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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 17, 2016 3:59:35 GMT
Given my current ME1 PT I'm wondering if there's any known connection between ExoGeni and Cerberus. ExoGeni has no redeeming qualities to it and experiments on the same sorts of things as Cerberus. In fact, you stop both ExoGeni and Cerberus scientists from continued experiments on Thorian creepers. My current Shepard (Jace) is suspicious that they're actually the same organization, or that ExoGeni is a public front for Cerberus. Anyone else have thoughts, opinions, or a codex suggesting a link?
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Post by straykat on Sept 17, 2016 4:05:09 GMT
It's never explicitly said, but I don't think it was thought through that much at first. Drew K and Hudson just described Cerberus at first as pro-human Mooks, that they needed to fill space with. It wasn't until the Ascension novel that they thought it out some more. That said, Binary Helix' logo was very close to Cerberus (but both Corporations had deals and sent data to Cerberus in ME1):
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 4:51:49 GMT
If one asks EDI questions about Cerberus Resources and then "billions" in ME2 after Joker unshackles her, she does indicate that Cerberus uses several legitimate businesses as "fronts" and several wealthy contributors within the Alliance military complex. I don't believe it is ever explicitly stated, but I think it likely that there is some sort of connection and almost every corporation mentioned in the game. In the Codex under Cerberus: the Illusive Man, Cerberus is described as an "untraceable syndicate of private intelligence agencies, biotics laboratories, engineering and scientific research teams, and lucrative front companies."
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 17, 2016 7:02:46 GMT
Wow, thanks for the answer. Like I said, my current Shepard has been deciding that Cerberus might be linked to ExoGeni and Binary Helix (which is run by Saren). He might also conclude that Cerberus works for the Reapers - which supports TIM indoctrination theory. Will definitely RP that when Jace moves into ME2.
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Post by Darth Dennis on Sept 17, 2016 8:36:56 GMT
ExoGeni has no redeeming qualities? That's a bit harsh. Exogeni has done a lot of unethical experiments that Shepard has found, but there are other, less evil Exogeni projects. For example, terraforming Trebin by introducing more water into the atmosphere.
Anyway, on topic, I think Cerberus must have a pretty strong connection, as they must have got the Thorian Creepers from somewhere. If you keep ME1's lore alone, Cerberus are an Alliance cell, and Exogeni work quite close with the Alliance according to Udina.
And with ME2's Cerberus ret-con, it's said that the Illusive Man has shares in all sorts of companies, and as Exogeni is a big company, one would assume they work together.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 13:11:13 GMT
Wow, thanks for the answer. Like I said, my current Shepard has been deciding that Cerberus might be linked to ExoGeni and Binary Helix (which is run by Saren). He might also conclude that Cerberus works for the Reapers - which supports TIM indoctrination theory. Will definitely RP that when Jace moves into ME2. Yeah, it's fun to do it that way... Since EDI also mentions that some of the Alliance brass are backing Cerberus, it puts Shepard in the position for a time of not being certain whether or not he can trust Anderson and Hackett. If you watch the Shadowbroker vids, you'll see one of Anderson meeting with a person in a Cerberus uniform. IMO, it's a great plot line that was just never really developed fully in the game... which makes it easier to headcannon all sorts of things about it. Newsflash for Shepard... he/she is pretty much fighting this war on his/her own.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 17, 2016 13:58:19 GMT
Cerberus might work with them under assumed names but direct link I doubt it.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 17, 2016 16:54:17 GMT
ExoGeni has no redeeming qualities? That's a bit harsh. Exogeni has done a lot of unethical experiments that Shepard has found, but there are other, less evil Exogeni projects. For example, terraforming Trebin by introducing more water into the atmosphere. Anyway, on topic, I think Cerberus must have a pretty strong connection, as they must have got the Thorian Creepers from somewhere. If you keep ME1's lore alone, Cerberus are an Alliance cell, and Exogeni work quite close with the Alliance according to Udina. Cerberus is stated to be an Alliance black ops organization that dropped out of sight "a few months ago" (paraphrase). By the time of ME1, Cerberus was no longer part of the Alliance.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 16:57:54 GMT
ExoGeni has no redeeming qualities? That's a bit harsh. Exogeni has done a lot of unethical experiments that Shepard has found, but there are other, less evil Exogeni projects. For example, terraforming Trebin by introducing more water into the atmosphere. Anyway, on topic, I think Cerberus must have a pretty strong connection, as they must have got the Thorian Creepers from somewhere. If you keep ME1's lore alone, Cerberus are an Alliance cell, and Exogeni work quite close with the Alliance according to Udina. Cerberus is stated to be an Alliance black ops organization that dropped out of sight "a few months ago" (paraphrase). By the time of ME1, Cerberus was no longer part of the Alliance. No long part of the Alliance - true. However, EDI's statements in ME2 indicate that they still get financial support from some whigs in the Alliance.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 17, 2016 17:10:16 GMT
Cerberus is stated to be an Alliance black ops organization that dropped out of sight "a few months ago" (paraphrase). By the time of ME1, Cerberus was no longer part of the Alliance. No long part of the Alliance - true. However, EDI's statements in ME2 indicate that they still get financial support from some whigs in the Alliance. Sure, but it seemed pretty clear that was private backing versus outright government backing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 18:22:47 GMT
No long part of the Alliance - true. However, EDI's statements in ME2 indicate that they still get financial support from some whigs in the Alliance. Sure, but it seemed pretty clear that was private backing versus outright government backing. Absolutely agree... but it's not hard to head canon a larger conspiracy if you want since it reveals that there is a portion of the Alliance brass that is sympathetic to Cerberus ideals. As I said, it's a story line that really wasn't developed beyond those few little hints in ME2... so players can ignore it completely or take it to whatever depths they want.
