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Post by projectpatdc on May 15, 2017 8:26:28 GMT
I don't think the game's setting as it was would have worked if all maps were simply traversable by foot. Like, you can't compress Paradise, New Tuchanka, the Flophouse, the Remnant derelict and any other important points of interest in a small map on Elaaden without totally breaking the illusion of a proper landscape. i was just surprised there were no Kett on Elaaden at all. I would have liked seeing Kett start to invade Elaadin after a certain point in the main story.
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Post by kumazan on May 15, 2017 8:31:48 GMT
I don't think the game's setting as it was would have worked if all maps were simply traversable by foot. Like, you can't compress Paradise, New Tuchanka, the Flophouse, the Remnant derelict and any other important points of interest in a small map on Elaaden without totally breaking the illusion of a proper landscape. i was just surprised there were no Kett on Elaaden at all. I would have liked seeing Kett start to invade Elaadin after a certain point in the main story. I guess they know better than to mess with the krogan.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 15, 2017 8:38:16 GMT
I don't think the game's setting as it was would have worked if all maps were simply traversable by foot. Like, you can't compress Paradise, New Tuchanka, the Flophouse, the Remnant derelict and any other important points of interest in a small map on Elaaden without totally breaking the illusion of a proper landscape. i was just surprised there were no Kett on Elaaden at all. I would have liked seeing Kett start to invade Elaadin after a certain point in the main story. Well, there is the small band we come across in Dissension in the Ranks, though they technically don't count since they're not there by choice. But this shouldn't be all that surprising. The Kett's entire purpose for being in the cluster precludes any serious ground assaults if it means obliterating the population they're supposed to convert, which is the reason they haven't attempted a head-on assault of Havaarl. Plus, their ground forces aren't really strong enough to simply crush any resistance they come across, or else a place like Voeld would have been taken over already. Exiles managed to expel them from Kadara Port, and they never managed to take it back. But Elaaden is immensely worse. It's teeming with just as many exiles, plus it's home of the entire krogan clan. The krogan would absolutely destroy any kett ground forces that landed there.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on May 15, 2017 9:52:09 GMT
I would have really appreciated just a storyline instead the open world. All Bioware games that feature the open world approach are vastly underwhelming and the best games Bioware has ever churned out where those with big and tight storylines.
The open world areas in ME:A did nothing but serve as filler content to artificially stretch the playing time of the game, spending hours with boring mining nodes, driving around through empty deserts for hours only to get frequently stopped be ever respawning looters/mercs/kett resulting in repetitive firefights and solving the same puzzles on 5 different planets. Thats not my idea of fun, thats just boring grind. A day in the office.
In contrast, the story missions were pretty decent though, finding lost arks, boarding an alien ship, fighting in an abandoned alien city.... thats much better.
I hope Bioware ditches their open world approach for good and and spends all their resources on story driven games with great detailed missions. The open world thing is nothing but a fad that serves no purpose besides as playground for MMO's. Open world belongs to those theories that sound great as a concept on paper but never turn out great in reality. (In singleplayer games)
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Post by dm04 on May 15, 2017 11:18:11 GMT
As someone who actually really enjoys the "open world" aspects of MEA, I would like to have this for better pacing and quick play throughs. And those who say there aren't any choices that matter, I completely disagree as most choices we make won't have a big effect until the sequel....just like ME1 and ME2. Ryder isn't a spectre so not having a renegade character makes sense. You aren't above the law and you're supposed to be an explorer as opposed to an agent I gues you do not understand why some people miss paragon/renegade. Paragon/renegade is not gone, it is still there, there are enouch choices that let your Ryder be paragon or renegade, though I know a lot of people do not get it. (ie shooting at Kalinda and valuing some remnant tech more then life is pretty much renegade). What I miss is a dialogue choice that matters. As an example, look at ME2 and the 2 Asari girls... they have two very different dialogues whther we saved the council, or "killed" it, and on top of that paragon-neutral-renegade have also their own dialogue. Does it affect the game and its outcome in any way? Nope. Do I care? Nope. I just wish we had this in MEA... be emotional and comforting, or logical cold, or distant profesional, or joking casualy, it does not matter at all. 4 different way to react to a situation result in ONE answer, the world does not evolve around us, it does not react to us. All that changes is the psych profile in the codex. I say: screw you bioware. And I will never understand why anyone can defend this new approach to the dialogue system. It is not about paragon/renegade, it is not about emotional/logical/casual/professional, it is about differences. We had 2 options and 2 outcomes, now we have 4 options and 1 outcome. Yet people keep defending it, riding the paragon/renegade blablabla horse and the no spectre blabla bla horse.
