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Post by projectpatdc on May 19, 2017 2:29:29 GMT
Did anyone else feel like Bioware dropped the ball on revealing their existence? I thought I wasn't paying attention enough the first time playing through but the the first Meridian mission mentions the word "Jaardan" once. And it wasn't even done in a way where the characters pondered about it or questioned it. We're just like, "okay so the Jaardan did this...". On to the next mission.
This is my biggest gripe with the story. That revelation and how the game progresses from here has some bad pacing issues. There should have been a much bigger revelation about the Jardaan because if you missed the one time it's mentioned before Scott says "the Jardaan", you were probably as confused as I was. So the Jardaan built the Remnant, Meridian? Even with the Angara revelation, there felt like a big build up, but the game doesn't present it to make sure the player catches that the Jardaan created them. And having to catch it in a conversation later in the game is just poor.
Back to pacing, the same thing happens with the Archon and Hyperion. Why is no one hurt with no damage to the Nexus? When the hell did the Archon take the Hyperion? Wait why is Scott disconnected from SAM? How is he alive? I thought he was supposed to die since that's what we learned at the beginning of the game. Wait how does he control the Remnant? Were the Remnant created by the Jardaan? If so, why are there Remnant ships and fighters? Or Are these Jardaan Ships and Fighters?
Much confused. Still love the game, but this should all have be presented more clearly. Even the part about the scourge. We know it got deployed from the control center. Ok? How? What? By who? That whole mission felt like pieces were missing.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 2:47:38 GMT
Did anyone else feel like Bioware dropped the ball on revealing their existence? I thought I wasn't paying attention enough the first time playing through but the the first Meridian mission mentions the word "Jaardan" once. And it wasn't even done in a way where the characters pondered about it or questioned it. We're just like, "okay so the Jaardan did this...". On to the next mission. This is my biggest gripe with the story. That revelation and how the game progresses from here has some bad pacing issues. There should have been a much bigger revelation about the Jardaan because if you missed the one time it's mentioned before Scott says "the Jardaan", you were probably as confused as I was. So the Jardaan built the Remnant, Meridian? Even with the Angara revelation, there felt like a big build up, but the game doesn't present it to make sure the player catches that the Jardaan created them. And having to catch it in a conversation later in the game is just poor. Back to pacing, the same thing happens with the Archon and Hyperion. Why is not hurt with no damage to the Nexus? When the hell did the Archon take the Hyperion? Wait why is Scott disconnected from SAM? How is he alive? I thought he was supposed to die since that's what we learned at the beginning of the game. Wait how does he control the Remnant? Were the Remnant created by the Jardaan? If so, why are there Remnant ships and fighters? Are this Jardaan Ships and Fighters? Much confused. Still love the game, but this should all have be presented more clearly. Even the part about the scourge. We know it got deployed from the control center. Ok? How? What? By who? That whole mission felt like pieces were missing. They saved the Jardaan for a future installment, maybe. They were relevant to the whole story RE: vaults, angaran, non golden worlds, scourge - but who they were was left till the very end and then we got no details other than something happened and they left and woohoo merdia. There probably was damage to the nexus it was just not brought up. The focal point was stopping archon rather than wondering about nexus. Technically it was hyperion that was attacked so nexus might have been fine. Remember that Hyperion is separate from nexus but attaches for lack of a better word. Space magic is how ryder gets disconnected. It's not really explained in a meaningful way that I recall but space magic causes a disconnect between sam and your ryder then archon uses sibling for sam. Ryder doesn't die because he/she has had the course of the game to adapt. But it does seem to put him/her at risk at the time of the initial disconnect when he is on the Jardaan ship. It looks like pressing on could kill him but nope. Just makes it harder. Ryder controls the remnant with the help of Sam. Space magic. Explained by saying that you understand the way the Jardaan think or something like that (archon's words I believe at the end portion when holding sibling I think). Kind of like a cypher as best as I understood. Remember the cypher we got from the thorian in ME1 that by ME3 we understood all that prothean stuff in From Ashes dlc? So ryder controls the remnant because on some level he understands how to. Best guess is that because SAM understands how, he understands how or something like that. That's how I understand it anyway. SAM deciphers the language on habitat 7 and pops acts on intuition as best as I can tell in that scene. Remnant were created by Jardaan. They are a layer of defense it seems to protect vaults and on their ships and all remnant tech. Yes Jardaan tech is remnant. Anything remnant is Jardaan. The scourge is created from some kind of detonation, an attack that appears it was mean for the Jardaan or their tech anyway. That attack when mixed with remnant tech becomes the scourge if I understand it correctly. We don't know by who. That's another mystery. We don't know why but can speculate that somebody didn't like what they were doing. They did take over an entire system and terraform it then populate it with their creations (angara). Maybe they don't do this for noble reasons or maybe they did it before somewhere else and someone didn't like that. Who knows really? Can only guess. Could even be another race they created attacking them for all we know. Anything really is possible.
