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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 6, 2017 12:57:05 GMT
Well I can't view page 2 of this thread for some reason (my web filter seems to think there is adult content?) but I did want to follow up on some previous commentary.
The guy on reddit seems to think I am (was) some kind of ME3MP god whose Platinum prowess is unmatched by your average PUG. To which I say... what?
I don't consider myself particularly good at shooters. I have lousy reflexes (I'm in my 40s FFS), I never mastered some mechanics such as reload canceling, my aim is crappy so I get few headshots, and I only ever vaguely knew the wave compositions and spawn points.
But what I did is play Platinum a lot. A LOT. Hundreds and hundreds of hours, thousands of games (roughly 2,000 I would guess). Grinding it out with PUG after PUG after PUG. So many Giant / Reapers / Platinum games that I can't even count. So many games where I did nothing but hold down 'B' for 20 minutes (Geth Juggernaut). So many games that ended in failure on Wave 3 or Wave 5 or Wave 10 due to Geth stunlock bullshit or Devices bullshit or general me + PUG crappiness.
Relatively late in my ME3MP career I became XBL friends with some of the top players there -- you guys know who you are; I'm not going to put my foot in my mouth by forgetting to mention someone by name in a list. Did I get carried a lot? Hell yes I did. Did I start returning the favor to random PUGs when I could and was able to? Yes.
I still don't see how this makes my experiences so abnormal. I feel like I took a pretty typical path to manifest maxing: clueless newb --> play a shit-ton of Platinum to grind for credits --> slightly more clueful non-newb --> play a shit-ton more games --> eventually max manifest.
I am *convinced* we will see 'average PUGs' grinding Platinum for credits on MEA. I don't think it will be just the 'good' players (like me apparently?!) grinding Plat. It will be everyone who wants credits. Which is... almost everyone, right?
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Post by xujparisipc on Jul 6, 2017 13:09:37 GMT
Yey.. Americans woke up. Forum won't be boring. Great post JRandall0308. Felt a spirit of ME3 there  And yes people will play platinum just like any other level. On PC first, then consoles. |
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Post by unclemonster on Jul 6, 2017 13:12:57 GMT
Is it here yet! I am so ready!
PLAT! PLAT! PLAT!
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 6, 2017 13:21:37 GMT
Yey.. Americans woke up. Forum won't be boring. 'Murica... FUCK YEAH! 1 hour 39 minutes by my clock, until the patch starts. Probably another 30-60 minutes for it to deploy. Go watch a movie or something. |
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Post by xujparisipc on Jul 6, 2017 13:31:12 GMT
Can we delay it by 2 hours so when I'll be home we will start together like real friends?  |
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Post by derrame on Jul 6, 2017 13:55:49 GMT
i don't think that will be possible to far in platinum
maps are way wide open, no places to hide,
maybe only in relict cave in paradox base, and that is still very open
besides the only thing we can se to stop enemies is the tech barrier but it's tiny,
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 6, 2017 14:03:11 GMT
i don't think that will be possible to far in platinum maps are way wide open, no places to hide, maybe only in relict cave in paradox base, and that is still very open besides the only thing we can se to stop enemies is the tech barrier but it's tiny, 'Farming' is not synonymous with 'camping'. The former will be possible immediately, the latter will be possible once we git gud at Platinum (if not also immediately). |
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Post by learnedhand on Jul 6, 2017 14:15:10 GMT
I think a better question will be whether platinum will be dominated by hacked games (at least on pc).
I don't see the real need for the masses to farm platinum. I've been playing this game heavily for about a month and I'm about two-thirds the way to a maxed manifest. Platinum for most players I suspect will be for novelty rather than necessity, especially if it is truly difficult.
