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Post by rolenka on Jul 9, 2017 5:26:42 GMT
It is the only explanation I can think of. They send a message as the invasion begins, then nothing after that, centuries later.
It would allow for all ME3 endings I suppose. If they were to say anything, it would invalidate the refusal ending.
I just would have expected it to be housed somewhere secure in the Citadel. The Citadel took a beating from Cerberus and the Reapers, but we are talking about some equipment in one room somewhere.
Maybe it was destroyed intentionally to make sure the Reapers would not learn of the escape to Andromeda and follow?
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Post by KrrKs on Jul 9, 2017 15:12:48 GMT
My impression was that the Initiative never had QTEs.
The invasion coms were standard (ftl) radio, transmitted over the usual com. buoys.
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Post by rolenka on Jul 9, 2017 19:52:15 GMT
Seems unlikely they were dropping thousands of bouys through dark space the whole trip. A QTE device would probably be cheaper, not to mention more reliable.
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Post by Serza on Jul 9, 2017 21:36:02 GMT
Most likely. I mean, how easy would it be for that stuff to get fucked somehow?
That, or QECs do have a limitation...
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 9, 2017 23:55:47 GMT
It did seem odd to me that the Initiative didn't have a QEC with the Milky Way, along with backups.
But, its now 600 years in the future. Technology has advanced in the Milky Way, and it would be pretty interesting if we found out other Milky Way explorers showed up in other parts of Andromeda as explorers earlier that we did.
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Post by bshep on Jul 10, 2017 1:12:43 GMT
It is the only explanation I can think of. They send a message as the invasion begins, then nothing after that, centuries later. It would allow for all ME3 endings I suppose. If they were to say anything, it would invalidate the refusal ending. I just would have expected it to be housed somewhere secure in the Citadel. The Citadel took a beating from Cerberus and the Reapers, but we are talking about some equipment in one room somewhere. Maybe it was destroyed intentionally to make sure the Reapers would not learn of the escape to Andromeda and follow? Likely yes. QEC would have allowed instant information share between the colonists in Andromeda and the Milky Way. The fact they couldn't talk after arriving mean either the Reapers destroyed the QEC pairs on the Milky Way or someone sabotaged the ones at the Nexus, maybe Benefactor since his/her people knew about the Reapers. ps: refusal ending is just a fancy game over. My impression was that the Initiative never had QTEs. The invasion coms were standard (ftl) radio, transmitted over the usual com. buoys. They have. That is how SAM comunicates in real time with the pathfinder and team while his "brain" stays on the Hyperion. That is even the reason why you can't talk to SAM during the begining on Habitat 7, the quantum entanglement comunicator inside Ryder's shuttle got damaged in the crash. |
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Post by rolenka on Jul 10, 2017 3:10:08 GMT
It did seem odd to me that the Initiative didn't have a QEC with the Milky Way, along with backups. But, its now 600 years in the future. Technology has advanced in the Milky Way, and would be pretty interesting if we found out other Milky Way explorers showed up in other parts of Andromeda as explorers earlier that we did. That would be... pretty awesome and hilarious. Imagine if they had used some advanced form of FTL travel a few hundred years after the Initiative left, arrived first, built a mass effect relay linked to one in the Milky Way, and the Initiative arrived to find the cluster already settled. |
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 10, 2017 9:00:31 GMT
Didn't Alec said in none of his final logs that none of the QEC set for communicating with Milky Way work? Implying that end points of QEC in Milky Way were destroyed by Reaper War.