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Post by colfoley on May 19, 2017 4:02:05 GMT
I thought it was just fine...one of the things i think mea did really well is that there are mysteries and pieces all over the place. A bit here. A bit there. Side missions aren't just fun side adventures anymore. It's almost like Bioware expected people to play them...shame a lot of them are getting written off as fetch quests.
But this is the thing all of Andromeda was just building to something and the Jaardan , while mentioned briefly, there are a lot of things here and there throughout the game before and after the story that are making me go.'hmmm'
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Post by clips7 on May 19, 2017 4:48:22 GMT
Whew...i'm glad i'm not the only one that felt this way. i too was completely put off by the whole Jaardan mess. Everything just fast forwarded so fast and quickly during the end there with the Archon on Hyperion,... attacks everywhere etc. But you just have to roll with it because.....narrative... And Greysen, Excellent post!... i understood more of what happened in your explanation than what was actually being presented in the game at the time....
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Post by projectpatdc on May 19, 2017 9:51:58 GMT
I thought it was just fine...one of the things i think mea did really well is that there are mysteries and pieces all over the place. A bit here. A bit there. Side missions aren't just fun side adventures anymore. It's almost like Bioware expected people to play them...shame a lot of them are getting written off as fetch quests. But this is the thing all of Andromeda was just building to something and the Jaardan , while mentioned briefly, there are a lot of things here and there throughout the game before and after the story that are making me go.'hmmm' Most of it is fine; I'm just being very nitpicky with my complaint. I think I just expected a little more of a revelation and a reaction. We been exploring all this Remnant tech without a clue of what it is, and we finally get a brief mention of the Jardaan. I guess the battle didnt really give Ryder a chance to contemplate the information. After enjoying the majority of the game, i wanted the Jardaan revelation and the Angaran revelation to more on the epic reveal level of when you first meet vigil in ME1.
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Post by colfoley on May 19, 2017 10:10:05 GMT
I thought it was just fine...one of the things i think mea did really well is that there are mysteries and pieces all over the place. A bit here. A bit there. Side missions aren't just fun side adventures anymore. It's almost like Bioware expected people to play them...shame a lot of them are getting written off as fetch quests. But this is the thing all of Andromeda was just building to something and the Jaardan , while mentioned briefly, there are a lot of things here and there throughout the game before and after the story that are making me go.'hmmm' Most of it is fine; I'm just being very nitpicky with my complaint. I think I just expected a little more of a revelation and a reaction. We been exploring all this Remnant tech without a clue of what it is, and we finally get a brief mention of the Jardaan. I guess the battle didnt really give Ryder a chance to contemplate the information. After enjoying the majority of the game, i wanted the Jardaan revelation and the Angaran revelation to more on the epic reveal level of when you first meet vigil in ME1. Yeah. What we got wasn't even a revelation on the lines of zomg the v Reapers are intelligent starship...or...the Reapers are harvesting all organic life to save it. No...the revelation will come later.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 19, 2017 10:14:24 GMT
Most of it is fine; I'm just being very nitpicky with my complaint. I think I just expected a little more of a revelation and a reaction. We been exploring all this Remnant tech without a clue of what it is, and we finally get a brief mention of the Jardaan. I guess the battle didnt really give Ryder a chance to contemplate the information. After enjoying the majority of the game, i wanted the Jardaan revelation and the Angaran revelation to more on the epic reveal level of when you first meet vigil in ME1. Yeah. What we got wasn't even a revelation on the lines of zomg the v Reapers are intelligent starship...or...the Reapers are harvesting all organic life to save it. No...the revelation will come later. I hope so! There's so much potential which is one of the reasons I fell for mass effect originally while playing ME1
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Post by Sumerian Physics on May 19, 2017 15:56:11 GMT
I HATED the way the Jardaan were introduced. It all goes back to the lackluster toning and pacing of the story in this game.
I had zero fucking idea what a Jardaan even was. Just like OP, I was confused like "wait, I thought we were talking about the Remnant? Is this a Remnant base right? Is Jardaan a new word for Remnant that the developers just decided to throw in here out of the blue?"
