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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by abaris on May 28, 2017 16:53:38 GMT
And sorry for the ranty post. I have feels about the stupidly small size and pisspoor design of the Tempest. No problem at all. At least on my part. As a former D&D and Call of Cthulhu master, back in the 80ies, I get anal over things like that also. In the manuals they always said, don't forget the toilets and make sure everyone living in that castle or dungeon has a place to bunker down. So the first thing I noticed on the Tempest were the missing shower and toilet in the pathfinders quarters. I even went searching if they thought to install even one toilet on the ship. They did, which is more than they did on the SR1. Which I noticed too.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 28, 2017 17:06:42 GMT
Alec's Ark apartment was a waste of space Though maybe it'll be used by your mother in the future??? The Tempest its tiny, super tiny. Smaller then the Normandy SR-1 I head canon that it was meant for Alec and his team. Only its too small for even that. When you consider it was Alec, Cora, Scout and Sera, Liam, DR Carlyle, Suvi, Gil & Kalo [Assumed cause scientist, engineer and pilot] plus Kirkland, Greer and Fisher. [Also assumed members of the Pathfinder team] So.. 12 total. Now obviously Alec would stay in his massive quarters. And we will assume that the good Doctor has a bed unseen bed in the medbay, and that Gil must sleep in engineering. But beyond that, theres still 9 people and only 4 remaining beds. And you'd think if the original pathfinder team originally consisted of 12 people,[One more then Player Ryder's crew] the human pathfinder ship would have been designed to accommodate them all... nope. In reality, what you get is a ship large enough for maybe 8 plus the Pathfinder. If you assume that the Doctor sleeps in the medbay, Gil sleeps in engineering, Suvi and Kalo have racks else where, perhaps near or on the bridge. And the 4 beds in the crew quarters are meant for Cora, Liam, and the Ryder Twins. Good thing Kirkland died, and Greer and Fisher said "nope" to continuing to serve on the team after Habitat 7 all things considered. And thats just when you consider the originally attended human [Plus Kalo] crew. Not the diverse crew Player Ryder ends up putting together which whole new issues from medical and dietary needs to where they sleep because Krogan and Turians are larger and have considerably different body shapes then Humans, Asari, and even Salarians. Its rather ridiculous. And the lack of livable space isnt the sole fault of the oversized Pathfinder Quarters either. Theres a lot of wasted or miss used space on the Tempest. For example the loadout room really should be the same room as the armory, because logical.- Which would have freed up that side room for quarters for Suvi and Kalo at least. (Assuming its the airlock for the side door??] R&D could have been combined in with the Hydroponics bay/science lab. Again Logic. or Alternatively, moved up into the "meeting" room. Either way, it would have freed up all that floor space for larger or additional crew quarters. Speaking of the meeting room, that could have been better utilized as also a lounge area for those between mission moments. The Pathfinder's quarters could have been smaller, letting you expand the join bathroom/crew quarters. Or at the very least they could have included a private bathroom/shower like Shepard's quarters on the SR2. Seriously, the Tempest feels more like a private yacht then a exploration sudo-military ship. And sorry for the ranty post. I have feels about the stupidly small size and pisspoor design of the Tempest. Regarding bunk arrangements, having one bed per crew member would work under the assumption that at some point, everyone on the ship would be asleep at the same time, but on an active vessel, that can never happen. There would always have to be shifts so that enough people are awake to operate the vessel at all times. That's no different from the arrangements on the SR2. There are far fewer bunks in the crew quarters than there are actual bodies on the ship. I don't think ME1 had anything beyond those pods so I'll leave that one alone. If anything, there should be two people in engineering, and two pilots so at least these ends of the ship give the illusion that no matter what, at least one of these people can make the ship run and fly at all times. In this respect, it's basically the same situation with Joker before EDI. At least in ME1 and 2, you automatically had multiple people in engineering, at least from the start. I would agree however that Suvi and Kallo should have their own quarters on the upper deck somewhere, similar to the crew deck compartments in 747's for long journeys.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by revanstar on May 28, 2017 17:11:55 GMT
And sorry for the ranty post. I have feels about the stupidly small size and pisspoor design of the Tempest. No problem at all. At least on my part. As a former D&D and Call of Cthulhu master, back in the 80ies, I get anal over things like that also. In the manuals they always said, don't forget the toilets and make sure everyone living in that castle or dungeon has a place to bunker down. So the first thing I noticed on the Tempest were the missing shower and toilet in the pathfinders quarters. I even went searching if they thought to install even one toilet on the ship. They did, which is more than they did on the SR1. Which I noticed too. At least in DAI, you could assume, given the size of Skyhold, that everyone had quarters somewhere even if you never actually have been there. Thats not really possible on the Tempest. Most of them have places to sleep yes. But they arnt proper quarters. They sleep in labs, and medbays and escape pods or other weird locations. I noticed cause as an artist and a writer I think about things like that. I notice it in TV shows or movies as well. It might be a little nick-picky, but its also more then a little immersion breaking when theres no beds (or not enough beds), showers, or toilets. For my sanity, I have to headcanon the ship bigger then it is.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by revanstar on May 28, 2017 17:18:50 GMT
