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Post by Hrungr on Sept 8, 2020 14:38:51 GMT
Cyberpunk 2077 @cyberpunkgameBadlands. #Cyberpunk2077
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 8, 2020 23:56:37 GMT
I am surprised that there hasn't been more coverage of the recent comments about MTX in the online component of the game. Then I guess people are looking for the best in these new statements.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 9, 2020 0:42:16 GMT
I am surprised that there hasn't been more coverage of the recent comments about MTX in the online component of the game. Then I guess people are looking for the best in these new statements. I've been following the news on Twitter, but I've no interest in MP myself. Daniel Ahmad @zhugeex
The confusion stems from details for a separate project. Cyberpunk 2077 is a single player game launching this year with no microtransactions. Cyberpunk 2077 multiplayer is a separate project that will release in 2+ years from now and will include microtransactions.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 9, 2020 1:04:47 GMT
I am surprised that there hasn't been more coverage of the recent comments about MTX in the online component of the game. Then I guess people are looking for the best in these new statements. I've been following the news on Twitter, but I've no interest in MP myself. Daniel Ahmad @zhugeex
The confusion stems from details for a separate project. Cyberpunk 2077 is a single player game launching this year with no microtransactions. Cyberpunk 2077 multiplayer is a separate project that will release in 2+ years from now and will include microtransactions. Yeah, I have heard that from them. The problem is CDPR previous comments about MTX and now they are trying to still play the "we are the good guys" approach. They have said "No Microtransactions" or "we give a full experience" or "MTX are a bad idea" or "we are not greedy". To me its not about the existence, but how it contradicts their online comments to stay better then companies then EA and now they are doing what they have chastised other companies and still want players to think they are the good guys. Now, if they made a comment tomorrow saying that Cyberpunk will be completely free for everyone so its not like GTA or RDR and its purely supported by MTX then they are staying mostly true to their words otherwise they are showing they aren't any better then EA.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 9, 2020 1:28:00 GMT
I've been following the news on Twitter, but I've no interest in MP myself. Daniel Ahmad @zhugeex
The confusion stems from details for a separate project. Cyberpunk 2077 is a single player game launching this year with no microtransactions. Cyberpunk 2077 multiplayer is a separate project that will release in 2+ years from now and will include microtransactions. Yeah, I have heard that from them. The problem is CDPR previous comments about MTX and now they are trying to still play the "we are the good guys" approach. They have said "No Microtransactions" or "we give a full experience" or "MTX are a bad idea" or "we are not greedy". To me its not about the existence, but how it contradicts their online comments to stay better then companies then EA and now they are doing what they have chastised other companies and still want players to think they are the good guys. Now, if they made a comment tomorrow saying that Cyberpunk will be completely free for everyone so its not like GTA or RDR and its purely supported by MTX then they are staying mostly true to their words otherwise they are showing they aren't any better then EA. There was comment from a Dev the other day about companies who give themselves high-fives over how they're not like those other companies... are often worse. I barely even blink now when gaming companies take a... creative approach with the truth. I mean it's a meat-grinder crunch studio that lost 80% of its W2 developers by the time W3 launched, we already knew they weren't saints. This is also why they upped their recruiting outside their country.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 9, 2020 2:13:50 GMT
Yeah, I have heard that from them. The problem is CDPR previous comments about MTX and now they are trying to still play the "we are the good guys" approach. They have said "No Microtransactions" or "we give a full experience" or "MTX are a bad idea" or "we are not greedy". To me its not about the existence, but how it contradicts their online comments to stay better then companies then EA and now they are doing what they have chastised other companies and still want players to think they are the good guys. Now, if they made a comment tomorrow saying that Cyberpunk will be completely free for everyone so its not like GTA or RDR and its purely supported by MTX then they are staying mostly true to their words otherwise they are showing they aren't any better then EA. There was comment from a Dev the other day about companies who give themselves high-fives over how they're not like those other companies... are often worse. I barely even blink now when gaming companies take a... creative approach with the truth. I mean it's a meat-grinder crunch studio that lost 80% of its W2 developers by the time W3 launched, we already knew they weren't saints. This is also why they upped their recruiting outside their country. Fair enough, if I have to really distill my frustration its not even about the studio or the practice, but how many places just aren't talking about it and yet decided to rip EA for what they just did.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Sept 9, 2020 2:45:39 GMT
