aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
1157
0
1,190
aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by aoibhealfae on Dec 6, 2017 11:11:55 GMT
Shepard was totally disapproving when Conrad reveal that he made a Shepard shrine... and yet when Liara does it, its not creepy because it just shows how she completely adores you... ... Funnily, I nearly burn down my kitchen yesterday while trying to reply someone who think I'm too "cold" that I don't appreciate Liara's affections. There's multiple love interests to choose from, its an RPG, everyone have preferences but these things with Liara really shouldn't be a default state of the games. I wished the game and the trilogy fandom isn't about LIs versus each other...
|
|
N7Valentine
N2
We'll bang, ok?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 106 Likes: 223
inherit
9304
0
223
N7Valentine
We'll bang, ok?
106
Sept 5, 2017 18:54:54 GMT
September 2017
n7valentine
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by N7Valentine on Dec 6, 2017 11:21:00 GMT
Yeeeeeeeeeah. The way Liara acts about Kaidan (and Ashley) is REALLY unpleasant. Like bad enough that it's clearly rooted in jealousy (over someone who, in three games, may never make any kind of overtures towards her, meaning her jealousy is over a relationship ENTIRELY IN HER OWN HEAD), but... Like, first of all, Kaidan/Ashley don't believe Shepard on Horizon? Well, maybe they'd have been more receptive if Liara had made them at all aware of her one-woman crusade to recover Shepard's body, or how she'd handed them over to Cerberus for them to perform their Frankensteinian mad science. Lock someone out of the loop, it's not surprising they have a bad reaction when they stumble across things. So if you want to call them short-sighted for being BLINDSIDED, maybe let them in on the secret, instead of literally keeping it solely to yourself in the name of... Honestly? It comes across as her keeping it silent so that she can get her place cemented in Shepard's life, in that literally, they would not be alive without her. It's gross and manipulative, and yet the game clearly wants to frame it as 'she's so loving and loyal, do you love Liara yet, player? We'll give you five more chances to love her, just to be sure!' Then there's her remark on Mars about how they've 'become' capable. I'm sorry, who was it, again, that flared blue for like three seconds before ducking under a console, while Kaidan/Ashley were fighting a krogan battlemaster? They were already 'capable' in ME1. LIARA is the one who turned from an archeologist to a wanna-be asari commando. That line doesn't even SOUND like Liara, who SHOULD be commenting about how they're holding together considering Earth, but NOOOOOOOO... The writing just HAS to tear down Kaidan/Ashley in order to prop up Liara. Seriously, I find so much more meaning in Ashley/Kaidan coming to trust Shepard again, Shepard trying to earn their trust, than in Liara's eternal devotion to Shepard. Well said my friend, well said You brought up every point why I dislike Liara the most. I get it, Kaidan and Ash can die on Virmire, so they had to go with Generic Staple Female LI , Mary Sue you cannot kill because of plot shield Liara but they could've tied the VS into the plot when Liara decided to recover Shep's body but nope, we had to have unnecessary forced drama in ME2 because of her and then she acuses them of not looking at the bigger picture? Bitch, please! But I'm glad to see that people on BSN at least dislike her here too Liara gets away with too much because she pulls off her loyal, cutesy girlfriend shtick when in reality I find her manipulative and acts as if she has an ownership over Shepard, when I never choosed her for either of my Shepards (BroShep has Ash and my Femshep has Kaidan because those are my favorites). Oh and that remark on Mars, you've mentioned...I was really inclined to smack that bitch because Kaidan and Ash were already capable and badass more than her sorry ass could have ever wished for. Anyway, Liara gets away with too much and she's never really punished for her actions (Well, at least Javik trolls her, so that's something!). I really don't like her because her entire persona revolves around Shepard, whereas Kaidan and Ash have at least a story outside of him/her. Hell, If I was in charge of the writing, she'd be the first to bite the dust and/or would have given the option to sacrifice Liara to save Kaidan and Ash instead! She's a prime example of a character being a writer's pet: Gets away without getting any punishment!
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Nov 28, 2024 18:33:13 GMT
26,318
themikefest
15,641
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Dec 6, 2017 23:00:23 GMT
Liara. Can't spell the name without liar.
If it wasn't for Cerberus, she wasn't going to do anything about making any effort to find Shepard's corpse. The only thing she actually did was give the corpse to Cerberus. I would be curious what her answer would if Shepard had the opportunity to ask her why she made no attempt to tell anyone that Cerberus has Shepard's body. Just tell the Alliance. Let them be the ones to tell A/K, if they choose, and tell Mrs. Shepard, for the ones that play a spacer Shepard. I would be curious how different the scene would be had A/K known Shepard's body was in Cerberus hands.