Alec's Ark apartment was a waste of space Though maybe it'll be used by your mother in the future??? The Tempest its tiny, super tiny. Smaller then the Normandy SR-1 I head canon that it was meant for Alec and his team. Only its too small for even that. When you consider it was Alec, Cora, Scout and Sera, Liam, DR Carlyle, Suvi, Gil & Kalo [Assumed cause scientist, engineer and pilot] plus Kirkland, Greer and Fisher. [Also assumed members of the Pathfinder team] So.. 12 total. Now obviously Alec would stay in his massive quarters. And we will assume that the good Doctor has a bed unseen bed in the medbay, and that Gil must sleep in engineering. But beyond that, theres still 9 people and only 4 remaining beds. And you'd think if the original pathfinder team originally consisted of 12 people,[One more then Player Ryder's crew] the human pathfinder ship would have been designed to accommodate them all... nope. In reality, what you get is a ship large enough for maybe 8 plus the Pathfinder. If you assume that the Doctor sleeps in the medbay, Gil sleeps in engineering, Suvi and Kalo have racks else where, perhaps near or on the bridge. And the 4 beds in the crew quarters are meant for Cora, Liam, and the Ryder Twins. Good thing Kirkland died, and Greer and Fisher said "nope" to continuing to serve on the team after Habitat 7 all things considered. And thats just when you consider the originally attended human [Plus Kalo] crew. Not the diverse crew Player Ryder ends up putting together which whole new issues from medical and dietary needs to where they sleep because Krogan and Turians are larger and have considerably different body shapes then Humans, Asari, and even Salarians. Its rather ridiculous. And the lack of livable space isnt the sole fault of the oversized Pathfinder Quarters either. Theres a lot of wasted or miss used space on the Tempest. For example the loadout room really should be the same room as the armory, because logical.- Which would have freed up that side room for quarters for Suvi and Kalo at least. (Assuming its the airlock for the side door??] R&D could have been combined in with the Hydroponics bay/science lab. Again Logic. or Alternatively, moved up into the "meeting" room. Either way, it would have freed up all that floor space for larger or additional crew quarters. Speaking of the meeting room, that could have been better utilized as also a lounge area for those between mission moments. The Pathfinder's quarters could have been smaller, letting you expand the join bathroom/crew quarters. Or at the very least they could have included a private bathroom/shower like Shepard's quarters on the SR2. Seriously, the Tempest feels more like a private yacht then a exploration sudo-military ship. And sorry for the ranty post. I have feels about the stupidly small size and pisspoor design of the Tempest. Regarding bunk arrangements, having one bed per crew member would work under the assumption that at some point, everyone on the ship would be asleep at the same time, but on an active vessel, that can never happen. There would always have to be shifts so that enough people are awake to operate the vessel at all times. That's no different from the arrangements on the SR2. There are far fewer bunks in the crew quarters than there are actual bodies on the ship. I don't think ME1 had anything beyond those pods so I'll leave that one alone. If anything, there should be two people in engineering, and two pilots so at least these ends of the ship give the illusion that no matter what, at least one of these people can make the ship run and fly at all times. In this respect, it's basically the same situation with Joker before EDI. At least in ME1 and 2, you automatically had multiple people in engineering, at least from the start. I assume SAM monitors the ship during long FTL trips and/or when the crew is asleep. One, because the majority of the squad wouldnt be qualified as pilots or engineers. And two, I wouldnt trust Liam to feed my space hamster, let alone with the Tempest, rather my Ryder is sleeping or groundside. And tbh, hes the one I left behind all the time.
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Post by abaris on May 28, 2017 17:21:00 GMT
For my sanity, I have to headcanon the ship bigger then it is. One of the above posters mentioned people taking shifts sleeping. Which is true of course, but not providing bunks for everyone on board is WWII submarine standard. One would think, society had moved beyond that 900 years later.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 70 Likes: 78
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Post by revanstar on May 28, 2017 17:30:19 GMT
For my sanity, I have to headcanon the ship bigger then it is. One of the above posters mentioned people taking shifts sleeping. Which is true of course, but not providing bunks for everyone on board is WWII submarine standard. One would think, society had moved beyond that 900 years later. And doesnt explain 4 bunks for 11 original members of the pathfinder team (not including Alec) Even with shifts, thats still too few beds.
