Research point problem

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 13:36:19 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 13:36:19 GMT

I finished the game but I'm having an hard time with the Heleus Research point close to endgame. I scanned everything I could but there aren't simply enough points to research most of the things in this game. That Heleus armor is simply too expensive and as far as I can see there isn't a reliable way to get more Heleus research point through Nexus perks as it is the case with the Milky Way points.

This brought me to the next question. Is the research point mechanics adding something meaningful to the game? Is scanning outside of main quest helping the game? I find not. The research points are a chore to find and there is no reliable way to have enough of those. The scanner never really did anything meaningful outside of helping you progressing the quest.

Solutions I propose:
1) Temporary solution: Add a Nexus perk that gives you Heleus and Remnant points over time as it is with the MW.
2) Long term solution: For a next game just get rid of these research points and put licenses as it was in ME1. Ideally instead of researching the points, you just buy the license for that specific tech you want to develop. Much better in my option.

So what do you think? Did you have issues too with lacking research points?

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 13:50:44 GMT

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Post by PillarBiter on Jun 23, 2017 13:50:44 GMT

If anything I don't lack, it's heleus research points. But then again, I don't use much heleus weaponry/armor. I'm sitting on a stack of 3k, I think, in my first playthrough.

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 13:53:35 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 13:53:35 GMT

Jun 23, 2017 13:50:44 GMT PillarBiter said:

If anything I don't lack, it's heleus research points. But then again, I don't use much heleus weaponry/armor. I'm sitting on a stack of 3k, I think, in my first playthrough.

I see but the problem still stands for those that actually use them.

Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0 Deleted inherit guest@proboards.com 2543 0 Sept 29, 2024 15:28:47 GMT Deleted 0 Sept 29, 2024 15:28:47 GMT January 1970 Deleted	Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 13:56:10 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 13:56:10 GMT Another idea - Introduce a buy/sell or a barter/trade mechanic so that Ryder could convert excess points in one category to points in another.

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 14:06:56 GMT via mobile

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Post by lynx7386 on Jun 23, 2017 14:06:56 GMT

I just wish we could un-research stuff to regain the points. On my first play through I wasted a lot of research points on stuff I didn't end up really using.

Going to be starting a new game to fix that mistake

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 14:19:25 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 14:19:25 GMT

Jun 23, 2017 14:06:56 GMT lynx7386 said:

I just wish we could un-research stuff to regain the points. On my first play through I wasted a lot of research points on stuff I didn't end up really using.

Going to be starting a new game to fix that mistake

My thought about the buy/sell/trade mechanic could also be about perhaps selling any truly unwanted blueprints and, depending on which merchant(s) you sold them to could garner particular types of research points (in addition to allowing the player to just convert points for points).

Last Edit: Jun 23, 2017 14:20:57 GMT by Deleted

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 17:49:28 GMT

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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 23, 2017 17:49:28 GMT

I have a solution if you are on PC.
Otherwise my condolences.

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Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0 Deleted inherit guest@proboards.com 47 0 Sept 29, 2024 15:28:47 GMT Deleted 0 Sept 29, 2024 15:28:47 GMT January 1970 Deleted	Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 17:52:09 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 17:52:09 GMT Jun 23, 2017 17:49:28 GMT Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger said: I have a solution if you are on PC. Otherwise my condolences. I'll accept your condolences.

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 18:08:48 GMT

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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 23, 2017 18:08:48 GMT

Jun 23, 2017 17:52:09 GMT @solnebula said:

Jun 23, 2017 17:49:28 GMT Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger said:

I have a solution if you are on PC.
Otherwise my condolences.

I'll accept your condolences. :crying:

I am indeed sorry.
Was going to post the options I found but since it will not help I won't.
All I can hope for is that maybe down the line that the Frosty Editor will be able to work with consoles... in veins of ME2 maybe.

