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warrior
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Post by warrior on Jul 8, 2017 5:58:48 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 5:25:14 GMT Cyan_Griffonclaw said:

Jul 8, 2017 5:16:07 GMT warrior said:

I enjoyed Inquisition and will replay eventually, but it still had a lot of bloat and that I'm not really interested in playing, let alone replaying. Maybe a bit more than MEA, actually. Just so much pointless stuff to do for no reason other than XP or "management" when I am looking for the actual quests, like, Where's the beef?

I also find the two main storylines comparable in quality -- I don't quite understand how this Corypheus story is any less cliched, predictable, or oversimplistic for a fantasy world than the Kett story is for sci-fi one?

I think the companions are better in DAI (like Dorian!), and (to my memory) have more content and cutscenes overall. I mean, looking back, I guess I feel like DAI did have more fun stuff to do beyond collecting and delivering, and maybe the main quest had a bit more layering, but not especially so? (Did it? All I can remember is closing rift after rift!) So the GOTY A-/C- gap is a little confusing to me.

I don't think BW executes open world well and should just stop, but they won't ever stop now, now we get a BIG OPEN WORLD YOU CAN PLAY WITH YOUR FRIENDS, oh well. I'm replaying ME3 right now and man, it's such a dream compared to DAI or MEA. Of course, it will be over sooner...

I agree with you about the open world not being executed well in either game. I do expect BioWare to correct that in some respect. I would rather work in smaller, crowded hub areas for combat because it retains a familiar, but distinctive feel to it. Kind of like an instance in WoW. I love to replay the trilogy because of that aspect. It's something people hate a lot though. I always hear noise about corridor-style combat. I think BioWare is going to bridge that gap, but some of the design choices are so limited. It feels like I have less and less to work with each successive title. I know BioWare is now longer a PC Master Race Only studio. They're on consoles and that's a freakin' anchor if I ever saw one. Forget about how tough Frostbite is to program. It's taking all the potential that BioWare can put on canvas and then slowly strip it down to make it work on those consoles. No wonder they gave up on XBox 360 and PS3 versions. At the time it sounded such a like a dick move, but it makes sense. EA, Enthusiasm Annihilated.

While I'm fine with corridor shooting and hubs, I actually love open world (or semi-open world) games and combat. I just want those big maps to have more significant NPC interactions and general surprises in them, the virtual sensation of exploring a space instead of just running around for "miles" looking for loot and quest markers, killing the occasional too-familiar enemy.
I won't forget the first time I played Oblivion way back in 2006 as a ~~little girl~~ 22 year old and feeling like I was really inside a game for the first time ever, and an addictive desire to explore it. It's just so different than what BW is doing here. Maybe open world just needs realism, I dunno.
There is a game that manages a different style than Bethesda and yet still "populates" its open world very well -- but I won't mention it on this thread. I'm sure suikoden will do that eventually anyway.

Last Edit: Jul 8, 2017 8:41:26 GMT by warrior

Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 6:08:52 GMT kino and warrior like this

Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 8, 2017 6:08:52 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 5:58:48 GMT warrior said:

Jul 8, 2017 5:25:14 GMT Cyan_Griffonclaw said:

I agree with you about the open world not being executed well in either game. I do expect BioWare to correct that in some respect. I would rather work in smaller, crowded hub areas for combat because it retains a familiar, but distinctive feel to it. Kind of like an instance in WoW. I love to replay the trilogy because of that aspect. It's something people hate a lot though. I always hear noise about corridor-style combat. I think BioWare is going to bridge that gap, but some of the design choices are so limited. It feels like I have less and less to work with each successive title. I know BioWare is now longer a PC Master Race Only studio. They're on consoles and that's a freakin' anchor if I ever saw one. Forget about how tough Frostbite is to program. It's taking all the potential that BioWare can put on canvas and then slowly strip it down to make it work on those consoles. No wonder they gave up on XBox 360 and PS3 versions. At the time it sounded such a like a dick move, but it makes sense. EA, Enthusiasm Annihilated.

#1: While I'm fine with corridor shooting and hubs, I actually love open world (or semi-open world) games and combat. I just want those big maps to have more significant NPC interactions and general surprises in them, the virtual sensation of exploring a space instead of just running around for "miles" looking for loot and quest markers, killing the occasional too-familiar enemy.
#2: I won't forget the first time I played Oblivion way back in 2006 as a ~~little girl~~ 22 year old and feeling like I was really inside a game for the first time ever, and an addictive desire to explore it. It's just so different than what BW is doing here. Maybe open world just needs realism, I dunno.
There is a game that manages a different style than Bethesda and yet still "populates" its open world very well -- but I won't mention it on this thread. I'm sure suidoken will do that eventually anyway.

