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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 16:13:04 GMT
I'm considering another play-through of ME-1 and NOT recruiting Liara, bypassing Therum entirely. In this manner, I would go to Noveria and Feros (completing 2 worlds then opens the Virmire mission), and then go to Virmire and then Ilos.
Q. Can anyone tell me if this is possible? If so, what can happen? Does a play-through without Liara make it impossible to complete ME-1?
I'm going to give this a try, and would like to hear some feedback from those who have done this. Thanks.
Q. Has anyone played a round and NOT recruited Garrus and Wrex either? I ask this because I played a round with Shepard as a soldier and only brought along Ashley and Tali on practically every mission; and ignoring Garrus, Wrex, and Kaiden as squadmates. It was a satisfying game for me and I've earned the achievements for choosing Ashley and Tali for over 90% in two play-throughs.
Edit: Thank you for all the helpful comments! Very appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 16:16:52 GMT
Nope, pretty sure she's essential to figuring out the Ilos thing. I have ignored her till the last minute, got her, then told her everything that had happened on the previous 3 planets. Her shocked reaction was pretty great. Garrus will mention not being recruited in ME2 so it's doable, not sure about Wrex tho.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 20, 2017 16:38:10 GMT
I don't know if you can get away with not recruiting Liara. In my current pt, I did a lot of side quests and Feros before going to Therum. It wasn't until after that when I got the message about Virmire from the Council but I wasn't sure if it was because I'd gone to 2/3 of the original planets we were sent to or if it was because of Liara. I definitely liked the dialogue better when getting the Cipher from Shiala first but I think Liara still had to go back in and confirm that the information from the Eden Prime beacon was incomplete. Also, only Liara recognizes Ilos so she probably is needed.
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Post by Exile Isan on May 20, 2017 16:47:41 GMT
Finding and recruiting Liara is part of the main plot, as she is the only one that recognizes the planet Ilos.
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Post by themikefest on May 20, 2017 16:53:48 GMT
If you don't recruit Garrus, there's a line of dialogue in ME2 when he first removes his helmet. But all is forgotten a moment later when he says, "just like old times". I'm curious what those are if he wasn't recruited. If taken to Horizon, he will not recognize A/K whereas if recruited in ME1 and taken to Horizon he will mention them by name.
If Wrex isn't recruited, his brother will be the one Shepard talks with in ME2/3
Liara can be recruited after Virmire.There is no way way to avoid recruiting Liara. She is needed to say Ilos.
If you recruit Wrex, but not Garrus, and recruit Liara before Virmire, Shepard can kill Wrex leaving A/K, Tali and Liara as the only squadmates left at the end of the game. I've done that a few times.
Either Wrex or Garrus have to be recruited. Both can be if the player chooses
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 16:54:34 GMT
As others have said, there is no possible way to bypass recruiting Liara as Ilos will not unlock without her input. Basically, if you do the other 3 (Feros, Noveria, and Virmire), Shepard will say he/she has only one lead left... and that's finding Liara, so then the main plot will not advance further until you go to Therum.
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Post by yan on May 21, 2017 4:56:04 GMT
Recruit her after all main missions, is awesome, there's some funny lines with Liara thinking that Sheps is a product of her mind.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 16:04:02 GMT
Nope, pretty sure she's essential to figuring out the Ilos thing. I have ignored her till the last minute, got her, then told her everything that had happened on the previous 3 planets. Her shocked reaction was pretty great. Garrus will mention not being recruited in ME2 so it's doable, not sure about Wrex tho. You must recruit one of either Wrex or Garrus. If you have already recruited the other, you can turn down their offer to join you. There are two times when you can do this... If you haven't spoken yet to the other at all, you can turn down the first one you talk to, but then you will not be given an option to turn down the other. You can also opt to completely ignore talking to one or the other prior to taking down Fist, and then you will be approached by that one before getting onto the elevator to the Normandy... and you will be able to turn that one down at that point as well. As themikefest said... If you don't recruit Wrex or if you killed him in ME1, you will be dealing with Wreav in ME2. With Garrus in ME2, it really just changes that little bit of introductory dialogue when you does the Archangel mission (since Garrus is a mandatory squad mate in ME2).
