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Post by theghostoftimmy on Jun 7, 2017 22:04:43 GMT
What's shady about tweaking your product offering to maximize revenue WHILE TLLING PEOPLE YOU ARE DOING IT? Could be worse. Paradox Studios recently jacked up their DLC prices by a third without a mention to anyone.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: BloodRed Thorne
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Post by The Joe-Man on Jun 7, 2017 22:12:28 GMT
Tomorrow. Confirmed.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 7, 2017 22:26:21 GMT
What's shady about tweaking your product offering to maximize revenue WHILE TLLING PEOPLE YOU ARE DOING IT? Tweaking implies a sort of improvement of the product you are offering. Like adding a set of winter tires for a new car. Please walk me through this thought process i am obviously failing to grasp. How is it an improvement if you make your initial product worse to get the customer to invest more money? MEA MP makes money by enticing people to buy Andromeda Points so they can unlock loot faster than by grinding out Credits. It is a combined enticement of getting new shinies, saving time, being cooler than people who don't yet have good loot, gambling, and the obsessive need to collect and "max" things. The game must have a careful balance between free to play and pay to get stuff. If the free to play aspect is too easy then there is little reason to spend real money. If the pay aspect is too expensive or too naked there is backlash and fewer customers. I *speculated* cynically that the reason enemy damage was boosted was because the balance is tipping too far in the free direction. Making enemies deal more damage should mean overall fewer Full Extractions, meaning fewer credits being paid out. This increases demand for APs. Also higher enemy damage might mean more Boosters being used which causes players to spend credits on the new Jumbo Equipment Pack rather than on Premium Packs. This also increases demand for APs. Also so we have strong hints of new content coming such as Angara Exemplar plus whatever is on the Quarian Ark. This too entices people to buy APs so they can get the new content quickly. Or at least spend their hoarded credits. All of this his is being done openly, either announced in patch notes (new packs, enemy damage boosts) or verbally and textually hinted (new content). It it is all salesmanship. If Bioware is correct they sell more APs and everyone wins. If they are wrong, some product manager gets chewed out and maybe fired. Again, all speculation and educated guesses on my part.
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Post by CHRrOME on Jun 7, 2017 22:29:48 GMT
Also most AR are automatic weapons. Yeah, I meant AR love in the form of weapon damage buffs, I don't think accuracy alone is gonna cut it here.
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Post by xaijin on Jun 7, 2017 22:56:52 GMT
When people stop buying APs they will notice. Anything else is just words on a screen. Any idea how that scheme is called? The word you're looking for is "incentivization", which is a polite way of saying "naked greed".
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Post by poultrymancer on Jun 7, 2017 23:19:22 GMT
We don't know that yet without knowing how hard Juggernaut Shield is being nerfed. I suspect at the end of the day there will be a net zero gain when the two are combined. A quick use of the calculator indicates a 62% buff to base damage. Using the jug shield before patch = 700 damage with no other bonuses. Assuming the Jug shield is reduced to 30% (seems reasonable) damage = 795 with no other bonuses. Seeing as with a higher base damage the other bonuses will have more effect, this is a pretty big buff. This may finally make it to so that I can run the hipster nova-centric build I've been considering with a biotic amp without severely gimping the hammer.
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Post by poultrymancer on Jun 7, 2017 23:34:59 GMT
Any idea how that scheme is called? The word you're looking for is "incentivization", which is a polite way of saying "naked greed". Sounds like several of you are mad at the basic tenets of capitalism but either don't realize it or don't want to admit it. Publicly-traded corporations like EA literally have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize profits. Among the most common strategies employed to meet this duty is one which entails setting a price point as close to what the market will bear as possible, balancing the loss of revenue from the customers you'll alienate against the revenue gained from those who will pay more. If the price of an item is already set and can't be changed without raising the ire of consumers (e.g. like the respective static prices of the AP packs), other strategies will be employed to drive demand. Making game-credit progression harder is the easiest means available by which EA can drive demand. I'm not defending it. I'm not attacking it. It is what it is. Not EA. Capitalism.
