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Post by projectpatdc on May 17, 2017 23:51:24 GMT
This thread is for any ideas, critiques, praise, and complaints on the missions, levels, worlds, HUB worlds and open worlds.
This thread has less to do to with story and writing, and more to do with what you enjoyed or hated about any new level designs, bosses, Hub areas. The pacing and balance is fine too.
PLEASE DONT DEBATE STRICTLY OPEN WORLD VS LINEAR, AND BASE YOUR IDEAS AND CRITIQUES ON ENHANCING THE HYBRID DESIGN WE CURRENTLY HAVE. YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY DEBATE THE FREQUENCY OF LINEAR MISSIONS WITHIN THE HYRBID MODEL. Also try to keep the combat, profiles, and favorites out of this discussion.
Edit: also create your own side quest that would fit into MEA if you feel up to it
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Post by projectpatdc on May 18, 2017 0:04:57 GMT
I would have really like to have had two "loyalty missions" per character instead on one. Yes we get tasks that take us across the planets both in the open worlds and HUB areas, but I think currently the loyalty mission comes too late in the game after the player has completely dived into most of the open worlds. I think it should go meet character, embark on mission after meeting them to gain loyalty and access to their locked skills anytime after meeting them, then compete tasks for them throughout the game, then full gain their loyalty by completing the current loyalty mission in the game. The loyalty missions were a great change of pace, and it would be nice to have that balance throughout more of the game.
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Post by vonuber on May 18, 2017 0:14:43 GMT
Having finally got around to doing the Archon ship mission I regret having got side tracked from the main story. I actually think a tighter focus would be beneficial- or at least maybe have all the colonisation stuff be done after the main story (although as I haven't finished the game yet I'm not sure how that would work with the plot). It feels like two threads pulling in two directions at the moment.
I think that a bit more railroading in mission choice would help the game oddly enough.
Anyway I loved the Archon Ship level, the main gun deck was a great bit of design for example.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 18, 2017 0:26:11 GMT
The other new mission design I loved in the open world were the bases. The Kett base on Eos and Voeld, the Roekar base on Havarl, the Flop House on Elaaden, Was there anything on Kadara? All of these were great, and felt like fully fleshed out missions that existed with an existing world. But, like the loyalty missions, they were low in frequency compared to the rest of the game, and they were "a one and done" deal that never reset. There are other smaller bases and outposts, but having these larger epic battles were a ton of fun. The smaller camps and enemy pockets sometimes felt too small. I would have rather had maybe two large bases per world, and have them reset over time once you establish an outpost. I don't want a notification every time they do reset, but have a NPC at the outposts that you can speak with that will ask you to go clear them out.
These bases along with the Vaults did help diversify the open world, but there needs to be more balance out the small pockets of enemies.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 18, 2017 0:27:25 GMT
Same goes with bosses. The bosses in the game are great for a 3rd person shooter. The Architects, Fiends, Destroyers, Mechs, Destined Kett, etc were all good additions, but they are typically only a one time thing excluding the Fiends. It would have been nice to have more of these boss types randomly appear at enemy camps in the overworld as to shake things up a bit.
I also think Vehicles could have made a good boss type. Why the Kett drop ships dont have guns is beyond me. Even fighting a shuttle or drop ship on foot would have been great. Getting ambushed by one while driving the Nomad would change up gameplay and make it more fun. Giving the vehicles weak points almost like DEstiny bosses (spider tank) would be a blast.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 18, 2017 0:27:46 GMT
This also goes into random events. I wish there were more actual random events. There are some like the battles between factions but that's about it. Everything in the game is too static. Some Random Event ideas include:
-Having a shuttle shot down while you're driving across Voeld allowing you to race towards it and defend the position and passengers from waves of Kett -Getting ambushed by a Kett, Roekar, or Exile shuttle while driving -Deactivating Bombs at an Angaran camp while being ambushed in trap by Roekar -Finding an injured ally and racing them back to base before the perish -I'm sure I can think of more later
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 18, 2017 0:44:15 GMT
If the story isn't about the crew itself there shouldn't be Loyalty missions IMHO. They should just be like in ME1, DA:O or DAI where it's a series of smaller missions and otherwise the crew should develop as part of the plot like in ME3, so that each crewmate has a specific mission in the main plot where they have special agency, and otherwise they just have a lot of unique lines in normal missions.