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Post by aoibhealfae on May 22, 2017 10:14:16 GMT
You still need to recruit her in the end. Apparently she watch a video of Ilos to recognize the planet, not because she's a prothean expert. The rest of the crew will fill her in stuff that she missed including her mother's death.
Which doesn't matter really, the game still treats her the same in ME2 and ME3. Just like unrecruited Garrus bragging that he defeated Sovereign and "just like old time".
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 20:41:47 GMT
I'm pretty sure you need to recruit her . I wish we didn't need to recruit tali as it is a multi choice game but her your forced to recruit squad mates you don't want.
Meh I just leave them in their hidey holes on my ship and never speak to them . ;-)
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Post by AnDromedary on May 23, 2017 15:39:26 GMT
I do recommend that people should do one playthrough where they recruit Liara after doing all the other main plot missions (or at least watch it on youtube. Her dialogue during the missions is quite ... different.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 23, 2017 18:34:48 GMT
I do recommend that people should do one playthrough where they recruit Liara after doing all the other main plot missions (or at least watch it on youtube. Her dialogue during the missions is quite ... different. I usually get her first but most recently she came after Feros. That was different in itself. I feel too bad not to have her on Noveria but someday I might give it a shot.
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Post by caterpillar on May 25, 2017 17:48:21 GMT
If you don't recruit Garrus, there's a line of dialogue in ME2 when he first removes his helmet. But all is forgotten a moment later when he says, "just like old times". I'm curious what those are if he wasn't recruited. Garrus has a rich fantasy life which he has trouble distinguishing from reality.
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Post by geth47 on May 27, 2017 16:42:45 GMT
As many have said, her recruitment is mandatory.
In fact, Liara is the toughest character to kill in the entire trilogy.
Miranda is the hardest to kill in ME2 (she can only die at the last segment, either defending the line or going with shepard without being loyal), but also the easiest to kill in ME3 (you have to fulfil a lot of requirements for her to survive).
Liara is the only character from ME1 and 2 assured to be alive during ME3. Which is why she and Edi (and also James) are so important in ME3. Everything related to Tali, Garrus, Kaidan and Ashley is conditional. Thats is why Liara has such a major role in ME3 main story, Citadel, From Ashes. Strangely, James and Edi become more important than her in Leviathan. I guess the writing team was facing way too many accusations of favoring Liara. But come on, she was the one who came up with the theory about several cycles of extinction. It is hard to imagine that shepard is investigating a (quite) ancient creature and does not want to hear her input. Its like dealing with a totally strange disease and not wanting to consult mordin.
The only way to having the death of Liara is during the last moments of ME3. 1-She can die by picking up the refusal ending. 2-If you have low EMP take Liara with you to the last section of the game and Harbinger will kill her. 3-Do not take her with you. When the normandy crashes landed and no one will come out from the door, which wont open, leading to presume that all hands perished.
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Post by themikefest on May 27, 2017 18:18:18 GMT
In fact, Liara is the toughest character to kill in the entire trilogy. I would add james as well. I have done a playthrough with all squadmates alive and Liara dead. Unfortunately Shepard has to die for that. She can die one of three ways. Though she should have been killed on Thessia if the Leng guy stabbed her instead of throwing her across the screen.