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Post by bshep on Jul 10, 2017 16:58:04 GMT
Didn't Alec said in none of his final logs that none of the QEC set for communicating with Milky Way work? Implying that end points of QEC in Milky Way were destroyed by Reaper War. He did receive early reports when they were already on travel about both the Alliance and the Hierarchy getting attacked by the Reapers so the QEC were working at least for a short time. The Reapers destroying everything is likely considering they took all home planets (except Surkesh i think), but i still wonder if the Benefactor didn't have people inside the Nexus and each Ark sabotaging those comunicators to not leave anything to chance. |
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Post by Croatsky on Jul 10, 2017 17:15:10 GMT
Didn't Alec said in none of his final logs that none of the QEC set for communicating with Milky Way work? Implying that end points of QEC in Milky Way were destroyed by Reaper War. He did receive early reports when they were already on travel about both the Alliance and the Hierarchy getting attacked by the Reapers so the QEC were working at least for a short time. The Reapers destroying everything is likely considering they took all home planets (except Surkesh i think), but i still wonder if the Benefactor didn't have people inside the Nexus and each Ark sabotaging those comunicators to not leave anything to chance. I doubt QEC's were sabotage on Nexus and Arks, otherwise sabotage would have been noticed by Alec. As well from what we know, The Benefactor only had influence on Nexus in Andromeda. Although he/she/it probably has more agents on every Ark, so far they only acted on Nexus to murder Jien Garson( and maybe some other leaders in AI) and then disappeared. So I think it is actually Reapers doing, as one of first things they did in invasion of Earth is to destroy every methods of communications, even if they were old underwater cables used for sending telegraphs. Although Sur'Kesh is not invaded by Reapers, unless you do Refuse ending, so that's curious. Either QEC's were not put on homeworlds but on other places and/or someone sabotaged them from Milky Way to keep AI safe from Reapers knowledge where they went exactly. |
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Post by Psychedelic on Jul 10, 2017 17:49:52 GMT
The war with the reapers was about 600 years ago from when MEA takes place. Even if the QEC tech had been destroyed back then, there was plenty of time to rebuild. And it's not that they had been bombed back to the stone age in any of the ME3 endings. Surely they had other priorities directly after the war, but they didn't restore communications for over 600 years. Have they completely forgotten about the roughly 100.000 A.I. colonists in the meantime or what? Very strange, to say the least. That makes sabotage on the Andromeda end of QEC more likely, though I don't see who would benefit from that, except to cover a plothole.
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Post by rolenka on Jul 11, 2017 6:54:06 GMT
The war with the reapers was about 600 years ago from when MEA takes place. Even if the QEC tech had been destroyed back then, there was plenty of time to rebuild. And it's not that they had been bombed back to the stone age in any of the ME3 endings. Surely they had other priorities directly after the war, but they didn't restore communications for over 600 years. Have they completely forgotten about the roughly 100.000 A.I. colonists in the meantime or what? Very strange, to say the least. That makes sabotage on the Andromeda end of QEC more likely, though I don't see who would benefit from that, except to cover a plothole. QEC only works with a paired quantum entangled particle. The pairs have to be made together. Like an infinitely long tuning fork, what you bang on one end is heard on the other. But if you saw half of it off, well... build all the tuning forks you want, the remaining half won't share their vibrations. |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 11, 2017 11:37:29 GMT
Interesting that Liara sends a message to Alec, but not the asari ship or even the Nexus. She might have. Don't know. What would be interesting is either in a dlc or the next game, a new memory is revealed that Alec did get another message from the Milky Way. Its from Commander Shepard saying the reapers have been destroyed. Shepard out.  |
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Post by Psychedelic on Jul 11, 2017 13:57:45 GMT
The war with the reapers was about 600 years ago from when MEA takes place. Even if the QEC tech had been destroyed back then, there was plenty of time to rebuild. And it's not that they had been bombed back to the stone age in any of the ME3 endings. Surely they had other priorities directly after the war, but they didn't restore communications for over 600 years. Have they completely forgotten about the roughly 100.000 A.I. colonists in the meantime or what? Very strange, to say the least. That makes sabotage on the Andromeda end of QEC more likely, though I don't see who would benefit from that, except to cover a plothole. QEC only works with a paired quantum entangled particle. The pairs have to be made together. Like an infinitely long tuning fork, what you bang on one end is heard on the other. But if you saw half of it off, well... build all the tuning forks you want, the remaining half won't share their vibrations. Okay, I didn't know it had to be a specific device to communicate with the other end, physics isn't exactly my strong suit.  |
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Post by Iakus on Jul 11, 2017 15:22:35 GMT
Didn't Alec said in none of his final logs that none of the QEC set for communicating with Milky Way work? Implying that end points of QEC in Milky Way were destroyed by Reaper War. Given how many mini QEC devices SAM seems to have access to, you'd think there's be thousands of them among the Arks and Nexus for reporting back to the Milky Way... Clearly they've gotten around the "QEC is expensive AF".  |
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Post by sil on Jul 11, 2017 16:32:39 GMT
There must have been QEC's, the Nexus News mentions that attempts to contact the closest family of a dead worker in the Milky Way is currently unsuccessful.