I've been following the news on Twitter, but I've no interest in MP myself. Daniel Ahmad @zhugeex
The confusion stems from details for a separate project. Cyberpunk 2077 is a single player game launching this year with no microtransactions. Cyberpunk 2077 multiplayer is a separate project that will release in 2+ years from now and will include microtransactions. Yeah, I have heard that from them. The problem is CDPR previous comments about MTX and now they are trying to still play the "we are the good guys" approach. They have said "No Microtransactions" or "we give a full experience" or "MTX are a bad idea" or "we are not greedy". To me its not about the existence, but how it contradicts their online comments to stay better then companies then EA and now they are doing what they have chastised other companies and still want players to think they are the good guys. Now, if they made a comment tomorrow saying that Cyberpunk will be completely free for everyone so its not like GTA or RDR and its purely supported by MTX then they are staying mostly true to their words otherwise they are showing they aren't any better then EA. What are you expecting them to give away for free? You buy the single player and get access to multiplayer, just like all companies do it. I'm not going to defend their use of MTX till I see how it's done, but I will say 99% of the time it's not a good way to support online. I'd like to see a viable alternative. They've got to support a live service game somehow. I don't see people griping about how they've done it in Gwent so far and that's been going for several years.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 9, 2020 2:57:10 GMT
Yeah, I have heard that from them. The problem is CDPR previous comments about MTX and now they are trying to still play the "we are the good guys" approach. They have said "No Microtransactions" or "we give a full experience" or "MTX are a bad idea" or "we are not greedy". To me its not about the existence, but how it contradicts their online comments to stay better then companies then EA and now they are doing what they have chastised other companies and still want players to think they are the good guys. Now, if they made a comment tomorrow saying that Cyberpunk will be completely free for everyone so its not like GTA or RDR and its purely supported by MTX then they are staying mostly true to their words otherwise they are showing they aren't any better then EA. What are you expecting them to give away for free? You buy the single player and get access to multiplayer, just like all companies do it. I'm not going to defend their use of MTX till I see how it's done, but I will say 99% of the time it's not a good way to support online. I'd like to see a viable alternative. Subscription died for a reason - it's too expensive and mandatory. So they've got to support a live service game somehow. I don't see people griping about how they've done it in Gwent so far and that's been going for several years. I say that because of the rhetoric that they have been spouting over the years for my problem isn't really with the microtransactions being in the product for I have learned to live with them and ignore them. Its more about how CDPR has been approaching MTX for the last few years with their online comments. I said make the MP free and independent of the game is because that is the only way I can see having MTX in the online aspect of the game while staying true to their prior stances they have made about MTX and DLC. They are welcome to do whatever they want, but then at least for me means they are everything they were telling the public they weren't before well at least for me plus being a horrible crunch studio.
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Post by Gwydden on Sept 9, 2020 13:51:00 GMT
I say that because of the rhetoric that they have been spouting over the years for my problem isn't really with the microtransactions being in the product for I have learned to live with them and ignore them. Its more about how CDPR has been approaching MTX for the last few years with their online comments. I said make the MP free and independent of the game is because that is the only way I can see having MTX in the online aspect of the game while staying true to their prior stances they have made about MTX and DLC. They are welcome to do whatever they want, but then at least for me means they are everything they were telling the public they weren't before well at least for me plus being a horrible crunch studio. Hey, can't spell CDPR without PR.