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Post by aoibhealfae on May 27, 2017 22:48:44 GMT
If you recruit her last, its the only time when Shepard could say anything with utter skepticism to her. She only knew of Ilos from watching vids about it, not really from her decades of research and studies (on average Asari researchers themselves have centuries of studying and branching the area of their studies...). The Ilos codex itself mentioned other Asari scientists trying to do multiple expedition by using the old fashion FTL to reach Ilos. Why were they never mentioned? and I never get was why she never go back to Ilos to study the place. Its a huge big deal for a Prothean scientists, a planet with Prothean research facilities filled with thousands of dead Prothean corpses and she just put up pictures of the place at her apartment and that's enough? (another pathetic shit about ME2, no one questions why would prothean cryo-stasis themselves enmass for hundreds of years until the planet became their graveyard) This is why I really hate her audio logs on Hyperion. I mean, come on... Sara herself is a Prothean researcher for the Alliance accompanying other scientists on expeditions! Of anyone on the entire galaxy, Alec could've consult with his own goddamn daughter if he want a 101 on space archeology. ....which is another thing I like about Peebee. She doesn't even need to boast at all that she's a capable xenoarchaeologist herself. Instead she showed what she's capable of, she's resourceful, she escape the nexus just to study the system rather than asking permission to do so, she airlifted scanning equipment over the monolith just to study the symbols, she's analytical, she always provide additional details about the Remnant and seeing things through critical eyes and sometimes trade her thoughts with Ryder and making hypotheses as she goes and her entire apartment is a paperwork mess which makes her dear to my heart and she make Poc work which show a deeper understanding of the Remtech's mechanics. and she asks for more remnant tech because she wants to study it and not because she's a crazy collector. In fact, if she found out the Prothean blueprint, she would make multiple worst-case-scenario backups on the spot like a sane person would do and if she figured out that Protheans uplifted her species, instead of whining about how it broke her worldview on Asari culture, she would be the first who say "Haha. I told you so. " and provide a long list of BS about the Asari that make Cora squirm. But no, she's an annoying Shrek. Urgh...
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Post by geth47 on May 28, 2017 1:59:03 GMT
"I would add james as well.
I have done a playthrough with all squadmates alive and Liara dead. Unfortunately Shepard has to die for that."
Yeah, but James is nearly invincible in only one game. Liara is fully invincible for nearly the entire trilogy (totally unkillable in me1 and me2, and nearly indestructible in me3) , only being able to get killed at the end, and under very strict circumstances. Many of the characters can die thanks to a legitimate error from the player. In order to kill Liara the player has to be deliberately trying to screw things up.
In the case of squad-mates from me2, if you do not recruit them nor do their loyalty missions, many of them will already be dead by ME3, or die in the course of the game.
But not Liara. She is still there, still acting as the broker, still having the drone, with just some minor dialogue changes and the fact that her drell partner died.
It would have been interesting to see a ME3 in which Liara would have perished while trying to take on the shadow broker without shepard (if you did not have the shadow broker dlc for me2, or had it and decided not to do it). But I guess it would make things cost-prohibitive with all of her content becoming conditional and the new demand to create alternative lines for some crucial segments for a replacement character who would fill in for her, or redistribute her lines to Edi (corporeal or not), James, Joker, Adams...