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Party like it's 2023!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 28, 2017 17:32:33 GMT
Regarding bunk arrangements, having one bed per crew member would work under the assumption that at some point, everyone on the ship would be asleep at the same time, but on an active vessel, that can never happen. There would always have to be shifts so that enough people are awake to operate the vessel at all times. That's no different from the arrangements on the SR2. There are far fewer bunks in the crew quarters than there are actual bodies on the ship. I don't think ME1 had anything beyond those pods so I'll leave that one alone. If anything, there should be two people in engineering, and two pilots so at least these ends of the ship give the illusion that no matter what, at least one of these people can make the ship run and fly at all times. In this respect, it's basically the same situation with Joker before EDI. At least in ME1 and 2, you automatically had multiple people in engineering, at least from the start. I assume SAM monitors the ship during long FTL trips and/or when the crew is asleep. One, because the majority of the squad wouldnt be qualified as pilots or engineers. And two, I wouldnt trust Liam to feed my space hamster, let alone with the Tempest, rather my Ryder is sleeping or groundside. And tbh, hes the one I left behind all the time. I can at least trust Liam to shoot at things, so there's that. In any case, the ship would still have its engineer, science and medical officers. Of course, that all flies out the window when an asari manages to get into the airlock and sneak into the escape pod corridor to snatch an observer. I will admit however that there are a great many things I would change about the ship's design, but about just as many as I would have for the Normandy as well, which I generally had more problems with. In the end, I think what really bothers me the most is the ship's internal proportions, which is totally in contradiction to the shape of the ship. I guess there's a good technical reason why the ship is basically compressed on the inside compared to its outer dimensions, but I just wish that it wasn't. The upper deck catwalk between the holo display/research station and the bridge should have been much longer, so the compartments below should have been far larger as well. Not to mention, the ship should have been wider, considering that the port and starboard side compartments just aft of the bridge extend out much farther than what you can see through the forward viewing screen. My greatest wish is to finally get a ship in Mass Effect that actually has truly believable dimensions reflected both inside and out. We've yet to ever get that. Like, the SR2 bothers me so much because the distance between the cargo bay door from the elevator shaft is either equal to or greater than the distance between that same shaft and the bridge, even though the shape of the ship suggests that this should be the shortest deck.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 70 Likes: 78
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Post by revanstar on May 28, 2017 17:34:25 GMT
I assume SAM monitors the ship during long FTL trips and/or when the crew is asleep. One, because the majority of the squad wouldnt be qualified as pilots or engineers. And two, I wouldnt trust Liam to feed my space hamster, let alone with the Tempest, rather my Ryder is sleeping or groundside. And tbh, hes the one I left behind all the time. I can at least trust Liam to shoot at things, so there's that. In any case, the ship would still have its engineer, science and medical officers. Of course, that all flies out the window when an asari manages to get into the airlock and sneak into the escape pod corridor to snatch an observer. I will admit however that there are a great many things I would change about the ship's design, but about just as many as I would have for the Normandy as well, which I generally had more problems with. In the end, I think what really bothers me the most is the ship's internal proportions, which is totally in contradiction to the shape of the ship. I guess there's a good technical reason why the ship is basically compressed on the inside compared to its outer dimensions, but I just wish that it wasn't. The upper deck catwalk between the holo display/research station and the bridge should have been much longer, so the compartments below should have been far larger as well. Not to mention, the ship should have been wider, considering that the port and starboard side compartments just aft of the bridge extend out much farther than what you can see through the forward viewing screen. My greatest wish is to finally get a ship in Mass Effect that actually has truly believable dimensions reflected both inside and out. We've yet to ever get that. The Tempest. Its smaller on the inside.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 28, 2017 17:39:45 GMT
I can at least trust Liam to shoot at things, so there's that. In any case, the ship would still have its engineer, science and medical officers. Of course, that all flies out the window when an asari manages to get into the airlock and sneak into the escape pod corridor to snatch an observer. I will admit however that there are a great many things I would change about the ship's design, but about just as many as I would have for the Normandy as well, which I generally had more problems with. In the end, I think what really bothers me the most is the ship's internal proportions, which is totally in contradiction to the shape of the ship. I guess there's a good technical reason why the ship is basically compressed on the inside compared to its outer dimensions, but I just wish that it wasn't. The upper deck catwalk between the holo display/research station and the bridge should have been much longer, so the compartments below should have been far larger as well. Not to mention, the ship should have been wider, considering that the port and starboard side compartments just aft of the bridge extend out much farther than what you can see through the forward viewing screen. My greatest wish is to finally get a ship in Mass Effect that actually has truly believable dimensions reflected both inside and out. We've yet to ever get that. The Tempest. Its smaller on the inside. Yeah but that's all of the ships from the SR1 to the Tempest. I feel that this is something done deliberately so that the loading times aren't so painful. There were instances when sometimes it would take a while for Liara's quarters to finally load, or for the main battery to open, and even occasionally the bridge. On the Tempest, you had a number of load points, sometimes not working quickly enough so doors took a while to open or decks to render. If the ship was much bigger, I'd bet that problem would be much worse. I just hope that one day one of these games gets passed this and for once our ship feels like a good and proper space craft with lots of realistic corridors and lack of "compressed" internal space.
