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Post by obatalaryder on May 23, 2017 23:59:49 GMT
So this definitely feels like one of those side quests that appears to implicate some very siginficant consequences in a sequel/DLC ,but without it being directly hinted to the player that it's potentially significant unless you actually do the quest.
It's also included under the "Agents of Change" tab in the Codex.
How many people completed the quest before the final mission, and how many of you take the Primus' deal?
For me, I took the deal. The quest reveals that the Archon is merely a general in an galaxy-wide empire ordered to exalt the Helius cluster. And an incompetent one at that, according to the typical standards of the Kett. He's apparentally the black sheep of the Senate, the oddball, the dude messing up the big plan. This actually explains very well why Archon's weight as a villian is never really given the same ominous scale as Saren's or TIM's. And why Ryder and Co. can seemingly defeat him without much experience or resources. He's not that important. He is replaceable. His obsession with the Remnant is his weakness and his downfall from grace.
You learn that Primus, his second in command, wants to completely get rid of him. And she evidently offers you a "kill code switch" that will disable her ship during the final battle.
My Ryder was a pragmatist, who had no qualms of taking any advantages that benefitted him in the larger picture, especially if it came from the enemy of his enemy and involved stopping The Archon from getting to Meridian. Even knowing that Primus is his heir, my Ryder still takes the risk knowing that Primus might potentially go after him after it's all said and done.
Both the codex entries and the dialogue on Meridian when you actually get to the switch itself, imply a deeper consequence than simply getting less enemies in the final battle. They make it incredibly obvious taking the deal is has some potential blowback.
And there's of course the awesome walk-up-the-screen scene in the post-credits.
Primus is obviously geared up to be a potential antagonist if not the primary antagonist in the sequel. Or maybe not? It's stated that the Archon's Kett forces are overstaying their prescence in the Helius cluster; that it's a practically a failed expedition for not being able to exalt the Angara properly for 75 years... A shame to the Kett Empire. Maybe Primus and the remaining Kett hang their gloves up, leave Helius for the meantime to report back to the Senate, and focous on other ventures in the galaxy.
So I'm wondering what consequence I'm going to have after accepting her deal. Ryder knowingly cooperating with Archon's second in command to assist in his fall -- which only helps Primus in succeeding his poisition -- is an interesting dynamic. Stopping one enemy to build another, and Ryder is completely cognizant of it. Ryder has a relationship with the future antagonist before they've even become the antagonist. It's a lot of interesting implications.
Is it going to work like assets in from the OT? Is it going to be a narrative consequence?
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Post by kenshen19 on May 24, 2017 0:07:15 GMT
Not a deal I will ever accept but to each their own.
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ArabianIGoggles
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on May 24, 2017 2:10:03 GMT
If you do that mission after Meridan, one of the data pads will mention something about contact with the senate being restored and that there are reinforcements inbound.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 24, 2017 3:34:31 GMT
If you do that mission after Meridan, one of the data pads will mention something about contact with the senate being restored and that there are reinforcements inbound. Okay, so definitly a confirmed antagonist.
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Post by melbella on May 24, 2017 4:54:54 GMT
I've done all 3 options:
1st game - took the deal and used the code 2d game - told the Primus to get stuffed 3d game - took the deal and didn't use the code (I think this generated 3 extra mooks for me to fight?)
Haven't done the quest post-end, so maybe I will this time to see a bit more content.
Either way, Primus may be a more concerning enemy since her purpose appears to be, as of now, the true kett purpose.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 25, 2017 11:01:55 GMT
I don't take the deal because this isn't a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". No, this is about having two enemies and one of them getting off easy and eventually returning in force. I assumed that the Primus would henceforth focus on the actual kett agenda of exultation (versus studying RemTech). I had no interest in giving her the upper hand in that respect.
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Post by melbella on May 25, 2017 12:55:00 GMT
I don't take the deal because this isn't a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". No, this is about having two enemies and one of them getting off easy and eventually returning in force. I assumed that the Primus would henceforth focus on the actual kett agenda of exultation (versus studying RemTech). I had no interest in giving her the upper hand in that respect.
I dunno....you are planning on taking out the Archon anyway, so she is going to benefit (if you succeed) whether you accept her deal or not. If you fail, well, you'll be dead or exalted, and it won't matter either way. At least if you take the deal, you get something from her in return for all your hard work.
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Post by Element Zero on May 26, 2017 2:54:41 GMT
I don't take the deal because this isn't a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". No, this is about having two enemies and one of them getting off easy and eventually returning in force. I assumed that the Primus would henceforth focus on the actual kett agenda of exultation (versus studying RemTech). I had no interest in giving her the upper hand in that respect.