It was done so casually, without any sort of interest from the characters themselves that I could literally assume they were just using a new word for the Remnant and not discovering a new God species
Man, that really bothered me. It was like the game was TRYING to insult my intelligence. Like "Ohhhh. Of Course... it was the JARDAAN! Oh you've never heard of then Jardaan? Anyway moving on".
Seriously, wth
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Post by correctamundo on May 19, 2017 17:10:43 GMT
The first time through the Jaaedan was ninja revealed but the second play through I actually scanned AND read all the things and then the whole reveal was natural.
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Post by dis_Op2399 on May 19, 2017 17:44:55 GMT
The presentation of this whole fundamental narrative arc is probably the game's greatest failing. The original trilogy played out plot revelations with such clarity and grace that you almost took it for granted.
The artificial creation of the Angara was a fascinating plot point that could've led to all sorts of interesting philosophical ramifications. Instead it's instantly put to but bed with platitudes about the Angara still being the same proud people they've always been. The original trilogy was so good at keeping the stakes high and in the moment whereas Andromeda is always lowering or smearing them, both with the overall writing and the bargain bin quippy Joss Whedon dialogue.
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Post by Pwnstix on May 19, 2017 21:58:03 GMT
Yeah I was fine with most of the ending and whatever it might have glossed over...except for the Archon taking the Hyperion.
I mean, It's docked with the Nexus, and I realize that if you really just wanted the Hyperion, you could just enter the Hyperion through one of its own docking/shuttle bays and then decouple it from the Nexus once you got to the bridge, then take off with it, so... I assume that's what happened.
But yeah, there was no evidence of a fight on the Nexus, so I assume the Kett didn't bother with it at all. They're not exactly pirates or raiders; they have a specific goal in mind and they present themselves as being very efficient, so not being your typical Viking-style raiders or battle-hungry Krogans, they'd want to avoid a big fight, and just get what they came for.
And obviously with all the sleepers on board all the arks, the Nexus wouldn't have scrambled fighters to try to stop the Hyperion. By extension, having the Hyperion, or any ark, basically makes it a hostage situation, what with all the sleepers in cryo.
So, yeah, I guess I answered my own question...but I had to assume quite a lot there--which is fine, I guess.. We do see some fighting on board the Hyperion, but ultimately the Archon gets the upper hand.
If this were a movie, the focus would probably shift to the Kett somehow slipping aboard the Hyperion, clashing with security, and then stealing it away from the Nexus and ultimately the whole endgame sequence. But, you're the Pathfinder for 99% of the game, so it only shifts to your twin and the fighting on the ark when Pathfinder Ryder is incapacitated. It's just.. I guess you have to headcanon how the Kett got aboard and assume they didn't bother wiping out the Nexus, just in case they wanted to come back and Exhalt them all. Unless I missed something.
btw: every time I hear "Jardaan", I can't help but think of Jondar from Diablo III, for some reason.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 19, 2017 22:35:58 GMT
I HATED the way the Jardaan were introduced. It all goes back to the lackluster toning and pacing of the story in this game. I had zero fucking idea what a Jardaan even was. Just like OP, I was confused like "wait, I thought we were talking about the Remnant? Is this a Remnant base right? Is Jardaan a new word for Remnant that the developers just decided to throw in here out of the blue?" It was done so casually, without any sort of interest from the characters themselves that I could literally assume they were just using a new word for the Remnant and not discovering a new God species Man, that really bothered me. It was like the game was TRYING to insult my intelligence. Like "Ohhhh. Of Course... it was the JARDAAN! Oh you've never heard of then Jardaan? Anyway moving on". Seriously, wth
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 19, 2017 22:38:04 GMT
The presentation of this whole fundamental narrative arc is probably the game's greatest failing. The original trilogy played out plot revelations with such clarity and grace that you almost took it for granted. The artificial creation of the Angara was a fascinating plot point that could've led to all sorts of interesting philosophical ramifications. Instead it's instantly put to but bed with platitudes about the Angara still being the same proud people they've always been. The original trilogy was so good at keeping the stakes high and in the moment whereas Andromeda is always lowering or smearing them, both with the overall writing and the bargain bin quippy Joss Whedon dialogue.
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Post by RamShep on May 20, 2017 0:44:57 GMT
LOL - kind of like when the Citadel was moved to Earth? The first time I got to that part in ME3 I was like "what?"
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Post by goishen on May 20, 2017 1:09:20 GMT
Hahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh. lol Holy hell.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 20, 2017 1:13:42 GMT
Hahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh. lol Holy hell.
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