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Sanunes
N6
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 9, 2020 21:53:51 GMT
I say that because of the rhetoric that they have been spouting over the years for my problem isn't really with the microtransactions being in the product for I have learned to live with them and ignore them. Its more about how CDPR has been approaching MTX for the last few years with their online comments. I said make the MP free and independent of the game is because that is the only way I can see having MTX in the online aspect of the game while staying true to their prior stances they have made about MTX and DLC. They are welcome to do whatever they want, but then at least for me means they are everything they were telling the public they weren't before well at least for me plus being a horrible crunch studio. Hey, can't spell CDPR without PR. Not sure if its PR or indoctrination with what I have been seeing online with how people are jumping to defend CDPR.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 10, 2020 10:10:13 GMT
EA puts mtx in their SP games. It's apples and oranges.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 10, 2020 13:29:10 GMT
EA puts mtx in their SP games. It's apples and oranges. Nope, its the same thing. MTX doesn't magically change how it works or what it is because of the different game modes. It is still content that a player is being charged a buck or two for and not to mention the comments that CDPR has made in the past didn't differentiate between single and multiplayer MTX inclusions. According to CDPR MTX are "greedy" and "a bad thing" so if they are including them then they are just as greedy or implementing bad things like any other developer/publisher. As I posted above unless CDPR releases Cyberpunk Online (or whatever they are going to call it) completely free to everyone even if they didn't buy Cyberpunk 2077 then they aren't any better then EA.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 10, 2020 13:36:55 GMT
EA puts mtx in their SP games. It's apples and oranges. Nope, its the same thing. MTX doesn't magically change how it works or what it is because of the different game modes. It is still content that a player is being charged a buck or two for and not to mention the comments that CDPR has made in the past didn't differentiate between single and multiplayer MTX inclusions. According to CDPR MTX are "greedy" and "a bad thing" so if they are including them then they are just as greedy or implementing bad things like any other developer/publisher. As I posted above unless CDPR releases Cyberpunk Online (or whatever they are going to call it) completely free to everyone even if they didn't buy Cyberpunk 2077 then they aren't any better then EA. OK. Whatever. Mtx aren't EA's only problem though. It's underdelivering half-baked mess and roadmaps of future content that get cancelled despite customers paying for it. And crap gameplay too. The only thing EA is good at is show, flashy graphics and a guarantee to get ripped off by their business model. Once other studios do the same you can compare them to EA.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 10, 2020 14:12:20 GMT
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 10, 2020 16:10:54 GMT
Nope, its the same thing. MTX doesn't magically change how it works or what it is because of the different game modes. It is still content that a player is being charged a buck or two for and not to mention the comments that CDPR has made in the past didn't differentiate between single and multiplayer MTX inclusions. According to CDPR MTX are "greedy" and "a bad thing" so if they are including them then they are just as greedy or implementing bad things like any other developer/publisher. As I posted above unless CDPR releases Cyberpunk Online (or whatever they are going to call it) completely free to everyone even if they didn't buy Cyberpunk 2077 then they aren't any better then EA. OK. Whatever. Mtx aren't EA's only problem though. It's underdelivering half-baked mess and roadmaps of future content that get cancelled despite customers paying for it. And crap gameplay too. The only thing EA is good at is show, flashy graphics and a guarantee to get ripped off by their business model. Once other studios do the same you can compare them to EA. The strange thing is for me all my complaints are about the "show" CDPR puts on for the internet. The comments they made about MTX are a prime example of that, when it suits them they make all the claims that players are making about MTX in other games, but when they can add them to a game they are making they go ahead and just add it. Which also includes the false promises from two years ago where "Cyberpunk will not have MTX" which a year later they changed to "Cyberpunk multiplayer with have MTX" they never made the distinction about MTX until they decided to put them into their games. They are slaves to their investors now.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 10, 2020 16:19:11 GMT
OK. Whatever. Mtx aren't EA's only problem though. It's underdelivering half-baked mess and roadmaps of future content that get cancelled despite customers paying for it. And crap gameplay too. The only thing EA is good at is show, flashy graphics and a guarantee to get ripped off by their business model. Once other studios do the same you can compare them to EA. The strange thing is for me all my complaints are about the "show" CDPR puts on for the internet. The comments they made about MTX are a prime example of that, when it suits them they make all the claims that players are making about MTX in other games, but when they can add them to a game they are making they go ahead and just add it. Which also includes the false promises from two years ago where "Cyberpunk will not have MTX" which a year later they changed to "Cyberpunk multiplayer with have MTX" they never made the distinction about MTX until they decided to put them into their games. They are slaves to their investors now. I usually don't give a shit about show and hype. I'm sure it will bite them in the rear eventually. Until then I expect an mtx-free SP. I dont think they'll pull a Bethesda. Apart from the fideliy downrades.
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Post by biggydx on Sept 10, 2020 16:39:23 GMT
My own two cents about the studio is that I'm of the opinion that they provide a good counterbalance when it comes to monetization in gaming. While I do take issue with how much they crunch they're workers, they do try to maintain good atmosphere with the playerbase.
Really, I think the people who dislike the studio have more of a bone to pick with their fanbase than the CDPR itself. To some degree, there are those in their community who are so vocal, some of the praise can get out of hand. While it's nice when a CDPR seeks to avoid adding in microtransactions to their titles, they aren't the only third party company to do, yet they reap most of the praise. That's less to do with the company, and more so how fervent their more diehard fanbase is.