I dunno....you are planning on taking out the Archon anyway, so she is going to benefit (if you succeed) whether you accept her deal or not. If you fail, well, you'll be dead or exalted, and it won't matter either way. At least if you take the deal, you get something from her in return for all your hard work.
The deceptive tactics of the kett were emphasized throughout the game, so that undermines my level of trust. From a meta standpoint, it's so easy to stomp the final mission without her help, that the offer simply isn't appealing. Mostly, I worry that I'm helping the Primus in an unforeseen way that I'll regret, if I take the deal.
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Post by Zitrus on May 26, 2017 12:36:27 GMT
I played it safe the first time around and didn't take the deal. There was this one mission on Aya where you talk to angara who were around when the kett first arrived. One old guy mentioned something along the lines of they know what you want and will offer you that. I remembered this for the rest of the game and when the deal came up it fit the warning. And as others mentioned, the Primus came across as more dangerous than the Archon with his focus on remnant tech. Both the codex entries and the dialogue on Meridian when you actually get to the switch itself, imply a deeper consequence than simply getting less enemies in the final battle. They make it incredibly obvious taking the deal is has some potential blowback. That's interesting and makes me glad I declined. But I'll test it out to get those lines. I've done all 3 options:
3d game - took the deal and didn't use the code (I think this generated 3 extra mooks for me to fight?)
That sounds like you can get yourself a potential asset for future encounters. Who knows what could be learned from the code.
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melbella
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Post by melbella on May 26, 2017 12:46:11 GMT
I played it safe the first time around and didn't take the deal. There was this one mission on Aya where you talk to angara who were around when the kett first arrived. One old guy mentioned something along the lines of they know what you want and will offer you that. I remembered this for the rest of the game and when the deal came up it fit the warning. And as others mentioned, the Primus came across as more dangerous than the Archon with his focus on remnant tech. You could apply that to Primus too, but for me, I take it to be about Meridian.
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Post by Pokemario on May 28, 2017 21:14:44 GMT
I took the deal, and saved lives in the process. Still don't get how it could possibly come bite me later.
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Post by Exile Isan on May 28, 2017 23:31:05 GMT
I don't think it's a deal that I will ever take. The Kett proved themselves to completely untrustworthy in their dealings with the angara. Why should Ryder trust them?
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kalasaurus
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Post by kalasaurus on May 29, 2017 1:25:35 GMT
I didn't take it, though I do agree with the Primus' implication that I just wasted my time on that wild goose chase to contact her in the first place.
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obatalaryder
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Post by obatalaryder on May 29, 2017 3:34:36 GMT
I don't think it's a deal that I will ever take. The Kett proved themselves to completely untrustworthy in their dealings with the angara. Why should Ryder trust them? The goal of the AI is establish a sustainable, prosperous world. Meridian is the key to that. The Archon is merely something in the way. The Kett isn't Ryder's obsession. Meridian is. Compare Shepard's vigilance to taking down Saren (being the purpose of the game) to Ryder's duty to pathfinding a home for humanity ( the purpose of the game, which has nothing to do with The Archon specifically). And you notice Bioware did this purposely. The Archon isn't a big, overly powered being, he's just a general that has a hobby in Remnant technology. And he just happens to obstruct your goal. (On a grander level, defeating the Archon isn't actually all that impressive). So my pragmatic Ryder was fond of anything that allowed him to get to Meridian (which isnt guarateed in-universe) faster and easier than presented. Anything that tore down the obstacles to getting Meridian Ryder takes it. Ryder takes his chances with the devil because getting past Archon's forces isn't a guarantee and him failing to get to Meridian is not something he is willing to give a percentage of failure. "Fine, anything that'll help me kill the Archon". Short term, it's just a good deal. A whole ship led by Primus is disabled in the fight. Primus becomes lead general either way. I also made my Ryder take Saelen's intel on the Kett. (From a metagaming perspective it adds lore to the Kett I couldn't have found otherwise in the game). But my Ryder also takes the data because of its plain valuable insight. the intel might actually assist in a strategy against the kett in a future sequel. Also the Remnant device over Kalinda
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Post by beholderess on Jun 4, 2017 0:21:09 GMT
I always accept the deal, because I can't see any downside to it. All that Primus (also, shouldn't she be Prima? ) wants from us is to take down the Archon, and the only way we won't benefit her is if we won't take down the Archon, which is obviously not an option. She offers her noninterference in exchange for nothing. However, the fact that I cannot see the downside scares me. Because there has to be one. The journal explicitly calls it "deal with a devil". So it has to bite us in the ass. The question is - how? Semi-related, on the topic of kett and biting in the ass. I wonder why the kett we see in the game are so stupid/obvious/reveal their hand right away? From what we hear about them, it used to be their MO to initially pretend to be friendly, and to be manipulative. Why didn't they ever try to pull something like that on the Initiative? Is it because the Archon is in charge, and he is obsessed?