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Post by straykat on Sept 17, 2016 23:50:52 GMT
ExoGeni has no redeeming qualities? That's a bit harsh. Exogeni has done a lot of unethical experiments that Shepard has found, but there are other, less evil Exogeni projects. For example, terraforming Trebin by introducing more water into the atmosphere. Yeah, I imagine a lot there are just for helping colony efforts (like the Baynams). And even jerks like Jeong only care about money.. which is slightly more innocent than just straight up mad scientist. lol. Although those can be more closely related.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Sept 18, 2016 4:46:59 GMT
ExoGeni does good work.
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Sept 21, 2016 20:05:49 GMT
I always thought it was weird how ExoGeni disappeared from the games. The first one let you dismantle some of their projects, but the company at large remained untouchable.
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Post by Natashina on Sept 29, 2016 14:11:42 GMT
Cerberus agents were found in ME1 with both thorian creepers and rachni. In one case, both on the same planet where you find Admiral Kahoku's body. ExoGeni was studying the effects of organic-based mindcontrol. I think that would have been an interest of TIM's even before ME2. If ExoGeni was a Cerberus front, it would explain how their scientists got ahold of thorian creepers.
Not only do I think that ExoGeni is one of Cerberus' legitmate fronts, I think the same of Binary Helix. Helix has even got the colors going on the Peak 15 tram and on the image that stray posted. White tram, black trim, yellow number. Explains how Cerberus was able to track down or recreate the Rachni queen.
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Post by nonstop on Sept 30, 2016 8:49:51 GMT
I always thought it was weird how ExoGeni disappeared from the games. The first one let you dismantle some of their projects, but the company at large remained untouchable. I never really thought about it until now, but you're right. I actually think it might have been interesting to have ExoGeni and Binary Helix in the later games. I really enjoyed Noveria and the corporations storylines and it would have made a nice mission in one of the later games if you were investigating Cerberus activities if indeed ExoGeni was a front. But I suppose there's only so much they can add into the sequels, it's natural some story threads would be dropped along the way.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 30, 2016 13:23:41 GMT
Cerberus agents were found in ME1 with both thorian creepers and rachni. In one case, both on the same planet where you find Admiral Kahoku's body. ExoGeni was studying the effects of organic-based mindcontrol. I think that would have been an interest of TIM's even before ME2. If ExoGeni was a Cerberus front, it would explain how their scientists got ahold of thorian creepers. Not only do I think that ExoGeni is one of Cerberus' legitmate fronts, I think the same of Binary Helix. Helix has even got the colors going on the Peak 15 tram and on the image that stray posted. White tram, black trim, yellow number. Explains how Cerberus was able to track down or recreate the Rachni queen. I think pretty much the same thing. The kicker, though, is that indoctrinated Saren was a major player in Binary Helix. As was indoctrinated Matriarch Benezia. To me, that suggests that TIM may have been at least partially indoctrinated as early as 2183.
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Post by Natashina on Sept 30, 2016 17:22:56 GMT
Cerberus agents were found in ME1 with both thorian creepers and rachni. In one case, both on the same planet where you find Admiral Kahoku's body. ExoGeni was studying the effects of organic-based mindcontrol. I think that would have been an interest of TIM's even before ME2. If ExoGeni was a Cerberus front, it would explain how their scientists got ahold of thorian creepers. Not only do I think that ExoGeni is one of Cerberus' legitmate fronts, I think the same of Binary Helix. Helix has even got the colors going on the Peak 15 tram and on the image that stray posted. White tram, black trim, yellow number. Explains how Cerberus was able to track down or recreate the Rachni queen. I think pretty much the same thing. The kicker, though, is that indoctrinated Saren was a major player in Binary Helix. As was indoctrinated Matriarch Benezia. To me, that suggests that TIM may have been at least partially indoctrinated as early as 2183. Here's where we differ. To me, it doesn't suggest indoctrination one way or the other. TIM has probably been interested in mind control and brainwashing long before the events of ME1. It only tells me that he possibly invested in those two corporations. Also, they never said that Saren was a "major" player. Only that he's an investor in that project, and had a right to send Benezia to check on progress. He's considered special not due to corporate power, but rather due to Spectre status. IMHO, TIM has been interested in advancing the human race by using any means neccessary. I don't think the indoctrination didn't even begin until 2185. I think that, prior to ME2, he was your standard megalomaniac that was utterly ruthless and seeking out amoral ways to reach his goal.