Loyalty missions are so thorough that they actually take up a good bulk of the overall budget spent on missions in ME2 and this one. In ME2 they were actually main missions, and in this one they're often like the main missions but not essential, but because there is no overarching story about Ryder working with his team in some mission that only they can handle together, it felt like I was just meandering about in half of the missions. Cora's was good because it featured an ark, so it was actually essential to the plot in a way. Vetra's, PeeBee's and others's are too personal and self-contained and if you think about it you could've had a longer, meatier main story that felt more like KOTOR without everything being broken up into these filler arcs.
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Post by colfoley on May 18, 2017 1:27:14 GMT
If the story isn't about the crew itself there shouldn't be Loyalty missions IMHO. They should just be like in ME1, DA:O or DAI where it's a series of smaller missions and otherwise the crew should develop as part of the plot like in ME3, so that each crewmate has a specific mission in the main plot where they have special agency, and otherwise they just have a lot of unique lines in normal missions. Loyalty missions are so thorough that they actually take up a good bulk of the overall budget spent on missions in ME2 and this one. In ME2 they were actually main missions, and in this one they're often like the main missions but not essential, but because there is no overarching story about Ryder working with his team in some mission that only they can handle together, it felt like I was just meandering about in half of the missions. Cora's was good because it featured an ark, so it was actually essential to the plot in a way. Vetra's, PeeBee's and others's are too personal and self-contained and if you think about it you could've had a longer, meatier main story that felt more like KOTOR without everything being broken up into these filler arcs. ugh i hated that in me 3.
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Post by colfoley on May 18, 2017 1:39:04 GMT
Honestly as I've said structurally MEA is very solid. It's one step back from DAI and towards DAO which was probably Biowares best world. It had strong main plots with b each zone and by and large each zone had its own interesting plot.
Its a far more integrated world then dai. So maybe they just need to continue tightening the bolt. Make it to where like on Kadara make it more then just go there and pick up vehn terevs beacon but make the actual getting the beacon more connected and more of a foot wetter in the collective and outcast side plot.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 1:39:29 GMT
I've really loved the Vault design till Kadara. There is that two position wheel there that you are supposed to use to run over and then back, then lower it again... because it is not obvious I spent a lot of time not understanding why I cannot get to the last doors. I have not done Eladeen Vault on my first PT, but I heard it was worse than Kadara. So, I love the Vault (and remnant city) and the puzzles associated with them, but simpler is better imo
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Post by R'Shara on May 18, 2017 1:58:25 GMT
Said before, but, specifically, I wish viability of planets and Andromeda overall would affect the outposts and the Nexus. If you open a Science pod, your outposts have some extra scientists running around, with some interaction opportunities. Open a military pod, and you see a few more guns and barracks. Open a commerce pod and some more merchants appear.
Also have it affect the Nexus, with more and varied people.
And have the outposts start greening up (or melting down) just a little. A conversation with a crewmember or a colonist about the first flowers to bloom or the first harvest would have been a great reward for increasing viability.
Some more little homesteads and caves to explore. Having people actually living in them as viability and the game progresses.
Please, different animals on different planets. It makes no sense to have the exact same animals on these incredibly different planets.
Some more varied buildings than prefabs, for goodness sakes. It makes every colony look like every other colony. It's also inefficient not to build to suit the local environment.
Mishrava was probably my favorite "level" in the game. Having to figure the right way up was pretty fun.