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Post by unclemonster on Jul 6, 2017 14:22:17 GMT
Yey.. Americans woke up. Forum won't be boring. 'Murica... FUCK YEAH! 1 hour 39 minutes by my clock, until the patch starts. Probably another 30-60 minutes for it to deploy. Go watch a movie or something. I'm actually at work for 5-6 more hours still...then the fun begins! |
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Post by someN7orother on Jul 6, 2017 14:38:50 GMT
Your own experience with Platinum is not representative of the player base's, sorry OP. You're making a broad claim that plat farming was reasonable and profitable for most people, when what you really mean is that you did it commonly. Those are very different things and it's why you're (rightly) being accused of humble bragging. The old infographics biower used to publish showed precisely what the guy is saying: that plat was played with any degree of success by an extremely small minority of players ( ~1% by the end of game support). I expect plat here to be more accessible than in ME3, because the game is generally easier, but rest assured that it will remain a minority thing. Sure, anyone is capable of becoming proficient at pretty much anything given sufficient time, and this evidently includes the plat credit grind (as opposed to 'let's see if I can do plat' one-off kind of games). However, the majority of people will simply not reach that level of time investment because there is no incentive for them to do so -- the game does not have that kind of staying power. I expect the forum to see its fair share of shit posts complaining about the prevalence of 'optimal' lobby configurations to complete plat with low risk in the least possible time, but again, that does not mean such a thing will be representative of the player base's habits at large. Just BSN being BSN. |
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Post by gethadept on Jul 6, 2017 14:52:51 GMT
What.... you guys didn`t play ME3MP PuG?
Every single PuG player could farm Giant Platinum with non-idiotic Geth Juggernaut, 1 infiltrator and 2 dudes who are not terrible.
It was extremely popular and more than manageable for majority of player population in ME3MP.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 6, 2017 15:11:53 GMT
What.... you guys didn`t play ME3MP PuG? Every single PuG player could farm Giant Platinum with non-idiotic Geth Juggernaut, 1 infiltrator and 2 dudes who are not terrible. It was extremely popular and more than manageable for majority of player population in ME3MP. Yeah that last part is the part that is incorrect. It wasn't popular, nor did the majority of people play it. A minority of people played it a lot, but it would be a mistake to assume the average player found it manageable. I couldn't handle pugging Plat, and I was an above average player. |
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Post by gethadept on Jul 6, 2017 15:16:32 GMT
What.... you guys didn`t play ME3MP PuG? Every single PuG player could farm Giant Platinum with non-idiotic Geth Juggernaut, 1 infiltrator and 2 dudes who are not terrible. It was extremely popular and more than manageable for majority of player population in ME3MP. Yeah that last part is the part that is incorrect. It wasn't popular, nor did the majority of people play it. A minority of people played it a lot, but it would be a mistake to assume the average player found it manageable. I couldn't handle pugging Plat, and I was an above average player. Not Pugging plat. Just farming. Platinum giant was popular enough to make it harder to find any other Platinum lobby at one point. If you couldn`t handle Platinum Giant farming... it means you weren`t a good enough Infiltrator or Juggernaut yourself. I extracted always in that framing if I played either one. |
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 6, 2017 15:21:04 GMT
Yeah that last part is the part that is incorrect. It wasn't popular, nor did the majority of people play it. A minority of people played it a lot, but it would be a mistake to assume the average player found it manageable. I couldn't handle pugging Plat, and I was an above average player. Not Pugging plat. Just farming. Platinum giant was popular enough to make it harder to find any other Platinum lobby at one point. If you couldn`t handle Platinum Giant farming... it means you weren`t a good enough Infiltrator or Juggernaut yourself. I extracted always in that framing if I played either one. Even if referring to farming, I still think you overestimate the number of people doing it and/or being successful at it. The telemtric data just doesn't support your assertion. Platinum was played by a very small percentage (less than one percent) and succeeded by even fewer than that. Whether farming or not, most people could not handle that difficulty. |
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Post by gethadept on Jul 6, 2017 15:24:08 GMT