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Post by dmc1001 on May 28, 2017 3:18:51 GMT
If you recruit her last, its the only time when Shepard could say anything with utter skepticism to her. She only knew of Ilos from watching vids about it, not really from her decades of research and studies (on average Asari researchers themselves have centuries of studying and branching the area of their studies...). The Ilos codex itself mentioned other Asari scientists trying to do multiple expedition by using the old fashion FTL to reach Ilos. Why were they never mentioned? and I never get was why she never go back to Ilos to study the place. Its a huge big deal for a Prothean scientists, a planet with Prothean research facilities filled with thousands of dead Prothean corpses and she just put up pictures of the place at her apartment and that's enough? (another pathetic shit about ME2, no one questions why would prothean cryo-stasis themselves enmass for hundreds of years until the planet became their graveyard) This is why I really hate her audio logs on Hyperion. I mean, come on... Sara herself is a Prothean researcher for the Alliance accompanying other scientists on expeditions! Of anyone on the entire galaxy, Alec could've consult with his own goddamn daughter if he want a 101 on space archeology. Sara was an Alliance peacekeeper who was later assigned to assist people searching for Prothean tech. Looking for tech isn't the same as understanding a culture. Liara was far more qualified to use as a resource. As for questioning why the Protheans put themselves in cryo en masse, that certainly goes toward support of everything Shepard ever said.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on May 28, 2017 3:57:30 GMT
I never get was why she never go back to Ilos to study the place. Its a huge big deal for a Prothean scientists, a planet with Prothean research facilities filled with thousands of dead Prothean corpses and she just put up pictures of the place at her apartment and that's enough? Dropping my 2 cents... In the aftermath of the Citadel Battle, the Council sent expeditions to Ilos (Anderson mentioned this). They would want a investigation from impartial scientists / researchers / archaeologists with years of experience. Ilos would have been closed off to Liara. Liara confessed she invested her time into her profession and preferred to work alone, thus she did not have many friends. In rescuing Shepard, she lost Feron who sacrificed himself so she could escape, she learned the SB had contact with the Collectors and likely knew why they would want Shepard, she also knew she made an enemy of the SB and the Collectors. With Shepard safe with Cerberus, her next important target was to rescue Feron; she had shown she was steadfast and loyal to those who're her friends. They're important to her. To rescue Feron, she needed more info on the SB. Given the SB's reputation, it was also likely she would learn more about the Collectors if she could access the SB's files. Hence, she switched track and became an information broker, building up contacts and support of her own network. Illium was as safe as any she could find, the Collectors were unlikely to attack her there. The one thing she had to watch out for were SB agents.
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Post by aoibhealfae on May 28, 2017 6:21:46 GMT
Sara was an Alliance peacekeeper who was later assigned to assist people searching for Prothean tech. Looking for tech isn't the same as understanding a culture. Liara was far more qualified to use as a resource. As for questioning why the Protheans put themselves in cryo en masse, that certainly goes toward support of everything Shepard ever said. Alliance Systems aren't all military either and its set in the future where military scientists aren't really obscure. Sara could have both scientific and the military training as a Alliance Peacekeeper and the way she approach Remnant tech also showed that she have training and experience in identifying and preserving potential alien artifacts. Besides most people on Nexus tend to display tendencies for multidisciplinary specialization and the Ryders are a scientific family and both their parents are geniuses. Give the twins some credits that they do specialize something other than killing things.. The problem is this line "She's got experience studying ancient cultures. Make sure the team get her research. Could be useful in Andromeda." So did his daughter who also have her own connections to studying the Prothean. I would fine be if Sara actually knew of Liara to bring about the relevance but nah... just slap a Liara cameo there with no context at all. Dropping my 2 cents... In the aftermath of the Citadel Battle, the Council sent expeditions to Ilos (Anderson mentioned this). They would want a investigation from impartial scientists / researchers / archaeologists with years of experience. Ilos would have been closed off to Liara. Liara confessed she invested her time into her profession and