caterpillar
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: yangthecat
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Post by caterpillar on May 25, 2017 13:05:00 GMT
shechinah, yeah, Vetra expresses a lot of contempt for her mother, and she talks about her father with more affection. While admitting he was involved in some bad shit that got him killed or disappeared, she clearly didn't blame him (and could be said to be following in his footsteps, getting herself involved in smuggling out of necessity to raise her sister, putting herself in a position where she could be killed which would leave Sid with no support at all) For the topic of the OP, I guess what feels 'forced' would depend on your own personal experience of your father. For me, happy families and loving attentive parents feels forced because it's not what I experienced. I can't even begin to relate, and when games throw a family at me to try at wrenching my heartstrings, it fails every time. I have in one playthrough had Sara make the right dialog noises for loving Alec, just to see it and have some variety, but it never is central to her character in my mind. I can't blame Bioware for giving father's a bad name, because I was born long before Bioware existed, and I appreciate the opportunity to not have reconciliation forced on my character.
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Dean The Not-so Young
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Post by Dean The Not-so Young on May 25, 2017 14:22:49 GMT
I thought the Ryder family dynamics were done pretty well, all things considered. It's indisputably a family with issues with the Daddy- but whether that meant Ryder had daddy issues was almost entirely within the scope of the player's role playing inclination. You could play hostile/resentful- or affectionate. You might never be 'close,' but that was because of Ryder Sr.'s character, not Ryder the PC being forced into a 'I hate/resent my Dad' situation.
Vetra is another character I'd say doesn't have Daddy (or Mommy) Issues per see, or at least not in such a way that heavily define the character. In ME2, Daddy Issues were a defining aspect because they were the cause/problem/focus for the companion cast that was distracting them from the Suicide Mission. It meant a lot to them- the most important thing to find closure- that would provide for personal loyalty.
That's... not really the case for Vetra. Her parents are her foundation for an effective orphan-sis-as-mom character, but she doesn't stay up at night angsting over it either. It's old wounds, already healed. She'll never like her mother, but she's okay with that and has moved on so far that she's in another galaxy. Vetra obviously has Sister Issues- specifically with accepting that Sid is growing up- but the parents aren't overshadowing that.
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Post by gplayer on May 25, 2017 14:46:26 GMT
Yes I consistently chose the responses that painted Alec's relationship with his kids positively and that they were a chip off the old block.
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Post by colfoley on May 25, 2017 19:00:59 GMT
With Cassandra yes, with Robert no.
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Exile Isan
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You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Exile Isan on May 25, 2017 21:04:03 GMT
I never got that impression with Kaidan. His father was the exact opposite of Alec. When his mother became pregnant, Kaidan's father retired from the Alliance so that he could help raise his son. I'm sure he had some kind of job but it was one that kept him coming home every night after work. Also, his father was supportive after the events of Jump Zero. The only point of tension I could see is that Kaidan was worried that his mother was alone when he father rejoined the Alliance after the Reaper invasion. Where did you learn all that about Kaidan's father? I really do actually want to know. Anyway, it's just a feeling I got from a line of dialog when you first meet him in ME1. He says it made his father proud when he joined up. Eventually. And then quickly changes the subject. I think their might have been some friction between the two over Kaidan's military career. When Sara asks Scott point blank if he could have anybody back who would it be, he answers without hesitation "mom". That's not to say they wouldn't want their father back too, but they seem to have been more attached to their mother. *shrug* Eh, I'd say that Vetra's issues were mommy issues if they were anything. Her mother left them to return to Palaven when they were young and I don't recall Vetra describing her in a positive manner. Something about being a social climber or caring only about social status? Didn't she give her father a pretty fair shake for taking care of them even if he was kind of bad at it? I'm asking because I genuinely cannot quite recall and it's been a while since I had time to play. It's not rhetorical questions She only mentions her mother once or twice, but she mentions the fact that her dad left a lot. Especially, if you take her out with Drack (Sid and her father are what most of their conversations are about). But I think she's pretty much made peace with him leaving, which is why I said she kinda had daddy issues. I think the fact that she doesn't know why he left is her big problem. She doesn't know if he abandoned them or if he died or what.
