turboj67
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Post by turboj67 on May 16, 2017 6:23:25 GMT
Minor Spoilers for those who have not finished the game. Worth the read even if you don't believe a word - there is also the entertainment factor.
Edited for clarity - this is not fanfic, it's a hypothesis.
I'll say it plain; The Kett ARE the Reapers - or at least they will be. Archon/Kett + remnant. Primus even states alludes to this in a datapad audio log during Dissension in the Ranks... you need to alter your perception. Use SAM how it was intended.
Andromeda is a journey into the past, not the future. It’s the story of how the Reapers come into being within the early Milky Way... and given it is the past; just an interactive story in which we are along for the ride, nothing we do here really matters. In the words of the Archon himself - I will control the remnant - it will be like you never came here... never even existed.
Link to full hypothesis - Mass Effect - The Search for the Truth - By Choose Wisely
Hi everyone. I know it took me forever to re-join the forum after bioware close the original, but I've been pretty busy. I'm not even sure if anyone will even remember me, but I was one of the people investigating early IT - and although I felt aspects of it were viable; I also felt it didn't go far enough. It disintegrated into a search to prove specific versions of the theory or flat out self promotions rather than creating a unified search to find out what the hell was going on in the Mass Effect Universe.
Andromeda helps get us closer than ever to the answers of what is happening in the MEU - if your willing to dig a little past the face value narrative, which in the case of Andromeda is pretty absurd in all honesty. And that's coming from someone who loves the game and has played it 5 times already.
Synopsis:
Leviathan create an AI; the 'Intelligence' to protect organic life from itself 'preserve life at all costs'. The Intelligence create the Jardaan – the controllers? AI or VI possibly partially organic; the first synthesis? …and the Remnant; an army of pawns – which were sent out to scour the galaxy collecting physical data from organic life in the cosmos.
At the end of this flurry of activity that likely spanned millions of years, they returned with this organic data and began to construct a solution – or at least tried to present a solution to their creators. The first fully integrated organic/synthetic hybrid was born – intended to bridge the gap between synthetics and organics, and hopefully prevent genocide of individual organic species due to conflicts with AI that they may one day create...
We know of them as the Angara… the dream of an AI superpower. Leviathan; or the 'opposition' as the Jardaan call them, see the Angara who were created using leviathan's essence (DNA?) as a threat. Leviathan creates and detonates the scourge in response. Everybody runs from ground zero. Heleus? or the galactic core of the early milky way? The Intelligence sees Leviathan is as much of a problem as the lesser species, and in response it modifies its original solution. Using the remaining angara it escaped with; the essence of Leviathan, it produces a purely biological creature unaffected by the scourge that can assimilate life, and in the process preserve a culture and history via the hosts memories. We know them in the story of Andromeda as the Kett... Leviathan calls them the Reapers. Exultation is born.
But there is so much more... the original Kett created at this moment outside the scourge - we know them by another name... The Protheans... Despite Leviathan calling the Kett 'Reapers' from the start, the real Reapers come later; an amalgamation of Kett physiology and Remnant technology.
...and this is what the story of Andromeda is trying to show us.
You have no idea the potential of what may be coming in the Mass Effect Universe; and I mean after the Andromeda DLCs… How about they tell us the next part of the story it in a hybrid action adventure MMORPG - a ground war with the reapers once we defeat their key weapon; Indoctrination, and turn the harvest into a war... Add biannual single player installments similar to swtor? Something just different enough from the Mass Effect status quo that it can technically be called a new IP... Funny how things work out - that they would state a delay in the new IP at the same time as saying ME will be on ice for a while... I’m surprised Vigil’s music wasn’t playing for the ‘delay’ announcement. We predicted this a long time ago, but ChooseWisely is a well kept secret. Read the google doc (linked above) to find out what may be happening with the Ryder's and Shepard. You also may want to watch the video series if you have some time. Specifically the last 3 episodes. www.youtube.com/user/choosewisely067Enjoy ~ Jennifer Wolf of the CW team.
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Post by Ahriman on May 16, 2017 8:42:43 GMT
Nice stuff you've got there.
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 16, 2017 9:38:11 GMT
"Hiatus"
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turboj67
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Post by turboj67 on May 17, 2017 1:16:30 GMT
Yep, I altered the title for some shock value, as there doesn't seem to be a pulse. I can't believe you guys don't even want to discuss this - good or bad. Andromeda is full of clues that point us in this direction, from it's general absurdity to its narrative.