I agree with what is said about her saying A/K is capable. I laughed. She may want to take her own advice, but she can't because she is not squadmate material. The trilogy proves a number of times that she isn't.
Another is when fighting Cerberus, on Mars, she will say, You're going to need more than guns to defeat them Shepard. Really? At the time I was playing a soldier. So what I did was shoot the Cerberus guys dead. What were you saying asari? She will also say she can use singularity. Ok. Don't let me stop you. Wait a minute. Shepard is suppose to hold her hand.
Another thing that bothers me is that Shepard can say she/he will throw the asari in the volcano, but that is completely ignored in ME2/3.
Too bad there wasn't an option for Shepard to tell A/K, in ME3, that it was T'soni that gave his/her corpse to Cerberus. Imagine what the reaction would be? I have a good idea what Ashley would do. Not sure what Kaidan would do
There was cut content in ME3 that the player could choose between saving T'soni or A/K. Too bad it wasn't in the game. Maybe if/when they remake ME3 it might be put in.
|
|
L2 Sentinel
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Posts: 186 Likes: 511
inherit
4010
0
511
L2 Sentinel
186
March 2017
l2sentinel
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by L2 Sentinel on Dec 6, 2017 23:50:47 GMT
One of the things that really bothered me was after the failure on Thessia. The whole ship gets quiet and everyone is walking on eggshells because Liara is upset. We act as though Earth and Palaven haven't already been hit. Maybe I would have been more sympathetic if the asari cooperated from the beginning. Besides, the failure at Thessia was a tough loss for my Shepard, too. I wanted Kaidan to come cheer me up. But instead I was forced to coddle Liara.
Also, during the final dialogue scenes with each of the squadmates in London, I always refuse Liara's "gift," and it hurts her feelings. If she knew me as well as she thought she did, she'd know I hate the creepy asari mindmeld. That "gift" is more about her making herself feel better than doing something nice for me. The game tries to make me feel bad about refusing it, like Liara and I are so close that I should want her invading my brain.
Those are just two of many scenes where I feel like the game assumes Liara and my Shepard are closer than we really are. I recruited Liara so late in ME1 that we barely even talked. All she did was point us to Ilos. In ME2, I helped her a bit on Illium, but I didn't do Lair of the Shadow Broker. So when ME3 rolls around and she starts acting like we are sooooo close, it comes out of nowhere. I have to admit that I do get some satisfaction when she laments about never being picked to go on missions during the Citadel DLC. If she wasn't so clingy I would feel more comfortable around her. Besides, she's a mandatory squadmember for plenty of missions already so when it comes time to picking my third team member, she loses priority to characters that haven't gone on a mission in a while.I take Kaidan everywhere, and the third spot rotates unless the mission seems like something that really suits a certain character. And I take Wrex as the citadel because it's his only chance to be part of the squad again.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Dec 7, 2017 3:54:01 GMT
One of the things that really bothered me was after the failure on Thessia. The whole ship gets quiet and everyone is walking on eggshells because Liara is upset. We act as though Earth and Palaven haven't already been hit. Maybe I would have been more sympathetic if the asari cooperated from the beginning. Besides, the failure at Thessia was a tough loss for my Shepard, too. I wanted Kaidan to come cheer me up. But instead I was forced to coddle Liara. It wasn't Liara that was at issue here. The main problem was that they lost the Prothean VI, meaning they could not complete the Crucible. That's why Shepard was so upset. As to why Tali and Garrus might be concerned about Liara, it might be because they consider her a friend. Despite their own problems, they still have empathy for a friend. And that's all I've got to say about this. I suggest continued discussion of Liara move to her own thread.
|
|
aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
1157
0
1,190
aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by aoibhealfae on Dec 7, 2017 16:17:56 GMT
I think what's matter was whether you accept the person was genuinely having sympathy and feeling empathy... or not. But I won't lie, I do dislike Liara but I will only comment on her in-game reception within the context of Shepard having a close relationship with Kaidan.
If you choose to.... Liara have an extra scene in Starboard Cabin if A/K was killed... which also have the same narrative "A/K should've trusted you and now they're dead and you're not at fault Shepard". Even Garrus was quite gungho about gunning down A/K that he have a scene in front of the memorial reserved just to ask if you're willing to kill them and if you did, to comfort and justify that you're right for killing them... *wince* and both characters have the same attitude in ME2.