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 18:55:48 GMT melbella likes this

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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 18:55:48 GMT

OP has a really valid point about being able to get more research points. The research point system limits a player's ability to try different builds. So you have to roll through the game to get that research but if you decided to craft certain items then decide you want to try something else, without having research points, you are limited or stuck.

My thoughts on this as a way around it would be that when you break down items for mats (weapons/armor) then you also gain research points for each item you break down. There's a logic in that because taking things apart is a valid way to learn about those things, and with SAM, the items could be scanned to gain more points as part of the process. While maybe not giving a huge amount of research for each item, even 20 points each if you are breaking down lots of items would given a nice amount over time. And you could get the research based on where the item was from which would be mostly Helius with some milky way and not much remnant (if at all). Remnant ends up being rather high though by the end of the game thanks to the vaults.

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 19:42:05 GMT

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Post by Sanunes on Jun 23, 2017 19:42:05 GMT

I still don't understand the research system aside from it being a way to prevent players from experimenting with different weapons/armours. In the prior Mass Effect games I would switch out my armors and weapons to experiment with what I am using, but with Andromeda I haven't and that is a shame and I experiment with powers more since I don't want to 100% the game six or more times to unlock all the crafting options.

Edit: Typo

Last Edit: Jun 23, 2017 19:42:27 GMT by Sanunes

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Research point problem Jun 23, 2017 20:01:56 GMT via mobile

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Post by griffith82 on Jun 23, 2017 20:01:56 GMT

Yeah that does limit you but like a poster above only used a couple different armors and hardly researched weapons. But while I do consider myself a completionist getting all the armies including the ugly ones is not an issue. However I do see it as an issue for some.

rolenka N3 Posts: 451 Likes: 651 rolenka inherit Male 5240 0 Nov 10, 2017 18:10:29 GMT 651 rolenka 451 N3 Mar 20, 2017 18:06:56 GMT March 2017 rolenka	Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 0:17:35 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by rolenka on Jun 24, 2017 0:17:35 GMT As it is, your only option is strike team missions. Use the app every day. Rewards can be boxes of research points of any type at random.

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 6:29:54 GMT

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Post by effusion on Jun 24, 2017 6:29:54 GMT

I've always had plenty of research points, but I've been fairly focused on where I spent my points (pistols), pretty good about running strike teams, and have been playing pretty slowly (thus getting more strike team missions for the time I put into single player). Overall, I think the research system is flawed because it relies on certain playing habits that probably aren't the norm.

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2017 6:30:58 GMT by effusion

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 10:14:24 GMT via mobile

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Post by ProbeAway on Jun 24, 2017 10:14:24 GMT

OR they could just scrap the whole research points concept and let us create weapons and armour once we've found them and scanned them in the field. Which would make far more sense.

Scanning all those other objects could reveal new tech that translates into increases in DR, weapon damage, power recharge, etc.

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2017 10:15:51 GMT by ProbeAway

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 11:56:02 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 11:56:02 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 10:14:24 GMT ProbeAway said:

OR they could just scrap the whole research points concept and let us create weapons and armour once we've found them and scanned them in the field. Which would make far more sense.

Scanning all those other objects could reveal new tech that translates into increases in DR, weapon damage, power recharge, etc.

That's basically what the research system is already doing as you move up the ranks with each gun. The only different I can see is that, currently, you don't have to wait until you find some of the guns in the field. Your system would actually be more onerous and limiting since I still have no found some of the gun varieties in the field that I can research right now if I chose.

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 13:15:54 GMT via mobile

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Post by ProbeAway on Jun 24, 2017 13:15:54 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 11:56:02 GMT @upupaway95 said:

Jun 24, 2017 10:14:24 GMT ProbeAway said:

OR they could just scrap the whole research points concept and let us create weapons and armour once we've found them and scanned them in the field. Which would make far more sense.

Scanning all those other objects could reveal new tech that translates into increases in DR, weapon damage, power recharge, etc.