"Did that really happen, or are we dead and just don't know it yet?" - dream and nightmare references are so frequent many feel forced.
The Nexus is almost as big as the citadel: which supports 14 million: it has more than enough stored resources and room to support every person that was woken up to aid in its operation and construction - without producing anything new for easily 100 years. No planets necessary - just a sun for solar energy and light and some asteroids to mine. The ring alone is potential farmland and could house all 100K immigrants... 80K of whom aren't even there yet.
Just how many were exiled anyway? I've killed thousands...
The uprising should never have happened, and if it did, the few dozen people responsible would have been contained and put back into Cryo... but no - it seems thousands were thawed, needed or not and that including tired face - and then they revolted, but did not 'win' against the leadership; all 6 of them and a few hundred Krogan. But now these wayward exiles that seem to be 90% human, kill anyone they run across and in some cases eat them. Seems likely...
Any Turrian that left the Nexus should have been dead due to starvation by the time we arrived. There are no food sources in Andromeda to support Turrians save for what is stored or grown on the Nexus. The lone dextrose planet in Heleus was nothing more than an asteroid field by the time we get here.
There are three groups of humans in the nexus dock area that talk in turrian, salarian and humans voices... One even had a conversation with himself in female human and salarian voices... This was pointed out to BW in a twitter by us before the first major patch. For patch 1.05 BW changed their clothing and left the voices... in 1.06... they left the voices unchanged again.
Look a little past the surface narrative, just behind the ridiculousness - everything you need is there.
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Post by Kelwing on May 17, 2017 2:03:48 GMT
I umm....going to go stand over there with a few friends of mine from work
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Post by dmc1001 on May 17, 2017 4:57:29 GMT
Though I love your presentation, I've never been a fan of IT. I don't honestly believe BioWare had this deep plot going on that they decided to never ever reveal. I'm midway through the fifth video, and I know there's more, so I may have additional commentary later.
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Post by SwobyJ on May 20, 2017 4:49:17 GMT
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turboj67
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Post by turboj67 on May 20, 2017 8:59:17 GMT
Someone gets it...
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Post by KonguZya on May 21, 2017 3:36:38 GMT
As someone who sort of headcanons IT, no, just no. Does anything in Andromeda lead you to believe that Bioware is even possible of creating anything even resembling a story this complex? Or have I simply fallen for some top-tier trolling?
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Post by turboj67 on May 21, 2017 6:50:53 GMT
Yes, and yes to the trolling as well actually by bioware if that's what you are asking. I thought a lot of people would have figured some of that out after ME2 with the release of the red herring code and Deception, but it seems interpreting literature and the arts is no longer an effective course in school these days, if it's being taught at all.
Anyway, follow the threads. Start with Revelations and go from there and things get stranger and stranger the further into the story we go.
The reason; Our memories give voice to their words. Although I stated that a cipher was not actually needed because the language of the aliens that left the archive on mars was cracked 25 years ago (yes prothean, but if they are Kett and Kett were angara and everything came from Leviathan+remnant) - do the math' the languages will all be similar... Look at the narrative surrounding the ancient angaran ruins and the statue that 'does not look' angaran according to the curator on Aya - could be Jardaan; most likely Leviathan. I digress...
Knowing the language or even having an omnitool translate it on the fly doesn't mean we could easily interpret their though processes; it would be extraordinarily difficult to think like an alien without a great deal of cultural understanding... so if Levi were to inject it's thoughts into our head in order to tell a story, its going to result is some pretty interesting narrative. Hey - at least our words aren't colorless.
Funny how Angaran statues on Havarl look like collectors... or protheans... like the one eyed protheans on Thessia even.
So many threads...
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Post by SwobyJ on May 21, 2017 19:48:17 GMT
I tend to think, or rather feel or sense, that 'MEA' arc has more to do with the trilogy than meets the eye (the 'eye' seeing what it is intended to see; a 'fresh start'), while nonetheless will always emphasize moving forward, onward, with no necessary ties to the trilogy (if only to not create a franchise fatigue for people trying to understand plots).
Whether that is a crazy as Choose Wisely is another matter.