Which I do think this persistent narrative is why a lot of people feel strongly about A/K and still viewing them as being traitorous to their Shepard...
This underlying hostility is quite absent in Shepard and Ashley/Kaidan's interactions (platonic or not). Maybe because Ashley/Kaidan are optional and Shepard allowing them on the ship meant they're both willing to let go and forgive and forget... again showed a degree of maturity in these characters.
Also, what kind of horrible person would ask if you would kill the person you love?
|
|
N7Valentine
N2
We'll bang, ok?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 106 Likes: 223
inherit
9304
0
223
N7Valentine
We'll bang, ok?
106
Sept 5, 2017 18:54:54 GMT
September 2017
n7valentine
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by N7Valentine on Dec 7, 2017 18:15:24 GMT
Which I do think this persistent narrative is why a lot of people feel strongly about A/K and still viewing them as being traitorous to their Shepard... Yeah, it's quite annoying but the other thing is the fans. A lot of them show zero empathy for A/K in ME2 because we don't see things from their perspective. If you ask me, Kaidan had all rights to be angry about Shepard working for Cerberus. Two years he believed his beloved one was dead and then suddenly shows up and works for a terrorist organization? Besides, I don't know if Kaidan actually knew about Shep's death or if he believed she faked it. Well, I'd have smacked some sense into FemShep if I was Kaidan. I believe the whole thing on Horizon was forced drama anyways but it like how not everyone followed Shep blindly just because he/she is the main hero of the story Both earned a lot of respect from me because of that
|
|
aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
1157
0
1,190
aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by aoibhealfae on Dec 8, 2017 4:48:16 GMT
Many people never let Kaidan alive past Virmire to think otherwise... especially when majority in the fandom determined that its acceptable to hate A/K because "I couldn't understand why anyone would like them and not my favourite space waifu/batman". While I do think what happened in ME2 is cruel and unfair.. but that's the story of their lives.. they're both hardened by battle and war and fate aren't kind to them. They're never meant to have a clean conventional romantic romance. For most part, ME2 is the turning point of their relationship. A space for their characters to grow especially when they're apart. Neither characters are dependent on one another; Shepard was dealing with Cerberus throughout the Collector's campaign and it will destroy Kaidan/Ashley's credibility if they drop everything for Shepard. They're already nearly killed several times by Cerberus throughout the game for the supposedly disagreement between them and Shepard. Even if they did part on good terms, Illusive Man would use that as an opening to tarnish Kaidan/Ashley reputation by association with his Cerberus-aligned Shepard. And I don't understand why it matters so much for certain people to expect Kaidan/Ashley to have blind loyalty. Just because some characters have it, doesn't mean all of them have to.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Dec 8, 2017 5:27:32 GMT
There was cut content in ME3 that the player could choose between saving T'soni or A/K. Too bad it wasn't in the game. Maybe if/when they remake ME3 it might be put in. I would love that. I don't especially hate Liara like you do, but I've been playing ME1 and often pairing A and K. It's been really amazing. To see that happen again in ME3 would be awesome!
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,439
sageoflife
1,577
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Dec 8, 2017 5:39:05 GMT
While I wouldn't mind having to choose between Kaidan and Liara per se, I'm glad that choice was removed from the game because of how stupid everyone on Shepard's side had to be for it to get to that point.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Dec 8, 2017 8:47:04 GMT
While I wouldn't mind having to choose between Kaidan and Liara per se, I'm glad that choice was removed from the game because of how stupid everyone on Shepard's side had to be for it to get to that point. I think it would have been a choice of three, not two.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Nov 28, 2024 18:33:13 GMT
26,318
themikefest
15,641
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Dec 8, 2017 12:36:12 GMT
While I wouldn't mind having to choose between Kaidan and Liara per se, I'm glad that choice was removed from the game because of how stupid everyone on Shepard's side had to be for it to get to that point. I would prefer having the choice. I would have chosen the asari at least once to see the outcome and to hear the dialogue, but for the most part, I would save A/K.
