Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,884 Likes: 49,347
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Post by Iakus on Jun 17, 2017 20:00:40 GMT
Don't know obsidian but I'd doubt they'd make the games with Biowares "touch" regardless if they lack RPG features (which has been an issue dating long ago, it's not a recent issue). What is this illusive "BioWare's touch" you are referencing? Is it the absolutely banal story that has been repeated in every single BioWare game? Is it the incessant need to create a dating simulator? Is it where BioWare touched you inappropriately? The world shall never know! Their RPG titles are falling back on the old style RPG gameplay, using isometric user interface; Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny. I've seen gameplay of these two, there's little voice acting. What little there are is never complete; meaning you hear the VA say part of the dialogue and you read the rest of it. There is a lot of text dialogue and codex (POE has a lot) which means you spend most of the time reading. That's hardly immersive, imo. I definitely do not want DA to go that way. Oh the horror! TEXT DIALOG AND READING?! How can they expect people to be able to READ text dialog! How dare they assume people's education! You're right. Obsidian has surpassed Bioware in making RPGs
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 17, 2017 20:40:12 GMT
Guys; gaming is fucking dead. DEAD as a door nail. Good things will likely not happen much anymore. Day 1 DLC, microtransactions & MMO business models are the future. Just accept it or stop buying new (broken) incomplete products /thread
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 17, 2017 21:35:42 GMT
Don't know obsidian but I'd doubt they'd make the games with Biowares "touch" regardless if they lack RPG features (which has been an issue dating long ago, it's not a recent issue). What is this illusive "BioWare's touch" you are referencing? Is it the absolutely banal story that has been repeated in every single BioWare game? Is it the incessant need to create a dating simulator? Is it where BioWare touched you inappropriately? The world shall never know! Their RPG titles are falling back on the old style RPG gameplay, using isometric user interface; Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny. I've seen gameplay of these two, there's little voice acting. What little there are is never complete; meaning you hear the VA say part of the dialogue and you read the rest of it. There is a lot of text dialogue and codex (POE has a lot) which means you spend most of the time reading. That's hardly immersive, imo. I definitely do not want DA to go that way. Oh the horror! TEXT DIALOG AND READING?! How can they expect people to be able to READ text dialog! How dare they assume people's education! Never said it's illusions but even a bad bioware still does what they do best more than most. i think you're reaching if romances are one of your issues with it, I mean it's a pointless addition but there's far worse such as their loss if RPG elements and shoddy stories.
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Post by Lorn on Jun 17, 2017 21:40:53 GMT
What is this illusive "BioWare's touch" you are referencing? Is it the absolutely banal story that has been repeated in every single BioWare game? Is it the incessant need to create a dating simulator? Is it where BioWare touched you inappropriately? The world shall never know! Oh the horror! TEXT DIALOG AND READING?! How can they expect people to be able to READ text dialog! How dare they assume people's education! Never said it's illusions but even a bad bioware still does what they do best more than most. i think you're reaching if romances are one of your issues with it, I mean it's a pointless addition but there's far worse such as their loss if RPG elements and shoddy stories.Pointless romances, the loss of RPG elements, and shoddy stories are BioWare's "touch". Of course, their fan base just cares about whose private parts they can watch a 3D Model fondle.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 17, 2017 22:53:38 GMT
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Jun 17, 2017 23:49:44 GMT
Their RPG titles are falling back on the old style RPG gameplay, using isometric user interface; Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny. I've seen gameplay of these two, there's little voice acting. What little there are is never complete; meaning you hear the VA say part of the dialogue and you read the rest of it. There is a lot of text dialogue and codex (POE has a lot) which means you spend most of the time reading. That's hardly immersive, imo. I definitely do not want DA to go that way. Oh the horror! TEXT DIALOG AND READING?! How can they expect people to be able to READ text dialog! How dare they assume people's education! “Shall I compare thee to a summer's day? Thou art more lovely and more temperate: Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May, And summer's lease hath all too short a date: Sometimes too hot the eye of heaven shines, And too often is his gold complexion dimm'd: And every fair from fair sometimes declines, By chance or natures changing course untrimm'd; By thy eternal summer shall not fade, Nor lose possession of that fair thou owest; Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in his shade, When in eternal lines to time thou growest: So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this and this gives life to thee.” ... don't mind me, just having fun.
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Post by Galactic Runner on Jun 21, 2017 4:39:31 GMT
Sure, if you want a cliffhanger ending that won't be followed up on in the future.
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Post by crusty on Jun 21, 2017 5:37:42 GMT
Why should Obsidian be forced to deal with trash IPs?