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Post by someN7orother on Jun 7, 2017 23:51:03 GMT
The game must have a careful balance between free to play and pay to get stuff. MEA is not free to play, though. They slapped a (rather lame) F2P monetization scheme on top of a premium product, then curbed the ability of players to progress to incentivize participation in said scheme. Whether you see this as "shady" is of course subjective. I think it's naked greed, you think it's a shining example of innovative entrepreneurship. Subjective discussion. And old. Anyway, I expected more from this patch, what with it being some biower dude's "favorite" so far. It's been, what, a month since the last balance pass? Color me thoroughly whelmed.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 8, 2017 0:31:33 GMT
The word you're looking for is "incentivization", which is a polite way of saying "naked greed". Sounds like several of you are mad at the basic tenets of capitalism but either don't realize it or don't want to admit it. Publicly-traded corporations like EA literally have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize profits. Among the most common strategies employed to meet this duty is one which entails setting a price point as close to what the market will bear as possible, balancing the loss of revenue from the customers you'll alienate against the revenue gained from those who will pay more. I'm not mad at all. I'm a staunch capitalist. Hell, one of my earliest claims to fame was when I used demand curve analysis to prove that my company could charge $2 more on a $7 product without adversely affecting the quantity of products sold. That is an immense improvement in profit margin. Exactly what you are talking about in your second paragraph. The game must have a careful balance between free to play and pay to get stuff. MEA is not free to play, though. They slapped a (rather lame) F2P monetization scheme on top of a premium product So what? This is literally, 100% a copy of the ME3MP model. It was not only totally predictable, it was inevitable after ME3MP made them piles and piles of money. If you don't like it, don't buy the product. To buy the product while complaining about the price and product features is, frankly, stupid.
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Post by xaijin on Jun 8, 2017 1:43:38 GMT
The word you're looking for is "incentivization", which is a polite way of saying "naked greed". Sounds like several of you are mad at the basic tenets of capitalism but either don't realize it or don't want to admit it. Publicly-traded corporations like EA literally have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize profits. Among the most common strategies employed to meet this duty is one which entails setting a price point as close to what the market will bear as possible, balancing the loss of revenue from the customers you'll alienate against the revenue gained from those who will pay more. If the price of an item is already set and can't be changed without raising the ire of consumers (e.g. like the respective static prices of the AP packs), other strategies will be employed to drive demand. Making game-credit progression harder is the easiest means available by which EA can drive demand. I'm not defending it. I'm not attacking it. It is what it is. Not EA. Capitalism. Your entry level economics 101 theory is speciously "correct" at best. The electronic games industry is now going to 50 years old very soon, and the model this specific game uses is predatory, period. EA doesn't have "responsibility" to anyone, EA is an artificial construct producing agreed upon products for agreed upon monetary gain. The SPECIFIC model EA has chosen to use is also in no way shape or form necessary, as I can point you to Tekken 7 for a much more consumer friendly MP model, and I can point you to the Witcher 3 for an SP model that actively jams it's engorged and throbbing member repeatedly into this model's gaping eye socket with wanton abandon. You don't have to spend a dime on T7's mp to unlock everything unless you choose to, and the The Witcher offers roughly 500% of the content available in MEA for two third's of the maximum price. "capitalism"
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Post by poultrymancer on Jun 8, 2017 1:45:29 GMT
Edit: @jr
Sorry, guess I was unclear. I grasped your position from your posts; you were pretty much the only person in that exchange to whom that was NOT directed.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 8, 2017 1:49:59 GMT
Edit: @jr Sorry, guess I was unclear. I grasped your position from your posts; you were pretty much the only person in that exchange to whom that was NOT directed. We cool bro.
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Post by someN7orother on Jun 8, 2017 4:13:27 GMT
So what? This is literally, 100% a copy of the ME3MP model. It was not only totally predictable, it was inevitable after ME3MP made them piles and piles of money. If you don't like it, don't buy the product. To buy the product while complaining about the price and product features is, frankly, stupid. So what...? Oh, nothing. It's just that the whole "need to balance" reasoning doesn't hold water because you pay for this shit upfront. Hence, the assorted greedy/shady accusations. Besides, I don't remember skill points being hidden behind character cards, for instance. So it's actually not a carbon copy, but rather a similar model with even more "incentivization". I guess that, in hindsight, and given EA's track record it was predictable, but in no way inevitable, unless you think that getting worse value for your dollar as time goes on is some sort of natural law. And I would agree with you that buying it and complaining is stupid... if they had been upfront with the details, allowing for informed purchases on release. They never were, and getting information in general from these bozos is like pulling teeth (cf. Expert Pack streakbreaker "fix" fiasco). Anyway, I'm not even mad. And certainly not invested enough to keep derailing this thread... even though the patch itself doesn't have nearly enough meat to keep the topic going much more. Agree to disagree and all that.
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vomder
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: vomder
XBL Gamertag: killer of stars
PSN: vomder
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Post by vomder on Jun 8, 2017 4:53:13 GMT
Looks like 1 step forward 2 steps back to me.
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Post by konfeta on Jun 8, 2017 5:03:47 GMT
So Kroguard's and Assy Duelists will one shot mooks with melee now.
I approve so, so, SO freaking hard.
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Post by kalil on Jun 8, 2017 5:03:54 GMT
So. Regarding the juggernaut shield: any info on how much they actually reduced the melee damage bonus?
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Post by varicite on Jun 8, 2017 5:14:29 GMT
Always glad to see a buff to Duelist, one of the few kits that doesn't mind the damage buff enemies are getting, especially with the Backlash fix.
The real treat here, however, is Asari Sentinel getting big time buffs through tech explosion and Throw detonate buff.