preferred to work alone, thus she did not have many friends. In rescuing Shepard, she lost Feron who sacrificed himself so she could escape, she learned the SB had contact with the Collectors and likely knew why they would want Shepard, she also knew she made an enemy of the SB and the Collectors. With Shepard safe with Cerberus, her next important target was to rescue Feron; she had shown she was steadfast and loyal to those who're her friends. They're important to her. To rescue Feron, she needed more info on the SB. Given the SB's reputation, it was also likely she would learn more about the Collectors if she could access the SB's files. Hence, she switched track and became an information broker, building up contacts and support of her own network. Illium was as safe as any she could find, the Collectors were unlikely to attack her there. The one thing she had to watch out for were SB agents. You also forget that squadmates don't necessarily tell you everything and sometimes they intentionally choose to omit the entire truth. Liara does have her own research team. Paragon Lost's Treeya Nuwani who is an Asari Anthropologist had Liara as her mentor and contacted her directly for advise. In Citadel DLC, she talk about having colleagues in the prothean sites who happened to teach her piano. And was it a coincidence that the Asari Councilor knew about Liara was on Therum or that she's being only one on that dig site surrounded with lava with all heavy equipment without any ride home. Its also impossible for even a project to be left completely unattended that way without any others supervising the project... which is irresponsible, unethical... what if bad things happen or she destroyed the site... which did happen... oh crap. Was she ever punished for that? Oh.. just make her a persona non grata.... to the only Prothean scientist accompanying the deceased Spectre who rediscovered Mu relay and Ilos, who mindmeld with that Spectre who experience the Prothean visions leading them to Ilos... who knew of the existence of the only other Asari who hold the Prothean cipher. Nah... just drop that Ilos shit around, and concentrate on making Liara the next Shadow Broker who occasionally do Prothean consultations as a side because her doctorate isn't revoked and according to ME3 and MEA, her research stuff is amazeballs and not even a single one talk about the Prothean dig site that got destroyed or that Liara get pwned by Javik who tell her she "knows nuthin". And somewhere in between Lair of the Shadow Broker and The Arrival and finding some Prothean superweapon and managing a galactic syndicate, she also found out about Andromeda Initiative? And somewhere during ME3, instead of like informing Shepard about the initiative's existence, she just make herself the representative of the Normandy and Milky Way to give him the bad news. Aww... *reaper horns* what next, Ryder finding one of her memory box on Hyperion?
... she's a prothean scientist when the plot needed to be. Then, she's an expert combat biotic because the game needed an Asari squadmate to be diverse who also happened to be introvert and yet knows how to kill people very efficiently. Then, she's an action girl who brave mercenaries who try to sell Shepard's body to the Collectors. Then she's an information broker because the Shadow Broker who happened to be a double agent for Cerberus got taken and she felt sorry for it and somehow Cerberus new the SB's ship the entire time doesn't stick to her head at all and she's surprised that Cerberus found the ship...again.. and again...
instead of closing plot holes and leaving it be, they kept putting her up with just another layer of bad writings with absolutely no consistency at all. Enough already.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on May 28, 2017 10:38:15 GMT
Sara was an Alliance peacekeeper who was later assigned to assist people searching for Prothean tech. Looking for tech isn't the same as understanding a culture. Liara was far more qualified to use as a resource. As for questioning why the Protheans put themselves in cryo en masse, that certainly goes toward support of everything Shepard ever said. Alliance Systems aren't all military either and its set in the future where military scientists aren't really obscure. Sara could have both scientific and the military training as a Alliance Peacekeeper and the way she approach Remnant tech also showed that she have training and experience in identifying and preserving potential alien artifacts. Besides most people on Nexus tend to display tendencies for multidisciplinary specialization and the Ryders are a scientific family and both their parents are geniuses. Give the twins some credits that they do specialize something other than killing things.. The problem is this line "She's got experience studying ancient cultures. Make sure the team get her research. Could be useful in Andromeda." So did his daughter who also have her own connections to studying the Prothean. I would fine be if Sara actually knew of