Railrafale
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Post by Railrafale on Jun 30, 2017 16:35:59 GMT
Cerberus has a lot of changes during the 3 games. But what exaclty are they on Mass effect 3 ?
On ME1 we can see some researchers when you explore their bases and human soldiers we must defeat. Then on ME2 they have mechs. And finally on ME3 during Priority Mars we discover a husk behind the helmet of a dead trooper. So all Cerberus enemies are husks or not?
What about the Engineers? They talk like normal males. And Nemesis and Phantoms are they normal females or husks? Im excluding some bosses like Kai-leng (or even Jack if you dont save her on the academy) just the soldiers.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 30, 2017 16:47:09 GMT
According to ME1, Cerberus is an Alliance black ops organization that recently went rogue. They are known for using humans for experiments, including thresher maw attacks, injecting people with thresher maw venom, creating husks with dragon's teeth they found, experimenting with thorian creepers and experimenting with rachni. They also kill Admiral Kahoku.
In ME2, they're a "pro-human" group and (based on other media) were actually founded much earlier than 2183 (time of ME1). Miranda always implies that those actions Shepard witnessed were roguish behavior, but the evidence doesn't support her. She turns a blind eye to Jack's situation, as well as to Cerberus invading the Migrant Fleet, and then there's Project Overlord. We learn later (in ME3), the TIM made sure Shepard only saw the parts the weren't so terrible but Cerberus lacks ethics.
In ME3, we see Cerberus until an indoctrinated TIM. The husks he had started to create in ME1 were now more refined to create foot soldiers. That's how Cerberus had so many of them. If you indoctrinate through partial huskification, then you've got loyal soldiers. We also learn that Henry Lawson figured out how to use the Reaper signal to the husks to control these people. Not all members of Cerberus are partial husks but they are all indoctrinated. The ones not indoctrinated are those we end up having to rescue and recruit. However, even Kai Leng was indoctrinated. The Prothean VI Vendetta says it detects indoctrinated presence just before Kai Leng walks up. He's clearly not a husk. I believe phantoms were created along similar lines as Kai Leng so are probably also not husks.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 30, 2017 17:09:47 GMT
However, even Kai Leng was indoctrinated. The Prothean VI Vendetta says it detects indoctrinated presence just before Kai Leng walks up. He's clearly not a husk. I believe phantoms were created along similar lines as Kai Leng so are probably also not husks. Not sure if we can be absolutely certain of that. After all, there is also a gunship present, which presumably would have a normal soldier (read: indoctrinated) pilot. The space ninja seems to have a more personal grudge against Shepard, I think. But we don't know. @ General topic: I always thought Cerberus was ridiculous even in ME1 but particularly in ME2/3. 3 really kills it though. The problem isn't so much the amount of men, I get the indoctrination/huskification angle. It's more the amount of hardware and logistics they can muster. look at the start of the Omega DLC. They have an entire fleet, JUST to secure the station (it was a surprise attack, so that is apparently the amount of ships that are usually there). They can deploy troops basically anywhere in the galaxy on a moment's notice AND have huge research projects going on in multiple locations all over the galaxy at the same time. All of this less than 6 months after - if you read Retribution - TIM himself states that his organization got almost destroyed by Sanders, Anderson and the turians and that they have to seriously rebuild, almost from scratch. However anyone slices this, Cerberus as it operates in the games is ludicrous.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 30, 2017 18:34:23 GMT
I agree. I was just trying to stick to what is presented to answer the question as best I could. However, I imagine Kai Leng was rebuilt with current Cerberus tech. That stuff all had to be Reaper tech. Kai Leng might not be indoctrinated on the level of the Cerberus troopers but probably was in the same way as TIM. Low level, still highly functional and independent, but in the service of the Reapers. I just can't imagine anyone not indoctrinated would take on Shepard, attack the Citadel, etc.
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Post by Sondergaard on Jul 1, 2017 13:21:03 GMT
Yeah, Cerberus are a mess, especially in ME3. I could wave away their presence in ME2 as building one ship didn't seem out of reach for a small but extremely wealthy organisation. But their armies and fleets in ME3? WTF? It's a pet project gone mad on the part of the writers. Thing is, just a few lines would have explained it (or at least hand saved it through). Fleets- Key personnel were indoctrinated over the last few years and were ready to defect when ordered. Armies- as above or hired mercenaries. Or just rewrite various dialogues to turn Cerberus back into a powerful terrorist organisation and not a galaxy spanning empire. Rewrite Citadel coup as a surgical strike rather than a power grab. Game wouldn't change at all, just a few lines of dialogue (though I still have no idea what it was all about). Same for Benning. Rogue Cerberus faction that was never explained? Bad writing or cut content? Eden Prime and Horizon get the same treatment, rewritten dialogue. Eden Prime becomes a raid rather than a planetary invasion and Horizon would make sense if all the refugees were indoctrinated in their camps. I guess what I'm saying is Cerberus was appallingly written but the game wouldn't have to be completely redone to have them make some sort of sense. Just redo some dialogue and they're back to being a wealthy, powerful and dangerous enemy rather than the all powerful empire we're currently told about.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 1, 2017 16:07:39 GMT
I always headcanon that Benning were Cerberus troopers that TIM lost control of and fell under the sway of the Reapers. But, yes, it's weird that they never followed up on it.