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Reorte
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Reorte on May 28, 2017 17:43:29 GMT
Hmm, I should compare walking along the outside of the Tempest to the inside. All I noticed when I jumped up on to the ship was Kallo being unimpressed by it.
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LilTIM
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 155 Likes: 247
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by LilTIM on May 28, 2017 17:46:23 GMT
That model ship only exists as a device to make the MET trilogy player feels nostalgic, and transfer some of that emotional attachment to Andromeda.
The game is full of things like that, stuff that has no in-universe reasoning for being there, but it's there anyway in order to cater to fans. (ex. Suvi getting sick for licking an andromeda rock, but Ryder banging an andromeda alien and being fine)
The whole game is like that abomination called Citadel dlc, but stretched out through the whole duration, so no matter where you look there's always that little sitcom laughter playing.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on May 28, 2017 21:03:59 GMT
Did it strike anyone else strange that there was a Normandy SR2 model in his room? It seemed like something that was very out of place. There is an SR2 model to be found in ME2, so they at least existed before the AI launched. That said, it was considered a ship owned by a terrorist organization until it was reclaimed when Shepard handed it over to the Alliance. Looking at the Timeline on the wiki, it says that the events of Arrival took place around January 23, 2186. The wiki suggests the AI left on December 7, 2185, though the Nexus Uprising outright says that the party from the night before launch was "The last night of 2185 AD". Hence, they must have left January 1, 2186. So, with that in mind, it's peculiar that Alec had the model ship of a terrorist organization - unless he simply trusted Shepard enough that he didn't believe s/he would ever actually betray the Alliance. Or maybe he thought that Shepard, like himself, was willing to walk on the "dark side" in order to get things done if his existing allies weren't willing to do the job.
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kalasaurus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 519 Likes: 1,171
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Post by kalasaurus on May 29, 2017 0:45:12 GMT
I always assumed the bed with the stuffed animals (from Plants v Zombies I read?) was Liam's.
I just saw a lot of it as cosmetic for role playing/headcanon purposes. You can't interact with the bathroom (thank god) or kitchen. The SR1 didn't even have those two things, but it was still assumed to be there off-camera. People need to eat and do other bodily functions, yes? True, some parts were bigger or smaller than necessary on the Tempest, but they're still there.
And I do agree on the deliberate layout to avoid loading screens. The elevator in ME2 was the worst. "Oh, I need to go up to my room for something? I guess I'll go grab a bowl of cereal." At least while playing on PS4, I noticed a lot of delays while moving from space to space to replace the loading screens and give the illusion that they weren't there, such as the doors taking awhile to open. I do appreciate that move in the gaming industry as a whole.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 29, 2017 1:01:43 GMT
I prefer to think that those plushes are Suvi's. Liam probably sleeps on that couch.
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kalasaurus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 519 Likes: 1,171
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Post by kalasaurus on May 29, 2017 1:11:59 GMT
I prefer to think that those plushes are Suvi's. Liam probably sleeps on that couch. Hm, probably. That nasty couch composed of 2% unknown :/
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Post by dreman999 on May 29, 2017 1:53:15 GMT
Did it strike anyone else strange that there was a Normandy SR2 model in his room? It seemed like something that was very out of place. Why? game takes place after me2.
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Reorte
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 172 Likes: 144
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Post by Reorte on May 29, 2017 11:42:35 GMT
I prefer to think that those plushes are Suvi's. Liam probably sleeps on that couch. Hm, probably. That nasty couch composed of 2% unknown :/ I've never scanned it. Now I'm glad. Andromeda has had stick for lack of attention to detail, but that's going too far in the other direction!
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 172 Likes: 144
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Post by Reorte on May 29, 2017 11:47:56 GMT
One of the above posters mentioned people taking shifts sleeping. Which is true of course, but not providing bunks for everyone on board is WWII submarine standard. One would think, society had moved beyond that 900 years later. They don't have the crew for taking watches - who are the qualified people to do so in the other watch? Since it's not supposed to be a military ship and space is, well, largely empty (Scourge notwithstanding) I assume that they don't operate 24 hours, and park up for the night, with either the on-board computers or SAM watching out for anything that might need to wake them. Whislt Kallo wanders around the ship bored out of his mind, being stuck with these slovenly aliens who spend a third of their life unconcious.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 29, 2017 13:33:12 GMT
I prefer to think that those plushes are Suvi's. Liam probably sleeps on that couch. Hm, probably. That nasty couch composed of 2% unknown :/ That 2% unknown probably accounts for the increase in efficiency with the overcharged omniplate.
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