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obatalaryder
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Post by obatalaryder on May 25, 2017 22:17:30 GMT
I never got that impression with Kaidan. His father was the exact opposite of Alec. When his mother became pregnant, Kaidan's father retired from the Alliance so that he could help raise his son. I'm sure he had some kind of job but it was one that kept him coming home every night after work. Also, his father was supportive after the events of Jump Zero. The only point of tension I could see is that Kaidan was worried that his mother was alone when he father rejoined the Alliance after the Reaper invasion. Where did you learn all that about Kaidan's father? I really do actually want to know. Anyway, it's just a feeling I got from a line of dialog when you first meet him in ME1. He says it made his father proud when he joined up. Eventually. And then quickly changes the subject. I think their might have been some friction between the two over Kaidan's military career. When Sara asks Scott point blank if he could have anybody back who would it be, he answers without hesitation "mom". That's not to say they wouldn't want their father back too, but they seem to have been more attached to their mother. *shrug* Eh, I'd say that Vetra's issues were mommy issues if they were anything. Her mother left them to return to Palaven when they were young and I don't recall Vetra describing her in a positive manner. Something about being a social climber or caring only about social status? Didn't she give her father a pretty fair shake for taking care of them even if he was kind of bad at it? I'm asking because I genuinely cannot quite recall and it's been a while since I had time to play. It's not rhetorical questions She only mentions her mother once or twice, but she mentions the fact that her dad left a lot. Especially, if you take her out with Drack (Sid and her father are what most of their conversations are about). But I think she's pretty much made peace with him leaving, which is why I said she kinda had daddy issues. I think the fact that she doesn't know why he left is her big problem. She doesn't know if he abandoned them or if he died or what. I think the reasoning for the sibling to prefer their mom coming back is because their mother died from an illness, something that was out their nature to control. Alec deliberately sacrificed his life for his entire family. It's what he wanted and if it meant their kids were aiive to figure out their mom's not dead he would have preferred it. EDIT: someone already explained it.
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Sable Rhapsody
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Witcher-ing
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sable Rhapsody on May 25, 2017 22:26:34 GMT
For variety's sake, I decided to have Ryder get along just fine with Alec. And playing Logical/Casual Ryder really does come off that way; immature, snot-nosed Alec Jr., total nerd and adrenaline junkie:lol:
If I want to see daddy issues done well, I'll go watch Avatar the Last Airbender again. Or Legend of Korra. "The worst father in the history of fathers" and all that. I'm kinda over BioWare's need to generate daddy issues as a source of conflict for the PC to "fix."
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dmc1001
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on May 26, 2017 0:43:54 GMT
I never got that impression with Kaidan. His father was the exact opposite of Alec. When his mother became pregnant, Kaidan's father retired from the Alliance so that he could help raise his son. I'm sure he had some kind of job but it was one that kept him coming home every night after work. Also, his father was supportive after the events of Jump Zero. The only point of tension I could see is that Kaidan was worried that his mother was alone when he father rejoined the Alliance after the Reaper invasion. Where did you learn all that about Kaidan's father? I really do actually want to know. Anyway, it's just a feeling I got from a line of dialog when you first meet him in ME1. He says it made his father proud when he joined up. Eventually. And then quickly changes the subject. I think their might have been some friction between the two over Kaidan's military career. That's a mighty good question about my source. I'm not entirely sure. At this point, I'm embarrassed to say that it might have been an early fanfic I read that wormed its way into my brain. At least the part about the father retiring from the Alliance to raise him. However, the part about his father being supportive immediately following Jump Zero is in the ME wiki. I don't exactly know the source of that information but I'm guessing it was in one of the comics that dealt with Kaidan's past (Redemption). About a month after returning from Jump Zero, his father offers him a beer and advice, telling him he shouldn't be too hard on himself for doing what he thought was right.
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dgcatanisiri
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 26, 2017 3:41:32 GMT
Where did you learn all that about Kaidan's father? I really do actually want to know. Anyway, it's just a feeling I got from a line of dialog when you first meet him in ME1. He says it made his father proud when he joined up. Eventually. And then quickly changes the subject. I think their might have been some friction between the two over Kaidan's military career. That's a mighty good question about my source. I'm not entirely sure. At this point, I'm embarrassed to say that it might have been an early fanfic I read that wormed its way into my brain. At least the part about the father retiring from the Alliance to raise him. However, the part about his father being supportive immediately following Jump Zero is in the ME wiki. I don't exactly know the source of that information but I'm guessing it was in one of the comics that dealt with Kaidan's past (Redemption). About a month after returning from Jump Zero, his father offers him a beer and advice, telling him he shouldn't be too hard on himself for doing what he thought was right. Yeah, I know Foundation was the comic that explored every character's background (and somehow tied Brooks into every character's background... I have words on that...), so at least the post-Jump Zero stuff is from that. So at least on the basis of that, we can say that Kaidan probably didn't have any more than the expected amount of issues with his father.