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Post by fraggle on Jul 2, 2017 8:18:33 GMT
I always thought TIM or whoever denied involvement on Benning is lying. I mean, Hackett says at the beginning of the mission that initial reports suggested that Cerberus is recruiting people, but that changed into Cerberus taking people against their will. We all know why Cerberus needs civilians, so I'm thinking it was all a lie that Cerberus condemns the action on Benning officially.
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Post by Sondergaard on Jul 2, 2017 11:28:34 GMT
I always thought TIM or whoever denied involvement on Benning is lying. I mean, Hackett says at the beginning of the mission that initial reports suggested that Cerberus is recruiting people, but that changed into Cerberus taking people against their will. We all know why Cerberus needs civilians, so I'm thinking it was all a lie that Cerberus condemns the action on Benning officially. But Hackett goes on to say he believes Cerberus. Why plant that in a player's head if you're not going to follow it up? Players expect a resolution when stuff like this is brought up. Just as niggle though.
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Post by fraggle on Jul 2, 2017 11:55:09 GMT
I always thought TIM or whoever denied involvement on Benning is lying. I mean, Hackett says at the beginning of the mission that initial reports suggested that Cerberus is recruiting people, but that changed into Cerberus taking people against their will. We all know why Cerberus needs civilians, so I'm thinking it was all a lie that Cerberus condemns the action on Benning officially. But Hackett goes on to say he believes Cerberus. Why plant that in a player's head if you're not going to follow it up? Players expect a resolution when stuff like this is brought up. Just as niggle though. True, he says that. I always thought it made sense too because while it never was their M.O. to do things like that to innocent civilians, we end up learning about what they are doing this whole time to exactly those innocent civilians. They changed their M.O. without anyone knowing at first, and Hackett still believed that TIM did care about humanity as a whole at this point, but what he didn't know is that TIM lost it already at this point and became obsessed with controlling the Reapers, and he would achieve it, no matter how ruthless he had to become. Hackett says that gunning down innocent civilians is also not what Cerberus was about, but didn't they rig their troops with explosives so they couldn't talk about anything when being caught and questioned? I think that they want to protect their secrets at all costs, and they wouldn't even leave an innocent witness behind, so they kill them as a last resort. Or perhaps some civilians only got caught in the cross-fire with these soldiers that were on Benning earlier (we find the dogtags of Osoba's son there for example, so there's been some fighting prior to Shepard arriving). Not saying it's a perfect explanation and I can see why people think of it as unresolved, but I can live with this
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 11, 2017 20:05:06 GMT
I always thought TIM or whoever denied involvement on Benning is lying. I mean, Hackett says at the beginning of the mission that initial reports suggested that Cerberus is recruiting people, but that changed into Cerberus taking people against their will. We all know why Cerberus needs civilians, so I'm thinking it was all a lie that Cerberus condemns the action on Benning officially. But Hackett goes on to say he believes Cerberus. Why plant that in a player's head if you're not going to follow it up? Players expect a resolution when stuff like this is brought up. Just as niggle though. I thought that remark by Hackett was really weird, too. Especially in one playthrough, when I recruited Javik just before heading to Benning. On Eden Prime, Shepard and company walk into a room full of blood and corpses with a big screen and a few beer bottles lying around. Their comments: Shepard: "Shot in the back while watching the game." Squad mate: "This was someone's home." (or something to that effect) Yea, not shooting civilians my ass. And as you say, there was never any follow-up to that notion that it might be a rogue cell on Benning. I wonder if there was some cut content in relation to that one... Anyway, here is to Bilal. He never hesitated. Without him, none of us would be alive.
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Post by brfritos on Jul 12, 2017 22:46:46 GMT
In ME3, we see Cerberus until an indoctrinated TIM. The husks he had started to create in ME1 were now more refined to create foot soldiers. That's how Cerberus had so many of them. But in Cerberus Headquarters we learn the soldiers aren't actually husks, just people that were implanted with modified reaper tech to obey them. One of the researches, Jana, even tells TIM she is worry about it, since troops are already starting to listen reaper voices. They are in the middle ground between being converted, but they are not exactly "husks". The engineers and squad leaders I think are stil humans, like Gen. Oleg, who believe Cerberus and the soldiers are expendable shock troopers. That's the impression I have anyway. This actually makes more sense when thinking of missions like Benning, where we can rationalize they losted control of those troops. In the end Cerberus don't make a leap of sense in ME3, they are just "the bad" guys to fight against, just like the Kett in ME:A. LOL
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