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,439
sageoflife
1,577
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Dec 8, 2017 15:52:34 GMT
While I wouldn't mind having to choose between Kaidan and Liara per se, I'm glad that choice was removed from the game because of how stupid everyone on Shepard's side had to be for it to get to that point. I would prefer having the choice. I would have chosen the asari at least once to see the outcome and to hear the dialogue, but for the most part, I would save A/K. I would always save Kaidan, obviously, but I wouldn't be able to get past the stupidity of Shepard's squad still not thinking to sit Kaidan down and explain what's going on, or the fact that apparently no one would have thought to look into that mysterious Alliance rep who missed the memo about Hackett giving Shepard the power to make treaties.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Dec 8, 2017 17:23:58 GMT
I would prefer having the choice. I would have chosen the asari at least once to see the outcome and to hear the dialogue, but for the most part, I would save A/K. I would always save Kaidan, obviously, but I wouldn't be able to get past the stupidity of Shepard's squad still not thinking to sit Kaidan down and explain what's going on, or the fact that apparently no one would have thought to look into that mysterious Alliance rep who missed the memo about Hackett giving Shepard the power to make treaties. You seem to be talking about ME3 but the choice is made in ME1. But we got stuff in ME2 like "I personally trust you but as long as you're with Cerberus I can't acknowledge it". That's what the Alliance did and what the Council did (if you took reinstatement). This allowed them to disavow anything he did. Also, given how Ken Donnelly reacted and apparently made a huge deal out of Shepard's claims being ignored post-death, maybe they wanted to avoid the same thing happening with A/K. If A/K were told the truth, but then Shepard did something like destroy an inhabited star system, they wouldn't then want A/K to go around saying Shepard was getting railroaded. Then scrutiny would come, the Alliance would face censure and maybe reparations of entire systems to other races (like the batarians) and they just didn't want to deal with it. However, 100% on Shepard being allowed to make treaties. Can't get clearer than that as far as whether or not Shepard can be trusted. Because if he is Cerberus, and was given those powers, that just means you also can't trust Hackett and Anderson since they're either a) also Cerberus or too stupid to see the truth. Therefore, if A/K can trust the chain of command then Shepard can similarly be trusted. (That emoji should be a "b" but this stupid board keeps turning it into an emoji. Even uppercase B does it.) CrutchCricket: any way around my "b )" being turned into an emoji?
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,439
sageoflife
1,577
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Dec 8, 2017 20:18:36 GMT
Actually, I'm referring to the original plan for Kaidan and Ashley before the script rewrite. Kai Leng would have posed as an Alliance rep who would have encouraged the VS's suspicion of Shepard. That would have been a running subplot throughout the game that would have eventually culminated in the choice to sacrifice either Liara or Kaidan/Ashley. On top of making the existing issue of nobody keeping Kaidan/Ashley in the loop even worse than it is now, apparently no one on the Normandy would have thought to investigate that rep and figure out why he is contradicting Hackett.
So, yeah. Having to choose between Kaidan and Liara? I'm fine with that. The stupidity that set up the specific situation the devs planned? I am not fine with that.
|
|
inherit
8902
0
Oct 29, 2024 17:43:30 GMT
2,692
obbie1984
845
July 2017
obbie1984
|
Post by obbie1984 on Dec 9, 2017 19:47:34 GMT
Many people never let Kaidan alive past Virmire to think otherwise... especially when majority in the fandom determined that its acceptable to hate A/K because "I couldn't understand why anyone would like them and not my favourite space waifu/batman". While I do think what happened in ME2 is cruel and unfair.. but that's the story of their lives.. they're both hardened by battle and war and fate aren't kind to them. They're never meant to have a clean conventional romantic romance. For most part, ME2 is the turning point of their relationship. A space for their characters to grow especially when they're apart. Neither characters are dependent on one another; Shepard was dealing with Cerberus throughout the Collector's campaign and it will destroy Kaidan/Ashley's credibility if they drop everything for Shepard. They're already nearly killed several times by Cerberus throughout the game for the supposedly disagreement between them and Shepard. Even if they did part on good terms, Illusive Man would use that as an opening to tarnish Kaidan/Ashley reputation by association with his Cerberus-aligned Shepard. And I don't understand why it matters so much for certain people to expect Kaidan/Ashley to have blind loyalty. Just because some characters have it, doesn't mean all of them have to. This so much. I was watching a ME1 "Gamingsins" on YT. The guy kept claiming nobody liked Ashley and Kaidan. He also kept claiming Ashley was a racist bitch and deserved to die on Virmire and Kaidan was boring and whiny. And his romance choice was Liara and he thought Garrus was awesome. Is it me, or does that seem to be the general consensus in terms of preferences for most ME players? I this its the generic choice, but I digress. He also did other games as well and kept claiming the human squadmates all suck and that nobody liked them. Why do people make ignorant blanket statements like this? Also, some extra content with Ash/Kaidan would have been nice in ME2. Something besides just the Horizon scene and a message. And it seems characters who are blindly loyal or always agree with you (or think you are awesome no matter what) are generally the most popular. Garrus/Liara fall into this category and they are like top two most popular right? And from memory, I think Varric also falls into this category from DA. Where as Alistair tends to get as much hate as love because he's "immature" and disagrees if you act like a jerk. Also, I completely agree with all the points made against Liara being a lousy and creepy character.