That's assuming they release a game that works on launch.
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cribbian
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by cribbian on Jun 21, 2017 7:51:19 GMT
No. The cosmos demands that Obsidian make a new Vampire the Masquerade game.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jun 21, 2017 7:59:16 GMT
I want NWN 3.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jun 21, 2017 9:53:37 GMT
You're right. Obsidian has surpassed Bioware in making RPGs Bioware makes RPG`s? I thought they were making 3rd person action games with RPG elements.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jun 21, 2017 10:03:13 GMT
They should sell them to Nintendo or Ubisoft.
Square-Enix and Capcom sounds nice too.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Jun 21, 2017 11:07:02 GMT
They should sell them to Nintendo or Ubisoft. Square-Enix and Capcom sounds nice too. Is this sarcasm?
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Post by Gwydden on Jun 21, 2017 14:18:56 GMT
Obsidian does not have the money to do 3D graphics even at NWN2 level, and their own three IPs are actually better than a Dragon Age. I certainly do not want to play Mass Effect in an isometric projection. I don't mind picking an odd title from a Obsidian, but I want them to stop being treated as "make the sequel" company. Let them try their own stuff. They also need to finally learn to stick to deadlines and keep scopes under tighter control before they can get out of indie niche market. Not to mention overcome some serious writing hangups, like adding miles of useless descriptive text and treating romances with all the open-mindedness of a Victorian era old maid. I believe I've brought this up before, but there is actually a fascinating Obsidian versus Bioware face off on the romance issue (second post down, straight on til morning). Josh Sawyer was addressing the lack of romances in Pillars of Eternity and Patrick Weekes took issue with his comments. I confess I'm with Sawyer on this one, and Weekes' words illustrate my issue with his and Bioware's design philosophy. It's disappointing when a storyteller admits that escapism is their North Star.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 14:29:38 GMT
Obsidian does not have the money to do 3D graphics even at NWN2 level, and their own three IPs are actually better than a Dragon Age. I certainly do not want to play Mass Effect in an isometric projection. I don't mind picking an odd title from a Obsidian, but I want them to stop being treated as "make the sequel" company. Let them try their own stuff. They also need to finally learn to stick to deadlines and keep scopes under tighter control before they can get out of indie niche market. Not to mention overcome some serious writing hangups, like adding miles of useless descriptive text and treating romances with all the open-mindedness of a Victorian era old maid. I believe I've brought this up before, but there is actually a fascinating Obsidian versus Bioware face off on the romance issue (second post down, straight on til morning). Josh Sawyer was addressing the lack of romances in Pillars of Eternity and Patrick Weekes took issue with his comments. I confess I'm with Sawyer on this one, and Weekes' words illustrate my issue with his and Bioware's design philosophy. It's disappointing when a storyteller admits that escapism is their North Star. It's easy enough to say that romance should matter if you do it, but Obsidian's efforts in that category were by far a half-hearted "if we have to", while BioWare gave it everything they've got. I'd rather see an enthusiastic failure than close your eyes and think of the King and Country attitude. I respect not adding a romance at all. But I prefer the developer that wants me to be able to experience a grand love story that actually moved me. Along with accepting that there are plenty others that are going to feel like waste of efforts and "anime harem" to me personally. But each of them has a potential to make some other player experience a story of a living, breathing protagonist, and remember the game as an intensely personalized story totally unlike mine. i do really love it when a romance clicks in a video game.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 21, 2017 14:41:05 GMT
No. The cosmos demands that Obsidian make a new Vampire the Masquerade game. Or BW sells their IPs to Obsidian and Obsidian sells VtM to..... CDPR! Even better.
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Beerfish
N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
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Post by Beerfish on Jun 21, 2017 14:43:05 GMT
What is this a group meeting for the RPG codex or something?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 14:46:38 GMT
What is this a group meeting for the RPG codex or something? Heh. Does feel that way. Better stop participating, lol.