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crackferret
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: KealaFerret
XBL Gamertag: Crackferret
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Post by crackferret on May 27, 2017 8:23:48 GMT
I couldn't buy into it, either. My Sara really loved her dad; I started exploring it in a "letters to dad" thing on my Sara blog and it became one of my favorite things. The more I tried to get in her head, the more I realized that she accepted her father was a flawed but ultimately good man. One who loved his children.
I know it's just a game, but I swear I could see it in his face on Habitat 7. So much regret, and just no hesitation. He'd made the decision years ago that his children were that important. Maybe he couldn't always say it, but I didn't feel that made it any less true.
Anyway. Yeah. I didn't want that for my Sara.
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Post by Lavochkin on May 27, 2017 11:30:32 GMT
I like to RP a Ryder that revers their dad to the point that his sudden loss makes them go off the deep end and turns him/her into a very ruthless renegade(to the extent that one can be played in MEA), like if Alec were alive then Ryder would've been less inclined to blow up the Kett base/sacrifice the Angara on Vold but since he's gone as a result of the Kett, then s/he is determined to destroy as many as possible and doesn't give a hoot for any of the Angara caught in-between.
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raikas
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Post by raikas on May 28, 2017 18:01:47 GMT
I actually don't think that less loving-sounding dialogue choices were particularly indicative of "daddy issues" (especially considering some of the major issues we've seen other characters have in this series). They struck me as more straightforward, which I think would fit since it's canon that the relationship was at least physically distant and a more cynical or blunt Ryder would be less likely to do all the love talk.
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Post by laxian on May 29, 2017 3:14:20 GMT
Alec's lack of connection is still canon and forced upon the story (His lack of communication is due to his obsessive development of SAM), but I made sure my Ryder loved and admired their father, and that they ultimately felt proud of him. Bioware's continuous attempts of giving fathers a bad name have finally been thwarted. I totally did that, too (I also noticed this trend, not only with Bioware, but with society in general! Women are supported (women only programms at universities, affirmative action stuff - haven't heard of any of that applied to men, not even when they are suddenly the minority somewhere, like on college campuses in the US (and in most other developed western nations!), women's quotas (but not accross the board, no only for desireable jobs in the upper echelon of companies, but not in coal mines or on oil-rigs or as trash-workers who drive the garbage trucks etc. - fair, right? Especially if a company has 90% and more men working in production facilities (making cars for example) and who suddenly have to answer to a woman who never worked on the assembly floor herself, not even as a supervisor!)...women are worshipped (especially if they are mothers, despite the fact that any uneducated unemployed selfish and narcissistic whore can have a child because it's women's major biological function!) and men demonized (I know men who work in child-care, yes I know they might as well be unicorns (!) or the yeti, but they exist and are discriminated against! They aren't allowed to escort female children to the bathroom for example (even if they don't enter the stall itself!) because all of them are of course fucking pedophiles, right? Same for teachers: Female teachers are allowed into boys rooms on class trips while male teachers aren't allowed into girls rooms...hell, it starts earlier: In many boarding schools males aren't allowed into girls rooms, while girls are allowed into boys rooms (as if boys don't need a retreat, where girls can't be, right?))!) Frankly? I hate it, I hate all this gender-fighting etc. I hate (and don't support) any oppression and/or discrimination (note: same standards must be applied, but if a woman can handle it, then fucking let her join the Special Forces or serve on a fucking submarine or drive a tank etc. etc. and DON'T install special female quarters on basis or ships etc. etc. - have them bunk with the men! It's not like bullets in a war-zone discriminate between the genders, so why should the military as a whole do so?)! (I try to see people first and genders second which means that I don't discriminate between the sexes! If I have tasks to hand out or if I have to work with somebody, I expect both genders to do their work and not try to complain about something being "men's or women's work" (bullshit, with today's tech women can do most things men can, so that excuse does NOT fly!)) It detracts time and effort from the real dangers we, as a race, face! From islamic terrorism (which needs to be fought and erradicated - especially ISIS! IMHO boots on the ground are a must here!) to climate change, poverty, rising sea-levels, equal access to education (studying at university has to be free, otherwise the poor will be unable to afford and it's even less likely that they'll climb out of poverty...having education reserved for the well off propagates poverty IMHO!), healthcare (stop destroying