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Post by rolenka on Jul 11, 2017 17:43:04 GMT
QEC only works with a paired quantum entangled particle. The pairs have to be made together. Like an infinitely long tuning fork, what you bang on one end is heard on the other. But if you saw half of it off, well... build all the tuning forks you want, the remaining half won't share their vibrations. Okay, I didn't know it had to be a specific device to communicate with the other end, physics isn't exactly my strong suit. Quantum physics is not really anybody's strong suit.  Except physicists. The theory has been around in those circles, but we ME fans only know how it works because it is explained in Mass Effect 2. |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 12, 2017 10:17:55 GMT
The war with the reapers was about 600 years ago from when MEA takes place. For you science nerds out there: The theory of relativity applies. 600 years for the colonists could easily be 1200 years for Earth. The farther they get away from Earth, the more time dilates. Our current satellites are programmed to account for relativity, but only because we know their relative location to Earth. So, that is relative to this thread because we're so far into the future that they should be able to figure out a way to communicate with another galaxy by now...or maybe even figure out a faster means of travel. Did you know, it's theorized that if one could travel at the speed of light they could actually travel back in time? It's all relative. Sadly, the human body would not be able to survive the G force...and any vessel that tried would likely be ripped to shreds by space dust. |
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Post by Psychedelic on Jul 12, 2017 14:57:03 GMT
The war with the reapers was about 600 years ago from when MEA takes place. For you science nerds out there: The theory of relativity applies. 600 years for the colonists could easily be 1200 years for Earth. The farther they get away from Earth, the more time dilates. Our current satellites are programmed to account for relativity, but only because we know their relative location to Earth. So, that is relative to this thread because we're so far into the future that they should be able to figure out a way to communicate with another galaxy by now...or maybe even figure out a faster means of travel. Did you know, it's theorized that if one could travel at the speed of light they could actually travel back in time? It's all relative. Sadly, the human body would not be able to survive the G force...and any vessel that tried would likely be ripped to shreds by space dust. As I said before, I'm not really good at physics and I probably shouldn't post about Einstein's theory of relativity before I had my cup of tea (or ever), but iirc it is assumed nothing can travel faster than light. In ME they are obviously able to do exactly that, so I have no idea how that would affect space/time if you try to apply RL physics. It's probably best not to think too hard about things like that, and if ME ever needs an explanation for the impossible, like FTL, biotics, crop tops on freezing planets, the answer is always eezo.  |
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Post by geralt on Jul 12, 2017 15:50:58 GMT
It did seem odd to me that the Initiative didn't have a QEC with the Milky Way, along with backups. But, its now 600 years in the future. Technology has advanced in the Milky Way, and it would be pretty interesting if we found out other Milky Way explorers showed up in other parts of Andromeda as explorers earlier that we did.I would say based on how long the Council Races have been in space (especially the Asari), would serve as evidence the technology doesn't seem to progress very quickly or significantly after the initial discovery. Even in the First Contact War the Alliance were holding their own against the Turians, despite barely having experience of the new tech. Though I grant both the sudden and number of new tech coming in for the Andromeda initiative kind of throws a spanner in that notion now. I'd have like to have seen more explanation in-game for that. |
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Post by rolenka on Jul 14, 2017 5:37:27 GMT
The war with the reapers was about 600 years ago from when MEA takes place. For you science nerds out there: The theory of relativity applies. 600 years for the colonists could easily be 1200 years for Earth. The farther they get away from Earth, the more time dilates. Our current satellites are programmed to account for relativity, but only because we know their relative location to Earth. So, that is relative to this thread because we're so far into the future that they should be able to figure out a way to communicate with another galaxy by now...or maybe even figure out a faster means of travel. Did you know, it's theorized that if one could travel at the speed of light they could actually travel back in time? It's all relative. Sadly, the human body would not be able to survive the G force...and any vessel that tried would likely be ripped to shreds by space dust. FTL drives in Mass Effect are not affected by time dilation. And I once did the math, or tried to. But what I read says you can't actually calculate time dilation at speeds faster than light because dilation approaches infinity the closer you get to the speed of light, and there is nothing after infinity. FYI they would need to go more than 4,000 times the speed of light to reach Andromeda in 600 years. So thank goodness for space magic. I guess it makes sense you would need to change spacetime in order to break its rules. As for going splat on the rear bulkhead, sci-fi frequently makes use of "inertial dampeners." Yet for some reason the bridge shakes when the ship is hit by phasers on Star Trek. |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 14, 2017 13:19:03 GMT