|
|
aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
1157
0
1,190
aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by aoibhealfae on Dec 9, 2017 20:36:56 GMT
Some people tend to associate Kaidan a lot with their experience with Carth... despite Sbarge offering different performance as they're two complete different characters who only shared military experience. Thane shared Carth's arc more than Kaidan does, which apparently goes right over their heads.
Varric is neutral but likable and he's a mercenary character with character flexibility. It takes a lot of work to actually make him rival Hawke and Inquistor. But I wouldn't really say he's the same as Garrus/Liara since you're never required to continuously please Varric or being railroaded into it as default. Varric can disagree with you a lot and you can actually do a lot of things that was plain jerk-ish and downright cruel... which never happen to Garrus/Liara at all.
I do find its plain nonsensical to hate a character by default just for being human...as if every non-human in the games aren't already voiced by actual humans and all alien characters aren't already being anthropomorphized with human behaviors and attributes to be more relatable.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Dec 9, 2017 21:29:08 GMT
I know people who prefer the alien romances (one absolutely loves Jaal over any other possibility) but I don't see them also hating human squadmates. So, yes, it would be nonsensical to hate characters for being human or not-human.
I did play KOTOR, but I never related Carth to Kaidan. They're completely different. Besides, with Sbarge my earliest memory was the first episode of Werewolf on Fox in 1987. And then he was also Jiminy Cricket on "Once Upon Time". This is no different than seeing an actor in multiple roles. In fact, it's exactly what this is. If memory serves (and it may not because it's been a long time), Carth was the whiny one. Kaidan never whined. I mean, never. If anything, he says his experiences didn't color his perceptions of aliens or the Alliance. What he actually did was have some shitty experiences, deal with it and move on with his life. Any "whining" was a failing of ME2 Horizon, but that would also make Ash a whiner. However, I don't think that was whining, either. Having just finished the Hades Dog mission in ME1, it's VERY clear why Kaidan and Ashley would be distrustful of someone working for Cerberus. Now, we all know it could have been handled better by Anderson but that's not the fault of A/K. Based on the information A/K had, they chose loyalty to the Alliance vs joining up with a pro-human terrorist organization. Crazy, I know, but there it is.
|
|
inherit
8902
0
Oct 29, 2024 17:43:30 GMT
2,692
obbie1984
845
July 2017
obbie1984
|
Post by obbie1984 on Dec 10, 2017 18:15:57 GMT
Some people tend to associate Kaidan a lot with their experience with Carth... despite Sbarge offering different performance as they're two complete different characters who only shared military experience. Thane shared Carth's arc more than Kaidan does, which apparently goes right over their heads. Varric is neutral but likable and he's a mercenary character with character flexibility. It takes a lot of work to actually make him rival Hawke and Inquistor. But I wouldn't really say he's the same as Garrus/Liara since you're never required to continuously please Varric or being railroaded into it as default. Varric can disagree with you a lot and you can actually do a lot of things that was plain jerk-ish and downright cruel... which never happen to Garrus/Liara at all. I do find its plain nonsensical to hate a character by default just for being human...as if every non-human in the games aren't already voiced by actual humans and all alien characters aren't already being anthropomorphized with human behaviors and attributes to be more relatable. I've never played the game in Carth in it, but that just seems like a really unfair and silly reason to initially dislike a character. Especially since I've heard many say they are nothing alike at all. Well to be fair, ME fans tend to overlook a lot of stuff that they shouldn't. Liara and Garrus are prime examples of this. I found Varric pretty likable in DA2. I didn't care for him much in DAI and felt he was just there after a certain point for fan service. And I thought so long as you pick the aggressive options with Varric when you talk to him, you can get rivalry with him fairly easily. I don't remember him changing that much in rivalry but I do know in DAI he fondly remembers Hawke regardless of allegiance. He's definitely nowhere near as bad as Garrus/Liara but I feel like he is a very easy character to get along with. And agreed. One of my biggest gripes when playing ME series again is how... not alien many of the alien characters are. They are actually extremely human and use human vernacular to describe their situations, etc. I never found Ash or Kaidan whiny. I think Kaidan even said in one of his conversations he didn't want to come off as a "whiner." And I was just thinking, "um wat? That's not whining." Expressing reservations about the mission and not jumping head first into a problem doesn't make you a whiner.