Energy Drain nerf is miniscule with how often you can spam it anyway.
Time to fry all the things...
Biggest surprise? Flak Cannon makes it through yet another patch untouched.
I'm cool with that.
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jun 8, 2017 5:22:02 GMT
Thoughts...
- Talon buff was necessary. It'd fallen behind uncommon shotties. - 10% enemy damage buff I think I'm ok with. Probably won't really notice it tbh. - Not a fan of Biotic punch base damage being left behind. Yes, it's faster, but it should still have a buff of sorts especially with a JS nerf. - Jumbo Supply packs. About fucking time. I've got RSI from trying to stock up on ops packs. Why weren't they included in the first place? - Will be interesting to see if the UR pity counter extends to all 3 versions of the premium pack. - Shockwave still a poor detonator. Smh. Should've got a bump to 75%. - Tech combo buff? Sweet. My Asari Sentinel thanks you. - Curious to see how short this Observer charge up time is. - Already mentioned I'm happy with the Pariah change. - The Viper S and Charger S are assault rifles? - Like others, I have no clue what a shield gate amount is.
That's it for now
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saints
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Saints944
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Post by saints on Jun 8, 2017 5:35:38 GMT
Why no Sadstorm buff?!?
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Post by varicite on Jun 8, 2017 5:37:49 GMT
I don't see anything about aerial melee in there.
Gonna be really weird for aerial melee to do less than half the damage of normal sword strikes..
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Post by thelostturian on Jun 8, 2017 6:29:17 GMT
MEA is not free to play, though. They slapped a (rather lame) F2P monetization scheme on top of a premium product So what? This is literally, 100% a copy of the ME3MP model. It was not only totally predictable, it was inevitable after ME3MP made them piles and piles of money. If you don't like it, don't buy the product. To buy the product while complaining about the price and product features is, frankly, stupid. It is not 100% same as ME3, it is lot more greedy. Kits have to be levelled up indiviudally and progression is locked behind rare and UR cards. They saw that they can get away slapping a F2P scheme on a pre-paid product so why not? And there are people defending them on public forums ... It was impossible to decide whether I like the game or not before buying. Large part due to the fact that they released a half-finished product, basically a beta version. If I buy product I expect a fully functional version. If I buy a car I expect a functional car not some "beta version" that cannot work properly for month. Any car salesman selling a car in a state MEA was at release would have been sued on the spot.
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Post by konfeta on Jun 8, 2017 6:40:30 GMT
Is there any downside to buying character or weapon packs? I really want to finish up characters for skillpoints. The last 3 millions gave me none :/
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Post by sepherusfr on Jun 8, 2017 7:01:33 GMT
I think i'll add a patchnote for myself: -frustration levels during a game increased from 105% to 250%
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Post by Kazu on Jun 8, 2017 7:13:14 GMT
Tweaking implies a sort of improvement of the product you are offering. Like adding a set of winter tires for a new car. Please walk me through this thought process i am obviously failing to grasp. How is it an improvement if you make your initial product worse to get the customer to invest more money? MEA MP makes money by enticing people to buy Andromeda Points so they can unlock loot faster than by grinding out Credits. It is a combined enticement of getting new shinies, saving time, being cooler than people who don't yet have good loot, gambling, and the obsessive need to collect and "max" things. The game must have a careful balance between free to play and pay to get stuff. If the free to play aspect is too easy then there is little reason to spend real money. If the pay aspect is too expensive or too naked there is backlash and fewer customers. I *speculated* cynically that the reason enemy damage was boosted was because the balance is tipping too far in the free direction. Making enemies deal more damage should mean overall fewer Full Extractions, meaning fewer credits being paid out. This increases demand for APs. Also higher enemy damage might mean more Boosters being used which causes players to spend credits on the new Jumbo Equipment Pack rather than on Premium Packs. This also increases demand for APs. Also so we have strong hints of new content coming such as Angara Exemplar plus whatever is on the Quarian Ark. This too entices people to buy APs so they can get the new content quickly. Or at least spend their hoarded credits. All of this his is being done openly, either announced in patch notes (new packs, enemy damage boosts) or verbally and textually hinted (new content). It it is all salesmanship. If Bioware is correct they sell more APs and everyone wins. If they are wrong, some product manager gets chewed out and maybe fired. Again, all speculation and educated guesses on my part. Thank you for explaining that specific thought process thoroughly. They way you explained it makes sense to me and I have to admit I was a wee bit tired yesterday evening and too hung up on my consumer perspective.
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WopGnop
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: WopGnop
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Post by WopGnop on Jun 8, 2017 7:24:02 GMT
Why no Sadstorm buff?!? To keep its name true. Also, neither the App nor the Game shows any difference in the Sweeper and Cyclone damage. My Cyclone X damage is still 47 and not 74 and my Sweeper VI does 71 (supposedly it should do over 100)
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