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Post by Gwydden on Jun 21, 2017 14:59:19 GMT
I believe I've brought this up before, but there is actually a fascinating Obsidian versus Bioware face off on the romance issue (second post down, straight on til morning). Josh Sawyer was addressing the lack of romances in Pillars of Eternity and Patrick Weekes took issue with his comments. I confess I'm with Sawyer on this one, and Weekes' words illustrate my issue with his and Bioware's design philosophy. It's disappointing when a storyteller admits that escapism is their North Star. It's easy enough to say that romance should matter if you do it, but Obsidian's efforts in that category were by far a half-hearted "if we have to", while BioWare gave it everything they've got. I'd rather see an enthusiastic failure than close your eyes and think of the King and Country attitude. I respect not adding a romance at all. But I prefer the developer that wants me to be able to experience a grand love story that actually moved me. Along with accepting that there are plenty others that are going to feel like waste of efforts and "anime harem" to me personally. But each of them has a potential to make some other player experience a story of a living, breathing protagonist, and remember the game as an intensely personalized story totally unlike mine. i do really love it when a romance clicks in a video game. And it's great that other people enjoy it. I just find it increasingly difficult to do so, when in Inquisition "romance" amounts to clicking the heart icon as many times as you can, followed by trite sentimentality that is completely interchangeable with what you can find in thousands of other love stories. Frankly, the implication that I should be engaged with nothing but silly antics and bad flirting is condescending. I consider myself a hopeless romantic, and for that very reason I don't care to be shown a rosey love story painted over in plain pastels; I know better than to fall for that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 15:30:21 GMT
It's easy enough to say that romance should matter if you do it, but Obsidian's efforts in that category were by far a half-hearted "if we have to", while BioWare gave it everything they've got. I'd rather see an enthusiastic failure than close your eyes and think of the King and Country attitude. I respect not adding a romance at all. But I prefer the developer that wants me to be able to experience a grand love story that actually moved me. Along with accepting that there are plenty others that are going to feel like waste of efforts and "anime harem" to me personally. But each of them has a potential to make some other player experience a story of a living, breathing protagonist, and remember the game as an intensely personalized story totally unlike mine. i do really love it when a romance clicks in a video game. And it's great that other people enjoy it. I just find it increasingly difficult to do so, when in Inquisition "romance" amounts to clicking the heart icon as many times as you can, followed by trite sentimentality that is completely interchangeable with what you can find in thousands of other love stories. Frankly, the implication that I should be engaged with nothing but silly antics and bad flirting is condescending. I consider myself a hopeless romantic, and for that very reason I don't care to be shown a rosey love story painted over in plain pastels; I know better than to fall for that. Well, I just accept that what does not directly speak to me may appear trite and pointless. I just stop clicking the hearts when it's not doing anything for my story. I would not have finished a Inquisition at all, if Dorian did not appeal to me on multiple levels. I was also consistently able to find a love story that fascinated me in every one of their latest seven games, except ME1, and it was not the case in Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, and KOTOR. Which does not mean I did not enjoy my adventures, I just always was that player that thought some other char should be an LI, which was way easier back then, lol, b/c it was one male per game. Yes, I think that Inquisition and Andromeda went overboard, but at its worst, it's just as good as none at all, because they took out the NPCs initiating the lovetalks, so you are not harassed by the AI, lol. all that aside, my original point remains. Obsidian has its own IPs, and they are fine. Let Obsidian do its thing and find its way. And I will make a short prayer for them getting enough capital together to license Aurora MK2 or some other 3D engine that is not as resource intensive as FB. That, to me, is going to put Obsidian forward on my list of "to buy" than slapping together something in a verse I'd been to with Bio, let alone milking the stone for a 4th or 5th game in the sequence. I think folks sometimes have those unreasonable expectation of recapturing a thrill they have experienced in the past, without crediting just how much of that thrill was due to novelty, and the seduction of the discovering something totally fresh.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jun 21, 2017 15:57:43 GMT
They should sell them to Nintendo or Ubisoft. Square-Enix and Capcom sounds nice too. Is this sarcasm? I thought about listing EA too but that would have given me away.
