Beerfish
N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,191 Likes: 36,397
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beerfish
https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on Sept 16, 2016 15:58:54 GMT
Our father? Our sister? Our love interest?
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You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
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Post by General Mahad on Sept 16, 2016 17:09:09 GMT
IMO the Father will be the Renegade pushing for a forceful conquest of Andromeda while our other sibling will be the paragon diplomat. We stand in the middle and we will have to decide to side with either the father or the other sibling. The person we choose to side with survive the other one die. It shouldn't be as binary as that though. It should be a difference in objective, methods, and allies and not just personalities.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,831 Likes: 13,476
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Heimdall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 16, 2016 17:43:14 GMT
My current theory is that the father will have gone missing and searching for him will be a major part of the initial thrust of the plot.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 16, 2016 19:43:02 GMT
Oh I rather like that idea. I mean especially since in my theory I am not sure whether or not having your father and sibling being potential badguys would really work all that well. Considering having differing \enemy factions might be a little hard to pull off.
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Post by Ahriman on Sept 16, 2016 20:30:41 GMT
My current theory is that the father will have gone missing and searching for him will be a major part of the initial thrust of the plot. And then we find out he's gone rogue. Pretty standard trope and pretty possible. I'm actually not against it, as long as it's done good. Just don't force on my PC some paternal feelings and family drama without my input.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 16, 2016 21:01:59 GMT
My current theory is that the father will have gone missing and searching for him will be a major part of the initial thrust of the plot. And then we find out he's gone rogue. Pretty standard trope and pretty possible. I'm actually not against it, as long as it's done good. Just don't force on my PC some paternal feelings and family drama without my input. in dai you could choose how you felt about your family.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 17, 2016 0:10:31 GMT
And then we find out he's gone rogue. Pretty standard trope and pretty possible. I'm actually not against it, as long as it's done good. Just don't force on my PC some paternal feelings and family drama without my input. in dai you could choose how you felt about your family. In DAI your family also never appeared in the game. That doesn't work when they are actual characters you'll interact with.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 17, 2016 0:21:36 GMT
That's one of my biggest fears with them doing this sibling thing. It is giving each sex a canon personality, meaning if you play them differently than you are not playing them the right way, or they may even limit your options based on this canon personality they wish to have. This shouldn't really be much of an issue. BioWare even when they have had their own canon have been very...acknowledging...of those who have a different point of view and want to play their character however. Oh, how so? I see their track record being more the opposite. Yes their expanded stuff like the books and comics mostly follow just their canon, but the games themselves on multiple occasions force you to play certain ways and ignore your canon. A couple examples is you joining Cerberus in ME2 with practically no protest, or how in DAI they had Hawke be a certain way regardless of how your Hawke was in DA2. That's one of my biggest fears with them doing this sibling thing. It is giving each sex a canon personality, meaning if you play them differently than you are not playing them the right way, or they may even limit your options based on this canon personality they wish to have. Even if I preset my Shepard to be a Earthborn ruthless asshole, I could make her go all paragon diring the game if I so chose to. Choices are always limited anyway and there's no right or wrong way to play ME games. I don't think it will be different here. You might start with a somewhat set personality, but it's the event and choices you will make that further shape that personality. Some options might be not available to MRyder and vice-versa, I actually find it more interesting. More doors to open. If I may take the Witcher 3 as an exemple: Geralt has a very set and strong personality. Yet you're still free to make your choices which will end up in three different endings. I like all three endings (with a preference with the middle one). All three give me a sense of closure and satisfaction. There's no right or wrong way, except if you're angling for one particular ending, and then you choices will indeed be somewhat limited, but that actually has nothing to do with the protagonist's initial personality. Not the same thing. Shepard's backstory almost never came into play, only coming up once in a quest and a few times in dialogue. Having the other protagonist be a canon NPC is different since they'll be playing an active part in the game so isn't left to interpretation. Also, options being locked away based on sex is an absolutely terrifying thought and goes against everything a RPG should strive for. You using The Witcher franchise as an example doesn't give me hope, for I have a very negative opinion about that franchise and would like Bioware to take as little from it as possible.