Liara to bring about the relevance but nah... just slap a Liara cameo there with no context at all. Dropping my 2 cents... In the aftermath of the Citadel Battle, the Council sent expeditions to Ilos (Anderson mentioned this). They would want a investigation from impartial scientists / researchers / archaeologists with years of experience. Ilos would have been closed off to Liara. Liara confessed she invested her time into her profession and preferred to work alone, thus she did not have many friends. In rescuing Shepard, she lost Feron who sacrificed himself so she could escape, she learned the SB had contact with the Collectors and likely knew why they would want Shepard, she also knew she made an enemy of the SB and the Collectors. With Shepard safe with Cerberus, her next important target was to rescue Feron; she had shown she was steadfast and loyal to those who're her friends. They're important to her. To rescue Feron, she needed more info on the SB. Given the SB's reputation, it was also likely she would learn more about the Collectors if she could access the SB's files. Hence, she switched track and became an information broker, building up contacts and support of her own network. Illium was as safe as any she could find, the Collectors were unlikely to attack her there. The one thing she had to watch out for were SB agents. You also forget that squadmates don't necessarily tell you everything and sometimes they intentionally choose to omit the entire truth. Liara does have her own research team. Paragon Lost's Treeya Nuwani who is an Asari Anthropologist had Liara as her mentor and contacted her directly for advise. In Citadel DLC, she talk about having colleagues in the prothean sites who happened to teach her piano. And was it a coincidence that the Asari Councilor knew about Liara was on Therum or that she's being only one on that dig site surrounded with lava with all heavy equipment without any ride home. Its also impossible for even a project to be left completely unattended that way without any others supervising the project... which is irresponsible, unethical... what if bad things happen or she destroyed the site... which did happen... oh crap. Was she ever punished for that? Oh.. just make her a persona non grata.... to the only Prothean scientist accompanying the deceased Spectre who rediscovered Mu relay and Ilos, who mindmeld with that Spectre who experience the Prothean visions leading them to Ilos... who knew of the existence of the only other Asari who hold the Prothean cipher. Nah... just drop that Ilos shit around, and concentrate on making Liara the next Shadow Broker who occasionally do Prothean consultations as a side because her doctorate isn't revoked and according to ME3 and MEA, her research stuff is amazeballs and not even a single one talk about the Prothean dig site that got destroyed or that Liara get pwned by Javik who tell her she "knows nuthin". And somewhere in between Lair of the Shadow Broker and The Arrival and finding some Prothean superweapon and managing a galactic syndicate, she also found out about Andromeda Initiative? And somewhere during ME3, instead of like informing Shepard about the initiative's existence, she just make herself the representative of the Normandy and Milky Way to give him the bad news. Aww... *reaper horns* what next, Ryder finding one of her memory box on Hyperion?
... she's a prothean scientist when the plot needed to be. Then, she's an expert combat biotic because the game needed an Asari squadmate to be diverse who also happened to be introvert and yet knows how to kill people very efficiently. Then, she's an action girl who brave mercenaries who try to sell Shepard's body to the Collectors. Then she's an information broker because the Shadow Broker who happened to be a double agent for Cerberus got taken and she felt sorry for it and somehow Cerberus new the SB's ship the entire time doesn't stick to her head at all and she's surprised that Cerberus found the ship...again.. and again...
instead of closing plot holes and leaving it be, they kept putting her up with just another layer of bad writings with absolutely no consistency at all. Enough already. *sigh* This is my last two cents. Who is Liara T'Soni? Child of one of the most powerful matriarchs on Thessia, child of another matriarch (Aethyta) who had close ties to those in power on Thessia. Aethyta would have been keeping close tabs on her child albeit unseen. It would not be surprising if Tevos made a call to Aethyta and asked if she knew where Liara was. Liara wouldn't have started out alone. I would have been surprised if she did. She wouldn't have known exactly how to go about it. The only way she could learn was to sign on with archaeological expeditions and began from there, so yes, she was with research teams to rack up experience. To learn from experts. Therum was supposed to have a small outpost that players could explore, etc. Liara was supposed to be there with a research team but it was not put in. So, in the end, the devs could