Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 9, 2017 2:06:13 GMT
I love you.
After the reading the Kotaku article (even if it's 1/4 correct), all I have to say is thank you for making a decent game despite all the challenges presented to you. If anything, you deserve some sort of promotion or raise. You're veterans now. You're baptized by fire and I've said it before and I'll say it again:
You laid a solid foundation from which to build upon. You know what mistakes were made and how to avoid them from recurring. You're going to make new mistakes. You're only human after all. However, even your worst mistakes are better than most AAA products out there. I still believe in you because despite my anger and frustration with Andromeda's lack of polish and near-broken state at launch, I know the blame is not on you. The blame is all on your bosses, your HR and PR, but this message is about you, so I'll stay focused.
You've earned the title of BioWare 2.0. That's not a slap to the face. That's an endearing compliment. You're the upgraded version and I mean that. You're capable of doing a lot more than BioWare 1.0 ever could. They didn't survive under EA and yet you still managed to churn out a game that had more challenges surrounding it that had little to do with your pay grade. You're a tough bunch and I respect that.
For the rest of the people in the forums, there are plenty of threads already established discussing Andromeda. This thread is about the title and if I sound crazy: I don't care. I'm speaking to them from the heart.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jun 9, 2017 3:54:25 GMT
Fingers crossed they get a second chance to work on Mass Effect.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 9, 2017 4:05:35 GMT
While i echo.your sentiments whole heartedly i hope they learned to push for more time for editing and polish rather then pushing out an incomplete product because EA says now is the time.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Bottom
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No.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 9, 2017 4:21:52 GMT
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Post by projectpatdc on Jun 9, 2017 5:15:07 GMT
Yeah LETS GOOOOOOOO!!!
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Post by Serza on Jun 9, 2017 7:28:54 GMT
Wait. You're actually serious.
Wow.
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Post by unwanted on Jun 9, 2017 7:33:00 GMT
Wait. You're actually serious. Wow. Narr! It's sarcasm at it's most profound.
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Post by Serza on Jun 9, 2017 7:34:00 GMT
Wait. You're actually serious. Wow. Narr! It's sarcasm at it's most profound. Oh. I'm sorry. My sarcasm tends to go towards the "You're stupid" spectrum. Of course, you only know that if you're clever, but you're a clever one, aren't you?
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alihou
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by alihou on Jun 9, 2017 15:54:09 GMT
If that article proved one thing, it's that EA wasn't really to blame for this game...well there is still frostbite... Bioware just wasted too much time experimenting and drama within the company. It seemed they lacked focus on what they really wanted to do. I don't blame the people who worked on the game, I blame the management and people who were responsible for the direction of this game.
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Post by Warrick on Jun 9, 2017 15:55:20 GMT
*Portal turret voice* I don't hate you.
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Post by abaris on Jun 9, 2017 16:07:09 GMT
While i echo.your sentiments whole heartedly i hope they learned to push for more time for editing and polish rather then pushing out an incomplete product because EA says now is the time. I share OPs sentiment. But pushing for more time isn't something in todays shareholder business. This is a product tied to a business plan that has to be ready at a certain deadline to meet certain requirements. These being fiscal years, shareholder expectations and bonusses. That's they pushed Dylan back for another fiscal year is quite telling. Usually something like that doesn't happen unless it's an emergency.
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on Jun 9, 2017 16:41:38 GMT
I think the one lesson they need to take away is not biting off more than they can handle...a reoccurring problem extending way back. And put a dictator in charge. Too many leaders and too much hand holding creates more problems.
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Post by laudable11 on Jun 9, 2017 16:50:43 GMT
If they keep everyone and dump the writers, I'd be content.
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#more Asari
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 9, 2017 16:53:28 GMT
If they keep everyone and dump the writers, I'd be content. Exactly my own thing too. Everything else has a great foundation to it but the writing team showed a lack of creativity and rehashed stuff that's been done in their own previous games and actually made it worse.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 16:57:45 GMT
I love you.After the reading the Kotaku article (even if it's 1/4 correct), all I have to say is thank you for making a decent game despite all the challenges presented to you. If anything, you deserve some sort of promotion or raise. You're veterans now. You're baptized by fire and I've said it before and I'll say it again: You laid a solid foundation from which to build upon. You know what mistakes were made and how to avoid them from recurring. You're going to make new mistakes. You're only human after all. However, even your worst mistakes are better than most AAA products out there. I still believe in you because despite my anger and frustration with Andromeda's lack of polish and near-broken state at launch, I know the blame is not on you. The blame is all on your bosses, your HR and PR, but this message is about you, so I'll stay focused. You've earned the title of BioWare 2.0. That's not a slap to the face. That's an endearing compliment. You're the upgraded version and I mean that. You're capable of doing a lot more than BioWare 1.0 ever could. They didn't survive under EA and yet you still managed to churn out a game that had more challenges surrounding it that had little to do with your pay grade. You're a tough bunch and I respect that.
