Wielding Warrior. Or you could create your own archetype instead of a fixed class character. Me personally, it's nothing wrong with customizing and choosing abilities without restrictions. I'm not really opposed to the idea, it'd just be something I'd have to get used to. Too used to the status quo, I guess. If anything, i'd benefit from a classless system as it'd let me finally be the Arcane Archer I've wanted to be since the series started.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 3, 2018 19:06:56 GMT
The only problem is the lore on mages but after playing TW3 and MEA I support the idea 110%. Maybe even with a slight lore bend.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Mar 5, 2018 0:57:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 1:06:58 GMT
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Post by ahglock on Mar 9, 2018 4:03:46 GMT
If done right not necessarily opposed, though I have not seen evidence bioware can do it right.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 9, 2018 9:29:45 GMT
The only way I see a classless system truly working with Dragon Age is to basically give the PC magical ability automatically, but allow us to invest points in martial skills to build that rogue-ish or warrior-like character. Of course, this leaves dwarves out completely. Personally I couldn't care less, but I imagine many would be salty over it.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 9, 2018 9:34:10 GMT
If done right not necessarily opposed, though I have not seen evidence bioware can do it right. Hopefully, they learned from games like Skyrim who has successfully created a hybrid classless system.
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Post by Vall on Mar 9, 2018 17:06:18 GMT
If you want sort of classless system while keeping dwarves and mage/non-mage choice in without just locking one third of all options away for non-mages, you could have likes of spirit warrior, templar, shadow or reaver take the place of magic trees. Not sure how specializations would be done here, or if they were a thing at all.
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Post by Darkstarr11 on Mar 10, 2018 2:11:14 GMT
NO. Classless pretty much killed replayability in Andromeda for me (that's just me personally though). Having multiple classes encouraged me to go through multiple games, just to see what was different. How Cullen reacts to a mage, or how Leiliana reacts to an Elf...those were interesting bits of story that you might not see otherwise. Watching Morrigan tear Alistair apart when he was shocked that a Dwarf Warden DIDN'T know where Orzamaar was was cruel, but it gave all three characters a bit of depth. I went through Andromeda and not ONCE did they bring up the twins biotics. Yet tons of characters got in on talking down to a mage or an elf (especially in Orlais...word to the wise, if they can light you on fire with an angry look, DON'T mock them). I LIKE having that there...and uber characters aren't any fun. Sure, Skyrim, Fallout...they REALLY let you play around with perks, but I rarely mastered any of them...unless I decided to sink over a hundred hours into ONE playthru. I have, but I did with DA as well. On a DOZEN different characters. Between the romances, the classes, and the races...Dragon Age gives you this huge canvas to shape and create your character, and change the world. Snarky Hawke in DAI and their banter with Varric, referencing past events...Morrigan reminiscing about the Warden, their child and the finale of DAO . Those little touches matter...but you make a classless system, you lose that. It becomes generic, stale...you play it once, and what's left? That's not what these games were, nor should they become. Give us choice. Otherwise, we might as well go back to playing Final Fantasy XIII.
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Post by simit on Mar 10, 2018 4:15:43 GMT
There be solid arguments for an against in this thread alone an tbh i normally favour as much freedom an choice as possible when it comes to skills an i have cried for classless to be brought into DA but i now think this series would benefit more just from 2 combat approaches, 1 all magic an 1 everything else, if you pick mage every magic school is open to you an if you dont pick mage all warrior/rogue trees are available
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Post by ahglock on Mar 10, 2018 4:26:26 GMT
They could kind of split the difference, have classes but also have a build your own class system. Pick 5 trees at char gen and that's what you get to play with. Starting trees would effect starting stats, like magic trees would give +1-2 to magic and will.
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Post by goishen on Mar 10, 2018 17:53:16 GMT
I doubt it. Although anything is possible, now that we have games that can be completed in one sitting.
SP games are going the way of the dodo and there's nothing lefts for geeks like me to do, except for board games. Which are... I mean, they're board games.
Meh.
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Post by Darkstarr11 on Mar 11, 2018 16:37:36 GMT
I doubt it. Although anything is possible, now that we have games that can be completed in one sitting. SP games are going the way of the dodo and there's nothing lefts for geeks like me to do, except for board games. Which are... I mean, they're board games. Meh. SP is going the way of the dodo for EA...several other companies are still interested in SP...but I don't know if that's SP RPGs. Maybe Japan, but EA seems to be done with them. Miss some of the old board games, lol. Though Tabletop can seem even more railroaded than an on rails shooter.
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Post by goishen on Mar 11, 2018 16:59:03 GMT
That's true.
Maybe Starfield (Bethesda) will be something interesting. I just hope that we get more info on it at E3 or whatever event they're hosting. It just sucks that the biggest video game company in the world has stooped down to such levels as corporate greed and incoherence as to what gamers actually want. They're only doing what the one percent want : the whales. Of course that's where the money is. So why wouldn't they? Greed is good, right? EA's just doing what society taught them.