Not Pugging plat. Just farming. Platinum giant was popular enough to make it harder to find any other Platinum lobby at one point. If you couldn`t handle Platinum Giant farming... it means you weren`t a good enough Infiltrator or Juggernaut yourself. I extracted always in that framing if I played either one. Even if referring to farming, I still think you overestimate the number of people doing it and/or being successful at it. The telemtric data just doesn't support your assertion. Platinum was played by a very small percentage (less than one percent) and succeeded by even fewer than that. Whether farming or not, most people could not handle that difficulty. If you are talking about average joes who didn`t give crap about manifest and being hardcore not playing platinum, of course you are right. We are talking about people who care about playing this game in depth with goal of getting more stuffs as much as possible when we talk about gold/platinum games right? |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jul 6, 2017 15:28:13 GMT
(1) You're making a broad claim that plat farming was reasonable and profitable for most people, when what you really mean is that you did it commonly. Those are very different things (2) and it's why you're (rightly) being accused of humble bragging. (3) The old infographics biower used to publish showed precisely what the guy is saying: that plat was played with any degree of success by an extremely small minority of players ( ~1% by the end of game support). (4) Sure, anyone is capable of becoming proficient at pretty much anything given sufficient time, and this evidently includes the plat credit grind (as opposed to 'let's see if I can do plat' one-off kind of games). However, the majority of people will simply not reach that level of time investment because there is no incentive for them to do so -- (5) the game does not have that kind of staying power. (6) I expect the forum to see its fair share of shit posts complaining about the prevalence of 'optimal' lobby configurations to complete plat with low risk in the least possible time, but again, that does not mean such a thing will be representative of the player base's habits at large. Just BSN being BSN. (1) Fine, they're different claims, but this isn't a fucking university logic class. Also absent any actual data what do we have to go on than our own experiences? Please raise your hand if you played ME3MP during its heyday and did NOT find a shitload of PUGs farming Platinum. (2) It's only a brag if you're... bragging, right? All I ever did is state that based on my experience Plat farming was common. But if you want me to start bragging, sure. I'm a fucking god at ME3MP. (3) 1% of millions of people playing the game means that many tens of thousands of people were successfully extracting on Platinum, regularly. That's more than enough people to fill up any given Platinum player's frequently-played-with list with all the other Plat farmers. (4) No shit? (5) Wrong, ME3MP had enormous staying power, far beyond what anyone expected. (6) Said shitposts are YET MORE EVIDENCE that Plat farming IS COMMONPLACE. You cannot have it both ways. Either only the tiny minority of godlike Plat players, including me, the best ME3MP Plat player ever, will be farming Plat... or so many people will be farming Plat that the forums are innundated with shitposts. |
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 6, 2017 15:29:16 GMT
Even if referring to farming, I still think you overestimate the number of people doing it and/or being successful at it. The telemtric data just doesn't support your assertion. Platinum was played by a very small percentage (less than one percent) and succeeded by even fewer than that. Whether farming or not, most people could not handle that difficulty. If you are talking about average joes who didn`t give crap about manifest and being hardcore not playing platinum, of course you are right. We are talking about people who care about playing this game in depth with goal of getting more stuffs as much as possible when we talk about gold/platinum games right? I don't know that we can declare that anyone who didn't PuG or farm Platinum didn't care about manifest or playing the game in depth. I cared about those things but was not capable of pugging Plat. Even if you eliminate the "lurkers" I doubt much more than 25% of BSN previous even played Plat regularly. In later years when the MP section shrank, the ratio may have changed, but when Operation Lodestone happened, it became pretty clear that the vast majority of BSN at that time were not Platinum players. |
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Post by xujparisipc on Jul 6, 2017 15:49:43 GMT
Where could I find that data with 1%?
Because my guess would be that it's based on all the players that ever played the game.
That means including those who quitted before platinum showed up. Bigger half?
Including SP players who played for galaxy map?
Would be nice two now what would be average % of one month active players who can beat platinum easily. That would be accurate.