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Post by beholderess on Jun 4, 2017 0:24:31 GMT
I don't think it's a deal that I will ever take. The Kett proved themselves to completely untrustworthy in their dealings with the angara. Why should Ryder trust them? That's something I don't understand - why the kett never approached the Initiative with any kind of deal in the first place? From what we hear, it was their MO, and yet with the Initiative they reveal their hand right away without even attempting to deceive them
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Post by kalasaurus on Jun 4, 2017 2:19:38 GMT
I always accept the deal, because I can't see any downside to it. All that Primus (also, shouldn't she be Prima? ) wants from us is to take down the Archon, and the only way we won't benefit her is if we won't take down the Archon, which is obviously not an option. She offers her noninterference in exchange for nothing. However, the fact that I cannot see the downside scares me. Because there has to be one. The journal explicitly calls it "deal with a devil". So it has to bite us in the ass. The question is - how? Semi-related, on the topic of kett and biting in the ass. I wonder why the kett we see in the game are so stupid/obvious/reveal their hand right away? From what we hear about them, it used to be their MO to initially pretend to be friendly, and to be manipulative. Why didn't they ever try to pull something like that on the Initiative? Is it because the Archon is in charge, and he is obsessed? It would have been interesting if the kett tried to manipulate the Initiative against the angara somehow, but I'm not sure how that would have been implemented without being obvious. It also doesn't help that they were deliberately designed to look evil and the angara designed to look nice (aesthetics/appearances count for a lot).
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geralt
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Post by geralt on Jun 4, 2017 15:25:54 GMT
The thing I didn't get, and I felt it would have been an interesting twist, is if you take the deal & use the kill-switch. Then why not the option to have the now helpless ship(s) blown out of the sky, & take out 2 birds with 1 stone? My memory of the final bits are a bit foggy having not played it in a few weeks, so I'll happily stand to be corrected on the details.
Potential opportunity missed to add an extra layer to the situation. You could have opted to take the deal and then take out the Primus while they were disabled, or let her leave but making it clear to her you could have done it, and chose not. Therefore making it a potential olive branch to muddy the Kett waters a bit for when they do return, at least planting the seed of making the situation a bit less black & white.
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Post by Beerfish on Jun 6, 2017 14:16:05 GMT
I took the deal with the clear idea of double crossing the guy at my 1st opportunity and to sow seeds of discontent in the kett.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Jun 7, 2017 20:08:33 GMT
What did she actually want in return? I found her offer more confusing than anything else. If I'm supposed to turn a blind eye to her continuing to abduct and exalt people, that's an easy and definite no. And if she doesn't really want anything in return and simply wants to undermine the Archon, why doesn't she just defect and stop following his orders?
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Post by tjmitchem on Jun 7, 2017 21:55:46 GMT
why doesn't she just defect and stop following his orders? I don't see the Archon taking that very well.
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Post by dazk on Jun 14, 2017 0:27:35 GMT
I always took the deal first 4 times I played but once didn't see the console to input the code, twice input the code and 4th time got to the doors and couldn't be bothered to go back and input the code. I didn't really notice any difference in combat in any of those situations.
Yesterday for the first time I said no so am keen to see what difference it makes.
In terms of impact I can't see how it will make too much difference in terms of any DLC or a sequel as the Archon dies either way and the primus clearly just wants to get on exalting everyone in Heleus and would of course restore comm's to the Senate.
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Post by Archangel on Jun 14, 2017 3:31:03 GMT
The Kett just need to go away, they are not even remotely compelling as a main villain. I'm still assuming the real big bad is whatever released the scourge. The Kett need to be relegated to collector level at best...but even the collectors were more interesting.
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Post by pipip on Jun 14, 2017 16:46:02 GMT
I had Jaal with me when the Primus made the offer, and I didn't want to piss him off (he really whined about the Primus). So I passed on the offer.
I'd hate the cluster to find out that I had made a deal with Kett anyway. That sounds like a decision that could cost you support in the future. And I didn't have any trouble defeating the archon without the Primus' support anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 15:51:59 GMT
Refused the deal and will always do that. Better to pay now the extra price than to suffer some future consequence that might put in question the leadership of the Nexus. Plus Primus is not any better than the Archon, both want exaltation of our races. Both are enemies. I see no advantage in having a deal with Primus on the contrary she is even more dangerous to us because the only thing she cares for is exaltation.
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