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Post by turboj67 on May 22, 2017 2:50:20 GMT
I tend to think, or rather feel or sense, that 'MEA' arc has more to do with the trilogy than meets the eye (the 'eye' seeing what it is intended to see; a 'fresh start'), while nonetheless will always emphasize moving forward, onward, with no necessary ties to the trilogy (if only to not create a franchise fatigue for people trying to understand plots). Whether that is a crazy as Choose Wisely is another matter. We don't disagree with that actually and state that it combines elements of all three games into one, but focuses on ME2 right up to the ham-fisted boss battle. The connection; or how the OT and Andromeda are interconnected, however is where our thoughts diverge. Look at Paragon Lost; James' version of ME2. Connected, yet disjointed. Andromeda is a reiteration of the OT but the 'story of the past' being told to the Ryder's is a little easier to see. Could that be because we have SAM? Maybe we needed the AI to gain perspective for were we were going? We have not left the Milky way. We never even went to the terminus system in the OT... in fact, it's impossible to know where Shepard or Ryder really are; but it's unlikely they are still on Eden Prime. It more likely they are in a special medical facility operated by the 'Initiative'; if not the Alliance or Council. It would be pretty damn cool if we woke up in the last DLC and Saren was at the end of our bed looking at a chart and arguing with a doctor on weather our SAM got the location of the 'enemy' forces... we are supposed to be finding a path, right? ...hearing more muffled voices, get clearer now - and one; that sure sounds... like Shepard talking?
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Post by LilTIM on May 22, 2017 15:42:39 GMT
The ME trilogy was written by several people, some started then quit, others came later. We have evidence of original plots that disappeared (dark energy), controversial changes (ME3 "no oversight" endings), and many retcons (Councilor Anderson, ME1 Human Council, ME3 Rachni, etc.)
Then we have MEA where there are several reused ideas from ME3 (creators and created - AI synthesis) and also many lackluster concepts poorly explained or even developed (the Uprising, Reasons for leaving milky way, the Archon's fleet, and loads more).
Thus if these series were written by a single person or team, that stuck through it from beginning to end, i could see the potential in these theories. As this isn't the case, i don't see any reason for trying to find connections when we know that the ME series lore has been all over the place, adapting to gameplay needs (thermal clips anyone?), and several authors putting their own twist and ideas on it (like Walters is now doing with his "synthesis end" in MEA).
I'd say the lack of responses is because many think this is a pointless exercise, but don't want to offend you, so you get no answers instead. The indoctrination theory on the other hand was popular back then because it offered a plausible explanation, using contents of the same game, to explain the endings which made little sense otherwise. And the extended cut + leviathan dlc put an end to that too.
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Post by SwobyJ on May 22, 2017 19:47:57 GMT
I think they can make connections but I don't suppose the grand design, but more mostly making it up as it goes along, just with more internal connections than most fans assume.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 19:59:31 GMT
The ME trilogy was written by several people, some started then quit, others came later. We have evidence of original plots that disappeared (dark energy), controversial changes (ME3 "no oversight" endings), and many retcons (Councilor Anderson, ME1 Human Council, ME3 Rachni, etc.) Then we have MEA where there are several reused ideas from ME3 (creators and created - AI synthesis) and also many lackluster concepts poorly explained or even developed (the Uprising, Reasons for leaving milky way, the Archon's fleet, and loads more). Thus if these series were written by a single person or team, that stuck through it from beginning to end, i could see the potential in these theories. As this isn't the case, i don't see any reason for trying to find connections when we know that the ME series lore has been all over the place, adapting to gameplay needs (thermal clips anyone?), and several authors putting their own twist and ideas on it (like Walters is now doing with his "synthesis end" in MEA). I'd say the lack of responses is because many think this is a pointless exercise, but don't want to offend you, so you get no answers instead. The indoctrination theory on the other hand was popular back then because it offered a plausible explanation, using contents of the same game, to explain the endings which made little sense otherwise. And the extended cut + leviathan dlc put an end to that too. Yeah. Bioware was very careful to make it clear that MEA was not the start of a new trilogy; they were waiting for the reaction to the game before they would commit to keeping Ryder as the PC for more than one game. I think even before release the entire ME situation was precarious enough that they had to play it safe and take it one game at a time, not immediately assume there would be multiple new games with an overarching story. MEA leaves plots open but it feels like providing new story beats for later games, not the introduction to a story as far reaching as the Reapers.
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Post by Psychevore on May 22, 2017 20:36:05 GMT
Indoctrination Theory, lol.