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Post by someN7orother on Jul 6, 2017 16:01:39 GMT
(1) Fine, they're different claims, but this isn't a fucking university logic class. Also absent any actual data what do we have to go on than our own experiences? Please raise your hand if you played ME3MP during its heyday and did NOT find a shitload of PUGs farming Platinum. (2) It's only a brag if you're... bragging, right? All I ever did is state that based on my experience Plat farming was common. But if you want me to start bragging, sure. I'm a fucking god at ME3MP. (3) 1% of millions of people playing the game means that many tens of thousands of people were successfully extracting on Platinum, regularly. That's more than enough people to fill up any given Platinum player's frequently-played-with list with all the other Plat farmers. (4) No shit? (5) Wrong, ME3MP had enormous staying power, far beyond what anyone expected. (6) Said shitposts are YET MORE EVIDENCE that Plat farming IS COMMONPLACE. You cannot have it both ways. Either only the tiny minority of godlike Plat players, including me, the best ME3MP Plat player ever, will be farming Plat... or so many people will be farming Plat that the forums are innundated with shitposts. (1) A shitload compared to what? Most plat lobbies I remember were actually set to UUP, and contrary to your experience, tended to end up in failure. Perhaps not during the heyday... during which plat lobbies comprised less than 1% of all games as per metrics. (2) I didn't say you were bragging. I said the accusation had merit. Possibly it's rather just Dunning-Kruger in effect, with you (a ME3MP one percenter) underestimating your own ability compared to the average player. And consider that, by definition, there's always a fuckton of people behind the curve. (3) Absolute/relative. You said that it was reasonable and profitable for most people to grind plat for credits. And that's an absolute statement unless you qualify it. Semantics, only not really because the whole fucking point is that, by and large, grinding plat was not something that was doable by a majority of players at any given point in the game's life. (4) Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Remember: that was a restatement of a point you made in Reddit. One that I thought was immaterial to the point being argued. At least we agree on this. (5) I meant MEAMP. But even 3 didn't have enough staying power for a majority of the playerbase to graduate to Platinum-level. (6) No, they are only evidence that people will make posts about the most inane things. There were a few topics about FBZOG, but that was only an issue if you searched exclusively for Gold lobbies, which is a difficulty played by a minority of people. You are establishing a direct relationship between forum posts and the habits and issues of the player base at large. I'm pretty sure it was you who posted not too long ago some rough estimates that showed that we are in fact a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of the total pop. |
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Post by gethadept on Jul 6, 2017 16:09:14 GMT
If you are talking about average joes who didn`t give crap about manifest and being hardcore not playing platinum, of course you are right. We are talking about people who care about playing this game in depth with goal of getting more stuffs as much as possible when we talk about gold/platinum games right? I don't know that we can declare that anyone who didn't PuG or farm Platinum didn't care about manifest or playing the game in depth. I cared about those things but was not capable of pugging Plat. Even if you eliminate the "lurkers" I doubt much more than 25% of BSN previous even played Plat regularly. In later years when the MP section shrank, the ratio may have changed, but when Operation Lodestone happened, it became pretty clear that the vast majority of BSN at that time were not Platinum players. Yes. I get your point. But My point is that Platinum Giant Farming was easy enough if you have 1 Good Geth Juggernaut and 1 Infiltrator, and people who were interested in it learned VERY QUICKLY AND EFFECTIVELY FARM it. Do you have any idea how easy that farming is with one good Geth juggernaut + Geth infiltrator mine debuff + Drell infiltrator recon mine? So easy, simply laughable. It`s true most people probably didn`t give a crap about Platinum one way or other. Most of them probably didn`t even play it. I didn`t play it regularly myself. And obviously it was THE LEAST POPULAR DIFFICULTY played by people. But people who were interested in farming, it was easy and it was done many many times. Don`t bring in people who couldn`t care about most efficient way to farm credits or couldn`t figure out farming set up. People figured it out in ME3MP and did it. People will figure it out in MEAMP and do it too. Even if they end up resolving into playing only infiltrator and flak cannon classes. Flak cannon classes maked Zero / Farming set up practically a DEATHTRAP for any enemy & factions. |