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Oct 1, 2016 3:39:02 GMT
I always thought it was weird how ExoGeni disappeared from the games. The first one let you dismantle some of their projects, but the company at large remained untouchable. I never really thought about it until now, but you're right. I actually think it might have been interesting to have ExoGeni and Binary Helix in the later games. I really enjoyed Noveria and the corporations storylines and it would have made a nice mission in one of the later games if you were investigating Cerberus activities if indeed ExoGeni was a front. But I suppose there's only so much they can add into the sequels, it's natural some story threads would be dropped along the way. The funny part is, Mass Effect 2 would have been the perfect chance to tie up the loose ends with ExoGeni and Binary Helix. Just imagine doing quest chains involving each company hiring the Blue Suns or Eclipse mercenaries, and Shepard takes their operations down one by one for either Cerberus or the Alliance.
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Post by melbella on Oct 1, 2016 19:59:35 GMT
I think pretty much the same thing. The kicker, though, is that indoctrinated Saren was a major player in Binary Helix. As was indoctrinated Matriarch Benezia. To me, that suggests that TIM may have been at least partially indoctrinated as early as 2183. Here's where we differ. To me, it doesn't suggest indoctrination one way or the other. TIM has probably been interested in mind control and brainwashing long before the events of ME1. It only tells me that he possibly invested in those two corporations. Also, they never said that Saren was a "major" player. Only that he's an investor in that project, and had a right to send Benezia to check on progress. He's considered special not due to corporate power, but rather due to Spectre status. IMHO, TIM has been interested in advancing the human race by using any means neccessary. I don't think the indoctrination didn't even begin until 2185. I think that, prior to ME2, he was your standard megalomaniac that was utterly ruthless and seeking out amoral ways to reach his goal.
Anoleis says straight up that Saren is a "major shareholder" in Binary Helix. I'm convinced this allowed to him to divert research/assets to the krogan genophage cure he was working on at Virmire. Odd that he didn't want to use Noveria for that aspect of his plan. It may have been be too much for the investors there to be ok with so he didn't want to risk it.
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Post by Natashina on Oct 2, 2016 2:50:27 GMT
True that. However, it doesn't change how I feel regarding TIM being possibly indoctrinated that early on. He's been shown to use aliens to his own gain before. My guess is that TIM was already involved with at least one corporation (probably several,) and when Saren showed interested in the company, TIM took advantage of it.
I do think that the cloning was done on the downlow. TIM has a lot of contacts and resources, but that doesn't mean he knew everything that happened. I'm also guessing that Saren showed interest in the rachni because he was interested in studying how a hive mind can work. That and probably Sovvy put it into his head that, if they were rendered mindless, rachni would make an excellent weapon for terror. Fear can make willpower break down that much faster, which means that the subject would become easier to control.
The real question I've always wondered about was how long Saren had been indoctrinated prior to Eden Prime.
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Post by melbella on Oct 2, 2016 4:15:11 GMT
The real question I've always wondered about was how long Saren had been indoctrinated prior to Eden Prime.
I think it started at the very end of Revelation, when he got control of whatever it was the scientist guy was working on. It's been a while since I read it so I don't remember all the details, but whatever it was allowed him to find Sovereign.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2016 17:04:57 GMT
I'm going to add some speculation here about the nature of a link between Cerberus and the Alliance. EDI tells us in ME2 that Cerberus contributors include whigs in the Alliance military complex. I'm just doing the Corporal Toombs mission on Ontarom, where Toombs reveals that Cerberus used him as a "thresher maw" test subject. When Hackett informs Shepard... he describes the "former Alliance scientists" who are being killed only as having worked on "a classified project on Akuze." It would be more natural for Hackett to use this sort of phrasing if he were describing a classified project within the Alliance... not a rogue project being run by a disavowed black ops organization. Just food for thought. Did the Alliance order/sponsor testing like this on their own troops?
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 4, 2016 18:24:17 GMT
Interesting idea. Not impossible, but I don't think Cerberus had officially split from the Alliance (it seemed to be a recent thing in ME1) when the tests happened. But, as one of those door guards said regarding black ops, "if you have to deny the action it's a crappy action" (or something to that effect). You might be right. Akuze was long enough ago that Cerberus was probably still part of the Alliance.
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Post by Natashina on Oct 5, 2016 3:19:25 GMT
I think you guys are going to like this. I'm on planet Joab in ME2, doing a sidequest where you need to investigate a dig site that's been overrun by the Blue Suns. Cerberus has asked Shep to take care of it to protect their personal interests.
I came into the first room and found this on a computer:
What kind of dig site was it? Prothean. A video log is at the end of the area and Shep has another vision of the Reapers. More proof that Cerberus and ExoGeni were in bed together to one extent or the other, at least to me. I mean, c'mon! Interest in both organic-based mind control and in the Protheans? Way too big of a coincidence.
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