Ya know. 'Cause Murica.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 12, 2018 5:50:08 GMT
I doubt it. Although anything is possible, now that we have games that can be completed in one sitting. SP games are going the way of the dodo and there's nothing lefts for geeks like me to do, except for board games. Which are... I mean, they're board games. Meh. Some pretty epic SP games came out in 2017. So, I'm not so sure on that. It does seem like its on a downward trend though. Just don;t think its going to die out, just be less frequent.
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Post by Raga on Mar 12, 2018 22:27:42 GMT
I don't want classless, but I do want weapon style to not be on rails anymore. For instance, in DAO, my canon Warden is a rogue and I forgo specialization on her so that she is *both* an archer and a dual wielder and I can switch between the two as appropriate. I've also played warrior archers & dual wielders before. So just less rigidity with what weapon style a given class can use would be nice.
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Post by Vall on Mar 12, 2018 23:27:23 GMT
I don't want classless, but I do want weapon style to not be on rails anymore. For instance, in DAO, my canon Warden is a rogue and I forgo specialization on her so that she is *both* an archer and a dual wielder and I can switch between the two as appropriate. I've also played warrior archers & dual wielders before. So just less rigidity with what weapon style a given class can use would be nice. I would probably settle for that, if it was opened up not just for rogues and warriors but mages as well. My favorite Warden is a dual-wielding Arcane Warrior. Thing is, if they do that, I also want at least one (preferably weapon neutral) weapon tree for mages. Knight Enchanter was nice in DAI for allowing your mage to be in melee range, but you still only have one melee ability which you end up spamming (or not after a certain patch...). I would rather have more of these abilities, with cooldown if need be, that interact. If they don't want to make it independent on weapon then...single blade, no off-hand. Or make book, libram, grimoire off-hands What I'm saying is...I want to be able to make a certified spellsword, without mods, workarounds and what not if I so desire. I just want that option for once....the desire is only strengthened by my most recent MEA playthrough, where I played with Cloak, Warp and Shockwave, utilising a sword as my primary weapon.
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Post by Brannegan on Mar 13, 2018 12:49:47 GMT
I don't like the idea of classless Dragon Age. While a neat idea for certain kind of RPGs, for a group based combat game it's just meh. If I want to be the rogue of my team then I want to be the rogue of my team, not some random demi-god who can do whatever is most convenient. Classlessness also eats replayability for me, since if I can just try all the crazy builds and playstyles in one playthrough, why would I bother replaying, esspecially since different dialogue choices aren't even that different these days. Ofc MEA and FO4 with all their issues are the only examples I have but having classless system with 50 shades of yes as dialogue options surely doesn't make me feel like replaying.
I guess I could deal with classlessness if it came with very scarce skillpoints and no respeccing. Would make me feel less like my character is some weird omniblob who can do anything and everything and needs no party.
But hey, since the veils coming down and everyone will be magic I guess classlessness is where the future of DA is at ._.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 22:46:09 GMT
I liked the classless system in Skyrim, though now that I'm thinking about it, I would still tend to build my characters with a specific class in mind. What I would like is a lot more choice within the classes, I honestly didn't like most of the mage spells outside of the elemental stuff.
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Post by LogicGunn on Mar 14, 2018 2:03:59 GMT
I'm all for classes to be less limited in what equipment they can use, but the mage thing can't be a blurred line; you're either a mage or you're not. I don't want to see a situation in DA where anyone can fling a fireball, especially when being a mage has such a massive impact on the quality of life and life experiences of a person in Thedas.
I think there is such a thing as too much freedom in a game. Part of the fun in RPG gaming is being limited in some way by your characters abilities and replaying with a different set of skills. That isn't necessarily negated with more freedom, but it's less pronounced and really if I can do everything I want to in a single play through then the next play might not happen. In MEA it was nice to be able to pick skills, but the free for all biotic skill thing really irked me.
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Post by Vall on Mar 14, 2018 7:03:28 GMT
I'm all for classes to be less limited in what equipment they can use, but the mage thing can't be a blurred line; you're either a mage or you're not. I don't want to see a situation in DA where anyone can fling a fireball, especially when being a mage has such a massive impact on the quality of life and life experiences of a person in Thedas. Which is why a sort of two class system was proposed later in the thread. You could be either be a mage or non-mage, with magic skills for non-mages being replaced by pseudo magic like Spirit Warrior, Tempest and Templar skills. I think there is such a thing as too much freedom in a game. Part of the fun in RPG gaming is being limited in some way by your characters abilities and replaying with a different set of skills. That isn't necessarily negated with more freedom, but it's less pronounced and really if I can do everything I want to in a single play through then the next play might not happen. In MEA it was nice to be able to pick skills, but the free for all biotic skill thing really irked me. That can be remedied by designing the system well. Not allowing you to be everything at once could be done by either level capping your character or making skill points rare, plus you could introduce ramping skill costs the further you go into the tree (but then make those further skills powerful enough to be worth it). What I'm saying is, it can be made work in a way that doesn't make your character good at everything if they put effort into designing it well. The goal simply should be to let you create your own class from available options rather than to let you do everything at the same time.
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