For the rest of the people in the forums, there are plenty of threads already established discussing Andromeda. This thread is about the title and if I sound crazy: I don't care. I'm speaking to them from the heart.
Absolutely. They sort of remind me the Ryder Jr's crew themselves. Not only they saved the day, but did it with style and panache, and did it in their own way. The guts of the game that went underappreciated, and mentioned in one-liners after endless bashing are amazing. Andromeda made by the junior crew impressed me far more than what the veterans put together with Inquisition.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 9, 2017 17:56:47 GMT
If they keep everyone and dump the writers, I'd be content. Exactly my own thing too. Everything else has a great foundation to it but the writing team showed a lack of creativity and rehashed stuff that's been done in their own previous games and actually made it worse. I'm pretty sure the writing will improve to please everyone
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Uncle Cyan
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 9, 2017 18:03:31 GMT
Exactly my own thing too. Everything else has a great foundation to it but the writing team showed a lack of creativity and rehashed stuff that's been done in their own previous games and actually made it worse. I'm pretty sure the writing will improve to please everyone I agree and as it is, it's okay. It's still miles better than other games. What it lacked was polishing coming out of the sound booth. That's not the writer's fault. Sorry, that's on the lead and we all know how the development process went. If I'm picturing this correctly, the writers must've have written several drafts and by then, who's going to polish anything with that clock ticking? It was a bad (no, bullcrap) situation and we still got a good game by BioWare 1.0 standards. However, the new baseline for Frostbite and BioWare 2.0 is a solid 7 and with DLC to plug in holes, it's going to be an 8 or even a 9. This game should've been cancelled, but the developers made it happen. I also had some reservations about passion and soul. The developers that did all the REAL work had to have it and just did what they could to make it work. To quote Admiral Anderson, "I'm proud of you."
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Uncle Cyan
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Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 9, 2017 18:38:43 GMT
I think the one lesson they need to take away is not biting off more than they can handle...a reoccurring problem extending way back. And put a dictator in charge. Too many leaders and too much hand holding creates more problems. Exactly. I always preach that the only effective way to lead, is to lead from the front. You don't necessarily need the leader for every project. I think these lower-level guys deserve a chance to lead because they know how INCREDIBLY F***ED UP leading from behind or by committee turns out. I also think that all the work should stay in North America. I'm not against Austria or any other country. I'm saying the game was made in Edmonton and Montreal and all the work should stay there. I think EA has gotten super cheap considering $40 million over five years. That's pathetic. Poland raised $250 million for CDPR. WTF!?! WTF!?! WTF?!? A lot of the issues would've been worked out with having talent and coordination within a time zone of each other. So damn cheap. And yet we still got Andromeda and yo, patched up, it's good. Add the DLC and it will be great. No doubt.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 9, 2017 18:50:52 GMT
While i echo.your sentiments whole heartedly i hope they learned to push for more time for editing and polish rather then pushing out an incomplete product because EA says now is the time. I share OPs sentiment. But pushing for more time isn't something in todays shareholder business. This is a product tied to a business plan that has to be ready at a certain deadline to meet certain requirements. These being fiscal years, shareholder expectations and bonusses. That's they pushed Dylan back for another fiscal year is quite telling. Usually something like that doesn't happen unless it's an emergency. EA gave DA I two delays. As you said they've already given Dylan a delay...maybe. And they gave MEA no delays. Maybe one. DA I and Dylan are Edmonton...this leads me to conclude the following was likely. 1. Since Montreal is a new studio they were trying to push to please the boss because rather then know when to ask for more time. The abrupt announcement of its official launch date. -Or- Since Montreal is a new studio EA didn't really trust them so even when they asked ea was like 'no you've had five years to work on this get it out now' Andromeda s rough marketing campaign is evidence of that. And under no circumstances fire the writers.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 9, 2017 19:00:23 GMT
If they keep everyone and dump the writers, I'd be content. I know where you're coming from, but someone has to be the editor. If the leads kept changing and the focus was in every freaking direction, how do you write anything that will work without serious polishing? It's impossible. The revolving door of leads and the toxic atmosphere means those guys pulled out a small miracle. The jackals feasted though. Many of us felt cheated of passion and soul. Looking at it now, that's what saved it from being a non-title.