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Post by turboj67 on May 22, 2017 21:18:32 GMT
I'd say the lack of responses is because many think this is a pointless exercise, but don't want to offend you, so you get no answers instead. The indoctrination theory on the other hand was popular back then because it offered a plausible explanation, using contents of the same game, to explain the endings which made little sense otherwise. And the extended cut + leviathan dlc put an end to that too. We are not made of dust and wishes and won't be offended by opinion or criticism that easily. Debate usually makes for a better hypothesis, as it encourages critical thinking and a deeper understanding of the narrative - the whole point is to try to solve a puzzle or a mystery and you can't do that in a vacuum. Anyway it's fun to pull on the threads and see where they lead. The narrative is telling us more than a face value story - we did not pulled it out of the air, nor is it accidental/coincidental connections. You can't mistake the 4th memory for anything but an 'in your face clue' that Andromeda is not what it seems. If anyone does - they simply are not paying attention. And that's just one of the many clues embedded into this chapter of the MEU. You may want to go back and play ME3 again and watch that new ending a little closer. We go from teleporting squad mates and no real explanation/epilogue, to a teleporting Normandy called down by a cowardly Shepard who just a few minutes ago said we do this or die trying? Then we have Harbinger stop firing and calmly look on respectful of Shep's feelings and the battle field injured allow the evacuation... Because REEZONZ - lol wut? ...add some stills, narrative, a nice planet backdrop for the crash/recovery, birds for ambiance - that's a segment. ~Keri T'Vessa So much worse if you think about it.
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Post by Mir Aven on May 26, 2017 12:01:54 GMT
Everytime a Bioware game has a weak plot that barely makes sense, there are fans that think up this grand theory of what the plot is/should be. After ME trilogy there was IT, now after Andromeda there's this. Sure most of those people are trolling but among them there are always those that really believe those theories. Sometimes it makes me wonder were do the latter take the confidence that Bioware would create such a multi-faceted plot. Sometimes I think it's just the desperation talking and it makes me sad.
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Post by n7vakarian on May 27, 2017 14:19:57 GMT
Please no just no, I don't want them to go down this road. The Reapers and reaper like things are for the original trilogy I would make rather see this series carry on with new things rather than repeating what has been done before.
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Post by turboj67 on May 27, 2017 15:37:35 GMT
Everytime a Bioware game has a weak plot that barely makes sense, there are fans that think up this grand theory of what the plot is/should be. After ME trilogy there was IT, now after Andromeda there's this. Sure most of those people are trolling but among them there are always those that really believe those theories. Sometimes it makes me wonder were do the latter take the confidence that Bioware would create such a multi-faceted plot. Sometimes I think it's just the desperation talking and it makes me sad. I had nothing to gain from this and certainly nothing to lose, but I also don’t feel any sense of desperation. Mass Effect is a work of fiction and an amazingly complex story that crosses the medium boundary in a way few would dare to try… books, games, comics, iOS, social media, an amusement ride in So-Cal and one movie so far. And woven through every part of the face value story are threads of the past. A story vigil itself told us we needed to hear. Is our interpretation really so bad? It adds to the entertainment factor at least, but maybe it also offers hope; something the main narrative has always tried to express… there is always hope. Even if we are not correct or there is never a payoff for the sub story (which is so completely unlikely, as I’ll note), we will still benefit from future games. If we are correct then Bioware blows the roof off the video game industry with a twist and blazes a new path for the franchise. As for this being made up to smooth over retcons or plot holes, it’s actually the opposite; we tend to tear them open or laugh them out of the room (see recons for what they are). Please take the time to read Revelation. It will be a literal eye opener. IT started out as a good investigation, but it got too segregated. It never hardened into a unified theory. We went further. We let the subtext in the narrative and exposition tell us a story – even if the story was like looking through frosted glass, we did our best to understand the musings of an ancient alien a billion years our senior try to explain the past and warn us of what was coming. Simply put, it is a journey into the past. A story to tell us what the Reapers do, how they do it, that there would be no war if we didn’t come up with a non-conventional way of thinking to get around their greatest weapons and tactics. Then via Andromeda, we learn how the Reapers came to being, or at least we are in the process of learning their origins. We wanted to know, remember? Star kid didn’t tell us enough and we raged. The Levi DLC and the modified ending still wasn’t enough, so we raged some more. This stupid singularity and the non-answers or vague ramblings… Many wanted to know were the Reapers came from and what drove them… So we got them, the best way we could from the alien (possibly AI as well or a mix of both – tapped into the minds of the chosen) that is telling us this story… as our memories give voice to their words. The nuances, the granular bits of history, exact chain of events including but not limited to why the angara were created, the nature of the Jardaan; (which may actually be the remnant depending on how you interpret the log ‘it’ left.)… The answer to those questions are nearly impossible to know or guess correctly. The bottom line is, something else is going on, and the fantastic part of that is how it’s been written in such a way that none of the essence of the past games will be lost. The primary characters that exist in the trilogy and Andromeda are likely to return in some manner when we all wake up and get free of this prison of the mind… and they will remember just as you do, how it all went down in that framework. I know end game credits suck; but did anyone listen to the song? Please listen to the lyrics.