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fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by fade9wayz on Sept 17, 2016 10:19:01 GMT
@ Hanako Ikezawa I have to point out that so far, the other sibling playing an active part in the game is still pure speculation. What has been confirmed is that they will be somewhere in the cluster, doing their thing. We don't know yet the extent of interaction the two protagonists may have. For all we know, it might only be a mail here and there, the way Shepard's mother contacted him/her if you chose spacer as background. If that is the case, your interpretation of their respective personalities wouldn't be influenced by a canon. If they are more actively involved in the game, then yes, I would expect they will have a sort of canon personality, which we may or may not be able to influence. I'm okay with either scenarii, I do understand it won't be to everyone's taste though -shrugs- Oh, and I wasn't suggesting options should be locked based on sex, but based on two different personalities, that happen to be of different gender. It's not like I have canon first names for them, So MRyder and FRyder it is for the time being. Or BroRyder and SisRyder (but somehow that sounds worse...). For me it's not different than having dialogue options locked away if you didn't chose another race than human, or chose another class than mage in DAs. You not liking the Witcher franchise has mo bearing on the fact the gamer's decisions weren't influenced by his canon (not that I have read the books, I wouldn't know what the canon is). You can choose to be a merciless killer towards various sentient beasts, or you can choose to spare them. You can go all over-protective papa-bear on Ciri, or let her make her own decisions and support her. There are a lot things I don't like in the Witcher 3, most notably it's combat that I find rather boring and casualized, or the fact it's an open world, but I can't fault the dialogues options offered. I used Geralt only to show a case where freedom of choices was still preserved despite the character having a personality that is way more canon than anything Shepard was and Ryders bro and sis will most likely ever be. Take that as you will, reassuring you is not my responsability after all.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 17, 2016 19:36:45 GMT
Those two examples aren't really good examples considering you could protest Cerberus in both ME 2 and ME 3 and protest 'joining' them to the point where you can make clear in no uncertain terms that you are just using them for their resources. And the Hawke scenario does not really work either consideing Hawke was no longer our character. Which just goes to the point of what is, one possible, scenario for ME A. Like Fade pointed out, whatever these characters do outside of our control is effectively their choice, we can only have control of them when we are playing as them.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 17, 2016 20:14:54 GMT
@ Hanako Ikezawa I have to point out that so far, the other sibling playing an active part in the game is still pure speculation. What has been confirmed is that they will be somewhere in the cluster, doing their thing. We don't know yet the extent of interaction the two protagonists may have. For all we know, it might only be a mail here and there, the way Shepard's mother contacted him/her if you chose spacer as background. If that is the case, your interpretation of their respective personalities wouldn't be influenced by a canon. If they are more actively involved in the game, then yes, I would expect they will have a sort of canon personality, which we may or may not be able to influence. I'm okay with either scenarii, I do understand it won't be to everyone's taste though -shrugs- Oh, and I wasn't suggesting options should be locked based on sex, but based on two different personalities, that happen to be of different gender. It's not like I have canon first names for them, So MRyder and FRyder it is for the time being. Or BroRyder and SisRyder (but somehow that sounds worse...). For me it's not different than having dialogue options locked away if you didn't chose another race than human, or chose another class than mage in DAs. You not liking the Witcher franchise has mo bearing on the fact the gamer's decisions weren't influenced by his canon (not that I have read the books, I wouldn't know what the canon is). You can choose to be a merciless killer towards various sentient beasts, or you can choose to spare them. You can go all over-protective papa-bear on Ciri, or let her make her own decisions and support her. There are a lot things I don't like in the Witcher 3, most notably it's combat that I find rather boring and casualized, or the fact it's an open world, but I can't fault the dialogues options offered. I used Geralt only to show a case where freedom of choices was still preserved despite the character having a personality that is way more canon than anything Shepard was and Ryders bro and sis will most likely ever be. Take that as you will, reassuring you is not my responsability after all. It may be speculation, but it is also logical deduction. It is only logical our sibling is going to play a big role in this game, since if they were just going to send us mail or do what Hannah Shepard did there is no point in making the sex we don't choose to play as becoming our sibling. Having personalities locked to a gender is exactly what I am afraid of. That means if you want to play that personality, you would be forced to play a certain sex. Say the male Ryder is more a Renegade and the female Ryder more a Paragon. So if a player wants to have a more Paragon personality, they are forced to play as a female. I understand options being locked if you aren't a certain class, like how if you were an Engineer you could do a special interrupt in the Omega DLC, but things should not be locked out for a player because of what sex the protagonist is. Those two examples aren't really good examples considering you could protest Cerberus in both ME 2 and ME 3 and protest 'joining' them to the point where you can make clear in no uncertain terms that you are just using them for their resources. And the Hawke scenario does not really work either consideing Hawke was no longer our character. Which just goes to the point of what is, one possible, scenario for ME A. Like Fade pointed out, whatever these characters do outside of our control is effectively their choice, we can only have control of them when we are playing as them. No, I see those as perfectly valid examples. You are still forced to work with Cerberus an entire game despite how you feel about the organization, which is an extremely limiting choice and one of many that Bioware does with Shepard, both in actions and personality. As for Hawke no longer being our character, the same applies to the sex we don't choose becoming an NPC instead of a PC and Bioware forcing us to see what they consider the right way to play them. Plus Hawke was still our character, considering we still chose what they looked like. It's just Bioware didn't give a darn about how the player played Hawke or Shepard, so changed our character to fit their story. That is something that should be shunned, not replicated.