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Post by isaidlunch on May 18, 2017 2:09:02 GMT
I'd rather see exploration encouraged through meaty side quests and location markers (e.g. Bethesda games) instead of being flooded with tasks. It doesn't feel like I'm actually exploring when Bioware is leading me by the nose all over the map.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 1:34:43 GMT
This thread is for any ideas, critiques, praise, and complaints on the missions, levels, worlds, HUB worlds and open worlds. This thread has less to do to with story and writing, and more to do with what you enjoyed or hated about any new level designs, bosses, Hub areas. The pacing and balance is fine too. PLEASE DONT DEBATE STRICTLY OPEN WORLD VS LINEAR, AND BASE YOUR IDEAS AND CRITIQUES ON ENHANCING THE HYBRID DESIGN WE CURRENTLY HAVE. YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY DEBATE THE FREQUENCY OF LINEAR MISSIONS WITHIN THE HYRBID MODEL. Also try to keep the combat, profiles, and favorites out of this discussion. Edit: also create your own side quest that would fit into MEA if you feel up to it As for maps: Kadara needs less mountains. That is a nightmare landscape. No map should ever be almost entirely mountains. Elaaden was too vast and barren. Too much driving to get to things. Eos felt ideal though more mobs to fight would have been nice. Havarl was too dark. Walls in all directions. Small and boxy. It felt oddly out of place. But it was a nice map but would have felt nicer if it were more on the open side with better lighting. Kadara port was not a favorite. Going from the port to the badlands was tedious. As for missions/quests: Having more missions involving Kett would be great. The main missions are pretty solid. I wish we had more of them because there are maybe what? Five? The quest with the Salarians about getting intel on the kett, that really brought up what I thought was a rather important point that was sorely missing. We should have done what we could to get more intel on them. We should have infiltrated more bases, more ships, gathered intel, learned about them since they are THE major foe of the story from the minute we arrive planetside on habitat 7. The way it is handled with the salarian traitors is comical. As if they handed over a ship of salarians and got all sorts of intel about the kett for it. The kett would just assume squash them like a bug before having a conversation with them. We should have worked with the angara more and infiltrated bases, ships, maybe captured a kett or two. Any kind of battle mission with the kett especially focused on gathering intel on them would be great. More architects but not as the final boss. The actual architect battles were far more fun that the final one I thought. I did like the mix of linear and open world because the open world, all of it was side stories/missions and they felt fitting for idea behind being a pathfinder. That whole set up I think was very well done. So well done that for me I did not even think of what I was doing on the worlds as side missions. They felt like main missions. But again I would have liked more direct involvement with the kett in main story missions. Voeld was enjoyable to me because of that. Lots to do there with the kett and it never felt old. Might be some of the best missions in the game IMHO. Lexi's side task into learning why the scavengers were so violent should have been a much larger quest. It would have been nice if it were not treated as an afterthought and more proactive. I loved the vaults and exploration of them. I wish they were even more involved with more mysteries in them. I hope for the next game we get to explore many more vaults and learn secrets about the Jaadan and angara. I hope they have secret passages and paths and rooms filled with all sorts of discoveries. loyalty missions need to be succinct. I think putting things on hold and having to check mail, have conversations, go to another planet is very time consuming and not really fun. It becomes a chore because they don't trigger well. Peebee's was the worst for this and really feels the least rewarding. I kind of want to throw her out of an airlock.The middle of the game begins to get bogged down with these. Kadara is very slow pacing to get it viable and right then you are trying to handle up to six loyalty missions where they are going off in stages. It's a nightmare. Pacing is flat out tedious there. Someone had mentioned in a post having missions in SP that are similar to the MP ones. I think something like that would be a great addition. Also, there is no post game content unless you just want to clean up tasks and some quests. Having something like the MP missions in post game might be nice. I'm not really a huge fan of random mobs on the map as they have done. I prefer it to be organized like the bases but I'll take them if it's all you get. You need to really have more opportunity for combat in the game in a more focused way rather than hopping out of the nomad and attacking little groups.