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Post by correctamundo on May 15, 2017 12:04:17 GMT
As someone who actually really enjoys the "open world" aspects of MEA, I would like to have this for better pacing and quick play throughs. And those who say there aren't any choices that matter, I completely disagree as most choices we make won't have a big effect until the sequel....just like ME1 and ME2. Ryder isn't a spectre so not having a renegade character makes sense. You aren't above the law and you're supposed to be an explorer as opposed to an agent What I miss is a dialogue choice that matters. As an example, look at ME2 and the 2 Asari girls... they have two very different dialogues whther we saved the council, or "killed" it,... Choice made in ME1 > consequence in ME2. Totally the same thing as choice in MEA > consequence in MEA. Anyway you go trying to talk to Khesh after taking the dialogue choice of making Raeka the interim ambassador.
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Post by LogicGunn on May 15, 2017 12:08:36 GMT
Pacing was a little immersion-breaking in MEA. I prefer a richer story with more fleshed out characters to an open world in ME. But I like to keep an open mind.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 12:20:53 GMT
I... don't understand the question? I'm already playing it that way, and I don't mind more quests popping up around the planets. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I do not. I thought the story was pretty linear tbh. Way more so than in Inquisition. But if it's even more linear, I am not against it either. I'd be sorry to miss out on some rather cool side quests, like Knight's and Salarian intrigue, but whatever it takes to get the game produced.
So, I just don' know how to answer your question?
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Post by dm04 on May 15, 2017 13:33:33 GMT
What I miss is a dialogue choice that matters. As an example, look at ME2 and the 2 Asari girls... they have two very different dialogues whther we saved the council, or "killed" it,... Choice made in ME1 > consequence in ME2. Totally the same thing as choice in MEA > consequence in MEA. Anyway you go trying to talk to Khesh after taking the dialogue choice of making Raeka the interim ambassador. And another one NOT getting the point. A little bit of advice read understand think answer The whole "topic" is about paragon/renegade choices that lead to a different dialogue outcome. The example mentioned gives us THREE different outcomes (on top of the two different "starting" points, which are a result of a previous game. So, I am not denying a possible situation change in future games based on our choices now, it is just about NOW. So extra for you another example: ME2 this biotic volus god... impact on game ZERO. Still two outcomes: a) paragon-> push the volus over and save his life OR renegade -> let the volus lead the charge and die. Wonder why people have such a hard time understanding basic concepts and logic, gues I speak swahili.
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Post by correctamundo on May 15, 2017 13:41:22 GMT
Choice made in ME1 > consequence in ME2. Totally the same thing as choice in MEA > consequence in MEA. Anyway you go trying to talk to Khesh after taking the dialogue choice of making Raeka the interim ambassador. And another one NOT getting the point. A little bit of advice read understand think answer The whole "topic" is about paragon/renegade choices that lead to a different dialogue outcome. The example mentioned gives us THREE different outcomes (on top of the two different "starting" points, which are a result of a previous game. So, I am not denying a possible situation change in future games based on our choices now, it is just about NOW. So extra for you another example: ME2 this biotic volus god... impact on game ZERO. Still two outcomes: a) paragon-> push the volus over and save his life OR renegade -> let the volus lead the charge and die. Wonder why people have such a hard time understanding basic concepts and logic, gues I speak swahili. Ok...you probably should freshen up your swahili.
So MEA: Roekaar holds a gun to womans head. Two choices.
Paragon: I will let you go if you spare the womans life. Renegade: Go ahead, make my day.
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Post by Thalandor on May 15, 2017 13:50:48 GMT
Having some exploration is nice, but this was too much. Something like cutting things down to maybe 2 Havarl sized "on-foot" planets, and 3 vehicles planets, and make the vehicle planets about half the size of the current ones.
Imagine Eos without all the western part. They could easily have put the most important bits in the lower eastern part, like the Kett base and architect fight area. Keep things more tight.
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Post by phantomrachie on May 15, 2017 13:58:18 GMT
I always think the pacing of a game is a bit off when it has an open world, (yes, even the Witcher 3) however many of the missions & mechanics of this game were designed with an open world in mind so I don't think a "linear story mode" would work.