That's basically what the research system is already doing as you move up the ranks with each gun. The only different I can see is that, currently, you don't have to wait until you find some of the guns in the field. Your system would actually be more onerous and limiting since I still have no found some of the gun varieties in the field that I can research right now if I chose.

It's nothing like what I'm suggesting. I want the points scrapped altogether.

The reason you're not finding some of the guns is because they aren't there at all. Under the current system you don't need them to be available in the field because they just magically become available to research at certain stages of the game, and you improve them by using research points obtained by scanning unrelated objects. It's not particularly logical.

I'm saying that they should put all of the weapons and armour into the game, both in the field and in vendors' inventory. Once you get your hands on an item you can then craft your own enhanced versions of it using technology obtained via scanning certain objects in the game. For instance, scanning a particular Kett console might give you the tech you need to convert your shots to seeking plasma rounds.

Whether that system would be more or less grindy depends entirely on how hard they decide to make items/objects to find. It would certainly give us far more incentive to explore the open world areas.

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 14:40:21 GMT griffith82 likes this

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 14:40:21 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 13:15:54 GMT ProbeAway said:

Jun 24, 2017 11:56:02 GMT @upupaway95 said:

That's basically what the research system is already doing as you move up the ranks with each gun. The only different I can see is that, currently, you don't have to wait until you find some of the guns in the field. Your system would actually be more onerous and limiting since I still have no found some of the gun varieties in the field that I can research right now if I chose.

It's nothing like what I'm suggesting. I want the points scrapped altogether.

The reason you're not finding some of the guns is because they aren't there at all. Under the current system you don't need them to be available in the field because they just magically become available to research at certain stages of the game, and you improve them by using research points obtained by scanning unrelated objects. It's not particularly logical.

I'm saying that they should put all of the weapons and armour into the game, both in the field and in vendors' inventory. Once you get your hands on an item you can then craft your own enhanced versions of it using technology obtained via scanning certain objects in the game. For instance, scanning a particular Kett console might give you the tech you need to convert your shots to seeking plasma rounds.

Whether that system would be more or less grindy depends entirely on how hard they decide to make items/objects to find. It would certainly give us far more incentive to explore the open world areas.

With adjustments to being able to find weapons in the field, it could work, I guess. The research points, however, do accumulate from scanning so they are actually an indirect incentive to explore the world as well. Personally, I don't find scanning tedious... it is my "exploration" role play. It's my "archaelogist" Ryder figuratively sweeping away the bits of rock and stone with a brush rather than using a jackhammer all the time on a dig site. As a result, I will probably put in triple the time on this single playthrough than most other players... but I'm enjoying slowing down the pace of the game and just looking thoroughly through all the environments.

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2017 14:46:47 GMT by Deleted

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 14:56:35 GMT via mobile

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Post by griffith82 on Jun 24, 2017 14:56:35 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 14:40:21 GMT @upupaway95 said:

Jun 24, 2017 13:15:54 GMT ProbeAway said:

It's nothing like what I'm suggesting. I want the points scrapped altogether.

The reason you're not finding some of the guns is because they aren't there at all. Under the current system you don't need them to be available in the field because they just magically become available to research at certain stages of the game, and you improve them by using research points obtained by scanning unrelated objects. It's not particularly logical.

I'm saying that they should put all of the weapons and armour into the game, both in the field and in vendors' inventory. Once you get your hands on an item you can then craft your own enhanced versions of it using technology obtained via scanning certain objects in the game. For instance, scanning a particular Kett console might give you the tech you need to convert your shots to seeking plasma rounds.

Whether that system would be more or less grindy depends entirely on how hard they decide to make items/objects to find. It would certainly give us far more incentive to explore the open world areas.

With adjustments to being able to find weapons in the field, it could work, I guess. The research points, however, do accumulate from scanning so they are actually an indirect incentive to explore the world as well. Personally, I don't find scanning tedious... it is my "exploration" role play. It's my "archaelogist" Ryder figuratively sweeping away the bits of rock and stone with a brush rather than using a jackhammer all the time on a dig site. As a result, I will probably put in triple the time on this single playthrough than most other players... but I'm enjoying slowing down the pace of the game and just looking thoroughly through all the environments.

