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Post by akots on May 19, 2017 9:49:09 GMT
... Hence it's odd that mobile gaming and gaming in general seems to be pulling more and more fraudulent schemes out of their asses. ... I don't know what the laws are in Germany. But in the apparent EA home country, USA, there were some pretty fierce legal battles on the subject. All of them were won by the defendants. Here is one example linkSo, basically, if you want to buy something virtual and pay for it with real money, it is not illegal to sell you that. Whether you still want to do it despite you chance of getting something that you actually want is unknown, depends on you but the seller does not misinform you by stating that you have some chance of getting something that you want. I don't gamble personally, so for me the point is mute. But seems like a lot of people do and actually enjoy it even if they don't get what they want. So, I personally think, it is just a matter of time before this whole business will be regulated somehow. For now, it is one big Wild West out there. Here, government does not care yet as long as everyone pays their taxes. I think, EA is taxed in the USA, so the more money EA makes out there in Europe, Asia, etc, the more taxes are paid by it here. Now, why would US government want to ever regulate that?
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Post by TormDK on May 19, 2017 9:50:32 GMT
... Hence it's odd that mobile gaming and gaming in general seems to be pulling more and more fraudulent schemes out of their asses. ... I don't know what the laws are in Germany. But in the apparent EA home country, USA, there were some pretty fierce legal battles on the subject. All of them were won by the defendants. Here is one example linkSo, basically, if you want to buy something virtual and pay for it with real money, it is not illegal to sell you that. Whether you still want to do it despite you chance of getting something that you actually want is unknown, depends on you but the seller does not misinform you by stating that you have some chance of getting something that you want. I don't gamble personally, so for me the point is mute. But seems like a lot of people do and actually enjoy it even if they don't get what they want. So, I personally think, it is just a matter of time before this whole business will be regulated somehow. For now, it is one big Wild West out there. Here, government does not care yet as long as everyone pays their taxes. I think, EA is taxed in the USA, so the more money EA makes out there in Europe, Asia, etc, the more taxes are paid by it here. Now, why would US government want to ever regulate that? The points purchased are taxed here in Europe as well. Just FYI, I had to pay VAT.
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Post by akots on May 19, 2017 9:53:41 GMT
The points purchased are taxed here in Europe as well. Just FYI, I had to pay VAT. VAT is paid by you, taxes are paid by EA here based on how much money they make. It might be more complex than that, I don't want to oversimplify things. But it is working more or less like that.
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Post by Kazu on May 19, 2017 10:06:57 GMT
... Hence it's odd that mobile gaming and gaming in general seems to be pulling more and more fraudulent schemes out of their asses. ... I don't know what the laws are in Germany. But in the apparent EA home country, USA, there were some pretty fierce legal battles on the subject. All of them were won by the defendants. Here is one example linkSo, basically, if you want to buy something virtual and pay for it with real money, it is not illegal to sell you that. Whether you still want to do it despite you chance of getting something that you actually want is unknown, depends on you but the seller does not misinform you by stating that you have some chance of getting something that you want. I don't gamble personally, so for me the point is mute. But seems like a lot of people do and actually enjoy it even if they don't get what they want. So, I personally think, it is just a matter of time before this whole business will be regulated somehow. For now, it is one big Wild West out there. Here, government does not care yet as long as everyone pays their taxes. I think, EA is taxed in the USA, so the more money EA makes out there in Europe, Asia, etc, the more taxes are paid by it here. Now, why would US government want to ever regulate that? After a quick google search I can tell you that every state in germany makes it's own gambling laws. Obviously you can just play the system like a fiddle and register your gambling joint at the place with the laxest law and then just operate wherever. Which pretty much also explain why there are so many gambling "apps" targeted at young adults and children. Seems to be chill since they aren't playing with a "real" currency. If you have a look at "traditional" gambling you can see that research in some degree has been done and is done on how a game works and what rates you have certain events will occur. For example how likely it is to get 4 aces at poker. Now for our case of "modern" gambling it is more or less a coin flip in terms of "is it ultra rare yes/no?". Research about is hard to do because there is a lid on it and we have to believe the things we are told.