#!: yes, thank you. I concur. I call it game flow and the flow seems dragged out unnecessarily. I do like to explore areas just to take the sights in, but if you're going to give mounts then keep your team mounted so the banter will continue. You miss out on it and it gets exceptionally quiet.
#2: For me, it was Dragon Age Origins. OMG. It was a huge leap from Neverwinter Nights and that was brilliant. I was seeing progression on a scale that everyone finally took notice of BioWare.

And the last part... yep.

That's his thing. Laying salt like a boss.

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Post by kino on Jul 8, 2017 6:57:19 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 5:16:07 GMT warrior said:

I think the companions are better in DAI (like Dorian!), and (to my memory) have more content and cutscenes overall. I mean, looking back, I guess I feel like DAI did have more fun stuff to do beyond collecting and delivering, and maybe the main quest had a bit more layering, but not especially so? (Did it? All I can remember is closing rift after rift!) So the GOTY A-/C- gap is a little confusing to me.

I'll grant you that. After the companions in DAI, well, any game would have a tough stick to measure up against. They were brilliantly scripted. I don't dislike the companions in ME:A, far from it as a matter of fact, but I didn't invest in them the same as I did with the companions in DAI.

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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jul 8, 2017 7:34:27 GMT

It's not the matter of liking or disliking companions - they are just BADLY WRITTEN, same as main story - which is boring and predictable at many points. Most of you are blaming development process, animations, unexperienced staff and not green enough trees - MEA problem is WRITING QUALITY - immature dialogues, weak plots - no patch can change that !

No wonder that Anthem suddenly got Drew Karphyshyn, one of the very few writers in BW who always keep high quality writing standards.

Last Edit: Jul 8, 2017 7:41:20 GMT by Conquer Your Dreams

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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 7:57:23 GMT

Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jul 8, 2017 7:57:23 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 7:34:27 GMT Conquer Your Dreams said:

It's not the matter of liking or disliking companions - they are just BADLY WRITTEN, same as main story - which is boring and predictable at many points. Most of you are blaming development process, animations, unexperienced staff and not green enough trees - MEA problem is WRITING QUALITY - immature dialogues, weak plots - no patch can change that !

No wonder that Anthem suddenly got Drew Karphyshyn, one of the very few writers in BW who always keep high quality writing standards.

I agree to some extent, but I wonder how much time was given to get story development going in another direction with 18 months to spare. That's the crux. No room for error and there was plenty of error to begin with Frostbite. It was a tough stretch. Drew is a great writer with a committee. His stuff is excellent. Mac pulled out a win that should've been a loss. It wasn't a homerun, but it did at least get me on base. With the patches, the safe bunt single has moved the runner to second. A single via DLC is all that's needed to bring home the winning run. Yeah, there were issues with certain characters, but 18 months... and some of the work was in EA Austria? WTF.

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Post by mugwump v1 on Jul 8, 2017 8:10:36 GMT

I think the point is that 5 years was time enough for Bioware to deliver something a good deal more satisfying. That they didn't is a legitimate cause for complaint, despite the attempts of some here to spin the situation as something altogether more positive.

Last Edit: Jul 8, 2017 20:26:57 GMT by mugwump v1

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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 8:37:26 GMT

Post by warrior on Jul 8, 2017 8:37:26 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 7:34:27 GMT Conquer Your Dreams said:

It's not the matter of liking or disliking companions - they are just BADLY WRITTEN, same as main story - which is boring and predictable at many points. Most of you are blaming development process, animations, unexperienced staff and not green enough trees - MEA problem is WRITING QUALITY - immature dialogues, weak plots - no patch can change that !

No wonder that Anthem suddenly got Drew Karphyshyn, one of the very few writers in BW who always keep high quality writing standards.

writers are staff boo

warrior
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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 8:42:28 GMT

Post by warrior on Jul 8, 2017 8:42:28 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 7:34:27 GMT Conquer Your Dreams said:

It's not the matter of liking or disliking companions - they are just BADLY WRITTEN, same as main story - which is boring and predictable at many points. Most of you are blaming development process, animations, unexperienced staff and not green enough trees - MEA problem is WRITING QUALITY - immature dialogues, weak plots - no patch can change that !