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I was called Ryder before it was cool... ...I'd love to, you know, be social and things.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Sept 18, 2016 6:10:36 GMT
I'd hate that. It's different with Shepard because we get to choose from 3 backgrounds and 3 reputations regardless of gender choice. They were their own options, they weren't arbitrarily tied to another option. It would be like having race determine the Inquisitor's or Warden's personality in DA. Or closer to home, it would be like having class determine Shep/Ryder's personality. It shouldn't. This was just an extreme exemple of a RPG with a set protagonist with a strong personality. There's a spectrum between this and the almost blank personality of the Warden or Inquisitor. If I had to illustrate this in term of scripted characterization depth, it would be like this: Geralt......................................................................Shepard...............Warden/Inquisitor........Paper RPG character. As for set personalities, I find it easier to get attached to characters who have at least a modicum of personality. I couldn't care less about the Warden and Inquisitor to be honest. To each their own. My post wasn't really about how much of a preset personality vs. blank slate a protagonist is, it was specifically about that personality changing depending on which gender you choose to play as. I, like Hanako, think that's a crime against roleplaying. No matter how much preset personality Ryder has, that shouldn't be different depending on which gender you choose any more than which class or which hair colour. in dai you could choose how you felt about your family. In DAI your family also never appeared in the game. That doesn't work when they are actual characters you'll interact with. Well, I wouldn't say it doesn't work, it's just harder. And Bioware doesn't always like to do things if they're hard. Oh, and I wasn't suggesting options should be locked based on sex, but based on two different personalities, that happen to be of different gender. It's not like I have canon first names for them, So MRyder and FRyder it is for the time being. Or BroRyder and SisRyder (but somehow that sounds worse...). For me it's not different than having dialogue options locked away if you didn't chose another race than human, or chose another class than mage in DAs. Here's the thing, though: Certain dialogues being available to different races in DA isn't actually because of the race itself, it's because of the background that comes with the race. Knowledge that background would have that others would not. Same with a mage/non-mage. You lived a different life. But neither of these are comparable to gender, because gender shouldn't change your background in an RPG, in my opinion.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 18, 2016 6:31:21 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>
The up thread speculations are fun. However, if we speculate Ryder's role with the Survey Leak:
You are a pathfinder, a combat trained but un-tested explorer leading an expedition into the Helius cluster to establish a new home for humanity. As you explore this sprawling series of solar systems (over 4x the size of Mass Effect 3), collecting resources and building colonies, you will encounter the savagery of untamed lands in the form of cut-throat outlaws and warring alien races. To survive and colonize the wild reaches of space, you will need to grow your arsenal, your ship, your crew and make strategic (and often uneasy) alliances to fight against increasingly menacing foes. Along the way, you will encounter the remains of a once powerful and mysterious alien race, the Remnant, whose forgotten technology holds the key to gaining power in this region of the galaxy. As you uncover who the Remnant were, and the mysteries their ruins contain, you are drawn into a violent race to find the source of their forgotten technology that will determine the fate of humanity.