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 6, 2017 16:15:05 GMT
Where could I find that data with 1%? The website BioWare used to use has been made private, so it isn't possible to link to the original, anymore. After I post, I'll look around for an archived version. It was a telemetric breakdown of the MP games played. There was a similar one for SP stats, like how many people rescued Wrex. Because my guess would be that it's based on all the players that ever played the game. Sort of. If I remember right, I think it was the total number of MP games played, but "pretty much same difference," as they say. That means including those who quitted before platinum showed up. Bigger half? To be honest, I'm not sure. If it was the total games played, than you would be correct about a big percentage of the total being skewed for the time before Platinum existed. Even being generous accounting for it, though, I doubt it would lift the final percentage up much above 3 or 4 percent. Including SP players who played for galaxy map? Yes, but as a percentage of the total games, they would be quite small, since it was only necessary to do that for a few months (a patch rendered it unnecessary.) Would be nice two now what would be average % of one month active players who can beat platinum easily. That would be accurate. That would be interesting to know. From the numbers alone I doubt it would be possible to discern which ones can do it "easily," but ongoing data would have been very illuminating. Companies can be very careful about publicizing information like that. BioWare only ever published the one set for ME 3 MP that I remember. |
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Post by Urizen on Jul 6, 2017 16:16:44 GMT
Do you have any idea how easy that farming is with one good Geth juggernaut + Geth infiltrator mine debuff + Drell infiltrator recon mine? So easy, simply laughable. Please define what constitutes a well played Juggernaut? |
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Post by gethadept on Jul 6, 2017 16:17:27 GMT
Do you have any idea how easy that farming is with one good Geth juggernaut + Geth infiltrator mine debuff + Drell infiltrator recon mine? So easy, simply laughable. Please define what constitutes a well played Juggernaut? One that never dies no matter what. Which is easy as long as you mix shield dragin + light melee to never get staggered. |
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Post by Urizen on Jul 6, 2017 16:21:51 GMT
One that never dies no matter what. Which is easy as long as you mix shield dragin + light melee to never get staggered. Agree with the first half. But the second half sounds an awful lot like your typical melee jug, that whilst staying alive ( well most of the time anyway ), doesn´t kill a lot of things. Nah I´d rather he used a spitfire headshotting all da thingz. |
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jul 6, 2017 16:22:46 GMT
I don't know that we can declare that anyone who didn't PuG or farm Platinum didn't care about manifest or playing the game in depth. I cared about those things but was not capable of pugging Plat. Even if you eliminate the "lurkers" I doubt much more than 25% of BSN previous even played Plat regularly. In later years when the MP section shrank, the ratio may have changed, but when Operation Lodestone happened, it became pretty clear that the vast majority of BSN at that time were not Platinum players. Yes. I get your point. But My point is that Platinum Giant Farming was easy enough if you have 1 Good Geth Juggernaut and 1 Infiltrator, and people who were interested in it learned VERY QUICKLY AND EFFECTIVELY FARM it. Do you have any idea how easy that farming is with one good Geth juggernaut + Geth infiltrator mine debuff + Drell infiltrator recon mine? So easy, simply laughable. I doubt it's possible that I will convince you that your experience playing Platinum doesn't reflect how it works for most people. I learned how to speedrun, which is a heck of a lot faster than farming Platinum. But it isn't possible to do that by PuGing. Attempting to farm Plat with PuGs was a waste of my time because I made more credits per time spent by simply PuGing Gold. Platinum was never easy under any circumstances for me other than being carried, which never happened while PuGing. Unless I'm overestimating my abilities, I'm confident most people would struggle in Platinum even more than I do. Which has nothing to do with whether they want to learn, or care about playing the game in depth. |
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