For you science nerds out there: The theory of relativity applies. 600 years for the colonists could easily be 1200 years for Earth. The farther they get away from Earth, the more time dilates. Our current satellites are programmed to account for relativity, but only because we know their relative location to Earth. So, that is relative to this thread because we're so far into the future that they should be able to figure out a way to communicate with another galaxy by now...or maybe even figure out a faster means of travel. Did you know, it's theorized that if one could travel at the speed of light they could actually travel back in time? It's all relative. Sadly, the human body would not be able to survive the G force...and any vessel that tried would likely be ripped to shreds by space dust. FTL drives in Mass Effect are not affected by time dilation. And I once did the math, or tried to. But what I read says you can't actually calculate time dilation at speeds faster than light because dilation approaches infinity the closer you get to the speed of light, and there is nothing after infinity. FYI they would need to go more than 4,000 times the speed of light to reach Andromeda in 600 years. So thank goodness for space magic. I guess it makes sense you would need to change spacetime in order to break its rules. As for going splat on the rear bulkhead, sci-fi frequently makes use of "inertial dampeners." Yet for some reason the bridge shakes when the ship is hit by phasers on Star Trek. It's funny though, from what I understand, Star Trek actually got FTL travel right (or within reason). Warping space, creating a wormhole and traveling instantaneously to another point in the universe is likely the only way humans will ever make it outside of our own solar system. |
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Post by sil on Jul 14, 2017 15:28:50 GMT
FTL drives in Mass Effect are not affected by time dilation. And I once did the math, or tried to. But what I read says you can't actually calculate time dilation at speeds faster than light because dilation approaches infinity the closer you get to the speed of light, and there is nothing after infinity. FYI they would need to go more than 4,000 times the speed of light to reach Andromeda in 600 years. So thank goodness for space magic. I guess it makes sense you would need to change spacetime in order to break its rules. As for going splat on the rear bulkhead, sci-fi frequently makes use of "inertial dampeners." Yet for some reason the bridge shakes when the ship is hit by phasers on Star Trek. It's funny though, from what I understand, Star Trek actually got FTL travel right (or within reason). Warping space, creating a wormhole and traveling instantaneously to another point in the universe is likely the only way humans will ever make it outside of our own solar system. Just don't take the warp drive too far, or you'll devolve into some weird creature and mate with your captain. Just a warning to you. |
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Post by rolenka on Jul 14, 2017 18:04:11 GMT
It's funny though, from what I understand, Star Trek actually got FTL travel right (or within reason). Warping space, creating a wormhole and traveling instantaneously to another point in the universe is likely the only way humans will ever make it outside of our own solar system. Yeah, warp drive is a popular theory and was when Star Trek was created. To understand FTL in Mass Effect, some things must be understood about physics. As velocity increases, an object's inertia increases. That means the faster something is moving, the more energy it takes to make it go even faster, approaching infinite energy the closer it gets to the speed of light. The amount of this inertia is called relativistic mass. Mass effect fields reduce the relativistic mass of everything in the field, including light, effectively raising the "speed limit" in that pocket of the universe. |
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 14, 2017 18:59:49 GMT
It's funny though, from what I understand, Star Trek actually got FTL travel right (or within reason). Warping space, creating a wormhole and traveling instantaneously to another point in the universe is likely the only way humans will ever make it outside of our own solar system. Yeah, warp drive is a popular theory and was when Star Trek was created. To understand FTL in Mass Effect, some things must be understood about physics. As velocity increases, an object's inertia increases. That means the faster something is moving, the more energy it takes to make it go even faster, approaching infinite energy the closer it gets to the speed of light. The amount of this inertia is called relativistic mass. Mass effect fields reduce the relativistic mass of everything in the field, including light, effectively raising the "speed limit" in that pocket of the universe. Right, but back into the relativity equation, reducing mass is only one part of it. Even if we managed to "teleport" a human to another galaxy, time on Earth would pass faster than it does for the person that's been transported. The farther away they are, the more time "dilates". Which is back to the original point I had made. Because of relativity, the first scene of ME:1, when they hit the first relay to get to the citadel, by the time they got to where they were going, the time would actually be BEFORE they hit the relay. Further, objects in space with a positive mass attract objects to them (gravity). Since, as you said, the Mass Effect field reduces an object's mass to zero, we now have an object traveling much faster than the speed of light, entering a system with a 0 mass. The resulting "push" (massless objects or objects with negative mass repel in space) would likely be catastrophic for any planets nearby. |
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Except physicists. The theory has been around in those circles, but we ME fans only know how it works because it is explained in Mass Effect 2.