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Post by akots on May 19, 2017 10:26:47 GMT
... Research about is hard to do because there is a lid on it and we have to believe the things we are told. There is no research needed here. As far as I understand, you are buying packs for money. Packs have a chance of having something that you want, so they are not hiding anything, there is no lid from the legal point of view. You can perceive it as unfair and refuse to do it. But they are clear about it as you can get your pack with some chance of having something. I'm not sure this even fits with actual gambling, it is a matter of debate. They can sell you specific items from the packs for the right price, it does not matter. But the latter way is apparently less profitable. I would say it is more ethic. However, I have a retirement account and I know some of my shares are going to stock market to buy EA assets. Does this make my personal POV biased? It sure does, I cannot condemn the whole thing. But I also hope I can max my manifest one day. Which might not be any longer possible at all for me. If they don't play nice with their customers, they lose some of them and their profit goes down. If they are too nice, they don't make enough money, it is a delicate balance. Knowing how Bioware likes to fuck things up, it is possible that they will reverse this decision of theirs with the packs. Hell, maybe EA even does not know and once they will, some things might change, or maybe they won't change and it is EA's decision. We'll see how it goes. For now, they themselves took responsibility and pretend they are fixing some bug. This is quite a laughable excuse, it just cannot be, they are obviously lying. It is not a crime but deceiving and trying to cheat won't get you to a nice place in a long run. But keeping the mouth shut about these things does not get nobody nowhere. The more uncomfortable questions are asked, the higher is the chance that things might change for the better. So, we should post and complain and hope it works. This twitch better be full of shite tomorrow. And google knows everything, they can't just ignore one forum or the other. They have investors and if lots of people are bitching about something, they have to fix it.
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Post by Kazu on May 19, 2017 11:04:25 GMT
... Research about is hard to do because there is a lid on it and we have to believe the things we are told. There is no research needed here. As far as I understand, you are buying packs for money. Packs have a chance of having something that you want, so they are not hiding anything, there is no lid from the legal point of view. You can perceive it as unfair and refuse to do it. But they are clear about it as you can get your pack with some chance of having something. I'm not sure this even fits with actual gambling, it is a matter of debate. They can sell you specific items from the packs for the right price, it does not matter. But the latter way is apparently less profitable. I would say it is more ethic. However, I have a retirement account and I know some of my shares are going to stock market to buy EA assets. Does this make my personal POV biased? It sure does, I cannot condemn the whole thing. But I also hope I can max my manifest one day. Which might not be any longer possible at all for me. If they don't play nice with their customers, they lose some of them and their profit goes down. If they are too nice, they don't make enough money, it is a delicate balance. Knowing how Bioware likes to fuck things up, it is possible that they will reverse this decision of theirs with the packs. Hell, maybe EA even does not know and once they will, some things might change, or maybe they won't change and it is EA's decision. We'll see how it goes. For now, they themselves took responsibility and pretend they are fixing some bug. This is quite a laughable excuse, it just cannot be, they are obviously lying. It is not a crime but deceiving and trying to cheat won't get you to a nice place in a long run. But keeping the mouth shut about these things does not get nobody nowhere. The more uncomfortable questions are asked, the higher is the chance that things might change for the better. So, we should post and complain and hope it works. This twitch better be full of shite tomorrow. And google knows everything, they can't just ignore one forum or the other. They have investors and if lots of people are bitching about something, they have to fix it. I like your honesty and no I dont mind that your opinion is biased. Same goes for mine, but in a different direction. On a rational level we can agree that Bioware needs to make enough money to make EA happy which leads to the shop system we have. Furthermore if they are as clear as the law requires them to be about things like drop rates and chances that's fine too. In the end every customer has to make a decision for himself. For me crystal clear would be something like "Has a chance of X% of containing an UR charater or weapon.".
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 11:41:32 GMT
As amusing as this no doubt is, let's get back to twitchy questioning.
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Post by Kazu on May 19, 2017 12:01:23 GMT
I am motivated to work for my master at derailing once and now this, ok.
Can you consider asking this once more? After they seemingly have "fixed" the droprates again after the release of the 1.07 hotfix it's something I really want to know. Which is why I am even in a nice and civil way.