However, MEA set up how big and open the Helius cluster is, so I would have no issue at all with any possible MEA2 being more linear.
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Post by jclosed on May 15, 2017 14:49:52 GMT
There will always be people that feel more comfortable with a "shooter on rails" linear gameplay, and other people that like to explore and discover things.
I personally feel too confined with a linear game play, and for me ME:A was a breath of fresh air. I felt more free to make choices on what things I would like to go after. Sometimes that even can be simply a bit of grinding. There is nothing wrong with a bit of grinding as long as it's not overdone. Other times I like picking up a side mission or story mission. I simply like to have lots of choices in one location (be it a planet or a station like the Nexus).
Make no mistake. Some parts of ME:A are still very much "on rails" (think about the loyalty missions), but ME:A certainly gives more freedom than the older games. Sure - sometimes the distances feel large, and it feels like there is a lot of empty space. But if you think about that, there is some logic in it. You cannot have (as an example) the bunkhouses and the Krogan colony just near each other. That would not work. And let's be fair, driving around in the Nomad is fun too. There are enough fast travel points (forward stations) to jump from one point to another on the map.
At the end - I would really hate to see the gameplay be harked back to the confined "on rails" type of the previous games. I like the game type of ME:A, and I rather see them improving and streamlining that, than go back to that dated same old, same old.
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Post by dm04 on May 15, 2017 14:57:55 GMT
And another one NOT getting the point. A little bit of advice read understand think answer The whole "topic" is about paragon/renegade choices that lead to a different dialogue outcome. The example mentioned gives us THREE different outcomes (on top of the two different "starting" points, which are a result of a previous game. So, I am not denying a possible situation change in future games based on our choices now, it is just about NOW. So extra for you another example: ME2 this biotic volus god... impact on game ZERO. Still two outcomes: a) paragon-> push the volus over and save his life OR renegade -> let the volus lead the charge and die. Wonder why people have such a hard time understanding basic concepts and logic, gues I speak swahili. Ok...you probably should freshen up your swahili.
So MEA: Roekaar holds a gun to womans head. Two choices.
Paragon: I will let you go if you spare the womans life. Renegade: Go ahead, make my day.
yah and thats why I said there is still paragon/renegade around and why it is still NOTHING about paragon/renegade it is about dialogue options, both game choices and dialogue choices were limited to paragon/renegade now we still have paragon/renegade, but the dialogue options are split into 4 tones with 1 outcome so yah, I go fresh up my swahili and I suggest you take some classes in basic understanding
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 15, 2017 15:07:04 GMT
I prefer the open world aspects andromeda gave, so I therefore voted no on linear bullshit, especially when there's no need to have the devs split their time on this. It's just like "new halo fans" and "old halo fans" demanding 343 to make half the game fit for them and the other half for the other, you can't do that lol, takes to much time and focus and it results in trying compromises that will eventually piss people off. Bioware simply NEEDS to decide: open world-ish? Or linear corridor bullshit?
As for your post on the games decisions being so-so and then gaining value when they carry over to the next game. What happens when those decisions don't carry over? Why are we assuming they will? Bioware has even hinted various times this ME may not even reuse choices and they've said the same for the protagonist Ryder. If they follow through with that, this game then just becomes that much worse when it comes to decisions mattering. As I said though, they've only hinted at that, but they've also said to hold onto our saves "just in case" so I can also see them still making things carry over as well. It's 50/50 it seems. People saying "there's still unanswered questions", well good thing there's DLC to fix that hmm? Doesn't even take a whole game to answer what andromeda left us with besides the jaarden if you ask me, and that can still be finished with a different protagonist. Andromeda sets itself up for sequels, but it also sets itself up where Ryder doesn't "have" to carry over into the next game.
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Post by Turian Werewolf on May 15, 2017 15:07:50 GMT
I like ME:A just fine but to be honest, I much prefer the style of ME2 and 3.
I'd rather the next ME game go back to that, with added character-based content.
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Post by correctamundo on May 15, 2017 15:10:57 GMT
Ok...you probably should freshen up your swahili.
So MEA: Roekaar holds a gun to womans head. Two choices.
Paragon: I will let you go if you spare the womans life. Renegade: Go ahead, make my day.
yah and thats why I said there is still paragon/renegade around and why it is still NOTHING about paragon/renegade it is about dialogue options, both game choices and dialogue choices were limited to paragon/renegade now we still have paragon/renegade, but the dialogue options are split into 4 tones with 1 outcome so yah, I go fresh up my swahili and I suggest you take some classes in basic understanding I have given you several examples of dialogue choices that matter. But I guess when reality doesn't match your worldview then reality is faulty?