Junior has no time for daddy issues.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Sept 18, 2016 8:02:12 GMT
Male Ryder hates being called "Junior" by his father and adopted the name of his favourite childhood pet... Indy-spired headcanon accepted.
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fade9wayz
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: Aresis01
Posts: 190 Likes: 286
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fade9wayz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by fade9wayz on Sept 18, 2016 8:30:12 GMT
It may be speculation, but it is also logical deduction. It is only logical our sibling is going to play a big role in this game, since if they were just going to send us mail or do what Hannah Shepard did there is no point in making the sex we don't choose to play as becoming our sibling. Having personalities locked to a gender is exactly what I am afraid of. That means if you want to play that personality, you would be forced to play a certain sex. Say the male Ryder is more a Renegade and the female Ryder more a Paragon. So if a player wants to have a more Paragon personality, they are forced to play as a female. I understand options being locked if you aren't a certain class, like how if you were an Engineer you could do a special interrupt in the Omega DLC, but things should not be locked out for a player because of what sex the protagonist is. I will still wait and see. Speculation is all fun and all, but I will avoid jumping to conclusions on that matter (mainly because in the past I have often been proven wrong when I made claims without enough evidence to back them up. So now I try and stop myself from doing so whenever I can keep a cool head ) . We'll see how BW will play out the siblings interactions. As for your other concern, again, you could start off spacer/war hero with Shepard and still play them as renegade as they come. I can see and not see why you would feel compelled to stick to the 'canon' starting personality, if that makes sense. I can understand the appeal to have the character being close to the one imagined by the author, on the other end, it's still just that. A starting personality that we will shape through our choices. Hopefully, both protagonists can be influenced during the game and even during the character creation (see below my answer to Bansheeownage). We'll have to wait for more information. My post wasn't really about how much of a preset personality vs. blank slate a protagonist is, it was specifically about that personality changing depending on which gender you choose to play as. I, like Hanako, think that's a crime against roleplaying. No matter how much preset personality Ryder has, that shouldn't be different depending on which gender you choose any more than which class or which hair colour. (snip) Here's the thing, though: Certain dialogues being available to different races in DA isn't actually because of the race itself, it's because of the background that comes with the race. Knowledge that background would have that others would not. Same with a mage/non-mage. You lived a different life. But neither of these are comparable to gender, because gender shouldn't change your background in an RPG, in my opinion. I agree that gender shouldn't change a background for a same character, but background should and must be different for two different characters, regardless of their gender. Otherwise it's extremely poor writing, even more stupid than the Lazarus project and even the endings,and it doesn't bode well for the rest of the game. And that's what we have here. Two different protagonists, not alternate versions of one another. For all we know so far, we might be able to decide which background each kid has before starting the game. I don't know, we'll see. I just think it's too soon (or too late since at this point such game mechanics probably can't be altered anymore) to start digging trenches in a fit of worry.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2016 10:13:39 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> The up thread speculations are fun. However, if we speculate Ryder's role with the Survey Leak: You are a pathfinder, a combat trained but un-tested explorer leading an expedition into the Helius cluster to establish a new home for humanity. As you explore this sprawling series of solar systems (over 4x the size of Mass Effect 3), collecting resources and building colonies, you will encounter the savagery of untamed lands in the form of cut-throat outlaws and warring alien races. To survive and colonize the wild reaches of space, you will need to grow your arsenal, your ship, your crew and make strategic (and often uneasy) alliances to fight against increasingly menacing foes. Along the way, you will encounter the remains of a once powerful and mysterious alien race, the Remnant, whose forgotten technology holds the key to gaining power in this region of the galaxy. As you uncover who the Remnant were, and the mysteries their ruins contain, you are drawn into a violent race to find the source of their forgotten technology that will determine the fate of humanity.
Junior has no time for daddy issues.
But what could be more of an uneasy alliance then having to chose between your father and your 'sibling' because you fear one of them may be in the wrong?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 18, 2016 19:13:22 GMT
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"What if the central conflict in Andromeda, the big choice, the driving point between the plot is the Protag Ryder having to chose between their father's point of view on how to deal with the alien populations, and their other siblings?"
Hm... "... deal with alien populations..."