No wonder that Anthem suddenly got Drew Karphyshyn, one of the very few writers in BW who always keep high quality writing standards.

but yes they are mostly boring

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Post by wright1978 on Jul 8, 2017 8:44:14 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 6:57:19 GMT kino said:

Jul 8, 2017 5:16:07 GMT warrior said:

I think the companions are better in DAI (like Dorian!), and (to my memory) have more content and cutscenes overall. I mean, looking back, I guess I feel like DAI did have more fun stuff to do beyond collecting and delivering, and maybe the main quest had a bit more layering, but not especially so? (Did it? All I can remember is closing rift after rift!) So the GOTY A-/C- gap is a little confusing to me.

I'll grant you that. After the companions in DAI, well, any game would have a tough stick to measure up against. They were brilliantly scripted. I don't dislike the companions in ME:A, far from it as a matter of fact, but I didn't invest in them the same as I did with the companions in DAI.

Disagree thought DAI companions were largely terrible

Last Edit: Jul 8, 2017 8:44:37 GMT by wright1978

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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 8:48:58 GMT

Post by colfoley on Jul 8, 2017 8:48:58 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 6:57:19 GMT kino said:

Jul 8, 2017 5:16:07 GMT warrior said:

I think the companions are better in DAI (like Dorian!), and (to my memory) have more content and cutscenes overall. I mean, looking back, I guess I feel like DAI did have more fun stuff to do beyond collecting and delivering, and maybe the main quest had a bit more layering, but not especially so? (Did it? All I can remember is closing rift after rift!) So the GOTY A-/C- gap is a little confusing to me.

I'll grant you that. After the companions in DAI, well, any game would have a tough stick to measure up against. They were brilliantly scripted. I don't dislike the companions in ME:A, far from it as a matter of fact, but I didn't invest in them the same as I did with the companions in DAI.

Pretty much my thoughts. None were bad. But none were truly amazing either.

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Post by sil on Jul 8, 2017 8:55:08 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 8:10:36 GMT mugwump v1 said:

I think the point is that 5 years was time enough for Bioware to deliver something a good deal more satisfying. That they didn't is a legitimate cause for complaint, despite the attempts of some to spin the situation as something altogether more positive.

That's the problem with having a numpty in charge who thought that procedurally generated planets were what players wanted. If they hadn't wasted so much time on that, they would have crafted something altogether more satisfying, lengthy, polished and exciting.

Not that I don't really like Andromeda, I do. But its weak as an entry, but once the DLC is out, it'll reach potential. Much like ME3 I guess, though that has reached its potential through mods.

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Post by Croatsky on Jul 8, 2017 9:18:14 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 1:04:43 GMT kino said:

Jul 7, 2017 22:57:09 GMT Croatsky said:

Really, ME:A had three big issues in development:

1. Management that lacked unified vision and ability to make decisive decisions, causing portions of senior BW Edmonton staff to intervene.
2. Unrealistic ambitions with scrapped procedurally generated planets.
3. Very late decision on what technology and method to use for facial animations.

Yet despite it all and being rough on the edges, ME:A came out pretty great.

Don't forget, ME:A also lost it's lead writer in 2016. It may sound like a small thing but it's impactful. Chris Schlerf leaving was certainly that.

There's no doubt that this was a troubled development cycle for Mass Effect.

ME2 suffered similarly Drew left in middle of development, leaving Walters to take over.
So I don't think it was that much damaging.

Also Chris Schlerf did the same thing with Destiny 2. He was a lead writer of that game for 1 year and then just left in November 2016.
It looks like a habit for him.

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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 9:23:23 GMT

Post by Croatsky on Jul 8, 2017 9:23:23 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 4:19:15 GMT fiannawolf said:

I think they will use this panel to go over the books/comics moreso then anything else.

These are ME:A developers that will be on panel, not comic book writers nor BioWare producers. As well it states right there in description of that panel, they will talk about how they created world of ME:A. I assume presentation will last 20 minutes, while Q&A 25 minutes.

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Post by Croatsky on Jul 8, 2017 9:24:53 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 4:41:56 GMT Cyan_Griffonclaw said:

Jul 8, 2017 4:39:01 GMT mugwump v1 said:

And, as one of the many Mass Effect fans who found Andromeda to be entirely average, I am by no means glad that Bioware didn't make better use of that time.