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Post by RamShep on May 19, 2017 7:47:42 GMT
My wishlist : 1. Crew - make them more interesting, more passionate. Depending on what happens, it would be great to see one or two of them leave your crew or need to be sacrificed - not necessarily Ryder choosing one or the other, like Ashley/Kaiden, but in order to achieve a certain objective, Ryder can sacrifice a crew member or the crew member decides to sacrifice themselves (e.g. Mordin). Better yet, it would be great to have one crew member get so pissed off (for something Ryder did or didn't do) that they leave Ryder and joins/forms an opposition group. 2. No more boring side quests - no more talking to one person on the Nexus, then going to Kadara to talk to another person, then to Aya, etc. for some inconsequential reward. Every side quest should require lengthy exploration, several battles, or some weighty decision. The outcome of those side quests should have some meaningful consequences, either to Ryder, to the main quest, or to the crew (recruitment/loyalty/departure/death). 3. Open world - in my opinion, given MEA setting, it's difficult to make Open World work. The only way it can work is if the worlds are mostly empty. Compare MEA setting to Fallout, an open world game. The world of Fallout is limited to one small city-size area but the area is populated with monsters/humans/creatures/doors/buildings. MEA is set is a galaxy with multiple star systems and multiple planets. There is no way to have each of those planets populated with even Fallout-sized open world (for each planet). I think the next Mass Effect game should go back to the formula which worked in ME2/ME3. 4. Crafting/customization - I personally did not enjoy MEA level of crafting. I thought ME2 had too little crafting, so for me, ME3 level of crafting weapons/armor was just about right. 5. Abilities/profiles - I did not like MEA's set up of only 3 abilities but 4 profiles. I preferred ME2/ME3. I think 4-5 active abilities should be enough. I also prefer unique abilities for each class - Adrenaline for Soldier, Tactical Cloak for Infiltrator, Biotic Charge for Vanguard, so on. 6. Main story - I thought the main story for MEA was OK. It was actually very similar to ME3. Kett/Reapers converting/exalting people to Kett/Reapers and would destroy all sentient races in the Andromeda/Milky Way galaxy. I would prefer a story that's a bit different. Maybe a secret faction (Cerberous?) of Milky Way races that want to eliminate Heleus races? Which then cause Heleus races to band against Milky Way races? Ryder would then have to choose, which would create allies/enemies on each side (Renegade/Paragon). That's all I could think of for now. Thanks Bioware!!
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Post by Sanunes on May 19, 2017 8:23:15 GMT
With what we were given I think tying the Archon to every planet in some fashion would have given the story more strength, for it would have been more like Saren for every planet we went to for the main story mission we went there because we were chasing Saren.
I don't mind open world, but I think the planets were a little too big for what they were offering. I did like that the quests/tasks on the planet tied closer to what was happening on each planet unlike Inquisition, but I think I would have liked more planets that were the size of the asteroid that was used for Vetra's loyalty mission and just had one planet that required a lot of exploration for they all started to feel the same by the time I reached the end of the game. I would even have been fine with the different planets having multiple smaller zones.
I liked the Nomad, I don't even mind that it doesn't have weapons for it feels like it fit into the design they were aiming for.
I really don't know what to say about the crafting in the game, it was definitely far superior to what I felt about the crafting in Inquisition, but at the same time it felt cumbersome and restrictive. I really liked the way they handed weapons/armor in Mass Effect 2 and 3 where you found the item and then could just equip it and mod it the way you like. Right now I have calculated I probably need to beat the game four more times to be able to unlock all the different weapons and armor to experiment around with if I wanted to unlock everything.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 19, 2017 15:32:39 GMT
If the story isn't about the crew itself there shouldn't be Loyalty missions IMHO. They should just be like in ME1, DA:O or DAI where it's a series of smaller missions and otherwise the crew should develop as part of the plot like in ME3, so that each crewmate has a specific mission in the main plot where they have special agency, and otherwise they just have a lot of unique lines in normal missions. Loyalty missions are so thorough that they actually take up a good bulk of the overall budget spent on missions in ME2 and this one. In ME2 they were actually main missions, and in this one they're often like the main missions but not essential, but because there is no overarching story about Ryder working with his team in some mission that only they can handle together, it felt like I was just meandering about in half of the missions. Cora's was good because it featured an ark, so it was actually essential to the plot in a way. Vetra's, PeeBee's and others's are too personal and self-contained and if you think about it you could've had a longer, meatier main story that felt more like KOTOR without everything being broken up into these filler arcs. ugh i hated that in me 3. Honestly me too, but having Loyalty missions like in ME3 would not have worked either. I think 3 was a bitch when it came to not letting me tell EDI to stay the fuck home when going to Cerberus HQ only then have her and the crew talk about "how good it is we brought you along EDI!" on the mission. Yeah, thanks for giving me a choice, BioWare. It was still good for its plot-focus though. Similarly Javik has a lot of unique stuff to say on Thessia which is actually optional and Thane shows up instead of Kirrahe if he was alive, as part of the plot -- it's stuff like that I mean, that's better to me than Loyalty missions in a game that isn't about working as a team unlike ME2. I think instead of Loyalty missions in Andromeda it would've been cooler if getting to the Asari Ark was a main beat just like the Salarian one, which puts Cora in the spotlight, and then the Exiles part would tie into Drack's personal agenda which would let him have a very active role (if you bring him along!). Cut out the disjointed Loyalty missions and feature them within the central arc. You have a game that's about story and companions, why the hell are they seperated then?