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Post by Gwydden on Jun 21, 2017 16:16:42 GMT
all that aside, my original point remains. Obsidian has its own IPs, and they are fine. Let Obsidian do its thing and find its way. And I will make a short prayer for them getting enough capital together to license Aurora MK2 or some other 3D engine that is not as resource intensive as FB. That, to me, is going to put Obsidian forward on my list of "to buy" than slapping together something in a verse I'd been to with Bio, let alone milking the stone for a 4th or 5th game in the sequence. I think folks sometimes have those unreasonable expectation of recapturing a thrill they have experienced in the past, without crediting just how much of that thrill was due to novelty, and the seduction of the discovering something totally fresh. Hmm. I am partial to 2D graphics and the isometric view, in part because my background is as a strategy gamer and in part because I am fond of hand-drawn animation and regret that it is being left behind by many film and video game studios. Pillars of Eternity looks gorgeous, and that's most of the unqualified praised I have about it. But even though I'm biased, I don't think I'm wrong if I state that a 3D game by Obsidian would look even more dated than their current showings. 3D graphics age much faster than 2D art; just think how Neverwinter Nights (either of them) looks much worse than Baldur's Gate (either of them). As for your last comment, are you referring to the notion that older Bioware games are better than their more recent ones? I think is undeniable that pre-2003 Bioware is a different beast from 2003-2009 Bioware, which in turn is distinct from 2010-2012 and post-2014 Bioware. Not everyone is going to be a fan of all of them. It's good that other studios are willing to continue walking along the path Bioware abandoned, for better or worse. Sure, maybe some of the talk of them jumping out of the RPG boat with Anthem is fear-mongering and fatalism, but I've seen it happen before. In the old days, Blizzard was the RTS company. Now they make shooters, MOBAs, and WoW, while classic RTS games are even more endangered than classic RPGs. Bioware may be going the same route, hence the whole "sell their stuff to Obsidian" schtick. I don't believe is a good idea either, but I understand the sentiment. I'm still waiting for Warcraft 4 and a good sequel to Dragon Age: Origins. I'm starting to think I'm unlikely to ever get either. Alas, it may soon be time to move to greener pastures.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 16:26:21 GMT
all that aside, my original point remains. Obsidian has its own IPs, and they are fine. Let Obsidian do its thing and find its way. And I will make a short prayer for them getting enough capital together to license Aurora MK2 or some other 3D engine that is not as resource intensive as FB. That, to me, is going to put Obsidian forward on my list of "to buy" than slapping together something in a verse I'd been to with Bio, let alone milking the stone for a 4th or 5th game in the sequence. I think folks sometimes have those unreasonable expectation of recapturing a thrill they have experienced in the past, without crediting just how much of that thrill was due to novelty, and the seduction of the discovering something totally fresh. Hmm. I am partial to 2D graphics and the isometric view, in part because my background is as a strategy gamer and in part because I am fond of hand-drawn animation and regret that it is being left behind by many film and video game studios. Pillars of Eternity looks gorgeous, and that's most of the unqualified praised I have about it. But even though I'm biased, I don't think I'm wrong if I state that a 3D game by Obsidian would look even more dated than their current showings. 3D graphics age much faster than 2D art; just think how Neverwinter Nights (either of them) looks much worse than Baldur's Gate (either of them). As for your last comment, are you referring to the notion that older Bioware games are better than their more recent ones? I think is undeniable that pre-2003 Bioware is a different beast from 2003-2009 Bioware, which in turn is distinct from 2010-2012 and post-2014 Bioware. Not everyone is going to be a fan of all of them. It's good that other studios are willing to continue walking along the path Bioware abandoned, for better or worse. Sure, maybe some of the talk of them jumping out of the RPG boat with Anthem is fear-mongering and fatalism, but I've seen it happen before. In the old days, Blizzard was the RTS company. Now they make shooters, MOBAs, and WoW, while classic RTS games are even more endangered than classic RPGs. Bioware may be going the same route, hence the whole "sell their stuff to Obsidian" schtick. I don't believe is a good idea either, but I understand the sentiment. I'm still waiting for Warcraft 4 and a good sequel to Dragon Age: Origins. I'm starting to think I'm unlikely to ever get either. Alas, it may soon be time to move to greener pastures. For me it's important to see my protagonist as I play. NWN1 was ugly, but JE, NWN2, Origins and DA2 - all of them have 3D graphic that I vastly prefer to isometric games with a 2D portrait I have to find on the internet from some character in a book, a photo shopped movie-star or get from a stockpile in the game. Maybe if I were an artist and could draw my character, I'd be okay with it. But as I am not an artist, a "good enough" 3D > 2D for me, plus I like the faster combat style of the DA2 or Andromeda, and characters I can build easily and they will be perfectly functional, rather than having to copy the "best build" blindly, because I can't, just can't frigging understand all the complexities of the multi-classing and interplay between the passives. The combat also looks really cool in 3D imo, and never great in 2D.
No, I am not saying that the older games are better, I think folks are nostalgic.
I played BioWare/Obsidian games in two batches.
in 1998-2006 I played Baldur's Gate 1/2, IWD1/2, NWN1 (tried, gods see I tried), JE, KOTOR 1 and NWN2 in 2013-2017 I've played KOTOR2, SWTOR, MET, DAT and Andromeda.
I felt that games are just fine & I am having as much fun with Andromeda as I did with BG2.
i don't want anyone to be like someone else, developers or players. I want choices that suit me. If not, I'll do something else.
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ApocAlypsE
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Jun 21, 2017 18:39:16 GMT
Sell the Mass Effect IP to Blizzard and see what they come up with.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jun 21, 2017 19:04:44 GMT
They should sell them to Nintendo or Ubisoft. Square-Enix and Capcom sounds nice too. I never asked for this...
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