be blamed for this. The destruction could not be laid on Liara either since there was next to zero chance the ruins would be attacked by mercenaries or claimed by governments since there was no prothean beacon or databanks of any significance. The Protheans ruled the galaxy 50k years ago. The galaxy is an enormous expanse that one could not explore within a life time. There could be other prothean ruins as yet undiscovered. Liara could not be the only one who had misconceptions, so would her peers and colleagues. So do we all. I used to have wrong perceptions of people of different eras; ancient age, medieval age and so forth and I found I was wrong in many ways. Historians and archaeologists are perpetually finding new information, perceptions of the past are perpetually changing. I'm afraid I find MEA not ME (I have done one PT) so anything in there is non-existent to me. Plot holes. There is never a perfect game with a prefect tapestry. It never existed. The only thing players can do is try to tidy up the fray edges and mend the holes. *flips coins in the air, catches them and walks away*
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The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aoibhealfae on May 28, 2017 13:02:10 GMT
*sigh* This is my last two cents. Who is Liara T'Soni? Child of one of the most powerful matriarchs on Thessia, child of another matriarch (Aethyta) who had close ties to those in power on Thessia. Aethyta would have been keeping close tabs on her child albeit unseen. It would not be surprising if Tevos made a call to Aethyta and asked if she knew where Liara was. Liara wouldn't have started out alone. I would have been surprised if she did. She wouldn't have known exactly how to go about it. The only way she could learn was to sign on with archaeological expeditions and began from there, so yes, she was with research teams to rack up experience. To learn from experts. Therum was supposed to have a small outpost that players could explore, etc. Liara was supposed to be there with a research team but it was not put in. So, in the end, the devs could be blamed for this. The destruction could not be laid on Liara either since there was next to zero chance the ruins would be attacked by mercenaries or claimed by governments since there was no prothean beacon or databanks of any significance. The Protheans ruled the galaxy 50k years ago. The galaxy is an enormous expanse that one could not explore within a life time. There could be other prothean ruins as yet undiscovered. Liara could not be the only one who had misconceptions, so would her peers and colleagues. So do we all. I used to have wrong perceptions of people of different eras; ancient age, medieval age and so forth and I found I was wrong in many ways. Historians and archaeologists are perpetually finding new information, perceptions of the past are perpetually changing. I'm afraid I find MEA not ME (I have done one PT) so anything in there is non-existent to me. Plot holes. There is never a perfect game with a prefect tapestry. It never existed. The only thing players can do is try to tidy up the fray edges and mend the holes. *flips coins in the air, catches them and walks away* That was a gross assumption. Being a Matriarch doesn't guarantee anyone's position in the Asari society, it just show you could survive long enough without being a road kill to reach to that stage. The Asari Councillor herself immediately support Shepard's application to the Spectres simply for Benezia association with Saren through a voice clip. That was like signing a death warrant based on speculation of treason and it turns out Benezia was a victim herself. If Benezia simply have her own followers to be notable but so does a lot of Asari Matriarchs. Aetytha have her own asari mercenaries. Samara was attached to her Justicar order. Aria have the entire Terminus System groveling to her. All of them have their connections to the Asari government. Being born to a matriarch doesn't entitle an Asari to have higher status than anyone. Liara isn't an Asari princess simply for having a Matriarch as a mother, in fact no one else acknowledge her except for being a pureblood. In fact, she's fine with throwing her mom under the bus and disclaiming her association with "Benezia" to the first stranger who asks where her loyalty is. She never even fight to protect her own mother's reputation despite knowing her mom was a victim of indoctrination. That by itself is a perfectly valid personal motivation for Liara herself against the Reapers which somehow none of the writers think of using even once for the entire decade of Mass Effect franchise's existence. Even if I dislike her, I still think she deserve to be a character who doesn't solely function as a convenient plot device. What next, the Andromeda Initiative turns out to be funded by Shadow Broker? Keri T'vessa being Liara's half-Hanar sister? For a game that tries to cut it ties from the trilogy, they sure as hell hasn't stop their Liara is canon campaign.