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Post by colfoley on May 19, 2017 18:34:35 GMT
ugh i hated that in me 3. Honestly me too, but having Loyalty missions like in ME3 would not have worked either. I think 3 was a bitch when it came to not letting me tell EDI to stay the fuck home when going to Cerberus HQ only then have her and the crew talk about "how good it is we brought you along EDI!" on the mission. Yeah, thanks for giving me a choice, BioWare. It was still good for its plot-focus though. Similarly Javik has a lot of unique stuff to say on Thessia which is actually optional and Thane shows up instead of Kirrahe if he was alive, as part of the plot -- it's stuff like that I mean, that's better to me than Loyalty missions in a game that isn't about working as a team unlike ME2. I think instead of Loyalty missions in Andromeda it would've been cooler if getting to the Asari Ark was a main beat just like the Salarian one, which puts Cora in the spotlight, and then the Exiles part would tie into Drack's personal agenda which would let him have a very active role (if you bring him along!). Cut out the disjointed Loyalty missions and feature them within the central arc. You have a game that's about story and companions, why the hell are they seperated then? interesting idea.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 20, 2017 14:52:15 GMT
The whole thing with Loyalty missions and why it was such as success in ME2 is because it was also a mechanic. You complete the first Loyalty mission and the next time you load up the squad-selection screen there's now a glowing light that says "loyal" on that character and you can change their look. You can talk to Joker and Jacob and others and ask them what they think about the progress and they'll make a comment that reflects the overall state of readiness for the Suicide Mission.
In Andromeda you complete a Loyalty mission and a prompt pops up "Loyalty earned", and you're like "what does that even do?". I think all it does is decide who shows up in the finale but that's tacked on. The finale is great and climactic and all but all the "choice" it involves that doesn't have to do with the Pathfinders or Dunn is mostly just "did you do this?" and if "yes" that thing shows up on the sidelines. ME2 unquestionably featured your choices regarding who became Loyal and which upgrades you had by showing dedicated cutscenes that felt natural to the flow of the cinematics in the final mission.
It's better to have the Eos's outpost crew show up and shoot alongside you than not to do it, but the whole narrative design of Andromeda is still a missed opportunity because the moment Dunn lands in the final mission and when you leave with your Romance partner in the epilogue are the only two things that feel like they're a reflection of the choices you made throughout the game in meaningful ways.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 20, 2017 15:00:20 GMT
The Normandy upgrade mechanic and role assignment in the Suicide Mission aspects of ME2 were far more meaningful than the loyalty part, I thought, which always felt really cheap and tacked on, even with the "loyalty or death" thing in place. Personally I thought Wrex was the only one that had something that really felt like a loyalty test.
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Post by DarkBeaver on May 20, 2017 15:32:00 GMT
Forgetting bugs, animations, and issues people had with the writing, going forward i think MEA would do well to expand the number of chars and enemies.
I never played ME3, so I can only compare to ME2, which had 10 companions vs 6. It was much easier to find two favorites, and if there were three or even four you disliked, it was still a minority.
Likewise missions. If you disliked Jack's loyalty mission, or Kasumi's, or Thane's....there were still a variety of other mission styles you could enjoy, and have an overall great time.
In MEA, if you dislike the Kett, or Angara, or Remnant, you dislike a whole 1/3 of the game. If you dislike three characters, that's half your crew.
My preference would be fewer task missions, and fewer voiced unimprtant characters and more companions with a greater variety of "significant" missions.
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Post by abaris on May 20, 2017 15:45:24 GMT
Having finally got around to doing the Archon ship mission I regret having got side tracked from the main story. I actually think a tighter focus would be beneficial- or at least maybe have all the colonisation stuff be done after the main story (although as I haven't finished the game yet I'm not sure how that would work with the plot). The main story is rather short. So you would be done within ten, 12 hours tops. Apart from the fact that I never felt much of an incentive to continue after the main story with any game. If you added the loyalty missions, there might be 20 to 25 hours of story. But some of them are tied to the main story anyway, as is the recovery of the arcs.
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