Same here. I found it fun tbh.

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 15:34:05 GMT

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Post by TheInvoker on Jun 24, 2017 15:34:05 GMT

Same problem for me.
Heleus points are not enough!. i Wasted some (lvl 1 for 3 melee weapons and 4 in Carfaon kett) but even if i didn't i couldn't have Dahn AND Heleus armor at max level.
I finished with Dhan 5, Helmet 7 and chest 5. i tthink i could have chest 7 and helmet 8 without wasting points but no more.

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 20:53:20 GMT via mobile

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Post by ProbeAway on Jun 24, 2017 20:53:20 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 14:40:21 GMT @upupaway95 said:

Jun 24, 2017 13:15:54 GMT ProbeAway said:

It's nothing like what I'm suggesting. I want the points scrapped altogether.

The reason you're not finding some of the guns is because they aren't there at all. Under the current system you don't need them to be available in the field because they just magically become available to research at certain stages of the game, and you improve them by using research points obtained by scanning unrelated objects. It's not particularly logical.

I'm saying that they should put all of the weapons and armour into the game, both in the field and in vendors' inventory. Once you get your hands on an item you can then craft your own enhanced versions of it using technology obtained via scanning certain objects in the game. For instance, scanning a particular Kett console might give you the tech you need to convert your shots to seeking plasma rounds.

Whether that system would be more or less grindy depends entirely on how hard they decide to make items/objects to find. It would certainly give us far more incentive to explore the open world areas.

With adjustments to being able to find weapons in the field, it could work, I guess. The research points, however, do accumulate from scanning so they are actually an indirect incentive to explore the world as well. Personally, I don't find scanning tedious... it is my "exploration" role play. It's my "archaelogist" Ryder figuratively sweeping away the bits of rock and stone with a brush rather than using a jackhammer all the time on a dig site. As a result, I will probably put in triple the time on this single playthrough than most other players... but I'm enjoying slowing down the pace of the game and just looking thoroughly through all the environments.

I agree, I didn't mind the scanning at all. I just think it would be more fun to find specific items/upgrades than generic research points, that's all. It's something I think DAI did a lot better.

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 21:26:24 GMT

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Post by melbella on Jun 24, 2017 21:26:24 GMT

Does anyone know/had the patience to find out how many research points are required to get everything to level X?

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 22:24:17 GMT

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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 24, 2017 22:24:17 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 20:53:20 GMT ProbeAway said:

I agree, I didn't mind the scanning at all. I just think it would be more fun to find specific items/upgrades than generic research points, that's all. It's something I think DAI did a lot better.

Those of us who were abandoned by the RNGesus when playing DAI and suffering the horror of never getting the right schematics would disagree with you. Seriously, the closest thing to fixing this they managed to do was stick a giant honkin' golden nug in my forge that let me bank the damn things.

Then again I don't use Heleus or Remnant gear all that much.

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Research point problem Jun 24, 2017 22:47:49 GMT via mobile

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Post by ProbeAway on Jun 24, 2017 22:47:49 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 22:24:17 GMT jaegerbane said:

Jun 24, 2017 20:53:20 GMT ProbeAway said:

I agree, I didn't mind the scanning at all. I just think it would be more fun to find specific items/upgrades than generic research points, that's all. It's something I think DAI did a lot better.

Those of us who were abandoned by the RNGesus when playing DAI and suffering the horror of never getting the right schematics would disagree with you. Seriously, the closest thing to fixing this they managed to do was stick a giant honkin' golden nug in my forge that let me bank the damn things.

Then again I don't use Heleus or Remnant gear all that much.

Lol true, but there's no rule that says they have to make everything random. The rarer stuff could be in set locations with the more common loot randomised. Plenty of ways to do it without an arbitrary points system that gives no specific reward.

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