According to Flynn, humanity fled the MW to make a new home in Andromeda. The mission (ARKs) is stacked with the necessities for colonisation and not for conquest. N7 is a trail blazer with a fixed number of non replaceable assets, at his disposal.
The Pathfinder's training is to find, colonise, defend and supports their growth. To that end, Ryder must make both strategic and tactical decisions to support that mission objective. The latter become crucial, when met by warring space-faring races, the Khet and pirates. N7 is in no position to go all Conquistadores. Besides, how do you deal with alien populations? Planetary bombardment?... 'cause you certainly don't have the manpower or the infrastructure to support this path.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Sept 18, 2016 22:11:41 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> "What if the central conflict in Andromeda, the big choice, the driving point between the plot is the Protag Ryder having to chose between their father's point of view on how to deal with the alien populations, and their other siblings?"
Hm... "... deal with alien populations..." According to Flynn, humanity fled the MW to make a new home in Andromeda. The mission (ARKs) is stacked with the necessities for colonisation and not for conquest. N7 is a trail blazer with a fixed number of non replaceable assets, at his disposal. The Pathfinder's training is to find, colonise, defend and supports their growth. To that end, Ryder must make both strategic and tactical decisions to support that mission objective. The latter become crucial, when met by warring space-faring races, the Khet and pirates. N7 is in no position to go all Conquistadores. Besides, how do you deal with alien populations? Planetary bombardment?... 'cause you certainly don't have the manpower or the infrastructure to support this path. You can always go full krogan and drop some asteroids over your enemy
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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2016 22:30:35 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> "What if the central conflict in Andromeda, the big choice, the driving point between the plot is the Protag Ryder having to chose between their father's point of view on how to deal with the alien populations, and their other siblings?"
Hm... "... deal with alien populations..." According to Flynn, humanity fled the MW to make a new home in Andromeda. The mission (ARKs) is stacked with the necessities for colonisation and not for conquest. N7 is a trail blazer with a fixed number of non replaceable assets, at his disposal. The Pathfinder's training is to find, colonise, defend and supports their growth. To that end, Ryder must make both strategic and tactical decisions to support that mission objective. The latter become crucial, when met by warring space-faring races, the Khet and pirates. N7 is in no position to go all Conquistadores. Besides, how do you deal with alien populations? Planetary bombardment?... 'cause you certainly don't have the manpower or the infrastructure to support this path. There are other forms of conquest. Sure I do not think he will want to take over alien races left and right and bring them under the heal of humanity but he could still advance an Earth First, or MW first, message and support that aim through the things he knows how to do. Special Forces. Covert Ops. Targeted assassinations. Maybe playing the aliens off one another? I believe you are taking my words on dealing with alien populations too literally. I do not mean to suggest how we will deal with them but that the question will come up in the Andromeda narrative...one way or another most likely...and the question is how to deal with them. The theory I am advancing is this conflict will be personified in you having to chose between your sibling's view pont on dealing with the alien menace and that of your father.
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MasterJukes
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 108 Likes: 177
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by MasterJukes on Sept 19, 2016 1:03:21 GMT
I say all 3 are on the same ship heading to Andromeda. Dad might be leading folks to make sure the area is clear of any threats that would be safe to build a colony. Once done, his child leads an exploration team to gather resources or at least fine spots that contain vast amounts of resources. While exploring, they happen to come across a vault of some sort. I don't know. There's a number of scenarios that are possible. I like this one.
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 19, 2016 4:13:42 GMT
This topic with our father being more human-centric about the colonization reminds me of this commercial:
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inherit
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Dec 17, 2018 14:01:15 GMT
1,803
Ahriman
1,503
August 2016
ahriman
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Post by Ahriman on Sept 19, 2016 7:14:28 GMT
Daddy Ryder will be busy throwing humans off a cliff with his krogan buddy, so I doubt he'll be human-centric, because I don't remember krogan cerberus operatives.
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inherit
1033
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36,880
colfoley
19,119
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2016 7:47:01 GMT
Daddy Ryder will be busy throwing humans off a cliff with his krogan buddy, so I doubt he'll be human-centric, because I don't remember krogan cerberus operatives. I did speculate he could be MW centric.
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