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Post by huntedhunt on May 19, 2017 12:28:29 GMT
My main question would be about patchnote completeness and version control. Original announcement (in a sticky in bug forums, not even official) had fixes for things that weren't in the patch, then got redacted entirely. Now it links a tweet that says 3 'notable' changes, which isn't all that changed that day. Challenge for Avenger and Predator got fixed (though the other common weapon challenged remain bugged). Why was this not announced too? Also something along the lines of: Wouldn't player outrage be less if the UR rate 'fix' was announced at deployment, instead of being stealth-changed and letting players spent money based on false assumptions? Also Any progress on long-standing 'known issues' such as the complete sound loss in multiplayer? Are gathered gameplay recordings useful, or is the cause known already? Data miners have observed that the multi-detonator powers Throw and Shockwave have penalties to their detonation damage. Is this intentional design or a bug that should be reported? When Player Characters fall off the map, could we have more health/shields when respawned? Currently we respawn with low health/shields, in exposed spots, and enemies rip us apart before we regain control. As much as I don't want it nerfed, you could compare penalty detonators to AoE spec charge (4b) - multi-detonator, ~5 second cooldown, no penalty. Throw only single detonates by default (or double if speced double at 6a) - presumably has the penalty due to the low cooldown instead of the always AoE det of shockwave R1. Alternative for the more health/shields is just immunity until control restored, similar to loading in first time on match in progress without really affecting balance.
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 12:52:41 GMT
(1) My main question would be about patchnote completeness and version control. Original announcement (in a sticky in bug forums, not even official) had fixes for things that weren't in the patch, then got redacted entirely. Now it links a tweet that says 3 'notable' changes, which isn't all that changed that day. Challenge for Avenger and Predator got fixed (though the other common weapon challenged remain bugged). Why was this not announced too? (2) Also something along the lines of: Wouldn't player outrage be less if the UR rate 'fix' was announced at deployment, instead of being stealth-changed and letting players spent money based on false assumptions? (3) Any progress on long-standing 'known issues' such as the complete sound loss in multiplayer? Are gathered gameplay recordings useful, or is the cause known already?\ (4) As much as I don't want it nerfed, you could compare penalty detonators to AoE spec charge (4b) - multi-detonator, ~5 second cooldown, no penalty. Throw only single detonates by default (or double if speced double at 6a) - presumably has the penalty due to the low cooldown instead of the always AoE det of shockwave R1. (5) Alternative for the more health/shields is just immunity until control restored, similar to loading in first time on match in progress without really affecting balance. (1) Yes I'm going to hammer them on that because Billy specifically stated in last week's Twitch stream (the actual voice part, not the text chat) that they were going to do better. (2) URs / drop rate... I dunno guys, let's see what they say later today. Billy did already state in the Super Official Reddit Announcement (tm) that they were looking into doing something to compensate people who bought packs during the "brief window" when drop rates were incorrect. (3) Good question, I will ask about that. They promised to make a 'known issues' list on EA Answers and managed to list... two things. LOLfail. (4) Was discussed upthread and we decided just to ask about the powers with weaker combos hoping not to trigger scrutiny of the actually good multi-detonators. (5) Except you don't actually have immunity upon spawn-in as my laggy-ass connection to my friends can attest. I have died plenty of times while spawning in.
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 12:58:03 GMT
stream will be Friday 19 May 2017 at 10 am Pacific / 1 pm Eastern / 5 pm UTC (per belated @ Bioware tweet) updated OP with new questions list, or look at the Google doc
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Post by huntedhunt on May 19, 2017 13:13:49 GMT
(2) URs / drop rate... I dunno guys, let's see what they say later today. Billy did already state in the Super Official Reddit Announcement (tm) that they were looking into doing something to compensate people who bought packs during the "brief window" when drop rates were incorrect. (3) Good question, I will ask about that. They promised to make a 'known issues' list on EA Answers and managed to list... two things. LOLfail. (5) Except you don't actually have immunity upon spawn-in as my laggy-ass connection to my friends can attest. I have died plenty of times while spawning in. 2 - Meant it as part of 1, should have been in the update notes even if it was as vague as 'Fixed a bug with pack chances' instead of devs having to react to the escalation afterwards. 3 - Game not launching got pinned yesterday too - And amazingly got a reply that Joker would check at work the next day and 'probably' merge/pin challenge threads after I PMd about it, but that was a week ago I guess it slipped through the cracks. That said, the few issues that are pinned are getting updated more than ever, but even he got bitten by the inaccurate patchnotes for 1.07, so I hope that doesn't discourage him too much 5 - Any since 1.06? Didn't seem to take any damage from an adhi grab, thought it might be one of the several undocumented changes in 1.06:
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 13:18:37 GMT
Ah, I see. I'm kind of gun-shy on the entire drop rate issue which I predict is going to overshadow everything else, but we'll see.