This makes perfect sense to me. It was very subtle because it was out of context at the time. Now, it's perfectly appropriate. BioWare has changed personnel, but the soul and passion is there and in abundance. It just needs polishing. 1.09 is my only piece of evidence.

I'm pretty sure they picked that song because Mac Walters insisted ME:A is a human story.
Which it wasn't, but that's Mac for you.

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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 8, 2017 10:52:25 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 1:25:59 GMT colfoley said:

Jul 8, 2017 1:24:02 GMT OdanUrr said:

Ah, yes, if you're talking about that 18-month stretch, then I agree it's a very short time frame and Montreal did a gargantuan job to ship the game in anything resembling functional. However, at the end of the day, BioWare had 5 years to work on the game and wasted most of it through no one's fault but their own (call it internal squabbles, politics, whatever). Can we expect future Mass Effect or Dragon Age titles to be affected by similar issues?

i doubt it on.the Edmonton side anyway. I suppose anthem might suffer from this problem lol.

yeah I doubt it as ewll as they've only really just started work on DA4 and they'll likely have learnt lessonsfrom what happened with MEA .At leas I hope they have because having DA4 fail could endup being disastous for both series so we better hope they don't.

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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 8, 2017 11:55:46 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 8:48:58 GMT colfoley said:

Jul 8, 2017 6:57:19 GMT kino said:

I'll grant you that. After the companions in DAI, well, any game would have a tough stick to measure up against. They were brilliantly scripted. I don't dislike the companions in ME:A, far from it as a matter of fact, but I didn't invest in them the same as I did with the companions in DAI.

Pretty much my thoughts. None were bad. But none were truly amazing either.

yeah I agree I liked Jaal and the rest of the Angarrans as they were an interesting people to get to know so whoever created them did a good job but yeah out of the well known species none of them really stood out unlike they have in the past. Perhaps Drack did but that's about it because you get to learn a lot about the krogan and who they are through him and that despite being a warrior race they still care a lot about each other. I guess I quite like Kallo and Suvi though but no one really stands out with the exception of maybe the Angarra as I said earlier. Whereas in the trilogy everyone was interesting in their own ways. Each of the characters had their moments though I guess s oit wasn't a complete loss.

As for DAI I felt that all the companions were interesting in their own ways the only one I kind of disliked was Viv but her aside I felt the rest of them were good. I think that the companions in DAI for the most part are really strong is the main reason why DAI for me was as successful as it was.

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Post by ozzie on Jul 8, 2017 12:13:19 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 8:55:08 GMT sil said:

Jul 8, 2017 8:10:36 GMT mugwump v1 said:

I think the point is that 5 years was time enough for Bioware to deliver something a good deal more satisfying. That they didn't is a legitimate cause for complaint, despite the attempts of some to spin the situation as something altogether more positive.

That's the problem with having a numpty in charge who thought that procedurally generated planets were what players wanted. If they hadn't wasted so much time on that, they would have crafted something altogether more satisfying, lengthy, polished and exciting.

Not that I don't really like Andromeda, I do. But its weak as an entry, but once the DLC is out, it'll reach potential. Much like ME3 I guess, though that has reached its potential through mods.

That only really washes as an excuse for the shoddy production values, ME:A main problem is the writing and direction. And lets be fair here, that's a hind sight 20/20 thing, if they had managed to pull of the procedurally generated galaxy and got it to mesh with the as implemented open world format it could have been one of the games most acclaimed features. With the exception of Havari, the hand crafted worlds of ME:A aren't any better than what is capable with procedural generation, the game might even have had real exploration rather than just calling driving to a waypoint exploration.

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Post by sil on Jul 8, 2017 12:24:49 GMT

Procedurally generated worlds have never been an acclaimed part of Mass Effect, hell, open world was only applicable to Mass Effect 1. They should've just gone the ME1 route, but with more interesting, small planets to drive around. H-074c and Havarl are the best examples of it. Elaadan was great too.

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Post by Croatsky on Jul 8, 2017 12:26:02 GMT

Apparently there's a big thunderstorm at Montreal right now.

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Post by thelonelypoet on Jul 8, 2017 12:45:06 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 9:18:14 GMT Croatsky said:

Jul 8, 2017 1:04:43 GMT kino said:

Don't forget, ME:A also lost it's lead writer in 2016. It may sound like a small thing but it's impactful. Chris Schlerf leaving was certainly that.