Overall, they're a good studio to have in these times. I just wish they'd tone down the scope of their games so that they can give their developers more time to breathe. I know crunch exists in a lot of different fields, but that quote from the companies CFO (after the initial announced delay) saying they'd have to continue crunching the devs for several months onward saddened me. Especially since it came out after the stories that were reported on about Anthems troubled development.
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Post by Loostreaks on Sept 10, 2020 16:55:22 GMT
OK. Whatever. Mtx aren't EA's only problem though. It's underdelivering half-baked mess and roadmaps of future content that get cancelled despite customers paying for it. And crap gameplay too. The only thing EA is good at is show, flashy graphics and a guarantee to get ripped off by their business model. Once other studios do the same you can compare them to EA. The strange thing is for me all my complaints are about the "show" CDPR puts on for the internet. The comments they made about MTX are a prime example of that, when it suits them they make all the claims that players are making about MTX in other games, but when they can add them to a game they are making they go ahead and just add it. Which also includes the false promises from two years ago where "Cyberpunk will not have MTX" which a year later they changed to "Cyberpunk multiplayer with have MTX" they never made the distinction about MTX until they decided to put them into their games. They are slaves to their investors now. "they are showing they aren't any better then EA." - we are talking about "surprise mechanics", shovelling MTX into everything, DLCs to get the real ending, multiplayer tied to SP to get full experience, exploiting audience with preorder purchases, DRM into everything, unfinished game releases in a poor technical state, etc, etc, etc...you could go all day.
Automatically equating CDPR and Bioware when it comes to customer treatment and online microtransactions is 100% stupidity. CDPR has so far been very fair and user friendly in their business practice, and they deserve benefit of the doubt ( that they will do the same with 2077). When Bioware starts doing the same, then public will give them the same treatment.
There is no "agenda" or "conspiracy theory", some people here are just plain still butthurt over Witcher III ( and for some really weird reason, even five years later, won't stop crying about it) Honestly: go see a psychiatrist. That's not healthy or normal)
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Post by slimgrin727 on Sept 10, 2020 16:55:50 GMT
OK. Whatever. Mtx aren't EA's only problem though. It's underdelivering half-baked mess and roadmaps of future content that get cancelled despite customers paying for it. And crap gameplay too. The only thing EA is good at is show, flashy graphics and a guarantee to get ripped off by their business model. Once other studios do the same you can compare them to EA. The strange thing is for me all my complaints are about the "show" CDPR puts on for the internet. The comments they made about MTX are a prime example of that, when it suits them they make all the claims that players are making about MTX in other games, but when they can add them to a game they are making they go ahead and just add it. Which also includes the false promises from two years ago where "Cyberpunk will not have MTX" which a year later they changed to "Cyberpunk multiplayer with have MTX" they never made the distinction about MTX until they decided to put them into their games. They are slaves to their investors now. That's just not the case. They were saying if they ever did MP, that it would likely have MTX. They said this at least a year ago and were hinting at it long before that since Gwent was coming online. You can knock them for demonizing MTX in general, but the context there was always about single player. And on that they haven't changed. Also, track records matter. CDPR has a much better one than EA and many others in this regard. People get mad at EA not just because they put MTX in, but that they've done it so poorly.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 10, 2020 16:57:48 GMT
My own two cents about the studio is that I'm of the opinion that they provide a good counterbalance when it comes to monetization in gaming. While I do take issue with how much they crunch they're workers, they do try to maintain good atmosphere with the playerbase. Really, I think the people who dislike the studio have more of a bone to pick with their fanbase than the CDPR itself. To some degree, there are those in their community who are so vocal, some of the praise can get out of hand. While it's nice when a CDPR seeks to avoid adding in microtransactions to their titles, they aren't the only third party company to do, yet they reap most of the praise. That's less to do with the company, and more so how fervent their more diehard fanbase is. Overall, they're a good studio to have in these times. I just wish they'd tone down the scope of their games so that they can give their developers more time to breathe. I know crunch exists in a lot of different fields, but that quote from the companies CFO (after the initial announced delay) saying they'd have to continue crunching the devs for several months onward saddened me. Especially since it came out after the stories that were reported on about Anthems troubled development. I don't like the crunch the studio has, but the best way to fight it has become known and why they seem to be having a harder time getting