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SwobyJ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 2,107 Likes: 2,175
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SwobyJ on May 27, 2017 21:24:11 GMT
Nooo, stories with virtual frameworks always suck and can't mean anything because its just a dream! /s
They have only fallen asleep... they have only fallen asleep...
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Post by djbare on May 29, 2017 7:40:56 GMT
I hope not, quite frankly I'm done with the reaper story, they're a writers nightmare, started out to be an enemy that could not be defeated, so the writers had to come up with a mcguffin device to destroy them, anyway, we know the reaper origins, especially if you've played Leviathan.
My theory is the Kett and Angara have the same creator, the Jaardan, Kett being corrupted creation, or possibly a military creation by the Jaardan that went corrupt, I'm also suspicious the Jaardan might have Prothean connections, or perhaps they are Prothean, set out the same way we did to avoid the reapers.
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turboj67
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 22 Likes: 10
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Sept 12, 2022 12:36:29 GMT
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turboj67
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by turboj67 on May 29, 2017 16:31:14 GMT
I hope not, quite frankly I'm done with the reaper story, they're a writers nightmare, started out to be an enemy that could not be defeated, so the writers had to come up with a mcguffin device to destroy them, anyway, we know the reaper origins, especially if you've played Leviathan. My theory is the Kett and Angara have the same creator, the Jaardan, Kett being corrupted creation, or possibly a military creation by the Jaardan that went corrupt, I'm also suspicious the Jaardan might have Prothean connections, or perhaps they are Prothean, set out the same way we did to avoid the reapers. You are correct about Leviathan telling us a little about the Reaper's origins, but Andromeda is our memories giving voice to their words; though in the case of Andromeda we think it's actually the AI telling us their side of the story... The Reapers are not big bad cuttlefish, they are an enemy with time and technology on their side. Please read the doc linked in the OP if you have not already. As for your theory, that is partly what we have been saying all along. Ultimately the Angara and the Kett origins are the same; the Angara first, then the Kett some time after the scourge was released by the 'opposition'... read the doc. If you listen to the log that SAM reads when Ryder goes back to Meridian, listen carefully to what was recorded... it almost talks as if it is singular and the Jardaan refrence may be pointing at the remnant - remember, we; or PeeBee, named the remnant (and almost the entire cluster knew that somehow, like 'kett' and 'scourge'), so 'the Jardaan' may actually be the name of the remnant technology and the author of the log may be the Intelligence. It's impossible to know the details but I'm sure we'll find out eventually. As for as Jardaan being Prothean, it's possible but we explored that direction and it didn't fit the narrative of the OT or Andromeda. If you go back and listen to Javiks narrative on the creation/expansion of the prothean empire; that many species joined it by will or by force (pre-remnant kett;read the doc), you'll see a link to the kett clearer than a link to this thing or species(Jardaan) that is responsible in part for the creation of life. If the protheans/kett could do that - create life - there would be no need for them to absorb other species at the tip of a gun, or needle as is the case with exultation.
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gplayer
N3
I love nailing asari. So ageless and superior -- then you get them and they squeal like school girls
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gplayer
I love nailing asari. So ageless and superior -- then you get them and they squeal like school girls
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Post by gplayer on May 31, 2017 8:37:09 GMT
I have been playing the OT lately, and it occured to me that Crucible is a dark energy weapon, and the scourge is made of dark energy. Is there a connection there? Maybe this is not the past, but the future! The scourge could be the long term effect of firing the Crucible.
Nevertheless if there was something that tied the reapers, the remnant, the dark energy in Haelstroms sun and the crucible together it would be amazing. But I really have no faith in BW to attempt that or to implement it competently.
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commandercryptarch
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: DFMelancholine
XBL Gamertag: dfmelancholine
PSN: DFMelancholine
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by commandercryptarch on May 31, 2017 13:21:41 GMT
All of this is brilliant stuff ,no doubt. I have always been a fan of the IT and I remember waiting months or years between each Choose Wisely episode...but as brilliant and intriguing as it is ,Bioware is not.Sadly.
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