There's no doubt that this was a troubled development cycle for Mass Effect.

ME2 suffered similarly Drew left in middle of development, leaving Walters to take over.
So I don't think it was that much damaging.

Also Chris Schlerf did the same thing with Destiny 2. He was a lead writer of that game for 1 year and then just left in November 2016.
It looks like a habit for him.

On the other hand, I just can't understand why writers leave. As a writer myself it is a mystery. Of course, my field is in creative writing, and I have zero idea how the work is done in game industry. I am too proud as a person to leave in a middle of a process, it would need a catastrophic circumstances for me to leave my work undone. But I read a lot people leaving in this sector when the work is still ongoing.

Sorry about the OT.

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Post by thelonelypoet on Jul 8, 2017 12:48:52 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 11:55:46 GMT sjsharp2010 said:

Jul 8, 2017 8:48:58 GMT colfoley said:

Pretty much my thoughts. None were bad. But none were truly amazing either.

yeah I agree I liked Jaal and the rest of the Angarrans as they were an interesting people to get to know so whoever created them did a good job but yeah out of the well known species none of them really stood out unlike they have in the past. Perhaps Drack did but that's about it because you get to learn a lot about the krogan and who they are through him and that despite being a warrior race they still care a lot about each other. I guess I quite like Kallo and Suvi though but no one really stands out with the exception of maybe the Angarra as I said earlier. Whereas in the trilogy everyone was interesting in their own ways. Each of the characters had their moments though I guess s oit wasn't a complete loss.

As for DAI I felt that all the companions were interesting in their own ways the only one I kind of disliked was Viv but her aside I felt the rest of them were good. I think that the companions in DAI for the most part are really strong is the main reason why DAI for me was as successful as it was.

I agree. For me the characters in DAI were actually very interesting, Iron Bull being my top. The game was repetitive and the environment didn't work, but the companion I had kept me invested.

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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 12:51:32 GMT

Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 8, 2017 12:51:32 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 12:45:06 GMT thelonelypoet said:

Jul 8, 2017 9:18:14 GMT Croatsky said:

ME2 suffered similarly Drew left in middle of development, leaving Walters to take over.
So I don't think it was that much damaging.

Also Chris Schlerf did the same thing with Destiny 2. He was a lead writer of that game for 1 year and then just left in November 2016.
It looks like a habit for him.

On the other hand, I just can't understand why writers leave. As a writer myself it is a mystery. Of course, my field is in creative writing, and I have zero idea how the work is done in game industry. I am too proud as a person to leave in a middle of a process, it would need a catastrophic circumstances for me to leave my work undone. But I read a lot people leaving in this sector when the work is still ongoing.

Sorry about the OT.

I think that's mostly due t ocerative differences than anything. It can and does happen at the end of the day.

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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 12:53:13 GMT Cyan_Griffonclaw likes this

Post by isaidlunch on Jul 8, 2017 12:53:13 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 12:26:02 GMT Croatsky said:

Apparently there's a big thunderstorm at Montreal right now.

Well that's not a good omen :lol:

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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 13:02:23 GMT isaidlunch and Cyan_Griffonclaw like this

Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 8, 2017 13:02:23 GMT

Jul 8, 2017 12:53:13 GMT isaidlunch said:

Jul 8, 2017 12:26:02 GMT Croatsky said:

Apparently there's a big thunderstorm at Montreal right now.

Well that's not a good omen :lol:

Or maybe it is someone upstairs reminding Bioware we want DLC or else.

Maybe a little divine intervention might help matters.

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Mass Effect Andromeda Q&A Panel at Montreal Comic Con, 8th July 2017, "Can not comment on future pro Jul 8, 2017 13:09:08 GMT kino and Cyan_Griffonclaw like this

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Jul 7, 2017 22:35:46 GMT kino said:

Jul 7, 2017 22:29:14 GMT sil said:

I'd like to see them add a number of small, unusual planets to explore like H-074c, that broken planet. That was my favourite, as it felt like I was exploring another world, rather than exploring a desert on earth.

That could work. Design a water world, give it small exploreable islands or something. H-074c itself was a fairly substantial map. Not much opportunity to get out of the Nomad, but it was still pretty big.

A portion we are exploring could be shallows.

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