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Post by themikefest on May 28, 2017 13:55:57 GMT
Even though the council had Ilos investigated, why would they not have Liara along to help? Or even have Anderson present just so he can see for himself? Once the investigation was over, why couldn't Liara head to Ilos to investigate? She did say, when taken on Ilos, she wanted to stay and study the archives. Her dropping everything to go after the broker makes no sense. What was that going to do in finding a way to stop the reapers? I'm surprised Anderson didn't suggest she investigate the Mars ruin. Its funny after the broker is killed, she will say "now I can help you find a way to stop the reaper". What was stopping her in the first place? She wasted 2 years.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on May 29, 2017 0:22:31 GMT
Even though the council had Ilos investigated, why would they not have Liara along to help? Or even have Anderson present just so he can see for himself? Once the investigation was over, why couldn't Liara head to Ilos to investigate? She did say, when taken on Ilos, she wanted to stay and study the archives. Her dropping everything to go after the broker makes no sense. What was that going to do in finding a way to stop the reapers? I'm surprised Anderson didn't suggest she investigate the Mars ruin. Its funny after the broker is killed, she will say "now I can help you find a way to stop the reaper". What was stopping her in the first place? She wasted 2 years. *last toss of a coin* I did toss out a possibility they wanted impartial investigators. All the notes they ever needed would be in the debriefing after. Whether Anderson was a Councilor or an officer, he was not impartial. The Council would not want those close to Shepard (Liara and Anderson) muddling up the evidence. If Anderson was a Councilor, there were other duties he had to attend to. How would it be if he was running off to Ilos and he was asked why. To support Shepard and confirm Reapers. Since the Council did not advocate the existence of Reapers, it wouldn't do to have the new Councilor adopt a public contrary stance. If he was an officer, the Admiralty Board would pass down the order that he was not to say stuff like Reapers (don't rock the boat, we have what we wanted...at a cost, so shut up). Since no one had any idea what the Alliance was doing in the two years except definitely rebuilding the chewed up Fifth fleet, it's hard to say. Hackett was just one high rank officer who seemed to cautiously support Shepard, the stance of the rest of the Admiralty Board was murky / not supportive. Hackett was the CO of Fifth Fleet so if he wasn't bounced to other duties, overseeing the rebuilding of the fleet was on his card. If the AB didn't agree with his view that Shepard might be right, they would make sure he stayed close, occupied with that important task. If Anderson was an officer, he could have been roped in to help. It might be an anchor if they're restricted but it was also be an opportunity to prepare the Fifth fleet for battle, incorporating better tech into old and new ships. Liara's belief in the Reapers return. A view not widely supported among those who knew of the supposedly Reaper (Sovereign). Not among the Council, unlikely in the Thessian government, even more unlikely in the Alliance government which publicly discounted and played down Shepard's statement after s/he was KIA. Support would be scarce, even among the Normandy's crew who were all deliberately after Shepard's demise. They would be demoralized but she could count on Joker, Ash / Kaidan, Chakwas. Even then, if they had stuck together, there wasn't much they could do. No ship, no big pockets, no reliable sources, either official or unofficial. Even if Liara tried to go to Ilos, she would need to apply to the Council (there was a official sanction research team on Ilos that was evacuated after the Reapers invaded). They would have rejected her; their stance, as I have said before, was a deny of Reapers. They would have told her there was nothing found to support that allegation so there wasn't any need for her to go. Liara's statement was indicative of her limitations and her resources in the two years. Everyone knew of the SB's ability to find out hard to get information. After trying, I've no doubt, to find a conclusive defense against the Reapers and failing on her own, the SB's network was something she could target. Feron was in his grasp, she could kill off two birds with one stone. The SB's network had existed for nearly a century and no doubt, expanded with the previous SB. The reach, the scope and resources she needed was already in place. After the Bahak System incident, Hackett probably knew there could be no doubt this time, argued with the AB and perhaps convinced them to have Liara at the Mars facility. *grabs coin, walks away* End of line.
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Post by themikefest on May 29, 2017 0:32:59 GMT
You can come up with whatever excuse you want. No effort was made to find a way to stop the reapers.
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