developers and having such turnover. If 80% of the staff that worked on The Witcher 2 left the studio before the end of development of The Witcher 3 that hurts their reputation within the development circles at least with developers that can afford to say no to a job. I doubt they will ever have a hard time finding new employees for they will get the people that want to work for the studio they have been a fan of and then those people leave. Even with this MTX situation, if the studio PR machine didn't make such a big deal of them not having MTX in their games or what they think of MTX as a whole I don't think any of the fans defending the situation would be bothering me for there are always going to be defenders of the practices of a studio. I think another factor is in play here as well though and that is the "press" where so few places even covered the fact they confirmed that they would have MTX in their games, but the same places had multiple articles about the MTX situation in The Avengers (getting away from EA). So I am not sure if its just CDPR, the fanbase, or the press or some magical combination of the three. I cannot see crunch going away at CDPR. Its too ingrained in their behavior, from my understanding they have been crunching on Cyberpunk since before that article criticizing the crunch at BioWare on Anthem and in fact when that article came out there were people claiming to be developers at CDPR and have been in crunch mode for at least a year before that for they went straight from Witcher 3 crunch into Cyberpunk crunch. So now that they have entered real crunch to get the game out they are now crunching on top of crunch. If the tweet I remember is correct they thought it was funny people were so upset at BioWare because they have been crunching longer and for more hours at that point. When Jason Schreier finally reported on CDPR crunch he was attacked by the fanbase for it. So there isn't the public demand they change and management has lived and thrived in this crunch while people who didn't like it left.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 10, 2020 17:01:51 GMT
The strange thing is for me all my complaints are about the "show" CDPR puts on for the internet. The comments they made about MTX are a prime example of that, when it suits them they make all the claims that players are making about MTX in other games, but when they can add them to a game they are making they go ahead and just add it. Which also includes the false promises from two years ago where "Cyberpunk will not have MTX" which a year later they changed to "Cyberpunk multiplayer with have MTX" they never made the distinction about MTX until they decided to put them into their games. They are slaves to their investors now. That's just not the case. They were saying if they ever did MP, that it would likely have MTX. They said this at least a year ago and were hinting at it long before that since Gwent was coming online. You can knock them for demonizing MTX in general, but the context there was always about single player. And on that they haven't changed. Also, track records matter. CDPR has a much better one than EA and many others in this regard. People get mad at EA not just because they put MTX in, but that they've done it so poorly. Then they have a serious problem with keeping their messaging straight. Maybe firing the guy who was doing their Twitter for his other comments will have fixed that by now. As far as EA doing it poorly, I am going to say I use EA too much, but that is because I follow BioWare the closest of any developer. I do see just as many people that are upset by any kind of MTX in a game because they feel they are paying for the game they shouldn't have any kind of additional charge attached to the game. That seems to be what I am seeing with The Avengers game on top of the other issues people have with it. Edit: Looking back it could also be my feelings are shaped by what the coverage of what is being said by CDPR is. I don't remember anything like you said, but the tweets and such has always garnered them being covered. So only half is what is being said is amplified to people which causes poor understanding of the entire events.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Sept 11, 2020 2:07:09 GMT
I am surprised that there hasn't been more coverage of the recent comments about MTX in the online component of the game. Then I guess people are looking for the best in these new statements. I've been following the news on Twitter, but I've no interest in MP myself. Daniel Ahmad @zhugeex
The confusion stems from details for a separate project. Cyberpunk 2077 is a single player game launching this year with no microtransactions. Cyberpunk 2077 multiplayer is a separate project that will release in 2+ years from now and will include microtransactions. I think it also arises from articles by game journalists. Due to wordings like; Cyberpunk 2077 MTX "won't be aggressive" says dev XYZ, etc. There's no clarification that the journalists were talking about Cyberpunk multiplayer. So most readers would assume that the articles were stating that SP Cyberpunk 2077 will have MTX. CDPR immediately responded and clarified again that the SP does not have MTX, only the MP.
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Post by Kymira on Sept 11, 2020 16:29:02 GMT
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Sept 13, 2020 20:09:01 GMT
To those who missed the PAX livestream.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Sept 14, 2020 1:19:55 GMT
Mike seems like the coolest guy.
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