As for the spawn in... honestly I doubt I will get deep enough into my list to ask the 'falling off the map' question. But now that you mention it, I will keep track of whether I seem to have spawn immunity going forward.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 19, 2017 13:23:35 GMT
Do they operate the store in China, I wonder? If they do - do they disclose the drop rates?
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 13:24:52 GMT
I'm not asking questions based on some website's interpretation of a law passed in a country whose legal system none of us understand. Sorry.
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Post by Kazu on May 19, 2017 13:29:51 GMT
I'm not asking questions based on some website's interpretation of a law passed in a country whose legal system none of us understand. Sorry. But thats just one of the thing people at kotaku do. By how many enemies can a player actually be targeted at the same time? Given there are other people alive in the game.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 19, 2017 13:37:35 GMT
I'm not asking questions based on some website's interpretation of a law passed in a country whose legal system none of us understand. Sorry. No need to ask - it might help those who are trying to find out the drop rates. Chinese players might know something - I know there's at least one who plays from Taiwan and Mainland.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 19, 2017 14:24:59 GMT
What about pure consumable packs (rpg, ops packs and that) and packs that contain only booster things?
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Post by huntedhunt on May 19, 2017 14:39:20 GMT
Just thought, probably worth mentioning or at least prepping for serverside vs clientside patch notes incase they use that as an explanation. It's possible that some of the undisclosed changes in each patch are from a serverside update (like the one to fix the ur drops) that they launch concurrently with pushing the client update. Might be that they have them noted separately internally incase one happens without the other or even on different days for example - And as players we have no direct indication of a serverside change unlike the client version number on the main menu. Either way, no reason that good changes like the partial challenge progress fix shouldn't be disclosed as or even before they happen. It might help those who are trying to find out the drop rates. Chinese players might know something - I know there's at least one who plays from Taiwan and Mainland. While good to know, it may not directly help - The article I read about the law said the drop-rates were different for that region, so we've no guarantee the undisclosed would be the same as the Chinese ones. What about pure consumable packs (rpg, ops packs and that) and packs that contain only booster things? I'm sure they hinted in one of the previous streams that different packs were planned or being investigated, but they were unlikely to be super specialized I think (I recall the underlying meaning being that packs with only class specific boosters like biotic for example basically weren't going to happen, but that we might get jumbo equipment or hopefully arsenal/character packs).
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 14:57:17 GMT
In my continued attempt to manage expectations: 1. Every Twitch chat has been progressively busier and more chaotic than the last, so the chance "@ Bioware" even SEES our questions is growing smaller. 2. This particular week people will be up in arms about the drop rate issue.
So I can type words in a chat window but whether we get responses and the quality of those responses is totally out of my hands.
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Post by Kazu on May 19, 2017 14:59:44 GMT
In my continued attempt to manage expectations: 1. Every Twitch chat has been progressively busier and more chaotic than the last, so the chance "@ Bioware" even SEES our questions is growing smaller. 2. This particular week people will be up in arms about the drop rate issue. So I can type words in a chat window but whether we get responses and the quality of those responses is totally out of my hands. I believe in you and thank you for your continued effort.
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 16:52:51 GMT
Alright I'm at my post. Twitch stream is quiet, not even any bad 'professional' streamers to make fun of.
Edit: but holy crap the chat is out of control already.
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 17:07:42 GMT
Well the music for MEA actually gets somewhat decent if you listen to it long enough.
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 17:09:10 GMT
Billy & Baastian in the house. Talking about packs and drop rates.
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 19, 2017 17:10:10 GMT
Admitting pity RNG was only ever intended to affect Premiums, not Experts.
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