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Post by abaris on Jun 9, 2017 19:01:06 GMT
EA gave DA I two delays. As you said they've already given Dylan a delay...maybe. And they gave MEA no delays. Maybe one. DA I and Dylan are Edmonton...this leads me to conclude the following was likely. And still it was published in the same planned fiscal year. So these delays don't hurt any plan. Pushing a game back for a whole fiscal year is a different matter entirely.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 9, 2017 19:03:07 GMT
Couldn't agree more. Despite everything that happened, ME:A has some great potential and the weaknesses that are there should not be that hard to fix in a future game. The core functionalities work. The gameplay is solid, the tech is in place now. Time to fine tune the content.
If they can get their dev schedules figured out better next time and set themselves more achievable goals, I am sure they can create an excellent game on the basis of this foundation.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 9, 2017 19:19:41 GMT
EA gave DA I two delays. As you said they've already given Dylan a delay...maybe. And they gave MEA no delays. Maybe one. DA I and Dylan are Edmonton...this leads me to conclude the following was likely. And still it was published in the same planned fiscal year. So these delays don't hurt any plan. Pushing a game back for a whole fiscal year is a different matter entirely. This is all on the leads that left, quit or failed. EA gave them plenty of time... too much time in retrospect. It should have been: Three years and a budget of $120 million in my personal opinion. And that $120 should have their own controlled, registration-required forums. That way all the feedback can be weighed against playing time and achievements. It's a sound investment. Word of mouth still matters. The negative karma that surrounds EA and BioWare in general is mostly through word of mouth. Five years and they totally blew the time experimenting with a $40 million budget. That's hubris at the casino. However, those people are long gone. Unfortunately, so is a lot of talent and that's going to come back to bite them later. When I think on this, the people that remained are who matters right now. They're the veterans that salvaged this mess. They made a 7 using the most complicated engine that was intended for third-person shooters and is adapting it to be an RPG machine. They're doing it, but not at the pace old fans want because we're still using the old canvas (older, in-house engines or Unreal) as the baseline. If you start with Frostbite, it's Inquisition and that game earned a vanilla 7 in my opinion. After the DLC, it was a solid 9. I already stated why it got a 7, but the DLC improved on it each time and it earned GOTY in my opinion. Andromeda will be no different. It just won't get any love because the release was such a loud train wreck. It's not the lower-level guys. They deserve better than what they've been getting.
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
Posts: 2,207 Likes: 3,214
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Post by helios969 on Jun 9, 2017 21:03:45 GMT
I think the one lesson they need to take away is not biting off more than they can handle...a reoccurring problem extending way back. And put a dictator in charge. Too many leaders and too much hand holding creates more problems. Exactly. I always preach that the only effective way to lead, is to lead from the front. You don't necessarily need the leader for every project. I think these lower-level guys deserve a chance to lead because they know how INCREDIBLY F***ED UP leading from behind or by committee turns out. I also think that all the work should stay in North America. I'm not against Austria or any other country. I'm saying the game was made in Edmonton and Montreal and all the work should stay there. I think EA has gotten super cheap considering $40 million over five years. That's pathetic. Poland raised $250 million for CDPR. WTF!?! WTF!?! WTF?!? A lot of the issues would've been worked out with having talent and coordination within a time zone of each other. So damn cheap. And yet we still got Andromeda and yo, patched up, it's good. Add the DLC and it will be great. No doubt. Yeah, that budget really pissed me off. That would pay the employees (some 5000) where I work salary for a week. Hell, I bet our electricity bill costs that per month. If people had any concept of how little 40 million over 4-5 years is, they'd be praising the crap out of the development team. Basically, people talking crap are ignorant of real world difficulties of creating a product...and first and foremost in this world, it takes money.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 9, 2017 21:11:20 GMT
Exactly. I always preach that the only effective way to lead, is to lead from the front. You don't necessarily need the leader for every project. I think these lower-level guys deserve a chance to lead because they know how INCREDIBLY F***ED UP leading from behind or by committee turns out. I also think that all the work should stay in North America. I'm not against Austria or any other country. I'm saying the game was made in Edmonton and Montreal and all the work should stay there. I think EA has gotten super cheap considering $40 million over five years. That's pathetic. Poland raised $250 million for CDPR. WTF!?! WTF!?! WTF?!? A lot of the issues would've been worked out with having talent and coordination within a time zone of each other. So damn cheap. And yet we still got Andromeda and yo, patched up, it's good. Add the DLC and it will be great. No doubt. Yeah, that budget really pissed me off. That would pay the employees (some 5000) where I work salary for a week. Hell, I bet our electricity bill costs that per month. If people had any concept of how little 40 million over 4-5 years is, they'd be praising the crap out of the development team. Basically, people talking crap are ignorant of real world difficulties of creating a product...and first and foremost in this world, it takes money. EA needs to bet high again and expect modest returns because BioWare can't undo all the damage EA has created. BioWare has to succeed despite EA. EA, Enthusiasm Annihilated.
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