Obamacare, Trump you buffoon with your dead weasel on your head! Only destroy it if you have something better in mind, which you DO NOT!...oh and stop trying to let the damned big pharma lobby control the drug prices! They are selling life-saving substances (which they often produce quite cheaply and then sell at a premium!) and that should be less of a "for profit" market and more of a "for humanity" market (it's not like they wouldn't make money if they sold the stuff at fair prices!)) etc. greetings LAX ps: I live in Germany (and I am not a US-Citizen either!), so Trump isn't as much a concern for me, but I used him as a main example because many people on here are Americans or at least know about the situation in the US! pps: Could also open the can of worms about PC and censorship of unpopular ideas on college campuses (something only women could think up, despite the fact that universities should be places of knowledge, of discourse and discussion, of forward thinking and places that are absolutely in favor of freedom of speech without exceptions, even if it means that for example men's rights activists (and even Nazis!) are allowed to speak (without people pulling fire alarms on them and getting away because it's only men/nazis!)...if the other groups on society speak up, then Nazis will be drowned out and if men were still (at least!) half of enrolled stundents than freedom of speech would not be under threat - men can (in most cases!) deal with other people having different ideas (they love to debate the merrit of them - unless they haven't been taught how to have a civilized discussion - but they aren't hurt by other people not agreeing with them - women seem to be, they need "save spaces" (I could say they need their own ivory towers where only their POV is acceptable, BUT: THAT'S NOT WHAT A UNIVERSITY OR COLLEGE SHOULD BE! Shame on all the deans etc. who cave to those stupid demands!)) NOTE: I am generalizing, I of course know that not all women are like that (especially girls raised by single fathers aren't like that at all in most cases...I've had some of those as fellow students while at school and I loved them because they had a more male approach to problems (DIY instead of "get the closest male available" if some heavy lifting was required!)), but many are and the ones who aren't aren't speaking up! Women don't like fighting much in most cases, so they let the loudmouths control the discussion (which leads to freedom of speech being threatened, men being harassed (especially at men's rights meetings!) etc.) FINAL NOTE: Sorry for the long rant, but this topic always gets me fired up
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slayer299
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Post by slayer299 on May 30, 2017 2:27:01 GMT
Nope. I have my own father issues that are never getting resolved, I easily lean into them in the game. Hell, I wanted to play up the tension MORE between them, since I see an emotionally absent parent as bad as a physically absent one. Like, there's a reason this is a well that's been tapped so much, these are issues that a lot of people walk out of their relationships with their parents with. The thing is a well is eventually going to run dry dipping into it enough and that was my feeling on the whole Daddy issues thing.
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caterpillar
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Origin: yangthecat
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Post by caterpillar on May 30, 2017 12:32:40 GMT
American women working in coal mines and in sanitation/garbage collection and other 'less desirable' fields have had to fight hard to get equal treatment or to even be allowed into those fields. It doesn't get reported on much in the media, because it's not glamorous, but just because you have never heard of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Here's a small article that has links to several sources if you are actually interested in being informed before you go on another rant. the-exercist.tumblr.com/post/105284613217/is-that-so-women-have-been-a-leading-force-in
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on May 30, 2017 23:44:19 GMT
Wow, this thread just took a laxianative, and now there's shit all over the place.
P U
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Archangel
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had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
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had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
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Post by Archangel on May 31, 2017 3:39:14 GMT
Bioware gets a two-fer with their Daddy issues trope. They get fake drama, and they get to insert...part of their SJW beliefs.
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commandercryptarch
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by commandercryptarch on May 31, 2017 13:28:07 GMT
I made sure to make all the positive-ish dialog choices when it came to Alec. I liked the guy and I would have liked if we had more time with him to explore our Ryders relationship with him.
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Post by laxian on Jun 10, 2017 16:17:08 GMT
Wow, this thread just took a laxianative, and now there's shit all over the place. P U Nice word play with my nickname, even if it's at my expense - still, I got a laugh out of it, so: Thanks
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