|
|
aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
1157
0
1,190
aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by aoibhealfae on Dec 11, 2017 7:01:52 GMT
I like Varric and I disagreed a lot with him... he won't passive aggressively reprimand you for the choices you made and he does provide some additional context as he's very observant enough and sometimes naive even in his worldly cynicism. But the relationship felt a lot natural. He does express his disappointment but he won't judge you for it. When he did praise you, he does it quite subtly or seriously with a tinge of humor. While he's clearly written as the best friend but I always saw it as something optional (I choose to be his friend or indifferent without being punished for it) and he won't ass-kiss aggressively to make you think he's better than everyone else... because he cared about people around him and it showed. Which I find its troubling to see how the general Mass Effect fandom does affect the writing in Mass Effect Andromeda... noticeably even in commentary and interviews, MEA was created by developers, artists and writers who often express how much they are fans of the trilogy... rather than identifying what makes the trilogy great and intriguing in the first place... they ended up creating watered down amalgams of MET fanfavourites being superimposed in the newer squadmates... In the end, I do find its saddening that there aren't really like someone like Kaidan in MEA... someone who is masculine, principled, independent, who aren't afraid to say no to you and someone who is flawed enough to admit that he was wrong and want to be a better person. The qualities that I admired a lot in a man; fictional or IRL.. and to be told that all of that is "whiny and boring" and that I'm a cold fish... wince... Which is why I'm in love with SWTOR a lot more this year... because I found that qualities in a character that I never would've expected... and it was amazing.
|
|
N7Valentine
N2
We'll bang, ok?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 106 Likes: 223
inherit
9304
0
223
N7Valentine
We'll bang, ok?
106
Sept 5, 2017 18:54:54 GMT
September 2017
n7valentine
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by N7Valentine on Dec 11, 2017 9:36:28 GMT
People tend to self-insert themselves into their Shepards, thus they view A/K's not joining them as being directed at them, I suppose? I never did that because Shepard was always BW's character, I just felt like a director who told him/her what to do I was glad that at least some characters in ME had a common sense and decided not to join Shep, when he/she was cooperating with Cerberus. It just shows their independency. Adding the fact that both get promotion WITHOUT Shepard's help, Kaidan is a major in 3 and Ash a Lt.-Cmd. Plus, disliking Kaidan because he voiced Carth is ridiculous! That shows how sometimes certain fans tend to go overboard. Also "whiny"? There are other characters that whine too but they get apparently overlooked by folks
|
|
inherit
Psi-Cop
38
0
Feb 21, 2019 15:55:45 GMT
10,231
CrutchCricket
The Emperor Daft Serious
4,577
August 2016
crutchcricket
CrutchCricket
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 11, 2017 13:26:49 GMT
CrutchCricket : any way around my "b )" being turned into an emoji? lol yeah I've run into this one several times, on here and the old BSN. And now there's a solution! Use the following bbcode tags around code you want to show not run in line: [noubbc] [/noubbc] or [noparse][/noparse]
For example: a) something and b) something else was achieved with a) something and [noubbc]b)[/noubbc] something else
The noparse tag would've done the same thing.
|
|
aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
1157
0
1,190
aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by aoibhealfae on Dec 13, 2017 7:58:25 GMT
Such a gorgeous man.... who can feed you... with booze and doing sexy things afterwards. I like how the scene still work even unromanced. (which I have no screenies for since I never go this far to play Kaidan unromanced anyway.) But with some subtle but stark difference, he didn't turn on the news about Earth. Of course, he's worried and still grieving but somehow I like that he wanted to spend time with Shepard. Slice of heaven on Citadel.
|
|
aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
1157
0
1,190
aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by aoibhealfae on Dec 13, 2017 14:51:22 GMT
I just finished watching The Last Jedi..... and Commander Poe Kaidan Onasi Dameron is amazing.
Go watch... for the live action space husband.
|
|
aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
1157
0
1,190
aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by aoibhealfae on Dec 14, 2017 6:00:37 GMT
I just realized, Kaidanmance is the only romance that show how to use a courting gift effectively. Not as a spammable out of scene courting item, but a real one that was used and help further the scene. And that apparently it drive some people mad.... why does it always have to be a competition?
|
|