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Post by idkmyname on May 15, 2017 15:40:08 GMT
So like ME2/3 mission style? I would love that. I'm kinda sick of everything needing to be open world. I mean it's fine when it works(see MGSV and Witcher 3) but when it doesn't, the game literally( ) becomes painful. DAI and MEA both go into the latter.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 15, 2017 19:16:46 GMT
As someone who actually really enjoys the "open world" aspects of MEA, I would like to have this for better pacing and quick play throughs. And those who say there aren't any choices that matter, I completely disagree as most choices we make won't have a big effect until the sequel....just like ME1 and ME2. Ryder isn't a spectre so not having a renegade character makes sense. You aren't above the law and you're supposed to be an explorer as opposed to an agent I gues you do not understand why some people miss paragon/renegade. Paragon/renegade is not gone, it is still there, there are enouch choices that let your Ryder be paragon or renegade, though I know a lot of people do not get it. (ie shooting at Kalinda and valuing some remnant tech more then life is pretty much renegade). What I miss is a dialogue choice that matters. As an example, look at ME2 and the 2 Asari girls... they have two very different dialogues whther we saved the council, or "killed" it, and on top of that paragon-neutral-renegade have also their own dialogue. Does it affect the game and its outcome in any way? Nope. Do I care? Nope. I just wish we had this in MEA... be emotional and comforting, or logical cold, or distant profesional, or joking casualy, it does not matter at all. 4 different way to react to a situation result in ONE answer, the world does not evolve around us, it does not react to us. All that changes is the psych profile in the codex. I say: screw you bioware. And I will never understand why anyone can defend this new approach to the dialogue system. It is not about paragon/renegade, it is not about emotional/logical/casual/professional, it is about differences. We had 2 options and 2 outcomes, now we have 4 options and 1 outcome. Yet people keep defending it, riding the paragon/renegade blablabla horse and the no spectre blabla bla horse. .............ok
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 15, 2017 19:32:15 GMT
If they made a scoring system for each mission where power combos added multipliers or headshots and aim accuracy improved ratings as well as time and then made all that factor into a rank from E-A which would unlock special gear and skins for SP and trophies, plus make a level-select screen, that would be awesome. The main missions, story or not, are great and easily the best parts of the game. Loyalty missions too. So like ME2/3 mission style? I would love that. I'm kinda sick of everything needing to be open world. I mean it's fine when it works(see MGSV and Witcher 3) but when it doesn't, the game literally( becomes painful. DAI and MEA both go into the latter. Looking at your avatar I think I understand your grief. I'm playing Nier Automata right now. It's a kickass game BUT it's really held back by the forced open-world quota that every game and its mother needs in this day and age.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 15, 2017 19:44:24 GMT
I would have really appreciated just a storyline instead the open world. All Bioware games that feature the open world approach are vastly underwhelming and the best games Bioware has ever churned out where those with big and tight storylines. The open world areas in ME:A did nothing but serve as filler content to artificially stretch the playing time of the game, spending hours with boring mining nodes, driving around through empty deserts for hours only to get frequently stopped be ever respawning looters/mercs/kett resulting in repetitive firefights and solving the same puzzles on 5 different planets. Thats not my idea of fun, thats just boring grind. A day in the office. In contrast, the story missions were pretty decent though, finding lost arks, boarding an alien ship, fighting in an abandoned alien city.... thats much better. I hope Bioware ditches their open world approach for good and and spends all their resources on story driven games with great detailed missions. The open world thing is nothing but a fad that serves no purpose besides as playground for MMO's. Open world belongs to those theories that sound great as a concept on paper but never turn out great in reality. (In singleplayer games) Or you know a playground for any type of gaming if done right. Just need be a kid again and have a little more imagination when playing open world games. Otherwise we get on rails linear slogs that are artificially made exciting by a story that could be presented as a movie instead. And some linear games are great like uncharted, tomb raider, dishonored 2. Bioware' linear games are shoot in corridor, speak, cutscene, loading screen, speak options, cutscene, loading screen. Just let me play the game!
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Post by projectpatdc on May 15, 2017 21:09:08 GMT
I would have really appreciated just a storyline instead the open world. All Bioware games that feature the open world approach are vastly underwhelming and the best games Bioware has ever churned out where those with big and tight storylines. The open world areas in ME:A did nothing but serve as filler content to artificially stretch the playing time of the game, spending hours with boring mining nodes, driving around through empty deserts for hours only to get frequently stopped be ever respawning looters/mercs/kett resulting in repetitive firefights and solving the same puzzles on 5 different planets. Thats not my idea of fun, thats just boring grind. A day in the office. In contrast, the story missions were pretty decent though, finding lost arks, boarding an alien ship, fighting in an abandoned alien city.... thats much better. I hope Bioware ditches their open world approach for good and and spends all their resources on story driven games with great detailed missions. The open world thing is nothing but a fad that serves no purpose besides as playground for MMO's. Open world belongs to those theories that sound great as a concept on paper but never turn out great in reality. (In singleplayer games) But I also see why people don't enjoy doing "tasks". I like when games have variety though. And MEA's tasks are never shoot this many enemies or pick this many random minerals. There's one quest where you have to find a specific mineral across all worlds but I never set that quest as a beacon, I would do it if I was near it and it fits well with exploring new planets. Me personally, I just like having options and I like being able to drive on planets. But I would also settle with how Uncharted 4 handles the Madagascar level where it was open world with driving but it was still a "linear level" in the story progression. It worked really well. Habitat 7 is a great linear level design where the player can breeze straight through it but also take alternate routes and do some exploring. I think going forward, if MEA2 does planets again, there should be larger set piece missions part of the main story on each planet. In MEA, Kadara and Elaaden are pretty much optional outside of Kadara port so it takes away from their value and the main storyline's value. It's also makes the malign campaign seem more disjointed and shorter than the OT games. And yeah I too enjoy having a great story focused game to immerse in after doing mundane tasks at work. I just feel the OT's gameplay is a bit stale now. Maybe going the route of Halo3 (the last one I played) with large set pieces and vehicles mixed in. Almost like Tuchanka on ME3 but bigger, playable, linear maps. Also, having a linear story mode going forward could allow for the best of both worlds with fans.
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Post by alanc9 on May 15, 2017 21:33:04 GMT
I waould have really appreciated just a storyline instead the open world. All Bioware games that feature the open world approach are vastly underwhelming and the best games Bioware has ever churned out where those with big and tight storylines. Or you know a playground for any type of gaming if done right. Just need be a kid again and have a little more imagination when playing open world games. Otherwise we get on rails linear slogs that are artificially made exciting by a story that could be presented as a movie instead. And some linear games are great like uncharted, tomb raider, dishonored 2. Bioware' linear games are shoot in corridor, speak, cutscene, loading screen, speak options, cutscene, loading screen. Just let me play the game! Does telling people how to like stuff they don't like ever actually work for you?
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Post by projectpatdc on May 15, 2017 21:53:53 GMT
Or you know a playground for any type of gaming if done right. Just need be a kid again and have a little more imagination when playing open world games. Otherwise we get on rails linear slogs that are artificially made exciting by a story that could be presented as a movie instead. And some linear games are great like uncharted, tomb raider, dishonored 2. Bioware' linear games are shoot in corridor, speak, cutscene, loading screen, speak options, cutscene, loading screen. Just let me play the game! Does telling people how to like stuff they don't like ever actually work for you? ......?
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Post by colfoley on May 16, 2017 3:55:16 GMT
I used to think so, but I've come around to the fact that I enjoy exploring the worlds that BioWare create. After DA:I and ME:A I'm don't think I want to go back to corridor shooters or straight up linear story lines. Truth be told every game of this type offers a chance to play the story straight through. The player may miss out on some progression, and side lore, but being able to play the story line through, and ignore the side quests, is an option. Honesty i can't help point this out enough because it does bare repeating over and over and over again and one day it might stick into the collective consiousness of the Community. The corridor shooters were the exception to the BioWare formulae...MEA and DAI, the only difference between them and DA O and ME 1 is the size of the map. DA O, ME1, DA I, even DA 2 all share the same basic map structure. ME 2 and ME 3 are the exception...I think I am forgetting a game. And honestly from what I have heard even other BW games have this formulae, like BG 1 and BG 2. Always maps with things to do in them. But they do like trying their new things every now and then. in the interest for transparency, and quoting myself, I remembered the one game I forgot. KOTOR. KOTOR also essentially followed this formulae.
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